Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[4nace]

Hey Guys. Just to let you know, I will be reading through all the comments later tonight! Had a busy day yesterday and today with launching the trailer and whatnot. I am very excited to hear your suggestions as I know there are a couple things I am not satisfied with yet.

Also, has anyone figured out any information on the trades yet? I still havent cracked it.

Also, to everyone new who applied, I will be looking through applications tonight as well.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Xanthus]

I made a thing. Merry Kraggsmas! Alternate skin for Dec. 25th? :D

Also, is there any way you could add some random DI (even if its hacky)? It'd be nice to practice combos and have them even do basic holding left / right randomly while in hitstun.

 

[RoA_Zam]

Things I want to see in the next version (As of right now) :

• CPU Hard Left/Right Random DI when hit upwards with an attack.
• Some sort of music, even if it's just a single steady simple beat to play along to on every stage
• Ability to let people set up Hamachi servers and Play together (this might already be possible?)
• Obviously a new character or two
• Stage with no platforms / moving platform
• All of the summarized ideas from my long post of things from the game
• Maybe up to 8 recolors for each character (I can help do this !!!)
• Instead of just 10 FPS mode, pressing the button toggles 10, 20, 30, etc FPS and has a counter to tell you which setting it's on.
• A timer at the end of the match on the results screen or during the match
• Work on getting 4 Dinputs at one time!
• Add hitstun in yellow or some other color to debug mode
• Fix some of the glitches pointed out about glitchy hitboxes in debug mode
• Hopefully fix trade glitches?

That's all for now though. More to come over time!

More Things That I edit into the post:

• High Contrast mode for people with problematic vision

 

[Hylian]

Thoughts on moving this thread to either the Developer Studio or the Light House? I'm not really sure why it's in the brawl workshop.

 

[RoA_Zam]

I made a thing. Merry Kraggsmas! Alternate skin for Dec. 25th? :D

I'm pretty sure animating this kinda thing, as awesome as it sounds, would be ridiculous amounts of work for some characters with more detail in them.

 

[4nace]

Thoughts on moving this thread to either the Developer Studio or the Light House? I'm not really sure why it's in the brawl workshop.

Yeah you can move to Developer Studio. Brawl Workshop was where Super Smash Land was hosted. If i remember correctly, Developer Studio didn't exist before I made this, but that sounds like the right place, no?

Will the thread link stay the same though? I've linked it in a ton of places now and it would be rough losing it (some in emails already sent)

And loving the christmas pixels haha

Colors are easy to add to Rivals but any extra details would be a lot more work (like adding a trinket or something). Not planning on doing any of those at least for launch.

Still going to get to balance stuff tonight!

Thanks,
Dan Fornace

 

[Hylian]

Yes, the thread link should stay the same. Feel free to test it in a second when I move the thread.

Edit: Welcome to your new home thread.

 

[Cubonebonebone]

Just sent in my application, this game looks amazing. I showed this to 4 or 5 of my friends already and we are all super hyped for it. One question I had is will there be an online multiplayer in the final product, and if so has there been any thought to a ranking system?

 

[likiji123]

My collected feedback will be put in later. I've become a little busy just when I finished this video for you all. Until then...

Huh, i never knew that you could double air dodge

 

[Xanthus]

Uploaded a short video showcasing the below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CgTs-5LcZI
Bug: Ground Detection With Platforms
Wasn't sure if these are an exploitable bit of game / stage knowledge you can use to your advantage or something you wanna know about:

• I'm guessing Kragg's down B Checks for ground at three seperate points, so you can actually use it on a pillar, and it can activate on a platform further away. (also it can spawn below the top of the platforms).
• If Kragg's body is touching a platform while he's standing on his pillar, it gives him the ability to use the pillar again. Creates a few scenarios where he can kind of spam it

Kragg Up-B Stalling

• Kragg's pillar can be used beneath Air Armada, and to the lower right side of Fire Capitol for stalling. With Fire Capitol, you can use it much better to actually keep chucking rocks at the stage, either down low or throw it up to hit the higher areas. Maybe make it so pulling rocks damages the pillar? Even still, you can get a stock / percent lead and hide below the stage (unless you're a character that could chase down there or bring him up). Which is no fun and I'm sure nobody would do but it's possible!

