Quivo's Toon Link videos UPDATED 11.19.08! MM with DIDDY

[QUIVO]

FRIENDLIES

Quivo (TL) vs Overswarm (ROB)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sGniJCFVhx4

Quivo (TL) vs Overswarm (ROB) - He was campier this game : /
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m3O8zEpIHMs

Quivo (TL) vs Dr. X (Pit)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xSwyHacoACY

Rate, Critique, whatever. Enjoy!

8.20.08!!!! UPDATE

Quivo vs Dr X (Pit)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_jp5T2HYJE

Quivo vs Josh (MK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hBBO4Tlmcc

Quivo vs Josh(MK)2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISb-C9_Be4Y

Quivo vs Josh (Rob)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ucgpqAlLw


These were just friendlies where I was just experimenting/having fun. I know I didn't play all that well, but just understand they were friendlies. Stay tuned though! I have a few more videos to add.

PS, sorry for the bad quality

Tournaments!

SINGLES

These are pools matches, we didnt have much time so we did 2 stocks 2/3.
I played like a dumb *** in these matches...


Quivo vs Vidjo (MK) 1 - Good god I got *****...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfzklL-3D9w

Quivo vs Vidjo (MK) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxxWaxlrloU

Quivo vs Vidjo (MK) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofSuclqhA6M

Quivo vs Bloodhawk (Lucario) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOTcAbpeU9Y

Quivo vs Bloodhawk (Lucario) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFAUJhTvmmk

Quivo vs Bloodhawk (Lucario) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp00tP-t1hY

Quivo vs Jekyll (Ganon) 1 - The smartest/scariest/most patient ganon ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwy72RdJsis

Quivo vs Jekyll (Ganon) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPJdajzemIE

Quivo vs Jekyll (Ganon) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWXsJxRMN0g

DOUBLES

Quivo/Dr.X (TL/PIT) vs Prime/Vayseth (ROB/Olimar)1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ePmlT5IRY

Quivo/Dr.X(TL/PIT) vs Prime/Vayseth (ROB/Olimar)2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAK6y6OKCgY


Money Matches!!!
Quivo vs AZ best of 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-V3xVAJCU8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDGtCf_NOmY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t3SDp2cQAQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydXfQnqX99s

I forgot to upload the fourth, I'll get it up.

 

[Lobos]

You did pretty good against OS in the first match then got out camped the second. Seeing how you like to use bombs more than anything else, you should work on some bomb > dash > upsmash combos or bombs > short hop > fair, nair etc. If you know the explosion area so you wont get effected those rack up for some nice damage.

 

[QUIVO]

Yea I wanted to follow up with bombs, but with the lack of hit stun (and sometimes bad spacing) it's a bit too risky for me to try that.

I'll usually do Boomerang or arrow to nair. Fairs are too slow for me, and I only follow up with fair if it's for the kill or if I mess up.

OS is kind of hard to projectile combo against. I never know exactly which projectiles are going to hit him and this causes me to not attack him after he gets hit with a projectile. I mainly throw them to keep him off me, or to distract him so I can hit him with other stuff.

Thanks for the advice though. I usually do those things... but against players like OS make me too cautious.

 

[Sosuke]

Pretty good man. And yeah just listen to Lobos he knows what hes talking about. =)

 

[null55]

I loved that first match. Bravo.

You did a couple things that I liked. One, you didn't use arrows very much at all. I do the same, so I'm glad to see someone is as skimpy with them as me. Two, you used bombs a crap load and have good precision. Three, you incorporated the spin attack. Props.

And four, finally, you used d-air... which seems to be a very underrated move here in the Toon Link boards. I think it's clear that people are not as wary of it as some super, d-air hating, paranoid TL users seem to believe they are. The fact that you got off a spike is awesome, plus you also pulled it off one or two times just over your opponent in the middle of the map. So yeah, it's definitely not a move that should be neglected, but it should still be used in scarcity for the element of surprise (and of course when it's super necessary).

Great match.

 

[vbdood1337]

Those were really fun to watch. I loved the first match and the kill on the final stock vs pit.

I've never really used Pit all that much, so why was he sh'ing random up-b's?

