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Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

akf09

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
82
Location
Eagle, Idaho
@ RoA_Zam RoA_Zam while i do feel that the outiline is a good idea to indicate stock, maybe it should just be an option and not always on. because like you said it will in itself look ugly to have a colored boarder around your character and our should be able to look at your stocks while you are on the respawn platform. also i think that the respawn should be in the middle of the stage like som1 else recently said and that the respawn should be slowwer and the respawn invinciility should be longer. some of my friends have complained that the respawn invincibility is a bit short
 

likiji123

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
319
Location
Australia
NNID
Likiji123
3DS FC
2964-9225-5942
What kind of laptop specs do you have?
I'm running it on a win8 Dell with intel core i7 with no problems whatsoever.
Windows 7

Processor - Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T5500 @ 1.66GHz 1.67GHz
Installed memory (RAM) - 3.00GB
System type - 32 bit
 

RoA_Zam

Fire Lion
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
532
Location
Fire Capitol
NNID
Unique
I'm so torn between maining Kragg and Zetterburn already. I can space Kragg fair like a monster and basically turn Kragg into jigglypuff offstage but zetterburn is the most balanced character in my opinion. His combo's are the most fun and enjoyable.

Also CPU DI makes playing CPU's much more fun and slightly more challenging. Much needed!

EDIT:

12/12 I will be streaming periodically throughout the day. I'm going to be playing alone and just showcasing stuff about the game. Anyone who wants to watch or come in and ask questions is more than welcome to!

I'll post again once I wake up to say when i've started streaming + the link and such.

Woo!
 
Last edited:

CaptainCrisb

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
486
@ CaptainCrisb CaptainCrisb

  • What Single Player bug are you talking about? Might be an easy fix, just not sure of the reference :)
There's a bug where you as soon as you get rid of a computer, you press enter and you can go into the match by yourself, it really doesn't do much but yeah XD
 
Last edited:

KrozoMagnus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
24
@ 4nace 4nace Just applied for play testing yesterday. Showed some of my friends/brother who are also into smash. We are super hyped. (Pixel art for the win!!!) I would love to contribute to the development of this game!
 

RoA_Zam

Fire Lion
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
532
Location
Fire Capitol
NNID
Unique
Last edited:

ItsRainingGravy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
763
Location
Alabama
Switch FC
SW-5960-2538-9300
@ 4nace 4nace

Hello everyone! Firstly, I would like to thank 4nace and the Rivals of Aether team for accepting me into the playtesting group! Unfortunately, I am leaving on a trip for about 3 weeks soon (until New Years), so I won't be able to provide feedback during this time. However, for the past few days, I have been working on something else in the meantime. A comprehensive guide for all of the characters! With the data provided in this guide, I hope that it sheds some light in regards to character strengths and flaws, in attempt to provide more clarity in concerns to how to balance the characters in the future. So with this in mind, these are my notes so far:



Jab Combo: 4%, 4%, 6% (14% total)
Range: Low
Speed: High
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Spacing/Mild Frame Trapping
Unique 1: Second hit of jab has little endlag, which could be followed up by a Dtilt instead of the 3rd hit of jab.
Unique 2: Jab 1 and Jab 2 don't suffer stun from an opponent's successful parry, as long as you don't use Jab 3.
Unique 3: Has a huge problem against DI, and opponents can easily get out of the 2nd-3rd hits of the combo.

Ftilt: 5%, 5% (10% total)
Range: Mid
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Footsies
Unique: Great hitbox covering above him.

Fsmash: 4%, 8% (12% total uncharged)
Charged: 6%, 12% (18% total charged)
Range: High
Speed: High
Endlag: High
KB Type: KO Move
Unique 1: Moves Zetterburn forward.
Unique 2: Fire increases knockback and adds +10% damage.

Dtilt: 9%
Range: Mid
Speed: High
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Footsies

Dsmash: 5%, 8% (13% total uncharged)
Charged: 7%, 12% (19% total charged)
Range: Mid
Speed: High
Endlag: High
KB Type: KO Move
Unique 1: Has a large hitbox behind Zetterburn. Might be a little too good?
Unique 2: Fire increases knockback and adds +10% damage.

Utilt: 10% front hitbox, 11% rear hitbox
Range: Low
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Juggling
Unique: Has a great hitbox covering Zetterburn.

Usmash: 7% uncharged, 10% max charge
Range: Low
Speed: Mid
Endlag: High
Unique 1: You can DCUS (Dash Cancel Up Smash) with this move, extending its range exponentially.
Unique 2: Fire increases knockback and adds +10% damage.

Dash Attack: 11% sweetspot, 6% sourspot
Range: Low
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Combos
Unique: Can easily lead into a free Dtilt, though has a large problem against crouch canceling.

---

Nair: 3%, 3%, 5% (11% total)
Range: Low
Speed: High
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Combos
Unique: All hits reliably connect together.

Fair: 15% close, 10% far, 7% sourspot
Range: Mid
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Low
KB Type: KO Move (close hitbox)

Bair: 3%
Range: Low
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Combos/Frame Trapping
Unique 1: Burns the opponent, causing an additional 5% damage max.
Unique 2: Can easily be followed up by a DCUS Usmash, or other smashes leading to a free hit/KO. Might be too good.

Uair: 7% sourspot, 14% sweetspot
Range: Mid
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Juggling (sourspot)/KO Move (sweetspot)
Unique: You are usually going to hit with the sourspot instead of the sweetspot.

Dair: 15%
Range: Low
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Meteor
Unique: Causes a groundbounce against opponents on the stage, leading into combos.

---

Neutral Special: 2% uncharged, 8% max charge
Range: Low (Mid when charged)
Speed: High
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Combos (uncharged)/KO Move (max charge)
Unique 1: You can jump cancel out of this attack after the explosion.
Unique 2: Burns the opponent, causing an additional 5% damage max.

