Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Oasis_S]

Like Adventures.

Epic Yarn too, right?

Krystal and Prince Fluff could have been STARS.

 

[Big-Cat]

I wonder if Miyamoto regrets building a story in LoZ (though I guess others had more of a hand in that).

Not necessarily directed at LoZ, but sometimes story does get in the way of gameplay.

I think the problem lies in not combining the story with the gameplay favorably. As I mentioned, the support system in Fire Emblem is a good example of combining story elements with the gameplay. The closer your characters are, the more likely they'll team up to attack or push them out the way of danger. Miriel and Sully are excellent partners in my Awakening file because I built their support up to A.

Looking back at earlier games that could've implemented themes better, there's Other M. That game has anything but subtle maternal themes in it, but what if the themes were put into gameplay? Things like rescue portions or keeping someone safe for a boss fight would've been great ways to implement this without being overly intrusive in the gameplay.

Essentially "ain't broke, don't change it to something else".

I never quite liked this saying. It's like saying there's nothing to improve on.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

You know, I've kinda noticed it nowadays too. Nintendo has quite gone with the whole "no-taking-risks"-thing for quite a while now... No new IPs except for digital which are cheap because I guess they don't wish to waste up money too much on 'em and play safe to see new IPs working there. At least the digital ones are doing well.

At times I'm just afraid SSB might also contribute to this: with franchises featured in them, the ones who don't or are kinda in the sidelines will be somewhat ignored or completely not ever resurfaced again (Except retros like Ice Climbers or R.O.B). And creepier is that most of the FE-games since Brawl were based on Marth's continent, in some way or another. When will we get a new one with all new characters? Was Radiant Dawn too much of a blow to the gut?

Though I haven't got Awakening yet but you get what I mean: at the end there's no new thing under sun. So pretty much throwing stuff to an existing IP just seems at times out of nowhere. (And I can already hear the franchises running out of ideas badly when the leitmotifs/footstrapped themes are coming bit too much for my liking.)

Falchion: It didn't work in the gameplay department too well, but the story, while bit cumbersome and stuffy to stomach, was quite something unseen on a Mario-game, and IMO was something worthwhile to see with those characters. I gotta yet play TTYD properly, but I'm sure it balances all this.


Kuma: Didn't though really mean to say "don't fix it" at the end in that place.
My point was though in "don't make something that is good as it is into something else that is regarded out of place and wouldn't necessarily work in the same way as your things"

Like that one review in GameFAQs for NSMB2:

If it ain't broke, make it better.

 

[---]

Not sure just how deep a role Miyamoto plays in the development of Nintendo games now-a-days (definitely not every game, but he's definitely played a role within each team at Nintendo at one point or another), but I'd also guess that it's tough not to respect the guy or not want to ask him for some advice (or an autograph for that matter). Miyamoto does serve as a, if not the, primary role model in the industry today.

That said, I do agree that the guy has made his share of mistakes (no one's perfect), but it's pretty much impossible to get rid of his sphere of influence (direct or indirect) until he finally bites the dust (to which could potentially do more harm than good in the end, there will definitely be a lot tears shed that day).

You know, I've kinda noticed it nowadays too. Nintendo has quite gone with the whole "no-taking-risks"-thing for quite a while now... No new IPs except for digital which are cheap because I guess they don't wish to waste up money too much on 'em and play safe to see new IPs working there. At least the digital ones are doing well.

Pretty sure it's not just Nintendo who's been trying to play it safe ("goes into a corner to cry about Mega Man"). On the bright side though, the new IPs are still new IPs in the end, and the shift towards digital releases is nothing new (if anything Nintendo's playing catch up). The fact that the IPs are doing fairly well is a definite plus in the end

 

[N3ON]

Epic Yarn too, right?

Krystal and Prince Fluff could have been STARS.

I don't think Epic Yarn has ever been directly linked to Miyamoto, but I wouldn't be surprised if he had a hand in it.

And in a way I'm glad Adventures became a Starfox game, because personally I like Krystal, and had it stayed as Dinosaur Planet, Nintendo would've lost all rights to it (which many people would be happy about). I'm sure the game would've been just as good either way, quality-wise, and keeping it as its original IP would ultimately have made more sense, but since one Rare character I like didn't go the way of my favourite Rare character (B&K), I can't totally regret the decision to change Dinosaur Planet. Though I agree adding Fox and the SF elements were dumb.

