Scar on the Melee vs Brawl debate: What does competitive really mean?

[Plairnkk]

Melee will never co-exist with brawl, and it will never be the same again. Even though it's a better, more competitive game new players coming to the scene are going to flock to brawl because

1.) its the newer game
2.) its prettier
3.) its easier

This leaves only the current melee players to continue with melee, and as they quit new ones won't be introduced. Also, a lot of the melee players have moved to Brawl NOT because it's a better game, but because that's where all the new scrubs (free money) are.

As much as I love melee I know the communities cant and wont coexist, and melee is for the mostpart done. The smash series is too popular and infested with brawl newbies (this thread) for anything to work otherwise.

It's all good though.

*waits for starcraft 2*

 

[Brookman]

*waits for street fighter 4*

 

[Jack Kieser]

Plairnkk Respect--;

As far as I'm concerned, we can do whatever the hell we want to; we're the competitive Smash community, last time I checked, not the people on the outside. If we want Melee to continue, it will. Simple as that. You want to know how to introduce new players to Melee? Wouldn't Brawl be the perfect tool for that? They can learn all of the basics in Brawl and have a good time doing so, and when they hit that technical ceiling we keep arguing about, we can be like, 'Check this game out; it's the previous game in the series, but there's a lot of things you can do here that you can't do in Brawl, and they're both really fun because of it.' Problem solved.

I'm convinced anyone who says that the two games can't co-exist in our own competitive community simply doesn't want them to.

 

[Brookman]

Excellent point Mr. Jack, however, the excessive technicalities of Melee are a major turn off for many players. Still, there will be many who learn basic concepts of Melee through brawl, and may help to enhance melee's community once people become really discouraged by shield camping snakes and chain throwing DDDs etc.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

*waits for street fighter 4*

*POINTS AND LAUGHS.*

Smooth Criminal

 

[Brookman]

*looks in mirror*

*POINTS AND LAUGHS*

Smooth Criminal.

 

[Plairnkk]

No, because 99% of people will come into Brawl and be glad that they can do well against the better players, they won't want to progress backwards to melee and get 4 stocked by all the good players.

 

[Brookman]

I think they'll be getting four stocked by the good players in Brawl too. Only time may tell.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Excellent point Mr. Jack, however, the excessive technicalities of Melee are a major turn off for many players. Still, there will be many who learn basic concepts of Melee through brawl, and may help to enhance melee's community once people become really discouraged by shield camping snakes and chain throwing DDDs etc.

Exactly. I mean, chances are the people who would be turned off due to Melee's tech skill stuff wouldn't have joined before anyway, so no real loss there. But, if Brawl can be used to bring people into both scenes, then I don't see why we shouldn't encourage Brawl tournaments. It can only be in our favor.

 

[LOL_Master]

so...basically brawl should be destroyed...!....?

 

[Fletch]

so...basically brawl should be destroyed...!....?

If only it was that easy.

 

[Plairnkk]

hmm..

*plots*

 

[Cort]

Oh, if there were some way...

 

[Jack Kieser]

Oh Jesus... *facepalm* The plotting has begun...

 

[The Alpha Gundam]

*is already plotting*
*looks @ sig >_>*

 

[Cort]

That Peach looks scrumptious

 

[Dogysamich]

A gundam is holding a laser cannon in my face and telling me to post or die. O_O

 

[R i p]

A gundam is holding a laser cannon in my face and telling me to post or die. O_O

Did you just call Optimus Prime a gundam?

 

[Fletch]

*is already plotting*
*looks @ sig >_>*

Why Georgia? Bring it to the Midwest.

 

[Jack Kieser]

God-****it, Georgia? Why must it be so far from me?

 

[Plairnkk]

GA is not far from TX in melee tournament standards - WE TRAVEL FAR.

P.S, my birthday is june 8, as long as everyone gets me a present, ill come. BWAHH

and that present is 5 dollars.

 

[The Executive]

Where in GA? I might be interested as long as it's west of Atlanta.

 

[Wiseguy]

Plairnkk Respect--;

As far as I'm concerned, we can do whatever the hell we want to; we're the competitive Smash community, last time I checked, not the people on the outside. If we want Melee to continue, it will. Simple as that. You want to know how to introduce new players to Melee? Wouldn't Brawl be the perfect tool for that? They can learn all of the basics in Brawl and have a good time doing so, and when they hit that technical ceiling we keep arguing about, we can be like, 'Check this game out; it's the previous game in the series, but there's a lot of things you can do here that you can't do in Brawl, and they're both really fun because of it.' Problem solved.

I'm convinced anyone who says that the two games can't co-exist in our own competitive community simply doesn't want them to.

