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Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

arcticfox8

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I've been upset with shield dropping in melee lately so I thought I would look to the future by posting here.

Just in case you are including similar shield options in this game, I would recommend making pressing down the control stick + shield make your character shield drop like in smash 64. If you are including spot dodging, that could be done with shield + down on c-stick, or shield + b.

Just out of curiosity, will there be shield angling. Will there ever be a need to block low, tilt your shield downwards in this game? Don't make shield options as difficult and controller dependent as they are in other smash titles. There are ways to do it better.
There are no shields in RoA
 

4nace

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Shield dropping can be a pain in smash for sure. We are trying to make sure that competitive tools aren't unnecessarily difficult. The choice for us is more important than the execution. (There will still be some choices that require practice and quick reflexes though)

But we don't have shields like smash does. We have done away with both shields and grabs. So you won't have to worry about shield dropping. During Rolls and Parries, you cannot fall through a platform.

You can learn a bit more about our Parry system in this Smash Cast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1dgH1D4Lg

Sorry I've been radio silent for a bit. Hard at work on new content!

-Dan
 

akf09

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wondering how the project is going, would love to get my hands on some of the characters you are working on
 

4nace

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@ likiji123 likiji123

You can apply by sending an email to roa.game (at) gmail (dot) com. The instructions are in the first post. We won't be sending out to new playtesters until the next build but we have everyone's information :).

@ akf09 akf09

We are planning to send out another build toward the end of 2014 with 4 characters and some new stages. This build will be streamable and youtubable as well. It has some balance / engine changes as well. We want to get a trailer out early December before letting people get their hands on the fourth character :)

-Dan
 

likiji123

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@ likiji123 likiji123

You can apply by sending an email to roa.game (at) gmail (dot) com. The instructions are in the first post. We won't be sending out to new playtesters until the next build but we have everyone's information :).
-Dan
Ahh i see i have sent a application and now i have to wait and see what happens :)
 

akf09

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hahaha alright sounds good, glad to hear youve almost got 4 characters out. oh and for the water variation you better do ice! hahaha
 

4nace

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Sent in an application a few hours ago. Really looking forward to seeing more about this game.
Sounds good!


We've gotten a few other applicants in the last couple of weeks. Just a heads up to everyone who applied after September, you will be considered for the next playtester build, but won't be receiving the September build.

We will be sending out a new playtester build in December, targeting the week of 12/8. This build will be the latest and greatest and have taken in a ton of the feedback from past playtesters. You will be notified via email. If you were accepted as a playtester in the past and responded with feedback then you will also be included on the email that goes out on that week. I will be posting here as well when that build goes out to people.

In the meantime, we are hard at work on our second trailer and I can't wait to show it off to you guys!

Thanks,
Dan Fornace
 
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Streetwize

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I have a few questions about the design.
How much will we see out of Smash 4 in RoA? I see killing opponents is easier like the first three games. Any chance of a finishing hit for multiple-hit moves? It was probably the most innovative aspect of that title.

What is the emphasis of wavedashing in this game? I'm personally not big on wavedashing as it's something I cannot teach to my more casual friends. I see there is going to be emphasis on using normal dashes to alleviate such technicality. Pretty interesting from what I've read so far. The technicality required to execute a tilt from a dash-cancel is probably much less than utilizing wavedashing to the fullest.

Parries probably will be too good if they lock the opponent no matter what. Maximizing the room for error would harm players of all skill levels. Will "unparryable" attacks still be considered, or will parry be tweaked in the future?


This remark is a bit pretentious on my part as I've yet to play the game. It is only based on what I know so far.
People complain about the lack of a fighting triangle in this game. Fighting games generally have two triangles in their game: one that counteracts, and one that complements. I've played games that don't have an RPS system (counteractive), and rely on balancing offense, defense, and mobility instead (complementary). The latter seems to be what RoA's design is solely trying to focus on.
If grabbing were be implemented without trying to create the counter-triangle, the best approach would be to reduce its priority by allowing grabs to be parried and taking out the ability to grab airborne, lying, and crouching opponents just like in traditional fighters. Although it might need some improvement here and there, the overall design would instead complement the offense aspect in the complementary triangle instead of creating a counteractive triangle that this game has been trying to avoid.
Also, I'd recommend Smash 64's system for the sake of simplicity.

Play games like Little Fighter 2 and Hero Fighter to see what I mean of how there isn't a counteractive triangle, and how grabbing is more complementary to the offensive game compared to other games.
 
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4nace

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@ Streetwize Streetwize

Yeah there will be a good amount of theorycrafting until you get your hands on it but thats fine. :)

I haven't done too much Smash 4 yet, just because I haven't played it much. There are some things that work similarly just out of same time same place. For example, in RoA you can charge strong attacks by holding the right stick in the direction you flicked it.
I do agree with you that multihits with finishers is a cool part of Smash 4. I will try to get some of those in. Smash DI is also pretty low in Rivals of Aether right now but with multihit finishers, I would want to find a good balance.

