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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

nicaboy

nicaboy

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channeling death lotus
hmm ok after my **** *** weekend in atl my views have changed but not all that much

sheik vs ic"s isnt all that bad. i got to play a ton with wobbles and sheik can actualy hold her own really well. her f air is so dumb and wobbles was telling me its hard to punish when sheik is smart with it. he thinks that match can possibly be even but i dunno i want more exp before anything.

sheik peach
ya i think she is on par with fox in terms of difficulty. its 6 -4 but not that anyones cares lol.

vs marth
well duh she wins but i think i got it down. i watched some plank tope and overtriforce matches and it helped so much thanks guys. i got the match down just need to get better at it now.

falco is even but sheik has gotta be on point. i think sheik still beats puff.

*stops rant*
 
nicaboy

nicaboy

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im sorry i see how that could have been misleading.

hell ya sheik ***** peach like terra bad!

i meant to say sheik is on par with fox in terms of difficulty for peach. peach losses to sheik pretty solidly imo but since peach is a solid char she doesnt get *****.
 
P

Plairnkk

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nicaboy said:
im sorry i see how that could have been misleading.

hell ya sheik ***** peach like terra bad!

i meant to say sheik is on par with fox in terms of difficulty for peach. peach losses to sheik pretty solidly imo but since peach is a solid char she doesnt get *****.
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wobbles doesnt know how to do anything but grab, IC ***** sheik for tons of reasons other than just the grab so he is missing out.

If you want to get an idea of the match play chu. Even rusty he knows the matchup well enough to make you cry :p



edit:: fox ***** peach WAY harder than sheik ***** peach. lmao
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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A lot of reasons. U-smash is one of them.

Fox projectile camps better against her.

Fox combos better against her.

Fox crosses the stage faster for camping or switching to offense vs her float.

Fox's movement and Shine apply more pressure than Sheik's spaced moves.

Shine is better for gimping than Sheik's Fair and stalling the edge --> Shine is a better edgeguard/gimp than anything Sheik can do to Peach. Fox's ledgehop suite and Sheik's ledgehop suite are about equal quality vs Peach I think, unless Sheik routinely hits reverse Fairs in which case Sheik's is slightly better.

Sheik's useful things are that D-throw aerial is more guaranteed than U-throw aerial (SDI and Peach can sometimes just be at a percent or have a DI at a percent where it doesn't legitimately combo). And the attack range advantage. And not being able to be CGed (though I think Sheik is easier to combo with non-grab moves unless Fox DIs bad on Dash Attacks or something).

After those nice things Fox is better in pretty much every way.
 
soap

soap

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Jan 24, 2006
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GooeyBanana said:
Would you guys mind posting some typical scenarios of where you'd use buffered stuff?(Like buffer rolling, jumping, spot dodging)
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rolling and spot dodging. Every time now. I just got in the habit. there is no shield shifting so its technically quicker every time. its also good for rolling out of falco shield pressure
 
H

h!tboxexplo!ter

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Kk, I've been told that Sheiks weight etc is perfect combo food for peach
Ok several questions
1) how exactly does run> shield work? It seems like running to far makes it not possible
2) counter pick ideas vs peach? Yoshi seems nice but I don't like her moving everywhere so quick due to its size. I sorta like rainbow but maybe that's a bad choice?
3) suggestions for uptilt. I've neglected it and I'm noobish with it (aside from low % combo). Including fun stuff like which platforms it can hit thru
4) to clarify: boost grab for chaingrabs and tech chases and jc grab for everything else?
5) does fthrow have any non-edge game use at all =( ?
6) ok final one. So peach and luigi are pretty notorious for nairing during them being comboed... is it worth while for sheik to try it or is it better to try to just bail out (say on peach/falco combos going up and down, or falcons side to side combos)
 
GooeyBanana

GooeyBanana

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2) Rainbow would only be a good choice if you really know the map well enough and you're good at predicting when they'll DI behind you on your dthrows so that you can sweetspot usmash. Personally, I'd choose FoD/Battlefield and avoid FD/DL64/Mute City/Brinstar. Then again, this matchup really is just preference for you depending on your Sheik's style IMO. You may like DL64 because it has platforms where you can needle camp easier...or you may like FoD for platforms that always seem to work in your favor and for a smaller side blast box and a reasonable ceiling for sweetspot usmash/dthrow -> uair kills

3) Utilt can be good for shield pressure if you use it sparingly, don't just spam it on their shield unless they're like...Zelda lol. As far as knowing which platforms it goes through, go to training mode and find out. It's best to find this kind of stuff out by personally researching it.

