sunshine93
Smash Rookie
Alright, I wanted to make this post to gauge what changes some of us would like to see in Yoshi to help him against the rest of the cast. Most of the consensus between top players and others is that although Yoshi has potential that has not been fully tapped yet, he still has limiting problems that prevent him from being "perfect".
So lets discuss what changes to make. Lets pretend that 1.1.6 patch is coming and that 1.1.5 was not the last patch of the game. What are specific changes to Yoshi do you want to see? And when I say specific, I want frame data changes, I want hitbox lengthened or shortened changes, I want KBG or BKB changes, I want you to think about what would make Yoshi better. But like the title says, be realistic. Don't say you want upSmash to kill at 60% or that you want Yoshi to have a chain grab.
Some examples:
1) I want uptilt to hit on the lower platform of Dreamland. I can't for the life of me understand why uptilt won't hit. The little white trail that signifies where the attack hits is up on the platform when you are below it, and yet it will never hit. So I want the hitbox on uptilt to be lengthened just a little bit so that uptilt will hit someone above me on the lower platform of Dreamland. I don't want it to cover the whole platform, just the tiny bit that the white trail says it covers.
2) I want Yoshi's grab to have less lag and less problems. Again to be specific, I want Standing Grab to go from FAF at 56 to 50, Dashing grab to go from FAF 68 to 60, and Pivot Grab FAF 65 to 55. Now this would put us in the range of about how fast Lucas' grab speed is, but I honestly think we could even go a little lower in FAF and still be reasonable and here is why. All other tether grabs in the the game have slow ending lag, but are justified because they help with recovery, extend further than the normal grab and have longer lasting hitboxes. Yoshi however has a different kind of "tether" grab. I say "tether" because although it extends further than a normal grab and has longer lasting hitboxes, it doesn't help in recovery at all. And thats the point. ZSS has a high FAF on her grabs, but the high FAF are completely balanced because she has a mix-up to her returning to the stage because of the tether, and her grab, if landed, could result in a 0 to death or a long string of combos. It is the same for the rest of the characters with tether grabs (albeit no 0 to death combos but they have follow ups on their throws, and/or have kill throws). Yoshi has NONE of those things. His dthrow doesn't even combo into upair half the time. I think having faster grabs is justified for these reasons. Now to kind of talk about the "problems" with his grab. I don't like how there is a part of his tongue that has no hitbox. In Yoshis' Hitbox Visualization, there is a gap between the 2nd and 3rd hitboxes that could potential result in a missed grab. I want that gap filled in. Also I want the duration for the hitboxes on the grabs to be a bit longer. I know they all have 10 frames, which is a long bit of time, but asking for 12 or 13 frames I think is reasonable.
3) Either dthrow or upthrow to combo into an ariel, or for fthrow to have a bit less distance when thrown. The first two are self explanatory because they would help with damage racking up or possibly a kill setup, but the fthrow having less distance in the throw I think could be interesting. There have been a handfull of times that I have fthrown and thought, "if only they were a bit closer, I could string something together". I'm not sure if it would work, but I would want to try it out, also I want bthrow and fthrow to be different in at least some way.
4) Upair to have a bigger hitbox around his body, not his tail. This one might sound a bit starnge but hear me out. So YoHeKing found an upair combo that is great and could be used to kill early, but is quite difficult to land because the body hitbox of Yoshi is a bit too small. Make that hitbox a bit larger, and I think that would be a reliable setup to use.
The reason I was wanting to do this is that Yoshi has been ignored in the patches for awhile. If there is another patch possibly coming, then I want us to be specific about what we want changed and make a stink about it, cause then maybe if we are loud enough, then someone will see and hear us and might even make a change. But if we are too broad with our statements, then I think either the wrong thing might get changed or nothing at all.
Those are some suggestions I have and want. Tell me yours and be specific.
So lets discuss what changes to make. Lets pretend that 1.1.6 patch is coming and that 1.1.5 was not the last patch of the game. What are specific changes to Yoshi do you want to see? And when I say specific, I want frame data changes, I want hitbox lengthened or shortened changes, I want KBG or BKB changes, I want you to think about what would make Yoshi better. But like the title says, be realistic. Don't say you want upSmash to kill at 60% or that you want Yoshi to have a chain grab.
Some examples:
1) I want uptilt to hit on the lower platform of Dreamland. I can't for the life of me understand why uptilt won't hit. The little white trail that signifies where the attack hits is up on the platform when you are below it, and yet it will never hit. So I want the hitbox on uptilt to be lengthened just a little bit so that uptilt will hit someone above me on the lower platform of Dreamland. I don't want it to cover the whole platform, just the tiny bit that the white trail says it covers.
2) I want Yoshi's grab to have less lag and less problems. Again to be specific, I want Standing Grab to go from FAF at 56 to 50, Dashing grab to go from FAF 68 to 60, and Pivot Grab FAF 65 to 55. Now this would put us in the range of about how fast Lucas' grab speed is, but I honestly think we could even go a little lower in FAF and still be reasonable and here is why. All other tether grabs in the the game have slow ending lag, but are justified because they help with recovery, extend further than the normal grab and have longer lasting hitboxes. Yoshi however has a different kind of "tether" grab. I say "tether" because although it extends further than a normal grab and has longer lasting hitboxes, it doesn't help in recovery at all. And thats the point. ZSS has a high FAF on her grabs, but the high FAF are completely balanced because she has a mix-up to her returning to the stage because of the tether, and her grab, if landed, could result in a 0 to death or a long string of combos. It is the same for the rest of the characters with tether grabs (albeit no 0 to death combos but they have follow ups on their throws, and/or have kill throws). Yoshi has NONE of those things. His dthrow doesn't even combo into upair half the time. I think having faster grabs is justified for these reasons. Now to kind of talk about the "problems" with his grab. I don't like how there is a part of his tongue that has no hitbox. In Yoshis' Hitbox Visualization, there is a gap between the 2nd and 3rd hitboxes that could potential result in a missed grab. I want that gap filled in. Also I want the duration for the hitboxes on the grabs to be a bit longer. I know they all have 10 frames, which is a long bit of time, but asking for 12 or 13 frames I think is reasonable.
3) Either dthrow or upthrow to combo into an ariel, or for fthrow to have a bit less distance when thrown. The first two are self explanatory because they would help with damage racking up or possibly a kill setup, but the fthrow having less distance in the throw I think could be interesting. There have been a handfull of times that I have fthrown and thought, "if only they were a bit closer, I could string something together". I'm not sure if it would work, but I would want to try it out, also I want bthrow and fthrow to be different in at least some way.
4) Upair to have a bigger hitbox around his body, not his tail. This one might sound a bit starnge but hear me out. So YoHeKing found an upair combo that is great and could be used to kill early, but is quite difficult to land because the body hitbox of Yoshi is a bit too small. Make that hitbox a bit larger, and I think that would be a reliable setup to use.
The reason I was wanting to do this is that Yoshi has been ignored in the patches for awhile. If there is another patch possibly coming, then I want us to be specific about what we want changed and make a stink about it, cause then maybe if we are loud enough, then someone will see and hear us and might even make a change. But if we are too broad with our statements, then I think either the wrong thing might get changed or nothing at all.
Those are some suggestions I have and want. Tell me yours and be specific.