Lastly just a tiny cosmetic thing: After Kragg's airdodge, his feet are higher than his hitbox. So it looks like he can land but he actually falls through.

 

[Streetwize]

Falling
Any reason why we can't fastfall while helpless? Although recoveries would become safer, not fastfalling is unlike SSB.

Control bug with Tap Jump
I decided to try to mess around with Orcane with a more traditional SSB control feeling. I did up and B and every time I do it he jumps up. This is another universal bug.

Wrastor
Loving him, but I feel the damage on his neutral air is too low and the amount of lag the opponent receives from his up-tilt is too high. It doesn't exactly make them fly, but it stuns long enough that it becomes a kill move. His ground game is a little too good because of that. Why not make his neutral air a sexkick?
Analog tapping for Wrastor's aerial tilts.
As a player who grew used to c-stick aerials, I missed the fact that I couldn't use them for aerials with Wrastor. I was hoping the right stick would already be tailored for both his air attacks. With Wrastor's unique aerial attacks, I think the right stick deserves to be just as unique.

DCUS only?
As stated before, Zetterburn's Up Smash is the only move that carries momentum from a dash. Is that a mistake?

Wave-Jumping
Yep, I decided to give the exploit I found a name. And scratch my comment about not giving wavedash a button. I have two ideas for wave-movement: either make it work by pressing dodge and a direction, or assign that function exclusively to Y. It should be simple by making the button press jump and dodge at the same time if combined with a direction.

Damage?
Why does O burn all computers for 5% when it's only supposed to toggle the HUD? Bug? Wrong keymap for potential function? Kinda weird.

I showed my friend this at college and we were only able to play on one controller for about 10 minutes. Kragg was the most interesting character for him, but we were cut short by my ride coming to get me. I agree with the fact that Kragg should be able to repick his blocks, but I think they should be a little easier to break for other characters to use them against him. Seeing that in Kragg vs Kragg was kinda fun on Xanthus's stream.

 

[likiji123]

I'm pretty sure animating this kinda thing, as awesome as it sounds, would be ridiculous amounts of work for some characters with more detail in them.

Welp

Christmas Zetterburn

 

[Streetwize]

Meh, I wanted to add a star but I suck at perspective. Instead, enjoy golden claws (which cannot be seen in-game sadly...)

Spoiler

 

[likiji123]

Meh, I wanted to add a star but I suck at perspective. Instead, enjoy golden claws (which cannot be seen in-game sadly...)

Looks good (although the red does make it look like blood)

There was some more things i noticed while playing the game
- Tilts should do around 9% or 8% instead of 10%
- Smashes also do around 10% which make smashes seem weak

 

[Puppyfaic]

Meh, I wanted to add a star but I suck at perspective. Instead, enjoy golden claws (which cannot be seen in-game sadly...)

Reverse the red and green. He looks really bloody. Not very festive.

 

[Streetwize]

Merry Christmas AND Happy Halloween! The yellow claws look better on the Halloween one imo.

 

[Xanthus]

Dan, your game is now color dinosaur, scrap this whole fighting stuff, and add a coloring game mode!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWDL8IxMDqs

I gave him xmas light toenails, haha. And softened his colors

Actual update: Orcanes greenboxes (hitboxes shown with the "H" key) are off when he uses puddle smashes.

 

[Hatninja]

I gotta say, this game looks interesting! Sent my application late. But no matter how long, i look forward to trying it out!

 

[likiji123]

Well since were on a costume mania

Falco Wrastor
BTW theres a glitch on kraggs stage when in team mode (aether mode only)

 

[RoA_Zam]

Guys. New Tech discovered lool.

RIP in Pepperoni.

But no this is a minor glitch I found.

Dan Nerf Pls.

 

[RoA_Zam]

BTW theres a glitch on kraggs stage when in team mode (aether mode only)

That's a simple fix. Just about depth of the object instances.

