Jack Kieser
Smash Champion
...smartasses.
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Scar on the Melee vs Brawl debate: What does competitive really mean?
- Thread starter Scar
- Start date
- Status
...*******
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
No johns, son. I live in an apartment by myself, making 10.50 an hour, and I still plan on making the GA tourney.
No. Johns.
Smooth Criminal
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Jack Kieser
Smash Champion
Wait... is this coming from the guy that lives in Georgia? I just want to make sure I understand what's going on here. 
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Lol. Just joshing with you, Jack. You should still try and make it...Wait... is this coming from the guy that lives in Georgia? I just want to make sure I understand what's going on here.
*INSERT SHAMELESS PLUG FOR GA-BASED MELEE TOURNEY.*
Smooth Criminal
The Alpha Gundam
Smash Champion
I agree with this message <_<
Jack Kieser
Smash Champion
Wait... there's no White Castle?! No... NOOOOOOOOO!!! ...wait, June 7th and 8th... that might be just far enough away to where I can prepare for it. There might be hope yet!
Cort
Apple Head
White Castle is absolutely bottom tier for fast food, and I didn't think that was possible.
White Castle is actually right above Subway. Look up the tier list, n00b.
ToastMAN
Smash Journeyman
i think that fishy joes is god tier
Cort
Apple Head
...fast food money match?
Name the time and place.
Cort
Apple Head
Man, that sounds disgusting. I was kidding about that, weirdo.
LOL_Master
Smash Lord
that'll be more competitive than brawl still....
Cort
Apple Head
LOL. This is true.
Lol I wanna friendly Scar in a good game of Melee 
.
Your still too goodz Scar I'm gonna make sure I play you lotz at SPOC
.Your still too goodz Scar I'm gonna make sure I play you lotz at SPOC
LOL_Master
Smash Lord
he's not... .
m2k is a pro at sleeping....
No lie he can sleep wherever he wants to.
No lie he can sleep wherever he wants to.
reborn394
Smash Apprentice
I guess you fight with your soul; without being hateful. Melee and Brawl are both good in their own ways.
chillindude829
Smash Master
wtf this thread has 65 pages at 40 posts per page? WTF
here ill end it:
1. melee is obviously a better game competitively than brawl, period
2. however melee is also really really old compared to brawl. the game has been dissected and completely figured out already
3. despite the clear advantage melee has in terms of competitiveness, brawl is newer and there is really no way to sway the entirety of the community to go back to melee. also the competitive smash community has gotten way bigger since the release of brawl, and obviously brawl newbies wont want to go back to melee
4. brawl will be the main smash game regardless, so we might as well enjoy it.
here ill end it:
1. melee is obviously a better game competitively than brawl, period
2. however melee is also really really old compared to brawl. the game has been dissected and completely figured out already
3. despite the clear advantage melee has in terms of competitiveness, brawl is newer and there is really no way to sway the entirety of the community to go back to melee. also the competitive smash community has gotten way bigger since the release of brawl, and obviously brawl newbies wont want to go back to melee
4. brawl will be the main smash game regardless, so we might as well enjoy it.
Scar
#HarveyDent
lol MM any time any place.I don't get it, why do people say scar is so good?
Card
Smash Lord
Doodx
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2007
- Messages
- 497
well melee is much more competitive than brawl but who knows, a new technique can appear and change the whole game like wavedash or something
brawl is still nice and beautiful but it irritates me that evryone falls at the same speed if it werent for this, then brawl would be as fast as melee since di would change and chars would not seem slow and floaty
lets hope for a large *** update that can change it! but hey its still not that bad as long as competition and tourneys exist then its okay
brawl is still nice and beautiful but it irritates me that evryone falls at the same speed
if it werent for this, then brawl would be as fast as melee since di would change and chars would not seem slow and floatylets hope for a large *** update that can change it! but hey its still not that bad
as long as competition and tourneys exist then its okay
Wavedashing did not change the whole game. It altered it slightly, definitely, but it didn't revolutionize much outside of a few characters. It's the same as Dash Dancing, it was something useful, it was added to the meta game and then people just found ways to use it. It didn't revolutionize the game, but it was very useful. And nothing will ever make Brawl's hit stun/punishment game not suck.well melee is much more competitive than brawl but who knows, a new technique can appear and change the whole game like wavedash or something
brawl is still nice and beautiful but it irritates me that evryone falls at the same speed
lets hope for a large *** update that can change it! but hey its still not that bad
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
*sigh*
For christ sake people. Finding a technique doesn't necessarily increase the competitive value of the game. It may potentially have value, but it doesn't help since the games core engine has been tweaked with to make it reminiscent of a party game; as if it wasn't so similar to one as it is.
Seriously, all of the people who keep saying "Maybe you'll find a miracle technique" really need to shut up and look more in depth on the basic mechanics of the game engine. I know it's simply optimism, but intertwined with incompetence, it results in stupidity.