Wavedashing is pretty useful but its easier to pull off with the small buffer i have. I have friends who never used it in Smash, who started messing with it in Rivals and now they like to try to mess with it in PM. However, as you may have seen in the thread, wavedashing is not as critical. You can currently use a strong attack (smash attack) immediately out of dash. Some attacks such as Orcane's strong attacks even preserve moment with little friction so you can gain more distance with that than using a wave dash. The Dash stop state is also quite short and you can crouch out of dash as well so you don't really lose options in Rivals when going into a dash. I am hoping that players can ramp up their movement option usage by simply playing but in Rivals, you don't need to be able to wavedash to dominate at the time being. Wavelanding is pretty good though for sho.

Parry is still being tweaked and likely will until the game ships. Right now it is quite difficult to time so it doesn't overcentralize gameplay. One of the cores of creating Rivals was an aggressive and accessible version of Smash bros. So decreasing the defensive options while increasing the offensive options was part of that decision. Right now though some characters (cough a certain bird character cough) have combos that feel very hard to escape even if you are a skilled player. I will be looking for solutions there, but the game will always remain more offensive focused.

So the triangle being removed is a big piece of the new design. Parry counter right now is just bait and punish, or move in quicker than your opponent expects and hit them before they can get the parry out. I have been thinking about non-parryable attacks and how they fit into the overall design. You might see a more defined counter for the parry in the December build but its likely I will get the hands in more players before re-investigating. :)

The main reason grabs are removed is a scope reason. As an indie dev, 4 anims for each direction of throw is a bit tough to swallow. Grabs would be something I would love to explore as another offensive option, but perhaps not in this version of RoA.

Thanks,
Dan Fornace
 

likiji123

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Just wondering will there be more characters than super smash land?
 

Streetwize

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With the buffer in mind, I'd like to see a character able to chain moves together more fluently than others kind of like PM's Sonic and Lucario. The safety of jump cancels shouldn't be a problem since attacks can only connect, whiff, or be parried. Lightning would be ideal under fire as it can branch out into several different patterns, but it might be a little too close to an element already mentioned.
Still on the idea of lightning though, I could easily see a chargeable bolt of lightning as a neutral special similar to Greninja and Pikachu's Thunder for the down. The side and up specials could be used to focus on physical attacks, connecting into a smash on the ground (at least for side-B) and aiding the end of an aerial combo. The "magic series" for this character would probably be jab-tilt-special-smash. It might be a little overpowered--pardon my bias for rounded/rushdown characters.
 

4nace

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I might have a lightning special set already designed (which i think will be awesome) so magic chaining his normal attacks would be a cool addition. I'll see what I can come up with :)

And i have a bias toward rushdown characters too. So we are on the same page there!

I do agree that many cancels can be safe to implement in RoA. I've seen that jump cancels are pretty good (Zetter can jump cancel his neutral B pulse as if it were a shine). I'll start thinking about cancels more on the remaining roster :). Maybe some specials that can be cancelled into too!

@ likiji123 likiji123
So we haven't announced the number officially, but I can say that I am shooting for an 8 character roster. 4 characters from the traditional elements of Air, Earth, Fire and Water, and 4 characters that are subsets of those four. So more than Smash Land :)

-Dan
 

likiji123

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I might have a lightning special set already designed (which i think will be awesome) so magic chaining his normal attacks would be a cool addition. I'll see what I can come up with :)

And i have a bias toward rushdown characters too. So we are on the same page there!

I do agree that many cancels can be safe to implement in RoA. I've seen that jump cancels are pretty good (Zetter can jump cancel his neutral B pulse as if it were a shine). I'll start thinking about cancels more on the remaining roster :). Maybe some specials that can be cancelled into too!

@ likiji123 likiji123
So we haven't announced the number officially, but I can say that I am shooting for an 8 character roster. 4 characters from the traditional elements of Air, Earth, Fire and Water, and 4 characters that are subsets of those four. So more than Smash Land :)

-Dan
Phew, that sounds good
 

Streetwize

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I had the idea of jump cancels for said character to be able to chain an up-smash (or tilt) into an aerial then a special very similar to Lucario. Hopefully the only moves for characters that become jump-cancelled are those that would work well from jumping out of.
As long as the chain-combo-oriented character is in, I am not too worried about the roster size. I'd love to see this game expanded in the future. I understand how far a small team can go as this is indie after all.
 

Xanthus

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Just played again tonight during a smashfest at my place. Everybody is still loving it, can't wait for the update with the Wrastor nerfs :> and walljumping! Got a new player that really loves the "dash dancing" and the feel of the game: you really nailed it.