 

[likiji123]

Made ingame version of these

 

[likiji123]

something else i discovered (make sure audio is turned off before watching unless you want to hear usher)
Pretty much the way it works is if you do Wrastor's down smash and press up at anytime during the move you cancel it

 

[4nace]

@CaptainCrisb

• What Single Player bug are you talking about? Might be an easy fix, just not sure of the reference
• Can fix that. Fire Capitol related bug for sure. Added to me list.
• No music for now. We plan on getting it back for January
• Sfx are being addressed particularly swipes and hits. Thanks for the feedback on em though.

@Zauron
Couldn't find anything about that closing issue. Thanks for giving me on the information. Not sure why that is happening though. Will ask around though to see if anyone else is seeing it.

@JCOnyx
Are you using the WII U GC adapter? I have the DInput controls set up for the older USB ones. If you have an Xbox 360 controller, thats your safest bet for now. It will be a little bit before we can implement support for custom controls on both Xinput and Dinput.
His Bair is meant to be a lingering hitbox inside his body a bit since other characters have Nair which can usually fill that role. His Nair extends from his body a bit like Rob or Charizard. Perhaps it doesn't linger quite long enough to get that point across.

@ Xanthus
Kragg's side B has been through a lot behind the scenes. It began as a nearly straight up dupe of Sonic's Side special. I got feedback from nearly everyone that Kragg was already fast enough and the Sonic special just didnt seem to fit his tank like nature. It is understandable that of all the specials it could use the most work. The goal of the move was to make a defensive move for Kragg rather than a speed move. I was basing it on Olimar's whistle and wanted to give Kragg a safe way to get back on stage. The fact that it has a hitbox is because everything in Rivals is aggressive!

After reading your feedback, I do have some ideas for the Side Special to adjust it.

• First I would extend the minimum time required to be in the Ball. This would be to reduce its stalling and make the move a bit more predictable to punish. I might even toss the ability to get out of the roll early all together and then just shorten its time so it's even more predictable.
• Second I would have it so if you take a hit while in super armor you lose your Horizontal speed and have to start accelerating again. Hopefully characters could space a retreating aerial and still get away before Kragg can accelerate and punish. I could even do something like powerful hits push him back slightly (if KB > x then send back at Y speed)

I will probably try both of these out and see how they feel.

Kragg's Up Special.
This move is also contentious among our friends. It does end up over-centralizing Kragg's a bit during intermediate matches in my opinion. Once players are more used to it, the interaction gets a bit more interesting because certain characters have fast upward attacks and can combo Kragg before he can combo them. On Zetterburn, I like going for a Dair into an Up Smash if my percent is low enough. If I was going to nerf him today, the one thing I would hit would be to give Kragg just a touch more lag on the end of the Special so it is really only worth trying to use it for a combo if your opponent is above 100% or if you have a rock below as well.

And yeah I'm glad I got it out even if there is some stuff I wish was cleaner right now

@akf09
Good call with the down tilt. I hadn't though about that. I will adjust the angle to give it a different knockback trajectory which will carry over to rocks. I am thinking something that is a lower angle than down smash but still diagonal would be cool.

Yeah I will be adjusting the roll. It started as a Sonic-style roll as i mention earlier. Jump cancel with super armor sounds scary though haha. Unless you mean it only armors attacks under X% like Smash 4 has on some chars if i recall correctly. I do want it to be a defensive style move for Rivals but I agree it doesn't quite fit yet.

@ likiji123

• Kragg Utilt spam is *mostly* because of No DI. The AI always moves toward you because it is dumb. I will add to my notes to give it variable DI while in hitstun.
• Wrastor N B is nerfed a bit from Metaknight tornado because if you want to extend it, then you will end in a Fall State. Also there is a BIG hole in the top so you can Dair him if you come from above.
• Yeah thats because I use a default message pop-up. Just gotta un fullscreen and re fullscreen
• Good point, there is a sound when it ends but I could probably do a soft burn sound.
• I have gotten that guide feedback before and it is something I am planning to add before my next event/show. Will tell you things like Zetter's Burn -> Strong Combo and Wrastor's Aerial Strongs and Current Use. I'll likely have an Info button on the player card that works like the Option Button.
• Taunts will most likely be added before the game ships. *I hope*. I do all the animations right now so our animation budget is lower than low.
• No to ledge grabbing. Don't plan on adding it!
• Time Matches - Probably. Time Option for Stock Matches - Definitely.
• Mods- Probably not? Not sure yet. Definitely not for Xbox One. Maybe for Steam. Will have to learn more about how that works.
• Name Tags - Yes. Likely with controller options too.
• CPU Color - Hmmm probably? I think there are easy solutions. Will look into it.
• Cross Over Characters - Honestly not sure! Would like to do an indie character or two as DLC but nothing is planned as of now.

