Shroom for the Stars: Captain Toad for Smash 4! CHAPTER 11: IT'S A MII; TOAD!

[fogbadge]

We might also want to talk about his competition. There's Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Blue Toad among others.

well the way i see it paper mario isnt actually a real contender and all toads have the same chances

 

[YoshiandToad]

I never did know whether people counted Paper Mario as a 'Mario' character or as his own spinoff.

With Waluigi as an assist AND confirmed as Wario rep(despite not being in that series, but whatever) it's really only Bowser Jr. as a major rival for the Toads if Papes is considered a spinoff character.

 

[Ben Holt]

Since Pokemon will most likely get at least 6 reps (maybe even 7), a new Mario character is basically a shoe-in since Mario's never been outnumbered slot-wise.

 

[Zzuxon]

Since Pokemon will most likely get at least 6 reps (maybe even 7), a new Mario character is basically a shoe-in since Mario's never been outnumbered slot-wise.

I wouldn't say a shoe-in. We are closing in on the expected number of newcomers rapidly at this point.

 

[jigglover]

Since Pokemon will most likely get at least 6 reps (maybe even 7), a new Mario character is basically a shoe-in since Mario's never been outnumbered slot-wise.

But in brawl Pokémon had 6 characters...

And Mario had 4.

 

[Protom]

Add me to the supporter list!
While at this point I kind of doubt him, I would still love him to be in smash!

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'm not willing to call 6 Mario characters shoe-ins but at the same time with the Gematsu Leak hinting at having character DLC I can't help but feel one of them might be a Mario character. Not saying it'll be Captain Toad mind, but we can dream.

Now; updated the supporters list and added Captain Toad's two big rivals in Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario. I'll add regular Toad later for sure, but arguable rival status on him since they could even be one and the same character.

Will also include some less than likely rivals for that 6th spot in Geno and Daisy later.

 

[Ben Holt]

But in brawl Pokémon had 6 characters...

And Mario had 4.

Since Pokemon will most likely get at least 6 reps (maybe even 7), a new Mario character is basically a shoe-in since Mario's never been outnumbered SLOT-WISE.

 

[jigglover]

^ Then your point is moot, @ Ben Holt , as Sakurai considers Pokémon to have had 6 slots and Mario 4. "Slots in the roster" are pretty much fan theories, and while Sakurai appears to be getting rid of transformations, it doesn't mean that he now thinks in previous games Pokémon only had 4 representatives.

Basically, Sakurai gets the final say on who gets in and the slots etc., and he disagrees with your point, therefore, a Mario character is not a shoe-in, as we would have had 6 in Brawl.

 

[LipFlare]

Objection!

Honestly "Captain" Toad need to back to "Forester" Toad and challenges Wario into a serious Puzzle-Game battle! (Wario's Wood's anyone?) A new entry into THAT series is somewhat long overdue!

Red Toad I consider as THE Toad even if there are more of them... Why? Because he is red! And he have a place in a Peach's dresspocket which Toad could claim that privilege?! You see... :D

 

[jigglover]

Objection!

Honestly "Captain" Toad need to back to "Forester" Toad and challenges Wario into a serious Puzzle-Game battle! (Wario's Wood's anyone?) A new entry into THAT series is somewhat long overdue!

Red Toad I consider as THE Toad even if there are more of them... Why? Because he is red! And he have a place in a Peach's dresspocket which Toad could claim that privilege?! You see... :D

Actually, THE Toad and Captain Toad are one and the same. You get the best of both worlds with this guy, as he can use things like Turnips from SMB2 rather than his new game, and could have some references to Wario's Woods I'm sure.

 

[Ben Holt]

Toad is a species like Yoshi. The Yoshi's Island Yoshi and the one in Super Mario World are different beings of the same species (One was born before Mario was a baby; the other was born during Mario's adulthood.).
Toad is much the same, though more ambiguous due to him not hatching from an egg.

 

[jigglover]

Toad is a species like Yoshi. The Yoshi's Island Yoshi and the one in Super Mario World are different beings of the same species (One was born before Mario was a baby; the other was born during Mario's adulthood.).
Toad is much the same, though more ambiguous due to him not hatching from an egg.