 

[l SOUP l]

Quivo I liked the bomb game, very nice, the first match was very entertaining to watch nice spike =]. Although there are a couple things I thought you were lacking. 1. Almost every TL mainer loves to KO with TL's usmash. It seemed when you got your opponent to very high percentages (120+) you seem to panic a bit and spam your usmash. This for a Pit mainer is a dream come true, all he has to do is get his timing right and he will take full advantage of the lag that move has, although not much it still has enough to be punished, as you experienced in your match against Dr.X. 2. If I am wrong in this please excuse me I don't really remember it, but I think you lacked the hookshot. Although if timed wrong you can be severely punished due to its massive amount of lag, if timed right it can be very rewarding and can swing the momentum of the fight in your favor. But yea overall you did good, ROB is a bad matchup for TL I have plenty of trouble with a certain ROB on AiB, but hey we're all here to get better. Keep up the good work ^_^.

 

[QUIVO]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Yea, I don't use arrows as much as other TLs do. When I do use arrows, it's when I cancel them after baiting them into charging at me. Most people I play love to powershield them, that's why I don't use it much. Also, I hate throwing the boomerang sometimes because of the lag you get when you regrab it. It messes me up sometimes, like if I go for a nair or usmash or something.

Bombs are awesome, I like it when they spot dodge cause it's pretty much a hit. Also, they're great for setting up ko's or as distractions. I think in my second match vs OS and the end of Dr. X's game I combo'ed into uair for kills or at least some damage.

Dair is a pretty good move, it's underrated by some of the better TLs and overrated/overused by scrubby TL's. You just have to use it properly. I think there was only a few times where I actually missed it. Also, that dair spike was through the edge of the stage. I very RARELY ever go for spikes off the edge. I did it on purpose, but I was expecting it to push him away instead of actually spiking him. I just got kinda lucky.

I just recently started using up b and it's sooo good. You can usually just run up and up b since they'll think you're going to grab (thus forcing them to spot dodge).


Dr X has a habit of Wing dashing and wing cancelling. I know he uses it a lot before he goes off the stage for some purpose of chasing them out there. Other than that I know it can push characters away from him, and can be used kind of like a wave slide.

Yea, I love to KO with usmash as well.. but I didn't find openings for them. Honestly though, I use Usmash primarily for killing. Most TL's I've played spam the hell out of it and can't KO as easily. Thus I don't do what Lobos said and bomb > dash > usmash. I just need to set it up better, I wasn't necessarily focused during the match, that's why i was spamming it. But I'll admit I don't mindgame or set the usmash up as well as I should. I'll keep that in mind though.

I enjoy playing Overswarm's ROB. It's fast and intelligent. He really knows the character well. Since I play him often, I think thats the reason why I do alright in the matchup. What I really need to learn is the Metaknight matchup. One of my friends main him, but he never plays him in friendlies so I never get practice. Funny thing is that he's the only metaknight that does extremely well against me.

Anyway, more feedback is appreciated.

 

[clowsui]

What are you talking about, Q? Kel doesn't main anyone XD

Anyways OS is really hard to fight against so props for doing as well as you did, I watched the vids this morning.

 

[QUIVO]

Kel primarily plays Metaknight in tournament as far as I know. He can and will go anyone else if he has to.

 

[Doctor X]

Lies. Kel doesn't play characters.

Dr X has a habit of Wing dashing and wing cancelling. I know he uses it a lot before he goes off the stage for some purpose of chasing them out there. Other than that I know it can push characters away from him, and can be used kind of like a wave slide.

It can really mess with spacing and can stop some projectiles, notably TLink's boomerangs and arrows. I never really showed a good example, though, seeing as I suck.

I'm still experimenting with it. It may turn out to be a very bad idea to be using it against TLink... maybe not. We'll see tomorrow. Maybe we can put some more matches up.

 

[JesiahTEG]

I have to say, from this vid you really seem like the best Toon Link I've seen so far. Your projectile game is much better than anyone's I've seen...You don't just use them to camp, you actually limit your opponent with them.

You're much better than anyone I've seen so far, and definitely have a better Toon Link than me. Props man, keep it up.

 

[QUIVO]

Fine, Kel plays nobody.

and thank you very much for your compliments on my toon link jesiah. honestly though, the match vs OS is when I tried doing some different things and it seemed to work. Especially with my projectile game.

 

[AvantGarde]

Fantastic. I love the manner you play in. Your projectiles are well varied and your use of them is pretty darn great. You use bombs really well and frequently (they're my favorite too) and you don't taboo any move, that's important. You also don't try to camp or anything, you play it mid-range, which I think TL has the most advantage at.

EDIT: In the first match you seemed to bat your opponent around quite a bit, though. It's good you don't change your play style to smashattackwhore to try and kill, but certainly if you can run up to an opponent and hit them with a dropped SH bomb, you could get them with an up/side smash.