@Thores

• Taunts above ^
• Thanks on Aether/Basic.
• Any ideas on how to improve the falling rock interaction? Delay the fall a bit more perhaps? Also I removed the walk off on the Rock Stage Basic for now in case there are some combos that are incredibly good at chaining horizontals (orcane dash attack is decent right now )
• Down B is a free combo button. The grounded one might be too easy to hit though. It should probably be out prioritized by other attacks. Will take a look at its hitbox and hurtbox.
• Hmm interesting take on Kragg's side B being underpowered. It just doesn't really fit the Rivals gameplay style right now in my opinion. akf09 might be right that something with short armor that is fast and cancellable might be the way to go. Will keep thinking on this one. Just want it to be defensive while still being aggressive. I think if it loses its defensive nature all together then the character loses a bit of his bruiser status.
• Yeah thats a puddle glitch. The game think it has a puddle but then doesnt when it tries to find its data. I thought I did the check each time a puddle was called but I will investigate it.

@ RoA_Zam

• Orcane stuff-
• The Dair nerf is probably fair, I abuse the crap out of that thing against friends. It might actually be techable if they dair you into the ground. Would have to experiment more but maybe that helps? I will look into solutions before nerfing this quite yet.
• Nerf bubbles how haha? Less bubbles, more start up on spawning them? Orcane bubbles are super fun so i dont want to nerf them TOO much.
• Yeah the buff he got with moving smashes was pretty significant. I will look at Fsmash closely as that is probably the scariest.
• Orcane is in a weird place. At first glance, he looks the weakest. In the hands of a good player, he looks unbeatable. His ground speed means his combos are real and his puddle smashes mean that killing is safe for him. (Which can be hard even on a char like Wrastor) Perhaps the startup of Fsmash needs to be longer so the reward of the kill is in line with the Usmash.
• Zetterburn-
• Down B recovery will likely be reduced soon. It was overnerfed because my brother spams it in free-for-alls.
• Side B recovery is not actually to prevent spam but to reduce the likelihood of Side Special -> Fsmash which was THE way to kill on zetterburn for a long time and was quite easy to pull off. He does have trouble killing now so maybe its time to bring that back? lol
• His recovery is predictable for sure, but wall jumps help him out there imo.
• Hmm i like your Down B trajectory idea. Will add that to my notes.
• Will look into Nair DI too. Might have to actually increase my Smash DI values for those multi-hits. Smash DI is Smash 4 low right now
• UP smash hitbox being more forward is probably a good idea. Could use a new animation too to feel more powerful. Will see if I can sketch up something that is still a claw grab move.
• Wrastor-
• Dash Attack is still okayish imo, but yes it is nerfed. Definitely needs the current to be a real combo tool. Try DIing up to get out of it on the ground. Might sound weird but because of the slight noob DI, you can actually suspend yourself above wrastor long enough to jump out eventually.
• Neutral B. You want more recovery on it? How are you guys using it where it overcentralizes thing? My friends and I just try to get kills off the top with it haha. Even then we switched to Up Special after I buffed the wing slash portion of that move.
• Side B could probably use a slight bit more recovery. I tend to do Side B into Down B because the Side B negates whatever my opponent was doing.
• Up B. Yes the wing slash part (not the kill box) needs lower knockback. I will definitely hit that. Wrastor vs Wrastor is dumb because of how early Up Special kills.
• Kragg
• Thanks for the love. I personally feel like Orcane is still my "coolest" moveset but Kragg is close and looks cooler when doing his thing well.
• Down B. I am thinking of removing the Third Hit kill potential and giving it the same properties as Wrastor's Down Special. (Tumble state / extended hitstun) I feel like he has enough kills already. Might not reduce his recovery then though. We'll see how that feels.
• Side B. Yeah I have talked about it a lot in this post. Might need a full-on rework. I want a defensive move that fits into the Rivals playstyle. Shoot me any and all ideas. You can be less conservative with them too.
• Dair. Kragg is meant to be a bit weak from below. I could see why you would want to have a longer lasting hbox though.
• Neutral B - The Slide is a bit scary because then I have to deal with it sliding off edges and getting its hitbox back. The air version of the rock and the ground version are quite different. One is a registered hitbox while one is solid ground. They don't pass too much information between the two (like speeds or what have you). Also players having hitboxes is something i have thought about but comboing off Kragg's wall is just too fun imo. Can't decide what i want to do haha. Kragg's rock should be easier for you to break because most your attacks kill it in one hit rather than multiple hits. (a rock has 10 hp) Wrastor in particular struggles to break rocks.
• Trades - So trades were working. I broke them. I'm not sure how but I did. I think I am letting players adjust their speeds while in hitpause during a trade. This makes no sense to me because players should consider themselves in hitstun during a trade even though it draws them in an attack (this is why Zetterburn loses his rotation when trading with Up Special btw). I haven't been able to land on why this is happening and have been checking my code over and over. So let me know if you get any more details. I will be digger deeper this week.
• AI - Will be adding random DI for next update. Probably will be a bit before smart DI.
• Haha sounds interesting. I would have to see how its working
• Parries are hard to use. Part of the design a bit and part of them not being completely solved yet. Rivals is an aggressive and (easy to by flashy) fighting game so defensive tools are limited in ways.
• Yeah the balance is decent right now. Not perfect but decent. I hope to only improve it as time goes on