Smash 64 also. There are three excellent games in the Smash Bros trilogy and more than enough Smashers to go around.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I think part of the problem is that it's hard, if not impossible, to create a game that will appeal to both the combo players and the ones that like slower paced play in such a way that it's balanced and fun for both sets of people. Nintendo wanted a game that was easy to pick up and play, not one where people mash buttons at the rate of about 60 per second. To do this, many of the old stuff had to be removed, which means that the game no longer appeals to most combo players. And in most aspects, they didn't seem to care about the combo player crowd at all, making true combos very rare.

So tell me, what is it about Melee that you like that couldn't be found in other fighting game series? If you are big into combos, why didn't you play another fighting game competitively?

 

[Meta Ryu]

power + intelligence
________________ = Skill competitiveness = Skill vs Skill

technique





where power = how strong you are
Int = how smart you use your character
Tech = how well you can actually use your character
and skill > epic level


aka - the higher the level of skill that CAN be present among a large number of combatents, the higher the level of competitveness there will be.
Thats what competitiveness is.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I think part of the problem is that it's hard, if not impossible, to create a game that will appeal to both the combo players and the ones that like slower paced play in such a way that it's balanced and fun for both sets of people. Nintendo wanted a game that was easy to pick up and play, not one where people mash buttons at the rate of about 60 per second. To do this, many of the old stuff had to be removed, which means that the game no longer appeals to most combo players. And in most aspects, they didn't seem to care about the combo player crowd at all, making true combos very rare.

So tell me, what is it about Melee that you like that couldn't be found in other fighting game series? If you are big into combos, why didn't you play another fighting game competitively?

Well, no other fighter I can think of has edge guarding.

No other fighter allows the complete freedom of movement that smash does.

In most other fighters, combos are predefined within the game engine. Smash has been a game that allowed you to make up your own. I think this is the aspect that is the most missed in Brawl.

Smash doesn't have HP bars. Staying alive is more complex in Smash, and is apart of a characters strength.

Smash CAN have 4 players on screen. It allowed a 2v2 community to arise.

I'm sure there are others, but Smash is a VERY different fighter than other fighting games...

 

[LouisLeGros]

This is about more then combos and smash is radically different from other fighting games.
You can't find the kind of freedom that is in the smash series in other fighting games.

I'd rather go back to CS or continue to wait for Starcraft 2 then going to some fighting series that I don't like and that is nothing like Smash.

 

[LouisLeGros]

power + intelligence
________________ = Skill competitiveness = Skill vs Skill

technique





where power = how strong you are
Int = how smart you use your character
Tech = how well you can actually use your character
and skill > epic level


aka - the higher the level of skill that CAN be present among a large number of combatents, the higher the level of competitveness there will be.
Thats what competitiveness is.

No

This is not math and that pseudo formula is horrible

 

[Brookman]

...

What the hell are you saying?

 

[Jack Kieser]

GA is not far from TX in melee tournament standards - WE TRAVEL FAR.

P.S, my birthday is june 8, as long as everyone gets me a present, ill come. BWAHH

and that present is 5 dollars.

You're talking to the guy that has a 9-5 job Monday through Saturday. Finding the time to drive out to Georgia to play Smash isn't exactly an easy thing for me to do. (On top of that, the price of gas. On top of that, I'm transferring colleges to the American University of Athens in the fall. Money is tight for me.)

 

[RDK]

Have fun with SF4, Brookman. It looks like garbage.

They should have stuck with 2D and made a SF Alpha 4.

 

[reborn394]

I don't know; I guess you can fight with your soul...seeing the other opponent as a worthy opponent.

 

[Brookman]

not serious about street fighter four, its just the only game fighting game i know thats coming out

 

[ADHD]

I think multiple air dodging destroyed any chance this game had of being competitive. Every time I face someone about equal as me, I feel scrunched in this little box that I can only come out of every once in a while to get two hits on then just get back to square one. It is not fun... If only melee for wifi!

 

[giantimi]

This thread is still alive?

 

[Aesir]

I'll wait for sc4...no wait thats going to suck.

****

 

[Jack Kieser]

Is there no fighting game that can step up to the challenge of being to our satisfaction?!

 

[LavisFiend]

Is there no fighting game that can step up to the challenge of being to our satisfaction?!

OF COURSE!

We still have Smash Bros. Crusade coming out! With over 74 characters, 56 assist trophies, and a metagame that is SURELY to surpass Brawl bigtime considering only one loyal smash fan is creating it.

As a matter of fact, go feast your eyes on the impressive screenshots of crusade, and you tell me, that game does not REEK awesome...

...

...

.......XD Seriously, go look.

 

[Ciel~Image]

Is there no fighting game that can step up to the challenge of being to our satisfaction?!

super smash bros melee

 

[RDK]

super smash bros melee

Someone give this man a cigar.