Side Special: 4% physical hit, 4% projectile hit (8% total)
Unique 1: Burns the opponent, causing an additional 5% damage max.
Unique 2: Can be negated by other moves, such as jabs or other projectiles.

Up Special: 1%x7 multi-hits, 8% final hit (12% total)
Unique 1: Recovery move, thus putting you into the helpless falling state.
Unique 2: You can airdodge out of this move for mixups.
Unique 3: Burns the opponent, causing an additional 5% damage max.

Down Special: 2% air hit, 8% ground hit (10% total)
Unique 1: Leaves a fire trail on the ground.
Unique 2: Burns the opponent, causing an additional 5% damage max.
Average Minimal Damage Output:
Jab: 14%
Ftilt: 5%
Fsmash: 12%
Fire Fsmash: 22%
Dtilt: 9%
Dsmash: 13%
Fire Dsmash: 23%
Utilt: 10%
Usmash: 7%
Fire Usmash: 17%
Dash Attack: 11%
Nair: 11%
Fair: 15%
Bair: 8% (including burn effect)
Uair: 7%
Dair: 15%
Neutral S: 8%
Side S: 9%
Up S: (not included)
Down S: 8%
Fire Trail: 5%

AMDO: 229% total divided by 20 variables = ~11.45% damage per hit.

---

Average Footsie Reliability:
Attack/Range/Speed/Endlag
Jab: Low High Low
Ftilt: Mid Mid Low
FS: High High High
Dtilt: Mid High Mid
DS: Mid High High
Utilt: Low Mid Low
US: Low Mid High
DA: Low Mid Mid
Nair: Low High Low
Fair: Mid Mid Low
Bair: Low Mid Low
Uair: Mid Mid Low
Dair: Low Mid Mid

Range: -7 Low, 5 Mid, +1 High = -6
Speed: 0 Low, 8 Mid, +5 High = +5
Endlag: +6 Low, 4 Mid, -3 High = +3
Overall: +2


Jab Combo: 3%, 4%, 9% (13% total)
Range: Low
Speed: High
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Combos
Unique 1: Second hit of jab has little endlag, though it isn't good enough for frame trapping into a Dtilt. Maybe increase the IASA on Jab 2 so that this could happen?
Unique 2: Jab 1 and Jab 2 don't suffer stun from an opponent's successful parry, as long as you don't use Jab 3.
Unique 3: Has a huge problem against DI, and opponents can easily get out of the 2nd-3rd hits of the combo.

Ftilt: 3%x3 multi-hits (9% total)
Range: Mid
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Combos
Unique: Moves Wrastor slightly forward.

Fsmash: 12% sweet, 7% sour uncharged.
Charged: 18% sweet, 10% sour charged.
Range: High
Speed: Low
Endlag: High
KB Type: KO Move
Unique: Can only be done in the air, and you can only fully charge this once in the air.

Dtilt: 7%
Range: Mid
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Combos

Dsmash: 7% uncharged, 10% max charge.
Range: High
Speed: Low
Endlag: High (when not jump canceled)
KB Type: Combos/KO Move
Unique 1: Can be jump canceled, adding combo and feinting opportunities.
Unique 2: Can only be done in the air, and you can only fully charge this once in the air.

Utilt: 10%
Range: Mid
Speed: Low
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: KO Move
Unique: Solid anti-air move.

Usmash: 7% sour, 10% sweet uncharged.
Charged: 10% sour, 15% sweet max charge.
Range: High
Speed: Low
Endlag: High
KB Type: KO Move
Unique: Can only be done in the air, and you can only fully charge this move once in the air.

Dash Attack: 6%
Range: High
Speed: High
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Combos
Unique 1: Can be used to travel off of the stage/ledge.
Unique 2: Distance increases when in the path of his own wind current.

---

Nair: 4%
Range: Mid
Speed: High
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Combos
Unique: Has a lingering hitbox.

Fair: 5%
Range: High
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Combos

Bair: 4%
Range: Mid
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Combos
Unique: Keeps opponent close to Wrastor.

Uair: 6%
Range: High
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Juggling
Unique: Has an amazing hitbox and is just an incredibly solid move overall.

Dair: 6%
Range: High
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Combos

---

Neutral Special: 1%x11 multihit (11% total...durr)
Unique 1: Recovery move, thus putting you into the helpless falling state.
Unique 2: Hold the special button to rise into the air.
Unique 3: You can fastfall with this attack. Useful for surprises.
Unique 4: Very good at negating projectile attacks.

Side Special: 5% projectile
Unique 1: Creates a wind current that increases Wrastor's overall mobility.
Unique 2: Extends the range of Dash Attack and Down Special.
Unique 3: Negates all other projectiles and goes through walls/attacks/etc.
Unique 4: Never dissipates. Meaning that moves that normally negate projectiles won't negate this projectile.

Up Special: 10% sweetspot, 7% sourspot, 5% very late sourspot
Range: High
Speed: High
Endlag: High
KB Type: KO Move
Unique: Recovery move, thus putting you into the helpless falling state.

Down Special: 10%
Range: High
Speed: Low
Endlag: High
KB Type: Combos
Unique 1: Distance increases when in the path of his own wind current.
Unique 2: Kind of a bad move? All of its footsie stats are pretty terrible besides range. Might need a small buff. Such as being able to negate projectiles and having a bit more damage.
Average Minimal Damage Output:
Jab: 13%
Ftilt: 9%
Fsmash: 7%
Dtilt: 7%
Dsmash: 7%
Utilt: 10%
Usmash: 7%
Dash Attack: 6%
Nair: 4%
Fair: 5%
Bair: 4%
Uair: 6%
Dair: 6%
Neutral S: 11%
Side S: 5%
Up S: 10%
Down S: 10%

AMDO: 127% total divided by 17 variables = ~7.470588235294118% damage per hit.

