Should Custom Mii's Be Seprated From Fighter Customs?

[Dooms]

If you're going to ban customs, you ban Mii Fighters as well. You don't limit them to 1111 only. It should be up to the TO's to allow Mii fighters or not. But if mii fighters ARE allowed, then they get to use anything they want

They're two separate toggles for a reason

You can have them both off, both on, one of and the other on, and vice versa.

Holy ****, this.

Why is this so difficult to understand, TO's? Can we just send this to each and every single TO hosting a tournament?

I don't believe 1111 Mii is custom, so I don't have to ban it. The toggles don't define customs because the game contradicts itself.



No I am not. The game says Miis are not customs. The game also says Miis ARE customs. That is a fact.

Your belief is incorrect. This isn't a debate. Mii Fighter is a custom character. He's a customized fighter the second you get to the menu where you choose Brawler/Gunner/Swordfighter and select one of the three. Mii Fighter is not a character that has to be in the game. You personally have to go to a different menu and CUSTOMIZE a Mii Fighter. Choosing to not customize him as much as others is a customization choice. He is 100000000% a custom character. This is not an opinion-based thing. This is fact.

Opinions are fine, but when you're making an argument, sitting there and saying "I don't believe that xxxx Mii Fighter is custom" is simply incorrect. It's not an opinion. It's just wrong lmao.

Like, the whole argument against you is really simple. It's simply a case of you being incorrect.

 

[GwJ]

Then we should go by what the majority wants. Currently, the majority looks to be in our favor. Not yours.

173 users on Smashboards is not the majority of players.

 

[-Xeroskia.]

And I'm sure everyone here realizes that a standard character's moveset in the custom moves section is also considered 1111? In other words their moveset would have to be matching in order for it to not be considered "custom". Deviating from this standard becomes customization.

And if we aren't arguing " viability" why would anyone use the argument "they are 3 bottom tiers" @ Dooms if viability is not an argument, then this goes down the drain.

The relationship between "1111" and "default" is not specifically labeled by the game and is circumstantial. To accept that it is related, is to accept that the custom toggle button matters.

 

[Jigglymaster]

173 users on Smashboards is not the majority of players.

Then have your TO cast a vote at your tournament with all of your participants. If they want Mii fighters to have more than just 1111, then you allow them to do so.

 

[GwJ]

Meaning that they are customizable, but not necesarily custom. The game made it's decision and you are simply not accepting it.

Why does custom on the CSS mean custom and custom in the menu means "you can customize it"?

Then have your TO cast a vote at your tournament with all of your participants. If they want Mii fighters to have more than just 1111, then you allow them to do so.

Ok.

For the record, I wouldn't allow items even if majority of players wanted them.

 

[Jigglymaster]

For the record, I wouldn't allow items even if majority of players wanted them.

So you just admitted that majority doesn't matter at all and that your opinion is better than everyone elses.

 

[CursedJay]

Why does custom on the CSS mean custom and custom in the menu means "you can customize it"?

Time to tear you apart.


The custom tab allows for characters to be customized for use when the custom toggle on the game menu is enabled. However, The custom moves of the Mii Fighters do not require the toggle to be enabled, making them usable in non custom play. Therefore, the movesets of the Mii fighters are considered by the game to be non-custom modifications.

 

[-Xeroskia.]

Why does custom on the CSS mean custom and custom in the menu means "you can customize it"?

In the English language, the same word can mean two different things. Especially if one of those things is specific to one particular thing that it is being used for. Custom in Smash 4, and custom as an English word in general have 2 different meanings and both are being used in different places here.

 

[GwJ]

In the English language, the same word can mean two different things. Especially if one of those things is specific to one particular thing that it is being used for. Custom in Smash 4, and custom as an English word in general have 2 different meanings and both are being used in different places here.

Then perhaps custom on the toggle and custom in our rulebooks can be two different things?

 

[san.]

We can have people agree with each other, with the game, or leave the game. I see all 3 happening (mostly the last one though).

 

[Ghostbone]

Miis are literally under the menu labeled "Custom"

Then ban the whole character.

Don't ban half of them (the viable half I might add) and pretend like you're justified.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Ok.