However, THE Toad is Captain Toad. THE Toad was there in Super Mario Galaxy protecting Peach when he took to space as well, as captain of the Toad Brigade. There is also a source earlier in the thread which confirms this iirc.

 

[YoshiandToad]

The question of whether Captain Toad is the famous Toad that stars in Mario Kart and the like is brought up a lot.

Whilst there's no official statement on this, there is some hints if you look hard enough:

Here we have a group of multi coloured Toads, notably including 'THE' Toad:

Now the next screen of the Toads are the same coloured individuals blasting off into space;

As you see they have very similar coloured spots as the previous group although 'The' Toad is now Captain Toad.

To many it seems this is a hint that Captain=The Toad, and the only thing that casts doubt is a lack of official word on the matter...and that Blue Toad has glasses here and not in the original image.

So that means it's not the same Blue Toad ergo it's not the Blue Toad that 'The Toad' hangs out with!

But wait:

Skip to 1.37 to see Captain Toad and his brigade waving to the four protagonists in the credits. Notably the glasses wearing Blue Toad isn't there. Or anywhere in the game. But again the colours of the Toads match those of the Brigade.

We also have this screenshot of the original look of the 3D World mini game. Note the icon at the top is considerably different from the final version. Captain Toad appears in this to be 'The Toad'. Red spots and blue vest.

Now obviously this was a placeholder, but that icon still needed to be made from scratch in the first place and no other Red spotted blue vested Toads appear in 3D World...it's also not a simple recolour of the playable Blue Toad's icon so at some point Nintendo considered Captain Toad the same Toad as 'The Toad'.

----------------

BUT in that case; surely Captain Toad can't be playable since if they're one and the same; he's doomed to be her dang B move forever and ever?

Mario Galaxy further complexes things when TWO 'The Toads' appear to be attempting rather badly to protect Peach.

So feasibly Captain can co-exist with that Red spotted, Blue vested meat shield without causing too much fuss.

 

[Pacack]

Mario Galaxy further complexes things when TWO 'The Toads' appear to be attempting rather badly to protect Peach.

So feasibly Captain can co-exist with that Red spotted, Blue vested meat shield without causing too much fuss.

Not just Galaxy does that;

Super Mario RPG

Paper Mario

Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga

Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time

Super Princess Peach

New Super Mario Bros. U

Paper Mario: Sticker Star

Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story


And there's probably more I'm not remembering.

 

[L2 Sentinel]

I miss the old days when Toad was the name of a single character, and the species was called the Mushroom People. THE Toad wasn't a Toad named Toad. He was Toad, a mushroom person. It made him a helluva lot easier to identify.

In Mario RPG, while there were a lot of mushroom people that looked like him, Toad was the only mushroom person actually referred to as Toad. He played his own role, like bringing supplies to Mario and crew on their final assault of Bowser's Castle.

And in Super Princess Peach, they captured Toad along with Mario and Luigi, because he's apparently the only mushroom person Bowser considered a threat.

I don't think they started calling the mushroom people Toads until the Wii launched. I could be wrong, though. The first time I noticed it was when i was playing Mario Striker's Charged.

 

[fogbadge]

oh no not the "THE" toad debate again

 

[YoshiandToad]

oh no not the "THE" toad debate again

I'm afraid it was inevitable fogbadge. When discussing Toad be it Blue, Classic or Captain this is going to come up. May as well get it out the way now.

I'll add it to the OP at some point too so we can avoid more of these in future.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm definitely a supporter

I want Toad in, I do not care which.
I think it would be great if we saw some serious character development in Captain Toad, where we saw his backstory of going from a regular Toad, all the way up to being the captain (I doubt it would reference other games, but it could hint at them for sure, for NIntendo to reveal an official timeline of thirty years from now).