I got another piece of feedback from a player asking about slightly longer delay before respawning. He didn't really go into detail about it, I guess it's just a "feel" thing.

And also just to say that even though I've been quiet recently, this is still pretty much my like... top 5 favorite game and its still in alpha! I just unfortunately haven't gotten quite as much playtime, but now it'll be played pretty heavily every Monday during smashfests. I might play around with it more in my own time and see if I can think of any more feedback than I've currently given.
 
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TheDiamondPiggy

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Hey i'm back! I got playtester but I was having troubles... works now! So here is what I found:

ZETTERBURN OP.

A good combo is Up smash, Nair, Sair, Bair, DSmash. That'll guarantee a kill if ya can pull it off.

DSmash can kill from VERY low percents, but Zetterburn's Recovery is a bit lackluster. Add edge grabbing, please.

Orcane is also good with combos. side tilt to down tilt x3 to Dsmash and follow up with Bair or Nair is awesome.

I'm currently making a video about all 3 characters so that's a thing.

My tier list so far:

1. ZetterBurn
2. Orcane
3. Wrastor
 

TheDiamondPiggy

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Diamond Tips: Rivals Of Aether

So you want to master this game? Easy peazy. Just use some of these tactics.

ZETTERBURN: Stay low and close to the ground. Aerial combos are awesome with Zetter but he has difficulty recovering. NEVER use Dair as a risk. USmash to Nair to Sair to Bair to Dsmash will kill easily, and anyone past 60-70% should die from a Dsmash. Use his NSpecial wisely as it can be a good combo starter and enter but it has startup and end lag. SSpecial is important to use too but only for chip damage. DSpecial is good if you are midair and want to go down and is a surprisingly good punisher. If you are sent flying, you can try Air Dodging but Up Special will usually be your best bet. Zetterburn's deadliest weapons is his devastating combos. Nair to DSpecial to DSmash is a good one. Fair will combo repeatedly.


ORCANE: Hoo boy. Alright, a couple ground rules. ALWAYS HAVE A PUDDLE ON THE FEILD. The extra damage isn't worth giving up your puddle for a few seconds. Up Special is awesome as if used right you can survive upwards of 170% percent. If an enemy is close to the puddle use Up Special immediately. On a high platform it will kill at incredibly low percentage, downwards of 65%! Also, combo time! STilt, DTilt X2 or 3, DSmash, Nair, Bair. That is a hard combo but does wonders if you land it. Also, you must use the STilt to push into a wall do the DTilts will work. You can use it when not backed into a wall but it is harder and you only can do one DTilt with a perfectly timed DSmash right after. DAir CAN semi spike but is better for short combos low. Orcane can be very risky and get farther to the blast zone than any other characters.


WRASTOR: The Falco. No items, Wrastor only, Final Destination.


What, you wanted a tutorial? Pfft, fine.
His best combo is Dair to Nair. I like to Uair and then repeatedly Sair until the opponent cannot recover. Use Nair for chip damage and as the backup when all 3 jumps are used up. Never use Up Special, it should be nice but reaches too low. But when midair Wrastor can combo like no ones business. Use SSpecial when it is too close to blast zone or too risky to safely finish the combo.
 

4nace

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@ Streetwize Streetwize

Yeah i think you are on to something with a PM Lucario style cancel ability. I would probably make sure you can never chain it back. Like always cancelling into things with longer recovery. Otherwise you could just always end at a jab or tilt or something quick. Im interested in other cancel ideas too as long as there is counterplay.

After you get your hands on the December playtester build, perhaps we can start discussing some of the other designs and you can give me some input. One thing I've tried to do is tie everyone's kit together nicely. Orcane is the best example of that so far. All his special attacks revolve around the puddle (either placing it or consuming it). Then his strong attacks (smash attacks) can consume a puddle. There ends up being an important decision each time you place or consume a puddle and it gives him a unique feel as a character.

@ Xanthus Xanthus
Glad to know you are still enjoying it! Wrastor nerfs are incoming but he is still quite strong. I want to get some more player feedback before hitting his combo tools. (His current may indeed by the culprit as you cannot DI away if he uses it wisely).
I think I respawn the player too fast. Just increased it slightly. Thanks. I would probably have missed that. It is indeed a "game feel" thing so I think your friend is right.
Hopefully your friends enjoy the next build even more. Feel free to drop it and let me know which characters are performing well and how the matchups are looking in your eyes!

@ TheDiamondPiggy TheDiamondPiggy
Thanks for the tips. Only really useful for playtesters since players waiting for a build won't be able to try them out. But soon they will too! Also Zetterburn's recovery is getting a boost but not because of ledges. I enabled a wall jump and you can do it during the special fall state. Just get back to the wall if you are looking to recover. That will be in the december build.

