Rosalina Custom Sets: Electric Boogaloo

[DisidisiD]

You have no idea how to use the move if your'e saying this, you do send Luma out and wait for someone to just reflect it, nor should you use it close enough to them for that. You need to use it and then move with Luma, grab the opponent if they have a reflector and toss them into it. You need to look at Rosalina's moves a bit more.

Also launch star attack is obvious, it makes her like Zero Suit Samus, killing really high up with her up B.

Could you put a video of your usage of these moves so it can be seen how they are supposed to be used? I want to see the moves in practice.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

You have no idea how to use the move if your'e saying this, you do send Luma out and wait for someone to just reflect it, nor should you use it close enough to them for that. You need to use it and then move with Luma, grab the opponent if they have a reflector and toss them into it. You need to look at Rosalina's moves a bit more.

Also launch star attack is obvious, it makes her like Zero Suit Samus, killing really high up with her up B.

Launch Star Attack isn't even comparable to Boost Kick. Here's some data I gathered from training mode:

ZSS Boost Kick:
16% damage
Kills Mario from FH height at approx. 70% (off top)
Kills Mario from ground at approx. 85% (off side from starting position on FD) or 95% (off side from center of FD)

Rosalina Launch Star Attack:
12% damage
Kills Mario from FH height at approx. 140% (off top)
Kills Mario from ground at approx. 175% (off top)

It's an inferior attack no matter how you slice it, and it cuts Rosalina's recovery distance by an absurd degree. I would personally never consider taking it.

But even so, Rosalina already has a 2331 set. That's Luma Warp/Shooting Star Bit/Launch Star Attack/Gravitational Pull. That really only leaves Power Luma Shot as a point of contention and while I'll concede it's relatively unexplored as a move, I also have yet to see anything demonstrating its usefulness in general, especially compared to Luma Warp and in the face of Floaty Star Bit which fills basically the same role, with admittedly less damage, but without tying up Luma in the process until the move completes. (And Luma is NOT invincible during Power Luma Shot unless you fully charge it, anyone can poke it and end the move early.) Launch Star Attack's niche is fairly obvious as "Rosalina's only recovery with a hitbox," mediocre as I feel it is, but Power Luma Shot has "slow moving Luma" which is basically the exact opposite of what Rosalina wants at this point in the meta.

 

[Xaltis]

I don't have any videos of it yet. Didn't get much stream time at our first customs tourney.

And I never said it was better than Zero Suit's Up B. Again Luma warp loses to Sheik (bouncing fish) and Zero Suit (Down B)

Power Luma shot is not only a very strong move and covers space while you move, but it gives Luma extra life time, instead of just dying from a dash attack instantly.

There are TEN pre sets we can use. We need to be fair and let Power Luma shot exist in one of those slots and we need to do it NOW.

 

[Zonderion]

I have to agree with Xaltis. If the last 2 are only there as fillers then one should be changed to include LPS. The debate of whether the move is usable is irrelevant. We are limiting potential play styles by not including it on at least 1 set.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I have to agree with Xaltis. If the last 2 are only there as fillers then one should be changed to include LPS. The debate of whether the move is usable is irrelevant. We are limiting potential play styles by not including it on at least 1 set.

Well I'm not really sure we should include lps. I am open to the idea but I went back to the move to play around with it and it's pretty bad. I can't really see what MU you'd prefer it to luma shot. I actually think by using it you're not optimizing your Rosalina. I really only thing that we should look to optimization of Rosalina.

Unfortunately for @ Xaltis I don't believe his set is optimized. But I don't decide things here just voicing my opinion.

 

[Zonderion]

I see what you are saying. I personally don't use it, but I also have not experimented with it. The problem I see is that the Rosas have decided the last two options aren't all that important, hence why they can be written over. Just because we haven't found anything useful with LPS shouldn't automatically disqualify it as an option. Xaltis claims he has, and it may benefit his play style to have it. Whose to say others are the same, but haven't found smashboards yet? Should we exile those who enjoy what it does have to offer?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I see what you are saying. I personally don't use it, but I also have not experimented with it. The problem I see is that the Rosas have decided the last two options aren't all that important, hence why they can be written over. Just because we haven't found anything useful with LPS shouldn't automatically disqualify it as an option. Xaltis claims he has, and it may benefit his play style to have it. Whose to say others are the same, but haven't found smashboards yet? Should we exile those who enjoy what it does have to offer?