I also doubt Epic Yarn would've sold too well if not for Kirby, but that's just a guess. Maybe Prince Fluff could've been a D-list Star.

 

[FalKoopa]

Now that --- mentions it, a lot of recent Nintendo games have been shifting towards new gameplay features, above everything else.

A few examples that come to mind:
Awakening - Pair up system, Marriage and all that stuff.
Sticker Star - Stickers and Platformer based gameplay
Mario 3D Land - Linear levels, time limits
Harmoknight - Rhythm based gameplay

Feel free to add to the list.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm pretty sure that those in Awakening were in the older games. 3D Land more or less applied the linearity of the 2D games to the 3D games.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Pair Up is something more of a Rescue-mechanic meets Stat Buffs. Marriage was from FE4 already. So Kuma's in the right spot.

But yeah. I wonder if we'll even a proper game with a story. Though I guess Xenoblade (and to lesser extent Golden Sun) has done this now.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Yea I personally think Xenoblade is one of their best newer IP's. It's one of the only games they have that has a solid storyline to it.

Go Shulk! (I hope...)

 

[---]

Honestly there are positives to staying with the series roots but at the same time introducing new elements/mechanics gets rid of the stale factor and can fix issues the previous games had.

Could probably go deeper, but whatever, definitely won't argue Sticker Star's new mechanics were all that great, though I can imagine some of the thought processes the developers were going through when they were suggested.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I mean, I guess I'd get Sticker Star when it's somewhat cheap after I get over the fact that it's supposed to be a Mario-game. I mean, if it was some kind of a new IP or had NOTHING to do with Paper Mario at least, I would have welcomed this game with a heartbeat.

Though some things could use work (like having a DAMN PURPOSE for wasting Stickers.)

 

[FlareHabanero]

Xenoblade, Fossil Fighters, and Dillon's Rolling Western are some new IP's from Nintendo that I particularly liked in recent years. Contrary to what people think, Nintendo does make new IPs all of the time, it's just that they tend to fall under the radar due to Nintendo being reluctant to take risks with new stuff and as such not advertise much.

 

[volbound1700]

I do agree that I wish Mario Series would include more past characters often and give them more of a story such as Wario, Waluigi, Daisy, Koopalings, etc. People want these characters involved in the game and Nintendo doesn't listen. Even a Wart or Tatanga return would be nice. I wrote on a review for Super Paper Mario that very note that the game should have included Wario, Waluigi, Daisy, or other Nintendo characters and there is no reason they should only appear in the party games.

 

[Arcadenik]

Probably because Nintendo didn't really bother to advertise and promote them like they do with Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and any franchises that had playable characters in Smash.

 

[FalKoopa]

The Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi series need to add (at least) Wario and the Koopalings.

Seeing that 2013 is the year of Luigi, I hope Nintendo has plans to flesh out Waluigi and Daisy as well.

 

[Frostwraith]

This Year of Luigi could be a good opportunity to have WAA appear in main Mario games.

 

[volbound1700]

I would honestly start Waluigi off with his own game, kind of like a Wario Land game but make it a little more unique. Waluigi would be like an anti-hero in his game. Another option could have been to implement Waluigi into the Luigi's Mansion series somehow.

 

[FalKoopa]

I would honestly start Waluigi off with his own game, kind of like a Wario Land game but make it a little more unique. Waluigi would be like an anti-hero in his game. Another option could have been to implement Waluigi into the Luigi's Mansion series somehow.

WAA should be involved in the ressurection of King Boo.

Also, I do hope Waluigi appears in a WarioWare game.

EDIT: Waluigi will appear in no games this year; It's the 13th of his appearance. Just too unlucky for him

 

[Bowserlick]

Take out Snake. Put in Waluigi. Replace explosives with bob-ombs.

 

[FalKoopa]

Take out Snake. Put in Waluigi. Replace explosives with bob-ombs.

Not sure if serious...

 

[Oasis_S]

It just seems to me that Peach is so overrated. I don't really like her at all (Don't tell my friend I said that. XD).
If there were female characters who aren't completely terrible? And who would that be, in your opinion?