This is something I simply wanted to address. It was somewhat of a vent.
For christ sake people. Finding a technique doesn't necessarily increase the competitive value of the game. It may potentially have value, but it doesn't help since the games core engine has been tweaked with to make it reminiscent of a party game; as if it wasn't so similar to one as it is.
Seriously, all of the people who keep saying "Maybe you'll find a miracle technique" really need to shut up and look more in depth on the basic mechanics of the game engine. I know it's simply optimism, but intertwined with incompetence, it results in stupidity.
This is something I simply wanted to address. It was somewhat of a vent.
Xigger
Smash Lord
Different techniques for starters and pros. That pretty much sums this whole arguement up.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot....
Characters were imbalanced in Melee. Characters are balanced in Brawl. The lack of tiers in Brawl is the answer to why the better players don't win as much.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot....
Characters were imbalanced in Melee. Characters are balanced in Brawl. The lack of tiers in Brawl is the answer to why the better players don't win as much.
If this wasn't sarcasm, you might as well stab your eyes, rip off your ears, and stitch up any orifice, and lock your doors before you have to endure the amount of flaming and **** that awaits you for being so ignorant of the differences between Melee and Brawl.
I hope I'm wrong.
Xigger
Smash Lord
Sorry, I thought that the term tier was a rated summary of how each character performs in fights. But this topic IS more about competition than character balance... my bad.
People may debate this, but I was always told, and personally believe, that tiers show which characters are winning in tournaments most. In melee, more people won with Fox than any other, so he was top. What helps this is that Fox was an extremely strong character.
So, the reason we don't have a true tier list for Brawl right now is because there hasn't been a lot of tournaments, let alone national ones, to make a list off of. That's all.
But yeah, any game can be competitive. I don't know why the topic of the thread was changed to that.
Xigger
Smash Lord
Fixed. And I guess that's true.... but that's based on who is used the most.
People are just complaining that tripping, the lack of wavedashing, similar falling speed, and Final Smashes aren't as competitive.
**** Chillin, you'd think that within the confines of 65 pages, at 40 posts per page, we would have come to these conclusions at least...I don't know, 100 times? Well, thank god we have you, cause I think we have finally hit the 100th time all that **** has been said. Thanks for utilizing your superiors reasoning ability to end the 'debate.' Really, we couldn't have done it without you.
It's like, we once were blind, but now can see.
Good Christ, people are dumb. This statement is so backwards its not even funny.
Brawl certainly has the illusion of balance, due to Sakurai's attempts at "leveling the playing field", but probably moreso because you WANT to see it as balanced, because you're a newcomer to how Smash works and have no clue what you're talking about.
Brawl seems externally balanced, but when you get to the core of the issue, it's just as imbalanced (and maybe even moreso) than Melee. Characters that relied heavily on l-cancelling to reduce lag and even land a hit (Bowser, DK, CF, etc.) are left in the dust. Characters that have slower attacks altogether suffer from other characters being able to drop their shield and immediately punish it with a grab or a quicker attack. Anyone who doesn't have the ability to camp or doesn't have strong anti-camping options is screwed.
You think Melee was bad because only 4 characters were used religiously in tournaments? Just wait until the so-called "Brawl metagame" comes to fruition. I'll bet you any money the top 4 characters used in tournies will be Pit, Snake, Meta, and Wolf.
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
<3 Chillin
wow chillin has....exact....same...opinion...as me???
gg guys
now back on topic
GA FTW
........ Wait just so I get this you "fixed" that fox was an efficient character to WD with?
What about Icz and Samus? Their WD is amazing >_>. And they weren't top tier.
In conclusion good WD doesn't = Amazing character.
The lack of WD, having similar falling speeds is not what is making the game less competitive.
The game may lose some competitive value but no one truly believes that smash can't be competitive without WD or because all the characters fall at the same speeds.
Also tripping may have been the worst thing to ever been programmed to the game like really. The game was made so that the game RANDOMLY decides if you trip or not. If the game forced you to trip because you tried to do something like doing multiple things at the same time, then it wouldn't have been so bad at least its not totally random.
Final smashes are a lot of fun but I'm with PC(Well... the last input I saw he put into it). Final smash give unfair advantages because someone just happened to be at a spot on FD where the FS ball magically appears above your head. What happens to characters like ganondorf who runs as fast as the pace of brawl's fights? He has to lose the option of using the ball practically its dumb.
FS balls are way too random, they appear randomly and reward people randomly. In other words they are too random and random should never be a factor in a competitive fighting game where the better player should 90+% win.
Tiers are absolutely based on what characters seem to win tournaments in general.
Fox was just so widely picked and therefore the best character in the game according to the tier list.
The tier list doesn't have to accurately show the best characters in the game . It has to accurately show the characters that win a lot.
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