There are multiple issues at play:

1. EVO is locking its ruleset on March 27, so there's very little time to spare in any event to get a final version to Mr. Wizard.
2. Ampharos already publicized the release, and people have already started creating and transferring the sets. Updating it hastily like this isn't impossible but from a PR perspective is somewhat undesirable given that the project is supposed to be a stable logistical solution to the problem of allowing customs in the first place. (That said, this is not the final version by any means and there's nothing stopping us from exploring Power Luma Shot for the next revision, whenever that is.)
3. Power Luma Shot, even on a theoretical level, seems flat out inferior to Floaty Star Bit if you want to play the "follow a slow projectile" game. Ampharos wrote a pretty well detailed post on the subject in the main project thread here.

 

[Xaltis]

Well I'm trying to get Mr. Wizard to change Rosalina's pre sets. Not really liking the people on these boards right now, since you guys screwed me from using my character to her best potential. I have no idea why you guys would do that to yourselves either.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Well I'm trying to get Mr. Wizard to change Rosalina's pre sets. Not really liking the people on these boards right now, since you guys screwed me from using my character to her best potential. I have no idea why you guys would do that to yourselves either.

Nobody screwed you out of anything. Your attitude is ridiculous. Sorry bout your customs aren't optimal.

 

[DisidisiD]

What is the list of sets as of now? It may be possible to replace at least one or two of the experimentals with 3333 or some thing else. I agree that variety is necessary, whether or not we perceive the move to be good.

 

[Xaltis]

Nobody screwed you out of anything. Your attitude is ridiculous. Sorry bout your customs aren't optimal.

What attitude? I'm here talking like a normal person. Who are you again? Someone trying to make things worse when I'm trying to have a legitimate conversation? Do I need the block button?

 

[DisidisiD]

You came off as a bit abrasive. All I am saying is that we could try to fit in LPS into at least one slot. I'm really curious as to how he uses the move in his gameplay and I would like to see it in action. If it helps and it turns out well, great, the meta will be advanced. If it is an enormous failure, we can take it out if we want another set to take precedence. The way I see it, if we can fit it, its a win:win.

 

[Xaltis]

*Power Luma Shot, and yes I agree, so there was no reason for your out burst, I don't want to be screwed out of my EVO Sponsorship. My local gaming center is having one and top3/4 will get sponsored, I want to be able to use everything I can to win that sponsorship so I can even go to EVO. I really need you guys's help with these, if you can Tweet to Mr. Wizard and get a pre set with Power Luma Shot in it I would really appreciate it. This would be the only pre set I need.

3231

Power Luma Shot, Shooting Star Bit, Launch Star Attack, Gravitational Pull.

This is the only pre set I need to be included, we have 10 pre sets for Rosalina and Luma, please let me have at least 1 to use if I need it. I'm really counting on the rest of you to help out Rosalina and Luma~

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

What attitude? I'm here talking like a normal person. Who are you again? Someone trying to make things worse when I'm trying to have a legitimate conversation? Do I need the block button?

You can do as you wish I'm nobody. I'm sorry if I took your post wrong but you kinda said that these boards are sabotaging you.

We're unable to include everyone's customs. You yourself said it's for variety. Are we trying to optimize Rosalina's customs? Add variety? Or cater to your whims?

I'm pretty much done with this though as I said before I don't decide anything nor am I anyone.

 

[Xaltis]

Well as one of the top Rosy players who has a chance to earn a sponsorship to EVO from my gaming center, I'd think the people on the boards would be a little understanding and willing to help me out. I just expect people to be nice, and hope I'm not wrong. 1/10 isn't that big a deal for pre sets. I take up 1 spot, that's it.

 

[DisidisiD]

We have at least one set to cover launch star attack, right? We could try to over write that one and put this one, as it also includes launch star attack. It adds variety without any major losses.