There are a few problems with it. Midna is a really strange choice at this point in time, but I wouldn't call her terrible as she's one of the more major non-main characters who is decently popular and very interesting Smash-wise. Captain Syrup is weird to me, but I feel others would appreciate her more than I do. Anna might seem weird but I've warmed up to her a lot as a general FE rep instead of Chrom who is really boring and only considered due to FE13. KOS-MOS isn't actually a very odd choice if you want to believe that silly idea that Namco gets a freebie character just because they're working on the game. The Villager is a gender neutral character, but they're still out of place due to Sakurai's beliefs on Animal Crossing. I mean, without Sakurai saying they shouldn't fight, the Villager would actually be a very good character to add on anyone's roster. ANOTHER HUGE PROBLEM WITH THIS ROSTER IS THAT IT IS TOO HUGE.

But out of these 58 characters, I count 34 males, 13 females, and 11 I consider neutral (All 7 Pokemon, Mii, Villager, Ice Climbers, and Midna & Wolf Link). So, in terms of MALEDOMINATEDNESS, it's a 10% decrease from Brawl (69% to 59%).

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I approve the above roster wholeheartedly. *brofists and thumbsup*

And you know, maybe I'll be also going to warm up to Anna as a rep as I've seen this one.

 

[---]

Sorry, I just saw this and I couldn't resist posting it here.

Spoiler

 

[Croph]

@Waluigi discussion: I'm not really fond of Waluigi, character and all. But even though he was created by Camelot (that's true, right?) I think he deserves an appearance/playable role in a (major) game other than a party/spin-off. Good opportunity to flesh out his character more, and whatnot. I'm dumb. Is Camelot second or third party? What's/was Factor 5's relationship with Nintendo? Second, right?

@Oasis: Oh hey, there's Roy in that roster. 11/10. Would bang.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Croph: I think second party.

Also l had to crack at Glass Joe being with the Royals.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'll make sure to put a negative number of Roys in my roster

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I'm getting tired of people saying Chrom is boring. Roys pretty boring himself in FE6. The only good personality traits that kid has are the ones fanboys made up for him in their dreams. You could take out Roy and replace him with just about any average joe and the story would be the same.

At least chrom shows some emotion every now and then.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I've never played Roy's game...did it even come out in English?

 

[Oasis_S]

I'll make sure to put a negative number of Roys in my roster

You could add Yor, the green-haired water-axe wielder.

At least chrom shows some emotion every now and then.

You're right, that's much more interesting than a fire-sword.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

You're right, that's much more interesting than a fire-sword.

According to sakurai any character can have fiery moves considering Ike got one in SSBB despite himself never using fire as an attack.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Psycho: Never came out to America. Lyn, Eliwood and Hector pretty much stitched this up with FE7.


Chrom is a good guy so far to me. I might check what makes him bland to many, but I'm not so far against him to be in SSB4.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You could add Yor, the green-haired water-axe wielder.

You know, Yor has his own world.

He is called "The Hunter From the Future"

In his world, he's the man!

 

[Croph]

Ack...I shouldn't have mentioned Roy if a FE discussion is going to arise...

But in Roy's defence, all we have is a measly fan translation of his game. Who knows, some things might have gotten lost in translation. But at least from playing his game, I can tell you that he has more personality than Mario and Link. Uh...it's not a lot of personality, but from little actions and support conversations, at least it tells you something, y'know. But not like personality matters in Smash...

 

[Baskerville]

You just like dat red hair, admit it.

 

[Arcadenik]

Waluigi isn't the Camelot rep I had in mind. I was thinking of someone from Golden Sun. You know, someone like Isaac or even Matthew.

 

[Oasis_S]

Isaac should wear Waluigi's outfit as an alternate costume.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

But not like personality matters in Smash...

True. But Chrom has the potential to be just as exciting as anyone else.

The argument that Chrom is too bland to make it in is absolutely ridiculous. Even if there was some sort of universal opinion that said chrom was boring (which there is not), the devs should be insulted that people didn't think they could make him exciting. Hell, if chrom is doomed what chance does little mac have?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Waluigi isn't the Camelot rep I had in mind. I was thinking of someone from Golden Sun. You know, someone like Isaac or even Matthew.

Waluigi for smash everyone!

 

[Fastblade5035]

Waluigi for smash everyone!

You know you want it.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I have to admit, that gif is awesome.