---

Average Footsie Reliability:
Attack/Range/Speed/Endlag
Jab: Low High Mid
Ftilt: Mid Mid Mid
FS: High Low High
Dtilt: Mid Mid Mid
DS: High Low Mid (Mid Endlag because you can jump cancel it)
Utilt: Mid Low Mid
US: High Low High
DA: High High Mid
Nair: Mid High Low
Fair: High Mid Low
Bair: Mid Mid Low
Uair: High Mid Low
Dair: High Mid Low

Range: -1 Low, 5 Mid, +7 High = +6
Speed: -4 Low, 6 Mid, +3 High = -1
Endlag: +5 Low, 6 Mid, -2 High = +3
Overall: +8


Jab Combo: 4%, 4%, 6% (14% total)
Range: Mid
Speed: High
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Spacing/Frame Trapping
Unique 1: Second hit of jab has little endlag and pops the opponent up slightly, making it absolutely amazing to follow up with a Dtilt or Nair. You can even link it into another Jab 1 -> Jab 2 string, repeating the process. Easily the best jab in the game so far.
Unique 2: Jab 1 and Jab 2 don't suffer stun from an opponent's successful parry, as long as you don't use Jab 3.

Ftilt: 10%
Range: High
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Footsies
Unique: Moves Kragg forward.

Fsmash: 10% uncharged, 15% max charge.
Range: Mid
Speed: Low
Endlag: High
KB Type: KO Move
Unique: Moves Kragg forward.

Dtilt: 7%
Range: Mid
Speed: High
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Footsies/Frame Trapping
Unique: Sends rock chunks at a diagonal angle.

Dsmash: 10% uncharged, 15% max charge.
Range: Low
Speed: Low
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: KO Move
Unique 1: Has a hitbox behind Kragg.
Unique 2: Sends rock chunks at a diagonal angle.

Utilt: 10%
Range: High
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Juggling
Unique: Has a 2% damage bonus hitbox behind Kragg. Useful for surprises, linking into the 10% hit, and hits instantly.

Usmash: 10% uncharged, 15% max charge.
Range: High
Speed: Low
Endlag: High
KB Type: KO Move

Dash Attack: 10%
Range: Mid
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Spacing?
Unique: Makes Kragg travel a fair distance and has some knockback, but it doesn't really seem to serve much of a use. If it had a bit more IASA frames (interrupted as soon as frames) at the end of the move, it will be much more useful for allowing Kragg to approach his opponents and then follow up with another attack. Which would be great since Kragg has some trouble approaching.

---

Nair: 3%x4 multi-hits (12% total)
Range: Mid
Speed: High
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Combos
Unique: Great move overall.


Fair: 10%
Range: High
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: KO Move
Unique: Kragg's body doesn't have a hitbox. (Which is fine, just pointing that out)

Bair: 10%
Range: Mid
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Spacing
Unique: Extends Kragg's back slightly during the attack.

Uair: 11%
Range: Mid
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Juggling/KO Move
Unique: ...nothing really. I just love this move, lol

Dair: 11%
Range: Low
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Meteor
Unique: Causes a groundbounce against opponents on the stage, leading to combos.

---

Neutral Special: 8% for the rock throw projectile, 4% (x4) for individual rock chunk projectiles. Usually does 12%.
Unique 1: Kragg can instantly destroy the rocks. Opponents can't, however.
Unique 2: Negates projectiles and blocks opponents from moving.
Unique 3: This is the best move in the entire game lol. I will explain why later. XD

Side Special: 4% per hit.
Unique 1: Grants Kragg armor which he cannot be hit out of.
Unique 2: Is faster in the air. You should always shorthop before using this move because of this.
Unique 3: Additionally, you can somewhat use this to help you recover in the air, and it doesn't put you into the helpless falling state.

Up Special: 8%
Unique 1: Creates a platform which Kragg can stand above. Can only have 1 on the stage at a time.
Unique 2: You cannot use Up Special to cancel another Up Special without touching solid ground first, or by destroying the previous platform you created.
Unique 3: You can wallbounce off of this platform.
Unique 4: Negates projectiles and blocks opponents from moving.
Unique 5: This is the only recovery move that doesn't put you into the helpless falling state.

Down Special: 2%, 4%, 10% projectiles (16% total)
Unique 1: Negates other projectiles.
Unique 2: Tracks the ground. In other words, if you use this on the edge of a platform, it will continue to travel across the ground below.
Average Minimal Damage Output:
Jab: 14%
Ftilt: 10%
Fsmash: 10%
Dtilt: 7%
Dsmash: 10%
Utilt: 10%
Usmash: 10%
Dash Attack: 10%
Nair: 12%
Fair: 10%
Bair: 10%
Uair: 11%
Dair: 11%
Neutral S: 8%
Rock Chunks: 12%
Side S: (not included)
Up S: 8%
Down S: 10%

AMDO: 173% total divided by 17 variables = ~10.17647058823529% damage per hit.

---

Average Footsie Reliability:
Attack/Range/Speed/Endlag
Jab: Mid High Mid
Ftilt: High Mid Low
FS: Mid Low High
Dtilt: Mid High Low
DS: Low Low Mid
Utilt: High Mid Mid
US: High Low High
DA: Mid Mid Low
Nair: Mid High Low
Fair: High Mid Mid
Bair: Mid Mid Mid
Uair: Mid Mid Mid
Dair: Low Mid Mid

Range: -2 Low, 7 Mid, +4 High = +2
Speed: -3 Low, 7 Mid, +3 High = 0
Endlag: +4 Low, 7 Mid, -2 High = +2
Overall: +4


Jab Combo: 4%, 4%, 6% (14% total)
Range: Low
Speed: High
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Spacing/Frame Trapping
Unique 1: This move is very useful for frame trapping due to how low the endlag on his Jab 1 and Jab 2 are, in conjunction with how fast his Dtilt and Ftilt are. You can even link another Jab 1 -> Jab 2 string after the first one. Not as good as Kragg's in regards to frame advantage after Jab 2, as well as having less range than Kragg's, though Orcane's jab is faster in regards to activation frames. Making it the second best jab in the game.
Unique 2: Jab 1 and Jab 2 don't suffer stun from an opponent's successful parry, as long as you don't use Jab 3.