 

[Santi]

At the last tourney I went too, melee1 asked me if I knew you Quivo. He said we played a lot alike or something like that. Said you were a good TL.

I told him I saw you on the boards.
I wish I would of watched these videos closer.
I was taken out by a ROB :/

Good games. Good TL.

 

[QUIVO]

Thanks Avantgrande. I personally hate camping, and like to go on the attack. WIth projectiles you can still be offensive if you space properly, then move in with good aerials. I try not to waste moves and spam random junk. I try to make everything count. It's also tough to camp against Pit and ROB. Mid range is the best spot for TL to be imo. The only thing is that I sometimes have troubling killing opponents. For example against Pit, I would get him to high percent but not be able to finish him. I'm sometimes too cautious into going with smash attacks for kills.

Santi, I played melee1 online on Gamebattles. His IC's was sick. I couldn't keep him off with projectiles since he approaches with his over b well and manges to get grabs to chainthrows. He was **** good. It's nice to hear good players (that I at least know of) talk about me. If he says we have similar play styles we need to play someday : P

ROB is an annoying opponent, especially Overswarm's when it camps on the ledge like in the 2nd video. I try to play smart and cautious, but sometimes I don't do intelligent things. OS just brings out the best in me I think. The one thing I like doing against rob is using the up b. ROB players love to spot dodge to dsmash. This will get them most of the time.

Thanks for the comments guys. Any more advice? I know during the Pit match I wasn't trying my hardest, but I still gave an effort and had some trouble, especially in killing.

 

[Santi]

Thanks Avantgrande. I personally hate camping, and like to go on the attack. WIth projectiles you can still be offensive if you space properly, then move in with good aerials. I try not to waste moves and spam random junk. I try to make everything count. It's also tough to camp against Pit and ROB. Mid range is the best spot for TL to be imo. The only thing is that I sometimes have troubling killing opponents. For example against Pit, I would get him to high percent but not be able to finish him. I'm sometimes too cautious into going with smash attacks for kills.

Santi, I played melee1 online on Gamebattles. His IC's was sick. I couldn't keep him off with projectiles since he approaches with his over b well and manges to get grabs to chainthrows. He was **** good. It's nice to hear good players (that I at least know of) talk about me. If he says we have similar play styles we need to play someday : P

ROB is an annoying opponent, especially Overswarm's when it camps on the ledge like in the 2nd video. I try to play smart and cautious, but sometimes I don't do intelligent things. OS just brings out the best in me I think. The one thing I like doing against rob is using the up b. ROB players love to spot dodge to dsmash. This will get them most of the time.

Thanks for the comments guys. Any more advice? I know during the Pit match I wasn't trying my hardest, but I still gave an effort and had some trouble, especially in killing.

Yea he said yall played online. Those icies are nasty. He eneded up winning that tourney.
Once I start to travel more or get Wifi I'll def play some people that have been asking to play.

 

[QUIVO]

Online sucks, I just play on it cause I get to always have someone to play.

ALso, what part of texas are you from again Santi? Not houston right?

 

[Santi]

Online sucks, I just play on it cause I get to always have someone to play.

ALso, what part of texas are you from again Santi? Not houston right?

True dat. Thats why I'm in no rush to get an adapter and get Wifi.


oh no not Houston.

San Angelo :/
Hours away from Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, And Austin

8 from El Paso

Seriously in the middle of no where

 

[QUIVO]

: (

I need to play some Texas players.

 

[Santi]

: (

I need to play some Texas players.

Your telling me.
My town's smash community consists of three players...

Me
Dojo
Cake....



Thats all...

 

[AvantGarde]

Man santi that sucks. =\
I like in Texas and have been everywhere but Dallas/Fort worth, basically. Unless you're in Austin and San Antonio, there isn't a big tournament community.

 

[QUIVO]

bump

10char

 

[Finch]

Santi come to FAST and we'll play some dittos.

Last kill on pit was epic. I though bomb spam was a little overused at times, like when you could be edgeguarding but you pull out a bomb instead. TL has three projectiles for a reason.

Also, he's probably expecting this. but have you tried running off the edge and bairing OS when he camps like that? If he doesn't airdodge it's a stagespike, but he'd probably just dodge and edgeguard you :/

 

[QUIVO]

I need to work on my mindgames for edgeguarding. People usually airdodge and I get too hasty so I miss.

Running off and trying to bair OS against the stage is unintelligent. I know this cause I've tried many times before. He's good at avoiding it, and I've lost matches because of it. He camps the ledge to bait me to get over and try to gimp. That's why I space myself and just threw projectiles his way.