@ Xanthus
Zburn N Special. Yeah i saw that on stream. You were definitely abusing the Nspecial by timing it correctly. I think extending the charge time a bit is the simplest fix. You should not be getting the large hitbox out that quickly. Should be more like Roy / Ike charges.

Thanks for the hurtboxes bugs. I added them to my buglist.

@ Streetwize
I found Zetterburn to be quite broken with sliding strong attacks

@ Puppyfaic

• Sounds like your slowdown might be because of a controller / input issue. I have never heard of it. Try unplugging all controllers and running a full AI match and let me know if you get 60 fps.
• Hmm I hadn't though about increasing Kragg's damage factor for breaking rocks. I just buffed his damage. Might be a good suggestion because then I can get his tilts back to lower damage haha.
• I had thought of allowing him to pick up a boulder again. The one issue I had there is that it would reset the boulder's damage as I don't have throwing or spinning sprites with the different damage states (and dont plan to). That would probably be weird to pick up a cracked boulder and toss it and then its healthy. Can probably do this still if people dont mind that issue.
• Yeah I could launch it with the spring, perhaps make the hitbox be for the player who launched it. Launching it will make it lose damage though just like picking it up would though .
• I am scared of it getting broken right away though as Xanthus mentioned above. I can look at something like this if the Pillar stays as an over-centralizing move.
• Down Special. Cool idea. with the nerf to the third hit, this might actually be quite a cool setup. Shouldnt be too hard to program. I probably would have never thought of it either. Now I really want to try it.
• Yup we dont really support Dinput right now but will before PC release. As a PS3 controller you can try emulating it as Xinput. (google PS3 as Xinput to see how - i think it can be annoying). That way though you would get both control options of default or veteran.
• Yeah still working on solutions for damage going up. Smash 4 does this quite well. You may notice that the P1-P4 signaler does shift to black when you reach 100%. But that is not enough still.

Wooh thats alot. I have a ton of notes. Going to hit some Kragg issues tomorrow I think. Wouldn't mind seeing some more brainstorm around Side Special solutions before I dig too deep into that. Will probably hit Down Tilt, Down Special and possibly N Special (re-pick up) tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for your feedback and keep it coming!