Ftilt: 9%
Range: Mid
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Footsies

Fsmash: 8% uncharged, 12% max.
W/Puddle: 14% uncharged, 21% max.
Range: Low
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: KO Move
Unique 1: Range increases from Low to High when standing on/passing his own puddle.
Unique 2: You can pivot and slide with this attack during a dash by turning around and then using it.

Dtilt: 6%
Range: Mid
Speed: High
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Combos
Unique: This move is a bit too good considering how fast it is, and how you can link into it from a Jab 1 or Jab 2. Reducing the damage slightly to 4% or 5% would reduce Orcane's damage potential slightly throughout the match to better compensate the overall utility and effectiveness of this move. I would say 5% simply because the number sounds nicer in my head.

Dsmash: 8% uncharged, 14% max charge. (also applies to puddle variation)
Range: Low
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: KO Move
Unique 1: Has a hitbox behind Orcane.
Unique 2: Hitbox size increases when standing on a puddle.
Unique 3: You can pivot and slide with this attack during a dash by turning around and then using it.

Utilt: 3% sour, 5% sweet
Range: Low
Speed: High
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Juggle
Unique: This move looks silly lol

Usmash: 8% uncharged, 12% max charge.
W/Puddle: 14% uncharged, 21% max charge.
Range: Low
Speed: Low
Endlag: High
KB Type: KO Move
Unique 1: This thing has ABSURD KO potential, though it's probably fine due to the drawbacks it has despite the advantages of the next notes.
Unique 2: Range increases from Low to Mid when standing on/passing his own puddle.
Unique 3: You can pivot and slide with this attack during a dash by turning around and then using it.

Dash Attack: 6%
Range: Mid
Speed: High
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Combos
Unique: Mid range because this move is crazy fast and covers a lot of ground, despite not having an extended hitbox.

---

Nair: 7%
Range: Low
Speed: High
Endlag: Low
KB Type: Combos
Unique: I swear this guy is like a combination of Sonic the Hedgehog and Ivysaur lol.

Fair: 3%x6 multi-hits = 18% total. (usually does 9%)
Range: High
Speed: High
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Combos/Harassing the Opponent/Retreating
Unique 1: Has a bonus 8% damage hitbox on his back.
Unique 2: You can control how far Orcane flies backwards by holding forward or back.
Unique 3: Because of the bubbles, there are a ton of lingering hitboxes on this move.

Bair: 4% sourspot, 7% sweetspot (Usually does 11% damage)
Range: High
Speed: Mid
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Spacing/Edgeguarding

Uair: 6% falling sourspot, 11% aerial sweetspot
Range: Low
Speed: Mid
Endlag: High
KB Type: Spacing (falling sourspot)/KO move (aerial sweetspot)
Unique: Very rarely, you can hit with both hitboxes of this move, thus doing 17% damage.

Dair: 2%x4 multi-hits (8% total)
Range: Low
Speed: High
Endlag: Mid
KB Type: Combos/Semi-Spike

---

Neutral Special: 6%
Unique 1: Creates a puddle.
Unique 2: Can be negated by other moves, such as jabs or other projectiles.

Side Special: 8% normal, 14% with a puddle.
Unique: Recovery move, thus putting you into the helpless falling state.

Up Special: 12%
Unique 1: Teleports to the puddle you created.
Unique 2: Recovery move, thus putting you into the helpless falling state.
Unique 3: Creates another puddle if used on the ground.
Unique 4: Cannot be used in the air unless you have a puddle on the ground.
Unique 5: Has a ton of knockback, making it an excellent KO Move.

Down Special: 3%x8 multi-hits = 24% total. (usually does 12-16%)
Unique 1: If you do not have a puddle on the ground, shoots a 6% damage projectile straight down that creates a puddle.
Unique 2: If you do have a puddle on the ground, creates a ton of bubbles that does what the attack says. The bubbles of this attack might need to be nerfed from 3% damage down to 2% due to how easy it is to create combos and mess with your opponents.
Average Minimal Damage Output:
Jab: 14%
Ftilt: 9%
Fsmash: 8%
Puddle Fsmash: 14%
Dtilt: 6%
Dsmash: 8%
Puddle Dsmash: 8%
Utilt: 4% (3%-5%)
Usmash: 8%
Puddle Usmash: 14%
Dash Attack: 6%
Nair: 7%
Fair 1: 9% (on average)
Fair 2: 8%
Bair: 11%
Uair 1: 6%
Uair 2: 11%
Dair: 8%
Neutral S: 6%
Side S1: 8%
Side S2: 14%
Up S: 12%
Down S: 12% (on average)

AMDO: 211% total divided by 23 variables = ~9.173913043478261% damage per hit.

---

Average Footsie Reliability:
Attack/Range/Speed/Endlag
Jab: Low High Mid
Ftilt: Mid Mid Mid
FS: Mid Mid Mid (Mid Range because of Puddles)
Dtilt: Mid High Low
DS: Low Mid Mid
Utilt: Low High Mid
US: Low Low High (Range stays Low due to angle of attack)
DA: Mid High Low
Nair: Low High Low
Fair: High High Mid
Bair: High Mid Mid
Uair: Low Mid High
Dair: Low High Mid

Range: -7 Low, 4 Mid, +2 High = -5
Speed: -1 Low, 5 Mid, +7 High = +6
Endlag: +3 Low, 8 Mid, -2 High = +1
Overall: +2
Tiered Average Minimal Damage Output:
1. Zetterburn: ~11.45% damage per hit.
2. Kragg: ~10.17647058823529% damage per hit.
3. Orcane: ~9.173913043478261% damage per hit.
4. Wrastor: ~7.470588235294118% damage per hit.