For the record, I wouldn't allow items even if majority of players wanted them.

Can I just quote this again to let you know how mean-spirited you sound right now? First you say that Smashboards voting doesn't matter, and now you say that NOBODY'S voting matters, not even your own tournament participants?!?!

All I can just say is wow.... you're an actual person behind a computer screen who apparently has human emotions, not very convincing ones but. Still. Wow.

 

[CursedJay]

Then perhaps custom on the toggle and custom in our rulebooks can be two different things?

You've lost. Straight up. You're jumping to a new possibility when you've clearly said that

Hence why the toggle does not properly define customs. The game contradicts itself..

Now that I've debunked that, you're hopping to a new realm where your argument may have some footing.

Here's the thing, though: your argument has no footing. Seriously, how many times am I going to have to debunk you to make you admit that you're wrong on this?

 

[-Xeroskia.]

Then perhaps custom on the toggle and custom in our rulebooks can be two different things?

Not quite. But my post is no longer needed as Jay has a better post to describe the relationship.

 

[Dooms]

And I'm sure everyone here realizes that a standard character's moveset in the custom moves section is also considered 1111? In other words their moveset would have to be matching in order for it to not be considered "custom". Deviating from this standard becomes customization.

And if we aren't arguing " viability" why would anyone use the argument "they are 3 bottom tiers" @ Dooms if viability is not an argument, then this goes down the drain.

No Mii Fighter main is going to take a Mii Fighter 1111-only legal tournament seriously because they're not the same characters at all, so you might as well ban them. All I'm saying regarding that honestly.

Making 1111 Mii Fighters legal just so you (as a TO) can feel good about yourself for not banning three characters and labeling it with a "we're putting them with the standard other characters have since they're all Smash 4 characters!!!" excuse is hilariously stupid.

 

[CursedJay]

We can have people agree with each other, with the game, or leave the game. I see all 3 happening (mostly the last one though).

This isn't serious enough to leave the game over. This isn't a logistics issue, and that's why I support it. Customs are generally a logistics issue, but the Mii Fighters do not count as the game has defined what they are.

 

[Nysyr]

Miis are literally under the menu labeled "Custom"

They aren't lmfao.

How about you actually get on a Wii-U or 3ds in character selection and see what happens when you click on the Mii icon?

 

[GwJ]

You've lost. Straight up. You're jumping to a new possibility when you've clearly said that

Now that I've debunked that, you're hopping to a new realm where your argument may have some footing.

Here's the thing, though: your argument has no footing. Seriously, how many times am I going to have to debunk you to make you admit that you're wrong on this?

I said that to point out the inconsistency with the user I was reply to's statement. I don't think the labels matter, but if you're going to tell me words can mean multiple things, but also say Miis are not custom simply because the button you need to press to use customs doesn't need to be pressed, then I think there's something going on here.

No Mii Fighter main is going to take a Mii Fighter 1111-only legal tournament seriously because it's all , so you might as well ban them. All I'm saying regarding that honestly.

Making 1111 Mii Fighters legal just so you (as a TO) can feel good about yourself for not banning three characters and labeling it with a "we're putting them with the standard other characters have since they're all Smash 4 characters!!!" excuse is hilariously stupid.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

[GwJ]

They aren't lmfao.

How about you actually get on a Wii-U or 3ds in character selection and see what happens when you click on the Mii icon?

 

[Dooms]

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Fixed it in an edit.

 

[CursedJay]

I said that to point out the inconsistency with the user I was reply to's statement. I don't think the labels matter, but if you're going to tell me words can mean multiple things, but also say Miis are not custom simply because the button you need to press to use customs doesn't need to be pressed, then I think there's something going on here.

My point is this: You are concerned with providing what you assume to be the best definition for a custom set. The game has taken it's stance that Mii fighters are not technically custom, yet you still try to peg your opinion as the true definition of customs.

Again:

You are stating your opinion as fact when it is not the case. The game even disagrees with you on this one. Drop it.

 

[GwJ]

My point is this: You are concerned with providing what you assume to be the best definition for a custom set. The game has taken it's stance that Mii fighters are not technically custom, yet you still try to peg your opinion as the true definition of customs.