 

[likiji123]

@ likiji123

• Kragg Utilt spam is *mostly* because of No DI. The AI always moves toward you because it is dumb. I will add to my notes to give it variable DI while in hitstun.
• Wrastor N B is nerfed a bit from Metaknight tornado because if you want to extend it, then you will end in a Fall State. Also there is a BIG hole in the top so you can Dair him if you come from above.
• Yeah thats because I use a default message pop-up. Just gotta un fullscreen and re fullscreen
• Good point, there is a sound when it ends but I could probably do a soft burn sound.
• I have gotten that guide feedback before and it is something I am planning to add before my next event/show. Will tell you things like Zetter's Burn -> Strong Combo and Wrastor's Aerial Strongs and Current Use. I'll likely have an Info button on the player card that works like the Option Button.
• Taunts will most likely be added before the game ships. *I hope*. I do all the animations right now so our animation budget is lower than low.
• No to ledge grabbing. Don't plan on adding it!
• Time Matches - Probably. Time Option for Stock Matches - Definitely.
• Mods- Probably not? Not sure yet. Definitely not for Xbox One. Maybe for Steam. Will have to learn more about how that works.
• Name Tags - Yes. Likely with controller options too.
• CPU Color - Hmmm probably? I think there are easy solutions. Will look into it.
• Cross Over Characters - Honestly not sure! Would like to do an indie character or two as DLC but nothing is planned as of now.

- Kraggs Utilt - Ahh i see (im not even good with DI so yeah)
- Wrastor N B - Yeah i noticed the hitbox thing i just thought it was still a little bit unfair (maybe its more like SSB4 Metaknight)
- Message Pop-up - awww, i guess i'll have to get used to that
- Taunts - YAYYYYYY :D
- Ledge grabbing - i guess that makes sense though im used to wavedashing onto a ledge to stop an opponent
- Time/stock - YES
- Mods - i knew that xbox mods wouldn't be happening though it is good to hear that your thinking about steam mods
- Name Tags - Phew
- CPU Colour - that sounds good as i dont want to keep fighting the same colour over and over
- Crossover Characters - Starts thinking of possible characters....

Thank you for replying to my feedback
(Did you see the team glitch i posted?)

 

[Streetwize]

Z becomes broken? Let's fix this the way I only know how!

Spoiler

Just kidding. But in all seriousness is it really that bad? How about reducing his momentum during those moves? It just feels weird that he stays still with his other smashes. And what about the rest of my feedback?

 

[Yurya]

Kragg

• Side B. Yeah I have talked about it a lot in this post. Might need a full-on rework. I want a defensive move that fits into the Rivals playstyle. Shoot me any and all ideas. You can be less conservative with them too.

I only recently applied as a play-tester so I can't draw from experience with the game but what if: Side-B didn't try to combo at all?
If you made the move move faster, but it could only remain moving in one direction (not sure if it already is), and knocked the target backwards (opposite of Kragg's movement). This would make it definitely defensive oriented but it would reset to neutral and typically leave Kragg in the center of a stage (assuming defensive use like recovering). Additionally if it broke a rock it could be used to approach and still have offensive uses.

 

[Puppyfaic]

Z becomes broken? Let's fix this the way I only know how!

Spoiler

Just kidding. ...

Why only kid about that? RoA has the potential to be something amazing. Some of Smash's and PS All-Stars' moves tend to be a bit dumbed down, and balance likes to be handled by nerfing strong characters rather than buffing weaker ones. Why not do the opposite with RoA? It should be something big and flashy! Buff every character! If they're all OP, none of them are OP.

That said, my idea on Kragg's Side B:
Why not make it kind of like a mix between Flare Blitz and Fox Illusion kinda thing? Kragg pauses for a second, and then spindashes forward at a fast speed(fast for Kragg, anyway). But unlike Flare Blitz, he won't take recoil damage and he won't go flying off if he misses. He's a TANK. He'll barrel right through someone and keep going like Fox Illusion. In the air, it could be used like a Dive Kick. He'll go diagonally forward-down instead, so it would make a very good aerial approach tool, but would lack super armor in the air, since Kragg is more of a ground/Earth based fighter, he should be better on Ground than in Air. Kind of like Little Mac, but not to such an extreme. I'm debating the idea in my head of whether or not he should be able to shorten his Side B like Fox' by pressing B again in the middle of it. I kind of don't like the idea.

I like Kragg. I really like Kragg. I want him to be fantabulously hamazing.