 

[Zonderion]

I don't see what the big deal is. Everyone else gets a type of custom that at least is close to what their play style is. Why is it so detrimental to exclude this other custom? Because it can limit the development of Rosalina's metagame. I don't see how including is a bad thing. Can someone explain that?

 

[Xaltis]

I don't see what the big deal is. Everyone else gets a type of custom that at least is close to what their play style is. Why is it so detrimental to exclude this other custom? Because it can limit the development of Rosalina's metagame. I don't see how including is a bad thing. Can someone explain that?

There is no reason to not have it, so with that said, can we all start tweeting the EVO guy and tell him to change Rosalina's pre sets to include the one I posted please??

 

[Zonderion]

There is no reason to not have it, so with that said, can we all start tweeting the EVO guy and tell him to change Rosalina's pre sets to include the one I posted please??

I will! No one has yet given even a good reason not to have it. The "usefulness" of the move is irrelevant. If we, as Rosalina Mains, want to develop her metagame, we shouldn't disregard moves just because we think we haven't found anything useful, less than 6 months after release.

@evo2k @EvilMrWizard Rosalina should have the custom set 3231 in place of her last custom. #RepresentAllSmash4Customs

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Just to note, side 2 is Floaty bit. Shooting is 3.

 

[Xaltis]

Just to note, side 2 is Floaty bit. Shooting is 3.

Oh okay, I made sure to list the exact names of the moves too in my tweet, so I think it should be fine. But others should still tweet to the EVO guy for this. Let's work together!

 

[MarioMeteor]

Does Guardian Luma beat Spin Dash?

 

[Mondrae205]

Does Guardian Luma beat Spin Dash?

Guardian luma beats everything since luma is invincible. As long as they don't hit you or Luma before the active frames you will be safe.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Guardian luma beats everything since luma is invincible. As long as they don't hit you or Luma before the active frames you will be safe.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Just be aware that Guardian Luma won't protect Rosalina's back if the Luma is in front of her.

 

[vegeta18]

i like floaty star bits and guardian luma together. Often i use floaty star bits on mu`s against very rush down oriented characters, who often don`thave much of a zoning game. Ex. Cpt falcon, possibly sheik(if guardian luma can handle the needles), and maybe against a more aggressive sonic. I think floaty and guardian luima work well at creating a strong wall and making it even tougher to get inside of luma`s range. mixing these moves with luma warp make some interesting mind games as well. I`d like to see a 2223 or a 2213 build in the future.

Also random little thing, i feel like guardian luma works very well off of the stage as well, if your mess up a down air, or opponent tries to attack you first, guardian luma is a nice way to push them out of your space.

 

[DisidisiD]

i like floaty star bits and guardian luma together. Often i use floaty star bits on mu`s against very rush down oriented characters, who often don`thave much of a zoning game. Ex. Cpt falcon, possibly sheik(if guardian luma can handle the needles), and maybe against a more aggressive sonic. I think floaty and guardian luima work well at creating a strong wall and making it even tougher to get inside of luma`s range. mixing these moves with luma warp make some interesting mind games as well. I`d like to see a 2223 or a 2213 build in the future.

Also random little thing, i feel like guardian luma works very well off of the stage as well, if your mess up a down air, or opponent tries to attack you first, guardian luma is a nice way to push them out of your space.

I agree with a lot of this post. One thing I have to say, however, is that, in the sonic match up, when ever I use GL they always slip under the unprotected area when spin dashing. Is there a way to fix this or is this just a problem we'll have in this match up?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I agree with a lot of this post. One thing I have to say, however, is that, in the sonic match up, when ever I use GL they always slip under the unprotected area when spin dashing. Is there a way to fix this or is this just a problem we'll have in this match up?

Chances are, this is just something that Rosalina users will have to be weary of, if they can't position the Luma at a low enough level to stop Sonic's approaches.

 

[Zonderion]

I agree with a lot of this post. One thing I have to say, however, is that, in the sonic match up, when ever I use GL they always slip under the unprotected area when spin dashing. Is there a way to fix this or is this just a problem we'll have in this match up?