I know there are more projectiles, I just don't like them as much as bombs. Boomerang can sometimes cause lag or mess me up when I'm trying to approach because it'll cause that catch animation. I've been trying to incorporate the others as much though.

Thanks Finch, any other tips?

 

[Finch]

Running off and trying to bair OS against the stage is unintelligent. I know this cause I've tried many times before. He's good at avoiding it, and I've lost matches because of it. He camps the ledge to bait me to get over and try to gimp. That's why I space myself and just threw projectiles his way.

yeah that's what I figured. No more tips. I'm not good and use boomerag way too much. Like I'll throw it and while it's still on it's way toward the target I'll try to throw it again. I used to use bomb a lot but I've gotten out of the habit since usually the people I'm playing against aviod it without much problems. Now I just use everything and try to keep up a good pressure game. TL has so many options I've never seen two players that play alike.

edit: ok I have one tip. Probably the best use of boomerang possible is for edgeguarding. You won't get the comparison, but it's like ice climber's ice block chaser in melee. You just throw the boomerang out there at them and follow it. If they airdodge then follow them and fair. If they don't then nair/fair/whatever right after it hits them. If they're recovering below the stage then you can bait an airdodge then stagespike them. If they have a second jump I like to just be stupid and stupidly go for an up b kill. It usually misses but it's pretty awesome when it doesn't.

 

[BentoBox]

I'm no pro TL player but you should consider implementing some arrow cancelling in your play, you have nothing to lose and it would keep you in control. I believe I've seen in some TL AT YT guide that you could short hop, pull-out a bomb and AC when landing~ and that alone would've made it much harder for overswarm to approach you when ledge-hopping in your second match. I know you love bombs but spamming them at the risk of falling down into an exploitable pattern isn't really desirable.

 

[Overswarm]

arrow canceling is generally a bad idea against a campy ROB. That does the opposite of what you want.

There are two reasons to spam projectiles at ROB: to make him approach, or to make him take damage

Using smart projectile play for combos can be good, but that's a rarer occurance and is situational (and bombs are better at that than arrows anyway). Adding arrows to projectile spam just means ROB has a different, less dangerous, projectile to dodge. It does less damage and is even less likely to make him approach or give you an opening.

 

[QUIVO]

OS powershields arrows and boomerangs.

 

[QUIVO]

BUMP for update

 

[Miles.]

arrow canceling is generally a bad idea against a campy ROB. That does the opposite of what you want.

There are two reasons to spam projectiles at ROB: to make him approach, or to make him take damage

Using smart projectile play for combos can be good, but that's a rarer occurance and is situational (and bombs are better at that than arrows anyway). Adding arrows to projectile spam just means ROB has a different, less dangerous, projectile to dodge. It does less damage and is even less likely to make him approach or give you an opening.

I agree 100% bomb = such good situations and it covers you half the time in case things go bad.

Bombs > arrows.

 

[QUIVO]

Yea, arrows are ok. Camping with them is never really good unless they're arrow cancelled. People always see them coming in that situation and power shield them.

I'm going to a small local tournament now. I expect people to comment!

 

[Ezkl]

NIce Toon Link and good tips against rob. Would you happen to have any falco practice?

 

[clowsui]

Yeah
I would be his Falco practice, except that I haven't played him in a long time
Wait until September 29th or so...I play him on the 27th (monthly) so we'll get some recording done there.

 

[Ezkl]

Yeah
I would be his Falco practice, except that I haven't played him in a long time
Wait until September 29th or so...I play him on the 27th (monthly) so we'll get some recording done there.

Nice, do you have any tips about recovering from the chaingrab to spike? or just in general?

 

[VietGeek]

Press Up+B toward the ledge and you'll meteor cancel the spike.

 

[melito]

nice vids^^

 

[clowsui]

CG to spike is easy to get away from when you play a floaty character like TL with good recovery

just DI away and and airdodge at the same time, he really has no options but Fair or Bair but the former's really sh*tty and he's not going to get a strong Bair unless he's really really good at spacing + prediction so it's easy for you to get back or if you have another DJ then try to go for a stage spike or a gimp. don't be that nervous about the spike, ppl with good vert like TL have no trouble getting through it

 

[QUIVO]

Thanks guys.

Pretty much what Clowsui said. I think at like 30-40%ish you can DI away and get out. You might wanna try to DI away, airdodge and then zair immediately. I haven't tested it in awhile, but I know it can work. As for avoiding the spike, listen to Clowsui. You can try fastfalling it too if you have another jump and then just hop and up b sweet spot.

 

[QUIVO]

BUMP for update