He would be a very unique character if they stuck to the fact that he cannot jump but is insanely strong and a navigator.
I would want him to utilize some other non-captain moves, though, as Mario Galaxy era already has Rosalina, and while it may be a whole new era forever and Captain shows it, its a bit strange to me to have four mario characters from original games (updated along the way), and then two from the most recent (almost most recent).

He, like Wario, would need his classic costume switch.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm afraid it was inevitable fogbadge. When discussing Toad be it Blue, Classic or Captain this is going to come up. May as well get it out the way now.

I'll add it to the OP at some point too so we can avoid more of these in future.

toadsworth and toadette are lucky then

 

[Tree Gelbman]

toadsworth and toadette are lucky then

Speaking of good old Toadsworth when was the last time he put in an appearance?

 

[Arcadenik]

Speaking of good old Toadsworth when was the last time he put in an appearance?

I believe his last appearance was in Mario & Luigi: Dream Team.

 

[Bedoop]

Add me to that supporters list.
"Dooty doot!" ~Toad, DDR:Mario Mix

 

[Arcadenik]

So I made a puzzle based on Wario's Woods in Pushmo World...

 

[Geno Mallow]

He seems like a good choice to me. Plus it'd be cross promotion for Nintendo which makes good business sense

 

[Albo]

Shoot, I didn't watch this thread because I thought it died after months of no posts! Then all THIS happens! If it's not too late, please add me to that supporters list as well. I want my Toad, Captain or not, in Smash!

Okay, hold up. I went on Ranker.com (of course posted my approval for Toad) and saw that PAPER MARIO and WALUIGI are both in front of TOAD. Excuse me? Waluigi in front of Toad?! What kind of WORLD is this??

Okay. Bowser Jr. is in front of him, too. I have lost all faith in humanity.

 

[jigglover]

Shoot, I didn't watch this thread because I thought it died after months of no posts! Then all THIS happens! If it's not too late, please add me to that supporters list as well. I want my Toad, Captain or not, in Smash!

Okay, hold up. I went on Ranker.com (of course posted my approval for Toad) and see that PAPER MARIO and WALUIGI are both in front of TOAD. Excuse me? Waluigi in front of Toad?! What kind of WORLD is this??

Waluigi is deconfirmed, and people consider Toad deconfirmed as well.

I support Paper Mario over Toad, because realistically Paper Mario is much more unique and represents an almost entirely new series than the regular Mario agenda. I support Captain Toad over both, however, as long as he can't jump and instead uses platforms (or incredibly pathetic jumps, but also being heavy) because it would be really fun to play as lol.

 

[Albo]

Waluigi is deconfirmed, and people consider Toad deconfirmed as well.

I support Paper Mario over Toad, because realistically Paper Mario is much more unique and represents an almost entirely new series than the regular Mario agenda. I support Captain Toad over both, however, as long as he can't jump and instead uses platforms (or incredibly pathetic jumps, but also being heavy) because it would be really fun to play as lol.

The reason I don't support Paper Mario is because, as much as I love the Paper games, Paper and Mario are essentially the same Mario. It's like the Dr. Mario fiasco of Melee; I don't care HOW many pills Dr. has, he and Mario are the same guy. Paper Peach and Nurse Peach are still Peach, and Paper Toad and Patient Toad (I guess, I dunno lol) are Toad. This is why all the Metals bother me in Mario Kart 8; Metal Mario is just Mario with a power-up. Why not have Tanooki or Propeller while you're at it?

I never saw Waluigi's potential. He really has no point of existence besides being Luigi's anti and Wario's sidekick. Granted, Wario was basically just the anti-Mario but at least now he has some character.

Bowser Jr.? If there's one species that's not unique, it's the Bowsers. It's not like a Toad or Yoshi species, but come on. Baby Bowser? Bowser Jr.? Koopa Kid? These are all Bowsers with beady eyes. Oh, sorry, Jr.'s unique because he has a bandana and a paintbrush. My bad. (Sarcasm). Maybe I hate him just cause his brattiness annoyed me so much in Galaxy.