Your Orcane tips are good too. Playing with a puddle is the safest bet but sometimes you just gotta go crazy aggro and use it and just go for it.

Also its funny to see Wrastor at the bottom of your list. Most people with the September build would put him at the top ;)

@ likiji123 likiji123
Wrastor is still unannounced, however playtesters did get a secret glimpse at him already. He is the Air Based Character which you might be able to tell by the amount of aerials in Diamond's tips. Everyone will get to see him in action very soon though! The second trailer is coming together and we are also working on a Developer Update for later this week!

Thanks guys and keep it coming!

Also still aiming for the week of Dec 8th for the trailer and the playtester build. (trailer on Monday, Build on Tues/Wed) I will let you know if that date changes but I keep referring to a "future build" and I want you playtesters and those who recently applied to be in the know!

-Dan
 
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likiji123

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@ likiji123 likiji123
Wrastor is still unannounced, however playtesters did get a secret glimpse at him already. He is the Air Based Character which you might be able to tell by the amount of aerials in Diamond's tips. Everyone will get to see him in action very soon though! The second trailer is coming together and we are also working on a Developer Update for later this week!

Thanks guys and keep it coming!

Also still aiming for the week of Dec 8th for the trailer and the playtester build. (trailer on Monday, Build on Tues/Wed) I will let you know if that date changes but I keep referring to a "future build" and I want you playtesters and those who recently applied to be in the know!

-Dan
Ahhh i see
 

TheDiamondPiggy

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My Tier List V0.2:

1. Wrastor
2. Zetterburn
3. Orcane

After learning about the flash for Zetter's NSpecial, he is alot more useful.
 

Streetwize

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I'll save my future discussion until then.

In the meantime, I saw a Wrastor video and I was a little depressed seeing his Up Special leave him helpless when it looked like it would make a good combo linker. Unless the move is getting more knockback it can instead use up all his jumps and remove the ability to do the hurricane so he would still be unable to recover after using the move.
 

TheDiamondPiggy

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I'll save my future discussion until then.

In the meantime, I saw a Wrastor video and I was a little depressed seeing his Up Special leave him helpless when it looked like it would make a good combo linker. Unless the move is getting more knockback it can instead use up all his jumps and remove the ability to do the hurricane so he would still be unable to recover after using the move.
If the video was for Dylan Langille, that's mine :D I made a first time playing vid for each character, they can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzeVric_Vra1xgQzMQKj_aw
 

Ticker

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So I saw you said you were going to have 8 characters. Do you plan on adding more characters,stages, or costumes after release?
 

4nace

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So I saw you said you were going to have 8 characters. Do you plan on adding more characters,stages, or costumes after release?
Depends on how the game is received. I would love to do more characters and possible cameos as DLC. Right now we are shooting for 8, but we will definitely look to expand if the game is successful.

@ akf09 akf09

Maybeeeeeee. ;) Water is at the end of my second set list though.

-Dan
 

akf09

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dan when can we expect the play test build? ive been going to alot of smash fests so i could bring it with me to get some feedback
 

Pikmin1211

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Looks like an awesome project! A few questions though. Will there be netplay? If so, will there be anonymous, and if there is anonymous, will there be a sort of "for fun / for glory" type of thing? Also, I can see that Zetterburn is based off of Wolf, while Orcane is based off of Vaporeon. Will every character be based off of other characters, or can we expect to see some unique characters as well? And can we expect to see a Melee Fox-esque character? Finally, will there be releases outside of PC?
 

arcticfox8

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Looks like an awesome project! A few questions though. Will there be netplay? If so, will there be anonymous, and if there is anonymous, will there be a sort of "for fun / for glory" type of thing? Also, I can see that Zetterburn is based off of Wolf, while Orcane is based off of Vaporeon. Will every character be based off of other characters, or can we expect to see some unique characters as well? And can we expect to see a Melee Fox-esque character? Finally, will there be releases outside of PC?
I can answer a few of these.
While Zetterburn is definitely based on Wolf, every other character will only be taking some inspirations from characters in other Smash styled games. Every character will be unique.
An Xbox One release is already confirmed.
 
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Pikmin1211

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I can answer a few of these.
While Zetterburn is definitely based on Wolf, every other character will only be taking some inspirations from characters in other Smash styled games. Every character will be unique.
An Xbox One release is already confirmed.
Ah, ok, ty. darn, i only have a 360.
 
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4nace

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We are excited to reveal the next two characters to join the Rivals of Aether roster! Watch them in action in our brand new trailer released today:


The first new character is Wrastor, the Wind’s Fury:



Learn more about Wrastor and his aerial techniques on his character page.

The second new character is Kragg, Earth’s Bastion:



Learn more about Kragg and his earthly powers on his character page.

We are also hard at work getting the December Playtester build finished with the goal of emailing it out to playtesters by the end of today!

Thanks,
Dan
 
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