4) I generally only boost grab against spacies when tech chasing and Falcon when I feel like my normal jc grab won't reach him. As far as like CG'ing Sheik/Marth goes, I'm pretty sure jc grab easily suffices. I could be wrong though.

5) Umm...my suggestion would be to watch some Amsah/European Sheik videos where they're playing on PAL. Dthrow still is pretty commonly used from what I've witnessed, but the PAL Sheiks like to use all of their throws in more...creative ways. Again, I'd suggest using it yourself in friendlies with someone and kind of just get an idea for what its use might be.

6) This is purely situational honestly. If you think the nair will get you out of a tough situation, sure, go ahead and use it. I'd suggest not using it though if you're not sure if it will get you out of trouble, because if it doesn't, then you just increased your hurtbox, and you're going to pay for it.

A lot of these questions are really just situational based, so the main answer to all of these would just really be to test them out in a friendly session or two. Hope I helped a little bit nonetheless.
 
H

h!tboxexplo!ter

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well for most of them i was looking for the specific situations. for example it would be really tedious to try to nair every move from every char so i was just looking for important examples. some of it helped a little tho ^.^
 
Winston

Winston

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Twin_A said:
Down smash.... oh God her down smash... I had a nightmare about that thing.... And I'm pretty sure it ate my future child before he was even born.

Although that is a strong point :p
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If you're talking about peach's dsmash for edgeguarding, you can hold down for the first hit of the downsmash and then let go. You'll get sent the other way instead of back offstage.
 
ZoSo

ZoSo

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h!tboxexplo!ter said:
Kk, I've been told that Sheiks weight etc is perfect combo food for peach
Ok several questions
1) how exactly does run> shield work? It seems like running to far makes it not possible
Click to expand...
You can shield during the dash animation or the run animation, but not during the "skid to a stop" animation you get when you run and let go of the stick or try to change directions.

h!tboxexplo!ter said:
3) suggestions for uptilt. I've neglected it and I'm noobish with it (aside from low % combo). Including fun stuff like which platforms it can hit thru
Click to expand...
It can definitely hit through the side platforms on Yoshi's and Stadium at the very least. It's a big part of her dthrow combo game against floaties. I'll wait for KK to elaborate on that. I mostly just use it when they're above me. <_< It's a ridiculously good move.

h!tboxexplo!ter said:
4) to clarify: boost grab for chaingrabs and tech chases and jc grab for everything else?
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Always dash grab for CGs. Boost grab for tech chases. JC grab has the same startup as dash grab if you do it perfectly, so it's probably worth it to dash grab sometimes for the extra range. Just be sure you don't miss.

h!tboxexplo!ter said:
5) does fthrow have any non-edge game use at all =( ?
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It doesn't lead to any autocombos or anything if that's what you mean, but I'd recommend you experiment with it anyway.

h!tboxexplo!ter said:
6) ok final one. So peach and luigi are pretty notorious for nairing during them being comboed... is it worth while for sheik to try it or is it better to try to just bail out (say on peach/falco combos going up and down, or falcons side to side combos)
Click to expand...
It's worth a shot. Beats getting comboed, right?

Gustav Wind said:
If you're talking about peach's dsmash for edgeguarding, you can hold down for the first hit of the downsmash and then let go. You'll get sent the other way instead of back offstage.
Click to expand...
Yep. It's pretty easy to do.
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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F-throw knocks Falco/Fox down at ~38% (after the throw... don't remember exact %) so you can use it to put them near the edge to tech chase. It sucks for gimping comparative to some of her other options. If you have the chance to D-smash them off instead of F-throw, do D-smash.