Now, if someone could bring me up to speed on why we're throwing our support at (Captain) Toad? I just came here and, uh...I don't exactly know why we're saying, "I support Captain Toad, add me," etc. I'm always late to things

 

[YoshiandToad]

Shoot, I didn't watch this thread because I thought it died after months of no posts! Then all THIS happens! If it's not too late, please add me to that supporters list as well. I want my Toad, Captain or not, in Smash!

Okay, hold up. I went on Ranker.com (of course posted my approval for Toad) and see that PAPER MARIO and WALUIGI are both in front of TOAD. Excuse me? Waluigi in front of Toad?! What kind of WORLD is this??

Okay. Bowser Jr. is in front of him, too. I have lost all faith in humanity.

One thing you have to remember when it comes to this; the majority of current supporters are those who grew up in the Gamecube era. During this time Toad was pretty much permanently sidelined; even being reduced to a secret character in Double Dash!! whilst Bowser Jr. was very much in the same position as Rosalina currently is; heavily promoted. Heck; Toad was still hosting Mario Party for the majority of the Gamecube era.

Likewise; Paper Mario was at it's peak during the Gamecube era with the frankly amazing; The Thousand Year Door, before it went somewhat odd, but still good in Super Paper Mario and then accidentally turned absolutely horrendous in Sticker Star.

Waluigi was also getting a hell of a lot more playable roles during this era than Toad was, because Nintendo were too busy using the shroom as referees in sports games.

Toad meanwhile has his fans from pre-64(such as myself and the older fans) and the current generation where Nintendo have apparently cottoned on finally that Toad actually has quite the fanbase. Seriously can't believe it took them until Super Mario 3D World to finally see people liked Toad and his species.

Talk about idiotic.

That said, with Captain Toad getting his own game, I get the feeling next Smash's popularity will be a lot different, particularly should the puzzle game turn out to be a hit.

--------------

Updated the OP with the new supporters.

 

[JaidynReiman]

As far as I'm concerned, Toad is disconfirmed. Captain Toad is still perfectly up for grabs, though. I wouldn't mind him but I doubt he'll be playable. (Maybe as DLC.)

EDIT:
That said, Captain Toad is one of the few Mario characters I support. Feel free to add me to the list! Not sure how he could work considering the fact that he can't jump in his game.

 

[Albo]

One thing you have to remember when it comes to this; the majority of current supporters are those who grew up in the Gamecube era. During this time Toad was pretty much permanently sidelined; even being reduced to a secret character in Double Dash!! whilst Bowser Jr. was very much in the same position as Rosalina currently is; heavily promoted. Heck; Toad was still hosting Mario Party for the majority of the Gamecube era.

Likewise; Paper Mario was at it's peak during the Gamecube era with the frankly amazing; The Thousand Year Door, before it went somewhat odd, but still good in Super Paper Mario and then accidentally turned absolutely horrendous in Sticker Star.

Waluigi was also getting a hell of a lot more playable roles during this era than Toad was, because Nintendo were too busy using the shroom as referees in sports games.

Toad meanwhile has his fans from pre-64(such as myself and the older fans) and the current generation where Nintendo have apparently cottoned on finally that Toad actually has quite the fanbase. Seriously can't believe it took them until Super Mario 3D World to finally see people liked Toad and his species.

Talk about idiotic.

That said, with Captain Toad getting his own game, I get the feeling next Smash's popularity will be a lot different, particularly should the puzzle game turn out to be a hit.

--------------

Updated the OP with the new supporters.

Sorry to be a jerk, but Toad actually reffed most of the Parties in the N64 era, with 1-3, whilst 4 was the only GameCube one (if I'm correct) he hosted. Starting with 5, he would be playable in every installment bar Advance, which is okay, because I wouldn't want him playable in that thing anyways.

I heard the Smash roster was decided way back in the first days of development or something...perhaps before Nintendo realized that the character they had been keeping a sidekick was actually one of the more popular in the franchise. This is what worries me most.

I also still don't get what's happening with all the support (not bad, but I'm lost).