Tiered Footsie Reliability by Range:
1. Wrastor: -1 Low, 5 Mid, +7 High = +6
2. Kragg: -2 Low, 7 Mid, +4 High = +2
3. Orcane: -7 Low, 4 Mid, +2 High = -5
4. Zetterburn: -7 Low, 5 Mid, +1 High = -6

Tiered Footsie Reliability by Speed:
1. Orcane: -1 Low, 5 Mid, +7 High = +6
2. Zetterburn: 0 Low, 8 Mid, +5 High = +5
3. Kragg: -3 Low, 7 Mid, +3 High = 0
4. Wrastor: -4 Low, 6 Mid, +3 High = -1

Tiered Footsie Reliability by Endlag:
1. Zetterburn: +6 Low, 4 Mid, -3 High = +3
1. Wrastor: +5 Low, 6 Mid, -2 High = +3
2. Kragg: +4 Low, 7 Mid, -2 High = +2
3. Orcane: +3 Low, 8 Mid, -2 High = +1

Tiered Footsie Reliability Overall:
1. Wrastor: +8
2. Kragg: +4
3. Orcane: +2
3. Zetterburn: +2
Tiered Ground Movement Speed:
1. Wrastor (with Wind Current)
2. Orcane
3. Zetterburn
4. Kragg
5. Wrastor (w/o Wind Current)

Tiered Aerial Horizontal Movement Speed:
1. Wrastor
2. Orcane
2. Zetterburn
3. Kragg

Tiered Jump Vertical Height (does not factor in multiple air jumps, just the height they gain):
1. Kragg
2. Zetterburn
3. Orcane
4. Wrastor

Tiered Character Weight:
1. Zetterburn/Kragg/Orcane
2. Wrastor (lol)

Character Hurtbox Size:
1. Kragg (lol)
2. Zetterburn/Wrastor/Orcane (Orcane's hurtbox is just flipped 90 degrees compared to the other two)

I will post my thoughts on what I wish to be changed soon. Stay tuned!
 
Last edited:

ItsRainingGravy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
763
Location
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@ 4nace 4nace

Added two new sections to my above post. The first one basically just organizes some data from the previous sections, while the second one goes over basic character stats and attributes.

Anywho, here are my recommended changes:


General:
- Fixing how you can DI out of certain Jab combos, in particular Zetterburn and Wrastor. You can just hold back and escape the combo for these two characters. Kragg and Orcane might not need any changes simply because their Jabs are much better, and link together much more reliably.
- Fixing how you can crouch cancel to almost completely negate any sort of knockback from dash attacks. This is prominent across the board, and makes dash attacks incredibly unsafe.
- If you use Jab 1 or Jab 2 on a parry, and don't use Jab 3, you don't suffer any additional endlag and don't go into the stunned animation. Not really a problem because the opponent who parried still obtains invincibility frames to punish the opponent. It makes it to where characters have an option to poke a parrying opponent with less risk, though they can still be punished with good timing. You don't have to fix this; just thought I would point it out, lol. Though it can be patched if it somehow causes a problem. But for now I doubt it.

Zetterburn:
- His damage output is slightly too much for the amount of KO Potential his smash attacks have against burned opponents. Reducing the 10% bonus hitting a burned opponent down to 7-8% should alleviate this a little bit, as it doesn't mess with his gameplan and just makes him work a little bit more to finish his opponents off. Knockback should still stay the same though.
- It would be nice if Jab 1 had the same amount of IASA frames as Jab 2 does (or closer to it anyways), to make it easier to link Jab 1 -> Dtilt.

Wrastor:
- Increasing IASA frames on Jab 2 so that it can somewhat reliably link into Dtilt would be nice. Currently he has the worst Jab in terms of frame trapping, so a small buff would be nice here.
- Buffing Down B. Right now it doesn't seem to do much, effectively anyways. Low startup speed with high endlag on wiff and a linear travel path, with a small hitbox. Not to mention opponents can DI away from potential follow-ups even if you do land the move. Slightly more damage to increase the reward, as well as a slightly improved hitbox that can plow through projectiles would make this move better.

Kragg:
- His Jab 2 is absolutely incredible, though it probably doesn't need a nerf. At least, not yet anyways. Currently you can almost always follow it up with a Dtilt or Nair, or even another Jab Combo (but not for forever because of DI). Though these options don't add much more damage besides Nair. I think his amazing Jab is a great character trait for him, and fits his big bulky powerhouse image. However, if this move becomes a problem in the future, I suggest increasing the amount of IASA on Jab 2 by a slight amount.
- Buffing Dash Attack slightly. Maybe about a few extra frames of IASA at the end of it so that it can better link into Dtilt or other moves, to help improve his ability to approach opponents. If you do this, you can nerf Dash Attack's damage in compensation, as linking Dash Attack into other attacks should be rewarded by gaining ground and spacing as opposed to raw damage.
- Currently, you can create infinite blocks with two Kraggs by stealing the other Kragg's block and having him spawn a new one after each time you steal it. By doing this, you can literally cover the screen with blocks after a few minutes. Fun thing though? It doesn't cause any significant amount of lag even if you have 50 or so blocks on the screen, or at least from what I have noticed anyways. What I would like to say is this: PLEASE DON'T PATCH THIS unless it becomes a huge problem somehow. Because it is incredibly fun to make MineCraft fortresses with two or more Kraggs. XD And it could lead to people having more interest and fun in the game. So, unless there is a gamebreaking bug of sorts involving this, I would say it is fine to keep it as you can't really abuse this in an actual competitive match, lol

