Regarding the next Balance Patch

[Alhobbies440]

Now that it has been confirmed that there will be another balance patch in the next few weeks what are your guys speculations as to what Sakurai is going to be changing and what do you want to see changed? I for one want to see the following more than anything at this point:

• Increased Hitstun.
• Increased Shield stun.
• Reduced lag on some aerials.

Those three things, especially the first two, will help this game on a competitive level exponentially. I know it's not too likely but it is possible. However, what I think is really gonna happen is that the dev team has solely focused on the For Glory and will skew the balance for a lot of characters. I could be wrong, and I hope I'm wrong but I do think For Glory has to be an influence. What are you guy's thoughts? What do want to see and what do you think will ultimately be changed?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Death to Diddy!!!!!!

 

[Newbarktown]

I doubt any overall gameplay mechanics will be changed. IIRC it specifically said character tweaks, so expect things like Diddys dthrow to have actual endlag or for it to send you higher up, some lower-tiers get a few buffs, etc etc.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

I can see HOO HAH getting nerfed in the next update.

But other than character tweaks, I wouldn't expect any major changes to Sm4sh's gameplay, like weaker shields, increased hitstun, etc.

 

[BBC7]

I'd like to see changes made to Diddy:

+ Increased knockback on U-Air
+ U-Air comes out on Frame 1
+ D-Throw has 600 frames of hitstun
+ Grab comes out on Frame 2
+ Dash Grab comes out on Frame 3
+ Dash Grab has the range of fully-charged Mega Man F-Smash
+ D-Tilt has guaranteed tripping, and does 25%
+ Up B charges instantly
+ Up to 8 bananas can be spawned
+ Peanut Popper can kill at 60% and charges instantly
+ F-Smash is a true OHKO when fully charged
+ Side B can stun the opponent for a fully charged F-Smash
+ The roster is changed to only include Diddy

Only then can we experience perfect balance.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Don't see any engine changes coming. Fortunately Ganondorf looks like a good bet to see buffs, as he's generally regarded as low to low mid on most tier lists, especially Japanese tier lists. I think he's probably around mid tier with customs, but even if he sees significant buffs his built-in weaknesses are such that he's unlikely to be broken.

 

[Newbarktown]

I'd like to see changes made to Diddy:

+ Increased knockback on U-Air
+ U-Air comes out on Frame 1
+ D-Throw has 600 frames of hitstun
+ Grab comes out on Frame 2
+ Dash Grab comes out on Frame 3
+ Dash Grab has the range of fully-charged Mega Man F-Smash
+ D-Tilt has guaranteed tripping, and does 25%
+ Up B charges instantly
+ Up to 8 banana's can be spawned
+ Peanut Popper can kill at 60% and charges instantly
+ F-Smash is a true OHKO when fully charged
+ Side B can stun the opponent for a fully charged F-Smash
+ The roster is changed to only include Diddy

Only then can we experience perfect balance.

I don't know, his jab is still pretty bad. I'd say no more than C on the tier list.

 

[pikazz]

I really hope both Diddy and Shiek gets hit by the big nerf hammer! they are too good!

but I do hope they increase the hitstun a little, shieldpressure/shieldstun more and some tweak there and here on character that deserves, like Jrs Throw can have a follow up/Kill Move

 

[L9999]

SMASH TEAM FIX NESS'S DOWN AIR!!!! IT ******* SUCKS!!!!! In the meantime, buff his Lucas customs or make them the same as Lucas since he is back!!!

 

[Crescent_Sun]

Decrease hitstun, no true combos for anyone

 

[Newbarktown]

Decrease hitstun, no true combos for anyone

Agreed. Make the game 80 FPS and have Luigis nair come out frame 1. Also a trip sapling in the middle of FD and all Omega stages.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I can think of more characters that deserve buffs than ones that deserve nerfs, then there's the rest of the cast where I don't know enough about them to really say anything one way or another.

But I'm not sure if this topic is supposed to be us talking about changes we want to see or something else.

 

[GanonDuck]

Well you never know about mechanic changes, i mean the last big balance patch literally removed vectoring.

 

[Alhobbies440]

But I'm not sure if this topic is supposed to be us talking about changes we want to see or something else.

It's about changes we want to see and what we expect to see.

 

[Pyr]

Don't see any engine changes coming. Fortunately Ganondorf looks like a good bet to see buffs, as he's generally regarded as low to low mid on most tier lists, especially Japanese tier lists. I think he's probably around mid tier with customs, but even if he sees significant buffs his built-in weaknesses are such that he's unlikely to be broken.

A certain special someone who helped make the game loves to play him as well, so...

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Nerf Diddy's dthrow by giving it less knockback. Less knockback means it's harder to kill with it. That counts as a nerf, right? :^)

 

[Cactusblah]

It will be unfortunate if certain characters are nerfed but others completely ignored, making them even better than before. Looking at characters like Yoshi, Rosalina, and Sonic. If Diddy is getting nerfed, so should those.

Also buff Marth/Lucina and Robin.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Holy **** Sakurai PLEASE give Mac his old Aerial Side B back

Also, Auto Cancel Dair for Ganon and AC Lasers for Falco would be very nice

 

[Xermo]

Ness clearly needs buffs. We've seen the trailer, Lucas is confirmed better than him now.

 

[Ulevo]

It will be unfortunate if certain characters are nerfed but others completely ignored, making them even better than before. Looking at characters like Yoshi, Rosalina, and Sonic. If Diddy is getting nerfed, so should those.