 

[Xanthus]

Kragg side B idea
When I was brainstorming on my smash game, I designed a burrow move which could fit RoA. It would be defensive because only your head would show, you could move back and forth (although slightly slower), but could be hit by lower hitboxes. When you come out, its a narrow'ish vertical hit that would combo into other moves. This would be a counter to aerial approaches as you could burrow beneath them then pop up, as well as go under projectiles. Its defensive against certain options while remaining aggressive, and giving another advantage the ground where kragg should excel.

Also if you still wanted him to have a super armor move, it could be a grounded forward charge that he couldn't get knocked out of, but if he missed, would take a longer recovery. It could still come out quickly and move decently fast (as most things in RoA should be), but if they space to dodge, they should get a punish. And maybe just so it couldn't be a "get off me" move, maybe the first part of the charge would be a soft hit that's punishable. Or give it slightly (very slightly) longer startup.

Another move was a stomp which was a moving short ground projectile to knock the opponent up for combos. Only useful if they try to stay on the ground (wraster baiting with dash dancing, or trying to dash attack in), or predicting their landing.

 

[Streetwize]

Well, if there are exploits that prove characters to be too good they should be taken care of. I believe in making everyone good and satisfying, but we cannot rely on one trick that makes them good. It would ruin the intended style of the character.
Also, I'm streaming right now. No mic because I'm coughing like hell right now.
http://www.twitch.tv/streetwize/

 

[Yurya]

Why only kid about that? RoA has the potential to be something amazing. Some of Smash's and PS All-Stars' moves tend to be a bit dumbed down, and balance likes to be handled by nerfing strong characters rather than buffing weaker ones. Why not do the opposite with RoA? It should be something big and flashy! Buff every character! If they're all OP, none of them are OP.

If every character can 0-to-death someone then the game no longer becomes about who can read and complete combos but who hits first. And in that case if everyone also has unstoppable approaches than the winner is whoever struck first.
While I don't mind strong combos and aggressive play, but I wouldn't play Rivals for very long if there weren't options available for the player being comboed (DI, teching). While the game would be fun here and there to pick up it wouldn't have needed depth to keep me engaged, or it would just have depth I wouldn't see worth pursuing (first hit is all that matters).

 

[pokemandudeguy_1]

Am I missing something or is it not possible to use the Wii U GC adapter to run this game? I use Elmasivo's GC adapter program, so if anyone else has any experience with the program that would be great.

 

[RoA_Zam]

What one does when one is bored of studying for finals:

 

[Redpunter]

I LOVE THIS GAME, I hope its as good as melee, and I can see it'll be better. Thank you Everything Smash for helping me and a lot of other people find this game

 

[4nace]

Pretty sure I just fixed the elusive trade glitch. Uploading to the same link that you guys have through the email. You should be able to redownload and test to see if the trades are still causing issues.

The reason I was having problems is that one of the player's was letting their old speed values continue through hitpause in a trade. So one player would be launched and the other would just stop or continue with their attack velocity if they had one. (at least that should be what was happening). I have it set so getting hit by a new attack overrides your hitpause values so now the second player registered in a trade should also get their knockback value set correctly.

Will be adding some other stuff tonight. Starting on Kragg changes!

-Dan

 

[Xanthus]

Kragg Down-B spam
You may be aware of this, but because you can immediately waveland onto/off his rock blocks, you can create a flurry of rocks really quickly that I'm sure would be very difficult and annoying to deal with. I haven't fully gotten the timing down perfectly, but it will be ridiculous when I do . I would suggest being inactive for a little bit in the air after a downthrow.

And to be honest, in general the move comes out SUPER quick, and can be thrown VERY fast, and could stand a speed nerf

Kragg Up-B Ideas
What I'm trying to resolve with the following ideas are issues that arrise from being able to place ground wherever you want, with a hitbox to anyone below you (stalling in hard to reach areas, staying on top/ playing in the air, where an earth character shouldn't do well)

• Height limit on pillar: if the heighest the pillar will go is 1-3 character heights above the main stage, the hitbox only threatens those near the ground (near his element). Also it wouldn't be used to stay on top. It would suck to miss out on low% flashy vertical pillar kills, but worth it.
• Deterioration/ limit of some kind: I think once he jumps off the pillar, or pulls a rock from it, it should deteriorate over the next second or two.
• Alternate idea: Instead of calling up a rock pillar, maybe it could call up a rock platform that rises quickly from the ground, meets him at his height carrying him upward, then sort of lingers as gravity overtakes it over the next couple of seconds and it disintigrates. Sort of similar to Megaman's up-b in SSL I suppose, except falling a tiny bit before dissapearing (and of course bringing enemies up and hitting them)