Orcane
- Despite his relatively low damage output, I feel as though the damage on two of his moves should be toned down slightly. Dtilt and Down Special in particular. My reasons behind this are that while his damage is slightly lower (not as low as Wrastor however), he feels overly compensated due to three reasons: 1) The general safeness of his moves. 2) His overall mobility and attack speed. 3) Unpredictability due to how his moveset flows together. With these three things combined, he seems to have an easier time racking up damage than he should, and this becomes a slight problem with how effective his KO moves are despite how slow they are (because you can pivot slide with them and they have amazing range/KO Potential with puddles). To make this not feel as bad in a match, I suggest toning down the damage of his especially safe moves. Dtilt because it is one of the best tilts in the entire game and is incredibly safe, and Down B because it does quite a bit of damage and is virtually unpunishable if used correctly. Only very small changes need to be made for now. Dtilt should do about 5% instead of 6%, and Down Special bubbles should do 2% each instead of 3% each (Fair bubbles can still do 3% each however). With those two changes in place, I feel as though fighting against Orcane would be slightly easier and a bit more fun.
- Another move's damage you could tone down a bit is Neutral Special and Aerial Down Special (the water droplet), reducing the damage from 6% to 5%. But I would say to hold off on that for now unless Orcane becomes a problem in the future. If used correctly, it is relatively unsafe and unpunishable like Dtilt and Down Special, but unlike the other two it is harder to aim and is more punishable if used incorrectly. So for now it is fine.


My overall thoughts on this game are incredibly positive, and the character balance is really well done. Although I wasn't able to playtest too much before my trip, I would say that at least for right now, every character has a fighting chance and all are almost even in terms of overall competitive potential. A few problems here and there, but this is to be expected from an alpha build of the game. And this game will only continue to improve over time. Well done, 4nace! (And the rest of the Rise of Aether team). Whenever I get back from my trip, I plan on playtesting this game a lot more. The next thing I am probably going to do is character-specific matchup data and match analysis's.

EDIT: Made a fix where I incorrectly said "reducing IASA" when I meant "increasing IASA". lol
 
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JCOnyx

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http://rivals-of-aether.wikia.com/wiki/Rivals_of_Aether_Wiki

Updating a wiki might be a good way to keep track of stuff, and still have discussions kinda under the sections. I'll work a little more on organizing it, and then we can see if it's something people want to use.
Just decided to check this out real quick and it looks pretty decent. Since @ ItsRainingGravy ItsRainingGravy just posted all of that moveset data the character pages should be updated, with of course giving him the proper credit. The character page should have links to all the separate character pages as well.

I'd also suggest moving the wavedash/waveland page to an air dodge page, since they are very unique in this game and a page devoted to it is probably necessary.

EDIT: Also, I think I've finally found a setting for recording that doesn't slow my laptop down too much and the footage is still somewhat decent. What do you guys think?
 
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4nace

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@ ItsRainingGravy ItsRainingGravy

Love the in-depth breakdown and suggestions! Wanted to say thanks a ton! Will address your suggestions later tonight / tomorrow. Watching some football tonight haha. I did want to drop in and let you know I appreciate what you've done.

@ JCOnyx JCOnyx

That footage looks pretty good to me at first glance :). Nice job finding settings.

-Dan
 

UnsuspectingVillager

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Is it too late to send in a request for a playtester build? Really wanna play this game, seems very cool. If not, when's the next time I could?
 

Hatninja

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Just decided to check this out real quick and it looks pretty decent. Since @ ItsRainingGravy ItsRainingGravy just posted all of that moveset data the character pages should be updated, with of course giving him the proper credit. The character page should have links to all the separate character pages as well.
I can do that! Now with the exception of Zetterburn and Orcane, all done! I haven't the time to finish, so i'll come back to it later.
It's still a wiki though, so why not do it yourself?
 
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JCOnyx

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I was busy with other thing atm lol. Now I'm off to work. I was planning on contributing though, and will when I find more time.
 

BluHawk007

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Wow, this game looks really good! I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes! :D
 

Yurya

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- Currently, you can create infinite blocks with two Kraggs by stealing the other Kragg's block and having him spawn a new one after each time you steal it. By doing this, you can literally cover the screen with blocks after a few minutes. Fun thing though? It doesn't cause any significant amount of lag even if you have 50 or so blocks on the screen, or at least from what I have noticed anyways. What I would like to say is this: PLEASE DON'T PATCH THIS unless it becomes a huge problem somehow. Because it is incredibly fun to make MineCraft fortresses with two or more Kraggs. XD And it could lead to people having more interest and fun in the game. So, unless there is a gamebreaking bug of sorts involving this, I would say it is fine to keep it as you can't really abuse this in an actual competitive match, lol
I just found that out today as well. The fireworks after are amazing.

I have a writeup coming on my thoughts.
 

WheelerFGC

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The demo is awesome!
I do have one problem though (It might be me being dumb though)
what is a recommended bitrate for OBS to stop lagging out my stream?
I have it at 1000 and it just grinds to a halt. (not the game, it only lags a little)
 

dquarius

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I reapplied I think I left a few more details off. But if I'm not accepted may I ask if you you and your team are planning on a public beta, or not? This game is looking really awesome from what I seen, and I can't wait until the full version!
 

Streetwize

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Okay... Playing with a friend helped me generate some invaluable feedback. He found a broken combo with Zetterburn that leads to easy kills. His down-air easily bounces and with 15% each hit and no DI after bounce. It's a zero-to-death combo if done right. I managed to escape only once through SDI (which wasn't recorded). It definitely needs to be toned down.
What I think is that hitting one side of body with the down air is what stops DI from happening, as you can see I managed to successfully DI in the second match.
He also had something to say on Wrastor's aerial Smashes. The fact he stays in the air gives him too much leniency with setups. He suggested something along the lines of making Wrastor fall after charging for some time.

After playing I felt like the overall hitstun was a little too much. It's good for combos, but I had a hard time double jumping to escape when while in practice mode the stun makes it look like it's escapable. DI helps about half the time.
He also insisted on adding a scaling system. I don't think you need something like stale moves. I find most combos to be about 5-6 hits long... anything longer could become weaker to prevent any damage racking; perhaps adding in more DI would help make them more escapable after something long like 8 hits. I think it would be creative to make a way to weaken combos instead of weakening spammed moves.
The last thing he brought up was a bit of criticism of the pacing with damages. It takes well over 100% before one of us dies oftentimes. I even found myself at 200% once before dying in a match with my friend. Hopefully that will become balanced as development progresses.
(I didn't record everything because I wasn't able to have my laptop on the charger for awhile. I probably would have if I was able to.)
 