I do know that crouching will make Luma closer to the ground, although there is a little delay. This should prevent Sonic from getting underneath if you activate GL while crouching. Someone may need to verify this though...

 

[DisidisiD]

I do know that crouching will make Luma closer to the ground, although there is a little delay. This should prevent Sonic from getting underneath if you activate GL while crouching. Someone may need to verify this though...

I've tried it multiple times. Sadly, luma will do the same height for GL even if you have her go down with crouch. It's really quite annoying. What customs are good against Sonic. I'm torn between all three star bits. They all have usages. I would probably choose floaty if it had a bit less start up. It takes FOREVER to come out and by the time it does, I'm being comboed. Also, another question about the sonic match up: how important do you think luma is and what role does he/she/it play in the match up?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I've tried it multiple times. Sadly, luma will do the same height for GL even if you have her go down with crouch. It's really quite annoying. What customs are good against Sonic. I'm torn between all three star bits. They all have usages. I would probably choose floaty if it had a bit less start up. It takes FOREVER to come out and by the time it does, I'm being comboed. Also, another question about the sonic match up: how important do you think luma is and what role does he/she/it play in the match up?

In a couple more days will be Sonic's discussion period. Maybe some questions will be answered during that time.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I've been playing with it, and Guardian Luma is absolutely disgusting. Even with melee characters like Marth and Ike, I don't see a reason not use it. Also, am I the only one who likes Launch Star Plus?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I've been playing with it, and Guardian Luma is absolutely disgusting. Even with melee characters like Marth and Ike, I don't see a reason not use it. Also, am I the only one who likes Launch Star Plus?

Well, given that Gravitational Pull is literally worthless against anyone without a projectile and its only competition on that front is Catch & Release...yeah, not hard to see why. Although I have a hard time figuring out how to properly use it myself. (It would help if anyone knew the frame data for when Luma becomes invincible.)

Dabuz likes Launch Star Plus, I think. It's less flexible and I'm not entirely on board with it for that reason alone, but it's bloody fast and harder to challenge because of it.

 

[Lavani]

(It would help if anyone knew the frame data for when Luma becomes invincible.)

Master Core says 2-36F (unk_210 is an invincibility toggle)

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Master Core says 2-36F (unk_210 is an invincibility toggle)

Huh, that's faster than I thought. Does the hitbox data match up exactly to the invincibility frames? If so it hangs around for quite a long time.

Off topic, I love the Mythbuster Luma avatar.

 

[Lavani]

Huh, that's faster than I thought. Does the hitbox data match up exactly to the invincibility frames? If so it hangs around for quite a long time.

Active frames are 5-35F, so the invincibility starts a tad earlier and ends a tad later. I'm not sure what the move's total commit time is, though.

Off topic, I love the Mythbuster Luma avatar.

It felt like a good choice considering my typical post content.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

It felt like a good choice considering my typical post content.

I was considering a Luma-shaped salt shaker to poke fun at how everyone hates Luma (there's a sitcom title), but my Photoshop skills aren't up to par.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Well, given that Gravitational Pull is literally worthless against anyone without a projectile and its only competition on that front is Catch & Release...yeah, not hard to see why. Although I have a hard time figuring out how to properly use it myself. (It would help if anyone knew the frame data for when Luma becomes invincible.)

Dabuz likes Launch Star Plus, I think. It's less flexible and I'm not entirely on board with it for that reason alone, but it's bloody fast and harder to challenge because of it.

Just the sheer fact that you can throw out a completely safe hitbox (that does 3-5%) that aids recovery and has Luma invincible is ridic. I've even gimped a few people with it. With LS Plus and Guardian Luma together, it alleviates Rosalina's main recovery issue. Usually, if Rosalina is facing the ledge backwards, she's ****ed, but with B-Reversed G. Luma and LS Plus, her recovery becomes godlike (no pun intended). Luma Warp is pretty gross, too. Having a guaranteed attack of your choice if it lands is pretty sexy.

 

[DisidisiD]

Ive begun using Launch star plus more often because it's so much easier for placing luma in just the right way with the jab desync. The landing lag is immense and, in this case, that's great.