Also, on a sidenote that's nearly irrelevant, I learned that Toadette...is a species. Unless three female (or male lololol) Toads decided to dress the same during the Galaxy storybook opening, Toadettes can come in as many varieties as Toad...just another piece of the unsolvable (somewhat) puzzle of the Toads' identities.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Sorry to be a jerk, but Toad actually reffed most of the Parties in the N64 era, with 1-3, whilst 4 was the only GameCube one (if I'm correct) he hosted. Starting with 5, he would be playable in every installment bar Advance, which is okay, because I wouldn't want him playable in that thing anyways.

Oh my yes. The N64 era was just as cruel to Toad if not crueler...but it was also relatively harsh to Luigi too who missed out on quite a few outings.

I heard the Smash roster was decided way back in the first days of development or something...perhaps before Nintendo realized that the character they had been keeping a sidekick was actually one of the more popular in the franchise. This is what worries me most.

I also still don't get what's happening with all the support (not bad, but I'm lost).

Also, on a sidenote that's nearly irrelevant, I learned that Toadette...is a species. Unless three female (or male lololol) Toads decided to dress the same during the Galaxy storybook opening, Toadettes can come in as many varieties as Toad...just another piece of the unsolvable (somewhat) puzzle of the Toads' identities.

I get the feeling it was before it turned out Toad was actually well liked. Seems Nintendo have started warming upto him recently.

On the subject of Toadette, that's something I hadn't considered or admittedly noticed before. Do we have screens?

------------

Updated the OP with Geno and Daisy in the rival section.

Added JaidynReiman to the supporters list too.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The Toad and Toadette species would be so much easier to understand if we just had THE Toad and THE Toadette and they were the only ones with a visibly different color palette.

But nope. And to further complicate things? There's also Toadsworth, Toadbert, and other various named Toads with their own attributes. It's kind of confusing to have a species that can generally be quite different and have their own individual names, but then the MAIN one is just Toad.

None of the other Mario species are quite as confusing.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Haaah... it's pretty weird at this point really.

I wish they'd just stick calling them "Mushroom People", with Toad being one of the 7 "Mushroom Retainers".
Captain Toad's more difficult bite to chew on, but as of late, I think I figured it out:

Yoshi&Toad showed already these things:

The question of whether Captain Toad is the famous Toad that stars in Mario Kart and the like is brought up a lot.

Whilst there's no official statement on this, there is some hints if you look hard enough:

Here we have a group of multi coloured Toads, notably including 'THE' Toad:

Now the next screen of the Toads are the same coloured individuals blasting off into space;

As you see they have very similar coloured spots as the previous group although 'The' Toad is now Captain Toad.

This is supported by artwork for Galaxy 1 showing the Toad labelled as Captain Toad:

Spoiler

Artwork for Galaxy 2 though show him change his vest to a red one:

Spoiler

This is further emphasized in 3D World's final level, Champion Road:

Spoiler

And then the credits:

The Red-vested Toad appears here at Champion Road in 3D World- which now proves that the playable Toad we have here is the Blue one.

I think I might just think that as of now, Toad took in a some kind of "Alter Ego" and decided to become Captain Toad around Super Mario Galaxy.

Spoiler

*CURSES FOR AN HOUR*

 

[Albo]

Here's your screenshot. Two Toadettes. Mindsplosion.

To make things even more confusing about Toadsworth, his young self looks different from the other normal Toads with the same red vest but a brownish cap. Does this imply that, though plainly colored Toads are the majority, are there any other specific Toads? Who knows how many Toadsworths there may be?

Toadsworth the Younger, M&L Partners in Time, I think.

A Toad from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door.

Just great.

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

You can definitely add me to that supporter list! His chances for the main game are slim, but he could definitely be added in DLC.

 

[Zzuxon]

*Looks at OP*
*Gasps*
I should be on the support list!
Please put me there Y&T.

 

[Arcadenik]

Here's your screenshot. Two Toadettes. Mindsplosion.

View attachment 17426

Oh, that's clearly Toadiko.

 

[fogbadge]

its amazing how much fans care about who "THE" toad is compared to nintendo

 

[GunGunW]

Definitely add me to the support list if I'm not on already.