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DrMister

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This game has soooo much promise. I have some interesting questions. Seeing as there are 4 main elements, if they combine would they make others? For instance= Earth + Air= Sand. Gameplay seems so smooth and fluid. Looks really fun. I like Wrastor alot, and his moveset is obviously based on Falco + Meta Knight. Last thing is I have a character concept. Seeing as how I explained Sand how about an Alligator. I hope you dont mind if someday I send you the idea. Other than that I'd seriously enjoy for this game to be succesful! Good Luck, 4nace!
Edit: I have one last question (sorry). Since you can play this with a controller, why cant you make one of the analog sticks act like a C-Stick? Or is it already implemented?
 
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JCOnyx

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JCOnyx

JCOnyx

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After watching the Zetta Dair video I decided to make a video showcasing one of Wrastor's best ground options and how it can be spammed at low percents. DI up and away is the only option that can save you, but only from another Dtilt. They can just move in for a Nair to set you up offstage for an edgeguard.

 

DrMister

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After watching the Zetta Dair video I decided to make a video showcasing one of Wrastor's best ground options and how it can be spammed at low percents. DI up and away is the only option that can save you, but only from another Dtilt. They can just move in for a Nair to set you up offstage for an edgeguard.

Orcana technically can escape, that small window of opportunity to teleport to his puddle. You just need to be lucky, haha.
Edit: By lucky I mean it requires you to set the puddle before the actual combo. Obviously hitstun won't allow you to set the puddle beforehand. Also, can you test to see if Kragg could escape this combo using his Up-Special?
 
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YardyHardy

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Reapplied for playtesting last night, although I don't have as much experience with playtesting as others I'd love to help Rivals of Aether develop! The game looks very promising so far, Nice work!
 

JCOnyx

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Orcana technically can escape, that small window of opportunity to teleport to his puddle. You just need to be lucky, haha.
Edit: By lucky I mean it requires you to set the puddle before the actual combo. Obviously hitstun won't allow you to set the puddle beforehand. Also, can you test to see if Kragg could escape this combo using his Up-Special?
I will when I get back from work, didn't get the chance to go to a weekly today because of said work and I was going to bring the play test build as well. There's always next week I guess.

I also tried to start editing the Zettaburn page on the wiki but couldn't figure out how to add lines to the table for his Bair. I scraped my work for the moment and will continue that as well later today.
 

4nace

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I don't have time to respond to everyone today. Gotta get back to development but I'll go over some suggestions :)

@ ItsRainingGravy ItsRainingGravy
Thanks again for the data. It will definitely help on populating a wiki.

General:
I will check into the DI on combos. It's probably more likely because the time between them is too long rather than DI being an issue. I will see if I can speed up the cancels a bit.
Yeah crouch cancel is a bit strong right now. Thinking of ways around that. At one point I was thinking of putting crouching into an RPS system. Right now it just makes lots of things unsafe at low percents which goes against the aggressive nature of RoA.
Yeah the jab not getting eaten up by parry is on purpose to give at least 1 move that doesn't get destroyed by Parry. I consider the last hit to be a full attack though so if you parry that hit then you get lag.

Zetterburn:
He does have high KO potential but setting up that kill gets very predictable. You have to be able to combo Nspecial or bair into up smash for best results against good players. Even then Zetterburn is likely at the bottom of the 4 char tier list right now :D
I'll look into making Jab 1 linkable into other attacks like dtilt.

Wrastor:
Yeah I will look into Jab 2 being linkable. The funny thing with Wrastor is that his full jab combo is pretty solid as long as you are not at the end of a platform or ground. That's why I could see the cancels being useful.
Hmm yeah Down Special is quite strong still imo. It has a small hitbox but the reward is pretty high because of the extended hitstun. It is also one of Wrastor's main damage dealers other than his up tilt. I might be able to increase the hitbox size on the ground and have it not go through projectiles still though.

Kragg:
Jab 2 sounds good.
Dash attack used to be very strong on Kragg for comboing across the stage. The issue was a good combo was just dash attack -> dash attack -> dash attack. I can reduce the recovery but then I will likely want to increase the startup slightly so going into down tilt is a better option than another dash attack.
Haha haven't tested with the new blocks yet but makes sense. I will look at if it breaks certain stages / causes issues elsewhere.

Orcane:
Yeah I will look at the bubbles. That's his main damage dealer right now. I agree that down tilt can probably be hit but reducing his bubble damage scares me a bit. Also would have to then distinguish bubbles of fair from down special since right now they carry the same data.
And yeah I haven't seen people using the projectiles in combos much since they can just be attacked so the damage there might be okay for now.

@ Streetwize Streetwize
Coolio. That Down Air combo SHOULD be techable. Have your buddy hold left or right and tap dodge right as he hits the ground. Lemme know if he can't.
Wrastor's hover in Smashes is part of his design. He's got that air control you knowww. I agree it does allow him to set up combos a bit too well but noob DI is increased against Wrastor's regular aerials which can make following up challenging if an opponent holds away from you.

The damage issue is definitely something I am looking at. It is a symptom of designing certain attacks for kills and certain attacks for combos. It means it can get hard to land kill moves and the damage just keeps going up. I will probably look at my knockback scaling on combo moves (except maybe wrastor) as time goes on. I saw on VGBootcamp a Wrastor get to around 220+ damage against a Kragg. I don't want that to happen at all in a serious match.

@ JCOnyx JCOnyx
Yup. I don't have the new adapter so it is not set up for that. I will be getting the adapter for Xmas so expect an option for that adapter in January if I can figure out what is going on.