U-tilt is for any DI but complete horizontal away vs Marth (0-25 or so), Doc (don't know %s), Mario (ditto), other Sheiks in dittos (if you're not CGing), Ganon (if you suck at CG but want to start a huge combo), Link (see Sheik), Pikachu (see Link, about 0-40 or so), and Peachy Peach (0-10 or so). And then after those ranges you switch to Uair if they do anything but DI complete horizontal away. Percents assume before the grab and may be off by a little bit.

Nair out of combos is situational. If you get U-smashed by Fox at like 0-5 and DI in you can Nair him before he's finished the move but other than that and a few other SUPER SPECIFIC situations (the other guaranteed Nair I know is if Marth U-throws you and you don't DI from 0-6), it really depends on what your opponent is doing next.

It's useful to do vs people that don't time their throw combos properly though, I guess. If Fox is bad at U-throw Nairing at 0-whenever vs Sheik DI away you can sometimes score some nice combo breaks that way. But if they start U-smashing instead and then trade to get the lag cancel and then combo to another U-smash then that can be really bad. Of course, then you'd just switch to jumping out of the combo but then they'd start FJ Uairing to catch that in which case you'd do nothing and then they'd go back to their imperfect non-guaranteed Nairs and it forms

THE CIRCLE OF MIXUPS FOR PEOPLE THAT DON'T DO THEIR BREAD AND BUTTER COMBO STARTERS PROPERLY JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA

So it really depends on who and what you're dealing with.

Also Bair is often better than Nair for that sort of thing because she sticks her leg out obnoxiously low and people who you'd catch with the Nair thing don't really compensate for the potential leg room. So it's often better to Bair for this sort of thing. But sometimes the fact that it's piss weak will bite you in the arse so again sort of situational.

Twin, you should never be edgeguarded by Peach D-smash. D-tilt, sure. Nair, sure. F-throw at 200%, sure. Bob-omb, sure. Several stitches, sure. But D-smash? No. Bad Twin. Listen to what everyone else has been saying. Follow it. Harness its power. Don't try to ground tech it. Just do the DI everyone is suggesting.
 
DJRome

DJRome

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utilt pokes on battlefield as well and obv fod

ive been successfully doing the mixups with bthrow and fthrow on spacies when at around 40-50% i throw then towards the edge when im at the middle and they usually miss the tech cause they're expecting dthrow and then i get a free dash attack but at worst they're on the edge reset pretty much only can tech in to get out of it.

also, nair vs marth uthrow can be baited via cc grab. which is similar to how i bait the nair vs luigi and peach just ftilt into nothing and then grab or fair
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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CC tends to throw a monkey wrench in coming down with attacks.

Shielding can also be an issue. Because you're likely going to hit high on their shield. Falco/Fox can Shine/U-smash/grab oos and most other characters can grab. Puff can Rest you. What a jerk.
 
Twin_A

Twin_A

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Gustav Wind said:
If you're talking about peach's dsmash for edgeguarding, you can hold down for the first hit of the downsmash and then let go. You'll get sent the other way instead of back offstage.
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I'm aware of the technique and I became pretty good at it from this weekend. Light is really good at the sheik matchup (due to his brother and forward I'm sure) so he had ways of getting around it. Such as charging the D smash for a second to mess with my timing or doing a FC aerial to send me flying due to the downward DI.
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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If you hold R sort of lightly when you try the DI thing you'll block their charge D-smash if they try to get greedy with it. And then she looses her edgeguard. Otherwise, just get used to timing it on the slight charge. It's not really all that different than doing it vs the normal one. Just hold down until you hear yourself get hit. Then move the stick up.

It's not too hard with practice.

FC aerials you just have to see them run past you and change your DI. No tricks. Unless you're baller and go for the ground tech, which I don't recommend at all.
 
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