Again:

You are stating your opinion as fact when it is not the case. The game even disagrees with you on this one. Drop it.

The game contradicts itself. I don't know how many times I have to say this.

 

[Dooms]

So you see that, and you instantly think "They're custom fighters, but I'm going to allow ONE SPECIFIC SET OF THEM just because they look similar to the other characters"???

Dude, just ****ing ban them and call it a day. It would be way better than the argument you're making at the moment lmao.

 

[CursedJay]

The game contradicts itself. I don't know how many times I have to say this.

Oh my god.

The custom tab allows for characters to be customized for use when the custom toggle on the game menu is enabled. However, The custom moves of the Mii Fighters do not require the toggle to be enabled, making them usable in non custom play. Therefore, the movesets of the Mii fighters are considered by the game to be non-custom modifications.

Are you not reading?

 

[Nysyr]

You missed the point entirely lmao. Go into smash mode and click on the Mii character.

If you're posts were actually based on facts, then I might be encouraged to spend more than 2 seconds replying.

 

[GwJ]

So you see that, and you instantly think "They're custom fighters, but I'm going to allow ONE SPECIFIC SET OF THEM just because they look similar to the other characters"???

Dude, just ****ing ban them and call it a day. It would be way better than the argument you're making at the moment lmao.

I don't think 1111 Mii Fighter is custom so I don't want to ban it.

Oh my god.



Are you not reading?

And you're forgetting I don't use the menu or the CSS to determine what counts as custom and what doesn't. You have to go through a custom menu to create Miis in the first place, but I don't think that makes their movesets custom.

 

[CursedJay]

Oh my god.

My point is this: You are concerned with providing what you assume to be the best definition for a custom set. The game has taken it's stance that Mii fighters are not technically custom, yet you still try to peg your opinion as the true definition of customs.

Again:

You are stating your opinion as fact when it is not the case. The game even disagrees with you on this one. Drop it.

Are you not reading? Seriously, I don't think you're reading. We've gone in a circle in 4 posts.

 

[T4ylor]

Some characters have moves that spawn Items while we have an Items Off rule. Why haven't we banned those characters yet?

 

[Nysyr]

I don't think 1111 Mii Fighter is custom so I don't want to ban it.


And you're forgetting I don't use the menu or the CSS to determine what counts as custom and what doesn't. You have to go through a custom menu to create Miis in the first place, but I don't think that makes their movesets custom.

Pray tell sir, what action in selecting a 1111 Mii vs a 2122 Mii in the menu is different?

Go on, tell me.

Oh, there isn't a difference? Well ****.

Good thing there isn't a difference when selecting a custom char-...

Oh wait, there is.

Well damn.

 

[Lawz.]

No Mii Fighter main is going to take a Mii Fighter 1111-only legal tournament seriously because it's all , so you might as well ban them. All I'm saying regarding that honestly.

Making 1111 Mii Fighters legal just so you (as a TO) can feel good about yourself for not banning three characters and labeling it with a "we're putting them with the standard other characters have since they're all Smash 4 characters!!!" excuse is hilariously stupid.

Again, we aren't arguing viability so this personal attack simply means nothing. But okay lol.

@ CursedJay the game certainly does consider them custom moves. In fact, a Mii fighter as a whole is considered by the game as a customization in its entirety. When you start your game for the first time, miis are not available in the character select screen (by this I mean without a moveset such as 2122 or something). They must be created and customized in the custom moves section of the game.

 

[Dooms]

I don't think 1111 Mii Fighter is custom so I don't want to ban it.

I understand that you think that.

That's why we're here to tell you that you're wrong.

 

[GwJ]

Oh my god.



Are you not reading? Seriously, I don't think you're reading. We've gone in a circle in 4 posts.

My opinion does not hinge at all on the menu thing.

Some characters have moves that spawn Items while we have an Items Off rule. Why haven't we banned those characters yet?

Because we haven't defined items as "All objects that you can hold and throw and whatnot". Items are a specific kind of "object you can hold and throw and whatnot".

Pray tell sir, what action in selecting a 1111 Mii vs a 2122 Mii in the menu is different?