@ RoA_Zam RoA_Zam
Yeah I noticed that too. Will fix eventually haha. Not a huge deal since its just temp text anywho :)

@ Everyone who has applied for playtesters recently.

I wasn't planning on sending out any more December playtesters but I have gotten a huge influx of applications at the end of last week and over the weekend. I will likely pick about 10-20 people to send out the build to. It will be sent out through email.

Thanks,
Dan
 

DrMister

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So I played Super Smash Land, and I used Vaporeon. Dear Jesus, Orcane will probably be my main. He's so FRESH. It's like, you can set up kills amazingly with the Up Move it's AMAZING! Whenever I manage to get this game, even if it's after release, I'll use Orcane so much he'll get tired and dissolve. Also I wanna fully construct my alligator idea from one of my previous posts, and I wanna see what you other posters think of it. Right now I only have lore-wise, but I'll edit everytime I think of new pieces of his kit. Thanks 4nace for such an amazing game, that has inspired me to sprout various new ideas. This, is my best so far, so please constructive criticism is very much desired!


Nhab is widely recognized in the Shifting Sands for his barbaric attitude and his brutal deeds. He was the one who attempted to assassinate the *Add Enemy of Sand here*'s highest commanding officer. He was born in an area of the Shifting Sands where chaos reigned in every corner. He saw it as something normal, until one day he snapped. Many say it was because of the death of his parents before his very eyes. Others say it was because someone stole his most prized possession. There is one thing everyone knows for sure, though. That he takes pity on no one.

Movelist
Neutrals and Tilts
Jab Combo: 4%, 4%, 6% - Swipes 2 times with his tail, and then bites powerfully with his jaw
Side Tilt: 9% - Hits with his claw
Down Tilt: 6% - Quickly swipes the floor with his tail
Up Tilt: 8% - Forcefully raises his fists in the air
Specials
Neutral Special: 5%(In air) ~ 7% (Grounded) Tosses a snake formed by the sand of his village, which travels foward in an arcing motion. If falling, it goes diagonally down. (Pikachu's Neutral B)
Side Special: 5%(Uncharged), 20%(Fully Charged) - Using his sands as propulsion, Nhab flies in foward. Has a very slight chance of missfire. (Will put missfire damage later one. Missfire chance: 1.25%)
Down Special: 3% - Creates a sand trap a few blocks away from him. Immobilizes a person from 1~2 seconds. Cannot trap the same person for 4 seconds after being released.
Up Special: 1%(No Sweetspot) ~ 25%(Sweetspot) - Using his power and the power of sand, Nhab does a mighty uppercut. He has no movement during the uppercut, and when falling can move. Has a sweetspot which raises both damage and knockback. (Luigi's Super Jump Punch)
Strong Attacks (Smashes)
????
Passives
????
Dumb Trivia!
Interestingly enough, Nhab means Marauder in Arabic, I translated it from English to Arab and from Arab to the Latin Alphabet!
I spent 4 Hours mimicking the trailer's text while being entertained by Sanic's amazing stream! Check it out whenever you guys can!
The picture (the name text) is based off of the trailer's introduction text! Completely made by me by EYE! No rips whatsoever!
 
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RoA_Zam

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http://www.twitch.tv/earthbones

Finished streaming for today!

I had a great time answering questions and talking about the game with people. You all make my life interesting. I love the support im getting from a few people already about my stream and I'll definitely try to find more time in the future for it.

Also Dan I have a lot of hours of footage to go through and highlight videos for you to watch, which I will link in a new post lol.

To anyone who didn't watch today's stream, here's a link to all of it (Audio got muted for some of it) :
http://www.twitch.tv/earthbones/c/5691245
http://www.twitch.tv/earthbones/c/5691255
http://www.twitch.tv/earthbones/c/5691272
Over 5 hours of footage saved from today lol.
 
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YardyHardy

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Thanks for letting me playtest RoA! Will be doing a write up of first impressions including character break downs and anything I notice while playing it within the next few days.
 

RoA_Zam

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Here's a cropped part of my stream where I show off my two best matches back to back, one of which was requested haha.http://www.twitch.tv/earthbones/c/5691351

I honestly think in it's current state, this game is already fantastic. I'm so anxious to see the next updates and new characters coming soon!
 

dquarius

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Messages
22
First, I would like to say that I am grateful that I was accepted for play testing, this game is showing potential and may replace melee and PM in terms of competitive play! ( for me that is )

I've messing around with the game and I have one minor complaint and kind of an balance issue.

I found the analog on my after glow 360 to be a bit sensitive and kept dashing when I wanted to walk and intendedly preformed an smash It may be me, but if possible can you please add an option the lower or increase the sensitivity the analog stick and possibly add an option to move around with the dpad?

and with orcane i found that you can spam his dair and do a kill setup i have spammed his dair and connected it up to 7 time twice the second time i manage to kill following with his uair, i wanted to address this because if done right it can be a 0 to dearth combo.

thats all I have to say. And again thank you so much for accepting me as an play tester.

Edit
if so can you add an option to use a separate button for smash attacks?
 
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RoA_Zam

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and with orcane i found that you can spam his dair and do a kill setup i have spammed his dair and connected it up to 7 time twice the second time i manage to kill following with his uair, i wanted to address this because if done right it can be a 0 to dearth combo.
Orcane Dair is DI'able after the second use if someone DI's properly. Against CPU's, it's harder to tell that you actually can. It's way less broken now than it used to be.
 

JCOnyx

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I did a thing.


The way this game allows you to cancel a jump with airdodge which seems to almost immediately land cancel, makes multi-shines pretty simple. No need to press down at all. Although, as you can see, with shines being mapped to neutral special, I find doing multiple waveshines to be a bit more difficult.
 
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likiji123

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more feedback
- wrastors stage in the background on the normal version still has springs
- kraggs Nair hitbox seems a bit too big
- if kragg breaks the opponents block the particles become his colour
 
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