Also buff Marth/Lucina and Robin.

No.

Most of the higher tiered characters in this game are in a fine state. They're not overbearing, just good characters. Diddy is basically the exception to the rule. I'd much rather have some compensating buffs to some of the low and mid tier characters than unnecessary nerfs to higher tier characters that could take them out of viability.

 

[Arcfire]

Marth/Lucina buffs would be welcome

 

[Rakurai]

The KO power on Wario's aerials could stand to be buffed a bit. Right now, the only thing you need to be afraid of while he's airborne is the Waft, which is a little depressing when had one of the deadliest uairs back in Brawl.

Game and Watch also needs a KO power buff across the board so he can be a glass cannon again instead of just glass.

As for Diddy, all he really needs to be balanced out IMO is increased endlag on his moves across the board. Sheik's lack of endlag is actually justified by how much harder she has to work for KOs.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Toon Link pls buff

 

[Alhobbies440]

No.

Most of the higher tiered characters in this game are in a fine state. They're not overbearing, just good characters. Diddy is basically the exception to the rule. I'd much rather have some compensating buffs to some of the low and mid tier characters than unnecessary nerfs to higher tier characters that could take them out of viability.

I completely agree but devs usually take the easy way out and just nerf whatever is deemed the strongest character instead of buffing the weaker characters.

 

[David Viran]

The KO power on Wario's aerials could stand to be buffed a bit. Right now, the only thing you need to be afraid of while he's airborne is the Waft, which is a little depressing when had one of the deadliest uairs back in Brawl.

Game and Watch also needs a KO power buff across the board so he can be a glass cannon again instead of just glass.

As for Diddy, all he really needs to be balanced out IMO is increased endlag on his moves across the board. Sheik's lack of endlag is actually justified by how much harder she has to work for KOs.

Across the board? that might be a overkill. As sheik she dominates neutral a little to hard in some MU's. Maybe a little more landing lag on fair or needles.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Lucina/Zelda buffs please. Lucy as she is is just Marth with training wheels. I's increase her overall damage while leaving ther KO potential roughly as is.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Sheik's lack of endlag is actually justified by how much harder she has to work for KOs.

...dunno if I can agree with this

What about the characters with plenty of endlag yet no kill power?

Give her killing uair and downb, make her moves less braindead please.

 

[Artmastercorey]

I think less landing lag on aerials would be good. Some character can perform aerial attacks, land and shield immediately while others cant. The overall inability to punish or defend in this game is unbalanced.

 

[Sleek Media]

Ruin Diddy's dThrow, give Shiek some damn landing lag on her aerials, reduce safety of moves on block in general (Sonic, Falcon). Everything else looks pretty good so far.

 

[Rakurai]

I can't readily think of any characters who are slower, but lacking in kill options.

 

[David Viran]

What's with the nerf diddy's dthrow? Come on people learn to DI and also focus on what actually kills, his uair. Make it kill later, come out a frame later, and have slightly more endlag.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

I want Lucina to be safer on shields. Hell, I want her and Marth to be faster too.

 

[L9999]

Better yet, remove their stupidly awful landing lag. Ness needs buffs. With the rise of customs, he will suck really hard.

 

[Marrow]

Less lag/higher air speed for Charizard please

 

[Unicorn]

Marth/Lucina buffs would be welcome

SH double Fair would be nice. Not gonna happen but... a Shaq can dream.

 

[Piford]

We just need a slight nerf to Diddy's up air, and then buffing of a lot or characters. Faster characters all around would be nice. Less lag (landing and in general) would help increase the combo potential a lot.

Also if we could fix the fact that a lot of moves do too much knockback to follow up that would also help. Like, Lucas looks like all his moves can combo because they don't send characters half way across the screen. I hope Sakurai made it that way for all characters.

 

[|RK|]

- Kirby's inhale improved
- Faster ground and air speed

I'll take those for now.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Well if we're being all wishlist in here then here's some ideas.


Monkey Flip puts Diddy in helpless fall state after use. (AFAIK Diddy's weakness is, allegedly, a subpar recovery, but Monkey Flip as an additional recovery option with no real downside thumbs its nose at the concept.)
Up aerial attack has higher base knockback, lower knockback growth, and additional end lag. (Hoo-hah is still a thing but can't kill as early. Also makes it easier to punish a whiff.)


Needle Storm only causes hitstun when fully charged. (Not sure if this is workable, but it's an interesting idea.)
Bouncing Fish does not bounce when hitting a shield. (Again, not sure if reasonable or just me being salty.)
Burst Grenade no longer puts Sheik in helpless fall state. (Self explanatory.)


All moves do an additional 1-2% damage. (Right now she doesn't do enough damage to be worth using over Marth.)


PK Flash no longer puts Ness in helpless fall state. (Why Sakurai.)


Din's Fire no longer puts Zelda in helpless fall state. (Again. Why.)
Up tilt does an additional 0.5% damage.
(Seriously though, Zelda needs something but I'm not sure what would be most appropriate.)


Giant Punch no longer puts Donkey Kong in helpless fall state. (Seriously.)


Homing Missiles have less endlag.
Super Missiles have increased knockback growth.
Morph Ball Bombs detonate on contact with an enemy.


Fix Order Tackle glitch.


Inhale pulls players towards Kirby even when they're shielding.


Gale Strike has less endlag.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

- Kirby's inhale improved
- Faster ground and air speed

I'll take those for now.

Less ending lag on U-Air and F-Air so they actually work, please.

 

[Mario766]

Looking for those Ike buffs.