Go on, tell me.

Oh, there isn't a difference? Well ****.

Good thing there isn't a difference when selecting a custom char-...

Oh wait, there is.

Well damn.

I've already stated I don't care what the menu lets you do.

 

[GwJ]

I understand that you think that.

That's why we're here to tell you that you're wrong.

I'm sorry you feel 1111 Mii Fighter is custom.

 

[CursedJay]

@ GwJ , you need to just hold this L and walk away. You are wrong and I have proven you wrong constantly.

My opinion does not hinge at all on the menu thing.

I mean.... really? Because it sort of relates.

@ CursedJay the game certainly does consider them custom moves. In fact, a Mii fighter as a whole is considered by the game as a customization in its entirety. When you start your game for the first time, miis are not available in the character select screen. They must be created and customized in the custom moves section of the game.

While true, the character must be created. There is no standard moveset, only an assumed moveset. The character does not start with 1111, it starts with what you give it. It is not a selectable character until creation is finalized.

 

[Dooms]

Again, we aren't arguing viability so this personal attack simply means nothing. But okay lol.

Nothing against you, dude. Just TO's that think it's a GREAT idea to make 1111-only Mii Fighters a thing. ;D

@ CursedJay the game certainly does consider them custom moves. In fact, a Mii fighter as a whole is considered by the game as a customization in its entirety. When you start your game for the first time, miis are not available in the character select screen (by this I mean without a moveset such as 2122 or something). They must be created and customized in the custom moves section of the game.

So you ban Mii Fighters. You don't force them into a **** standard just because you (as the TO) feel that they should have an "equal chance" compared to other characters lmao.

I'm sorry you feel 1111 Mii Fighter is custom.

It's not a feeling. It's a fact. Mii Fighters are custom. I'm sorry that 1111 Mii Fighter is in that listing, and I'm sorry that you're failing to understand that. Thank goodness Mii Fighter users are here to fix that.

 

[GwJ]

@ GwJ , you need to just hold this L and walk away. You are wrong and I have proven you wrong constantly.



While true, the character must be created. There is no standard moveset, only an assumed moveset. The character does not start with 1111, it starts with what you give it. It is not a selectable character until creation is finalized.

It doesn't matter honestly that you can't use it until you save the character. Being able to use multiple special moves is not some gameplay feature that Miis have like Luma or Fireballs. It's a feature of the system that lets you use any set because you have to create a Mii in the first place. If 1111 Miis had 3 different character slots on the CSS, then you likely wouldn't be able to select non-1111 Miis. The game failed to define a default and so we need to do so.

 

[CursedJay]

I've already stated I don't care what the menu lets you do.

For probably the 20th time this post, allow me to quote myself.

You are stating your opinion as fact when it is not the case. The game even disagrees with you on this one. Drop it.

 

[FSLink]

Tourney mode has a separate toggle for Mii Fighters on and Customs on.

And again, like I've said earlier on this topic, even if you feel that customs = Mii's alternate specials, what's the "harm" of allowing this "exception" (I don't feel it's an exception because it's defined by the game)?

Does allowing 3 unique characters as they were fully designed in the meta hurt the game? Absolutely not. This is not the same as allowing items which have proven data to be harmful to the meta.

I'd rather be inconsistent in allowing an "exception" in some people's eyes than have 3 characters removed from the meta that have not proven to be harmful to the game's meta.

 

[Lawz.]

@ GwJ , you need to just hold this L and walk away. You are wrong and I have proven you wrong constantly.



While true, the character must be created. There is no standard moveset, only an assumed moveset. The character does not start with 1111, it starts with what you give it. It is not a selectable character until creation is finalized.

So if there is no standard moveset to begin with, then it is entirely "custom" then. So arguing what can or cannot be done by toggling a button means nothing if the game does not even consider them a character.

 

[GwJ]

So you ban Mii Fighters. You don't force them into a **** standard just because you (as the TO) feel that they should have an "equal chance" compared to other characters lmao.

It's never been about equal chance. It's about being treated equally with other characters. All other characters can only use 1111, so Mii Fighters should follow suit. If you want to use more than 1 character set, use customs.