 

[4nace]

Kragg Down-B spam
You may be aware of this, but because you can immediately waveland onto/off his rock blocks, you can create a flurry of rocks really quickly that I'm sure would be very difficult and annoying to deal with. I haven't fully gotten the timing down perfectly, but it will be ridiculous when I do . I would suggest being inactive for a little bit in the air after a downthrow.

And to be honest, in general the move comes out SUPER quick, and can be thrown VERY fast, and could stand a speed nerf

Kragg Up-B Ideas
What I'm trying to resolve with the following ideas are issues that arrise from being able to place ground wherever you want, with a hitbox to anyone below you (stalling in hard to reach areas, staying on top/ playing in the air, where an earth character shouldn't do well)

• Height limit on pillar: if the heighest the pillar will go is 1-3 character heights above the main stage, the hitbox only threatens those near the ground (near his element). Also it wouldn't be used to stay on top. It would suck to miss out on low% flashy vertical pillar kills, but worth it.
• Deterioration/ limit of some kind: I think once he jumps off the pillar, or pulls a rock from it, it should deteriorate over the next second or two.
• Alternate idea: Instead of calling up a rock pillar, maybe it could call up a rock platform that rises quickly from the ground, meets him at his height carrying him upward, then sort of lingers as gravity overtakes it over the next couple of seconds and it disintigrates. Sort of similar to Megaman's up-b in SSL I suppose, except falling a tiny bit before dissapearing (and of course bringing enemies up and hitting them)

Down Special Spam is interesting. I will likely increase the startup and recovery on the attack slightly and then have the Standing on Rock version trigger a bit later to see if this helps. I plan on trying out some of the other suggestions to Down Sepcial as well so will have to see how they interact with standing on the rock.

Up Special Ideas.

So I have some ideas for limiting the Up Special if it is truly an issue. One idea would be that you can only have a single pillar out at one time. (would then match his rock in terms of predictability) But there are two ways to get rid of the pillar. The first is by attacking it (you or your opponent can clear it). The second is by touching any ground that is higher than the pillar itself (which will instantly remove the pillar). The one issue i see here is that you could still stall fairly effectively by killing your own pillar than forming another one offstage, but it is a tiny risk to break your own pillar a bit because you have to fall lower than the top to break it. I can also reduce the height you gain when you first use it to reduce its effectiveness off stage a bit.


EDIT: Thinking about this more not sure it really solves the issue you pointed out. He would still be able to hang out above you. This would however give the pillar a clear limitation that will make sense to players since the rock has the same limitation. Also having it disappear when you reach higher ground means you dont have to go clear the really low pillars you used to save yourself. I would consider Up Special though to be less critical for updates than Down Special and Side Special so will likely hit it last

 

[Streetwize]

The one issue i see here is that you could still stall fairly effectively by killing your own pillar than forming another one offstage, but it is a tiny risk to break your own pillar a bit because you have to fall lower than the top to break it. I can also reduce the height you gain when you first use it to reduce its effectiveness off stage a bit.

I always thought the pillar worked once per airtime (save for landing on your pillar). It should be the case if it isn't. Combining one at a time with once per airtime might be a little extreme, but working from there shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Cubonebonebone]

Just got the playtest build. It is amazing, thanks so much for making this a thing Dan. I love the way everything plays. The gamecube controls worked very well and intuitively. The only thing I noticed was that it was much easier to parry and airdodge with the L trigger than the R. this may well be my controller though. In my first 3 or 4 hours of playing I didnt really catch any bugs. Is there supposed to be music? I watched a stream and there was music occasionally but I haven't got any through my play time.

Last thing is I noticed this in a game vs kragg the block was thrown to what looked like the very farthest it could go without falling off the edge. It made it VERY hard to recover, and this may evolve into a precise edge guarding technique. Just a cool thing I noticed.

 

[Grass]

For a second I almost thought this was an Ike thread. As you were, gentlemen.