PYP Mafia - Game Ova

[#HBC | Ryker]

Busy atm. I see I have about 6 alerts from this thread, I'll get to them later.

Xivii Short version of what I promised yesterday. Alex's Day 1 was legitimately good. He was moving the thread in positive directions and everything he did makes sense from a town perspective if you accept his whack-ass views on Poisoner and Bus Driver. He was responsive and my interactions with him left me feeling good about him. Now he's sunk his teeth into Soup and is being ********. However, I think it's more likely he's being ******** than scum because it's a suicide mission for scum Alex despite being given a million outs.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

My problem with this game right now is that you have Laundry spearheading the thread and foremost the direction by having the most post count, while other people are in the background. I want to make something clear: I only dropped Laundry because I think it wouldn't be an avenue worth pursuing and I didn't want to argue with him. Gheb's reasoning is completely solid and I believe he is far less in the wrong than Laundry who wants to facilitate every action someone makes against him. It's this passive-aggressive type where Laundry will complain about how much work he is doing at the stake of someone not necessarily liking that work, but arguing with that type of person gets you nowhere because in their eyes they will never be at fault regardless of alignment. Gheb is far more rational in this case and merely wanted Laundry to back up his statements, to which he made more walls that are going to be a chore to read.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

indirect OMGUS

Please stop calling it that. Literally no one else sees it that way.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Ranmaru's content is fair, and I feel he's like a mini-laundry for this thread right now. Double-checking people's statements and trying to push forward content at a staggering pace, which I don't believe in. The thread works better when things are natural and not demanding.

I need to read everything more intently but my thoughts on Ran haven't really changed. I don't know what to take from you still Ruy, but maybe I'm just being skeptical.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Before I do that, my impression thus far is that most people want Orbo for his lack of content, and possibly maven for the same thing too. This raises a question to me: Do you believe that everyone posting right now can be town? This is something I always consider and I do not like thinking that if you post a lot you must be town. It should come down to what you're posting about instead. In this case, Orbo's comments may be few and between but is there enough to really call him anything but null? I don't think so and I don't get where people such as Zen are saying he's scum.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I've changed my mind before this point but this is why I thought he was scummy:
1) His D0 pushes consisted of pushing for things he felt the safest--which changed at least twice (Poisoner/Decoy/Detective). Not necessarily scummy but this is probably the most likely position for scum to take; hence, skepticism of Zen's slot.
2) Part of his scumread came from the fact that I didn't interact with him--but his only posts attempting to do so were a post where he talked about me but never directed it at me (and got mad about the fact that I didn't respond to it) and a post where I did respond and he never continued the conversation. As a result, this point felt inaccurate and his desire for interaction felt forced or farced, either or.
3) His takes on my reads were all over the place. I heard him describe them as arrogant, wishy washy, impatient, nervous, or cautious. Those don't play nice together in my head, making me think he's not actually thinking I'm scum but moreso just throwing adjectives at my play until he finds something that sticks. This is why his wagon felt scatterbrained.
4) I felt he was trying to call me scum for scumhunting (when scumhunting was optional!)

That's probably it.


This olive branch just seems fake. First you trying to lynch me, now you're trying to work with me? I still don't buy it.

Laudry, I'm pretty sure I pushed for what I thought was safest and swapped from Detective, to Tailor, to Detective. Am I wrong for that?

Your point 4 falls flat because it isn't what happened. He bit on something in your scum hunting that you didn't have to do because you did it. No ****. ***** YOU CAN'T VOTE ME FOR PLAYING MAFIA BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE TO SIGN UP FOR THIS GAME! **** YOUR SCUM-ASS ****! VOTE: DUMBASS

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

My problem with maven is only that he makes excuses for the lack of effort, then doubles down and says, 'well, I've being doing stuff.' I feel he's different from Orbo in that regard that Orbo just plainly states he's busy and makes his comments fortright, while Maven postulates about how he doesn't care or doesn't have enough time. It doesn't excuse a full lack of effort when most of his posts thus far are to defend what little he's done. That's a main reason I suspect him.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I agree with others, particularly your point about his swap between calling the decoy pushers scummy to me being scum, that his recent posts have been somewhat scummy. Opportunistic is probably the most accurate word. Despite this, I have this weird PoV about the tailor push recently that I want to go back and confirm. I think Zen's right, I think mafia knows who our PR is. It's just dependent on what they gave us. If they gave us Bus Driver like I think they might've, then Maven being the first to push for Tailor doesn't look right for Mafia. Yes there's the argument that mafia would do that for town points but as their first push in the thread? I doubt that. The other interesting thing is if both Soup and I are town, then the poisoner push was town-fueled. I'm pretty sure that is the case, which makes it far more interesting.

Not just for you, but for anyone pursuing this line without our Town PR flipped, stay out of the wine.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Because I didn't like the answer. I wanted more from him than a bad generalization and it felt like answering that would've been giving him the cheat sheet with which he would try to lynch me. It comes to no surprise of mine that he's using what I said against me later in the thread but I honestly feel that no matter what I said he would have done that, just with less "walls suck" and more "this soup read is unfounded and laundry is scum making up bad reads". He wasn't trying to offer me an olive branch, he was offering me a trap. Sue me for not wanting to fall for it.

Contrary to popular belief, outlining why you want to push someone in a manner that is simple for others to understand is not likely to get you lynched unless you actually had no reasons and deserve it. In fact, I don't know HOW he could use your case as a way to lynch you more effectively than a refusal to cooperate. That's pretty much the easiest way to park a vote on you and let it sit.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I agree with Laundry's #384. What comes to mind is the burden of proof. If Gheb thought he was scum he should have brought the evidence forward on why he thought Laundry's push was bad, not asking for a summation instead. I do not think he genuinely believes Laundry is 'Established Scum' from his reasoning and actions so far. I also don't get why Gheb is acting as if Laundry's approach is *wrong* when Gheb scumreads him. Stating that it's no surprise he always scumreads people who scumread him signifies that he is talking about Laundry's actions regardless of alignment. Gheb's #381 feels like slight manipulation/emotion. Gheb's #282 also feels baity/goading, and I don't get why Gheb would act like this when he states that Laundry's push is bad, why push him to further a case that he feels that is bad and would not be interested in? To incriminate Laundry further. I feel Gheb is scum now. Not enough to switch my vote, and Maven still needs to respond to me, and produce more content on how he feels about the rest of the cast.

Laundry, what is an Olive Branch and how does it relate here?

I didn't take their interaction as that. I think Gheb tried to break down laundry's walls and get him to say more in less, which in my eyes is reasonable. They both kinda turned it into a pissing contest at the end where I don't think you can say that either of them was being rational or about who was baiting who. Why does Gheb get harsher treatment in your eyes when Laundry has been acting quite the same?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Then who is scum if Maven flips it? Normally I wouldn't care about it but my point of view goes right back to the Gheb/Zen part of the game. I don't think the 3 R's or Soup hold mafia at the moment and I'm not scum. That leaves a pool of Orbo/Gheb/Zen/Maven and Maven has given me reason to think he's not scum with Orbo.

Maven's an island. Every slot at the moment is an island except for you and I because of how I've been treating you. I'd have to read again. What makes you put him with Orbo?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

T H E O L I V E B R A N C H W A S F A K E

#HBC | Ryker and this is why I was skeptical and reacted the way I did.

Holy ****. Oh man. Oh god.

Could it be my outright refusal to cooperate and inflammatory remarks could possibly have lead a slot that thought I was possibly scum to a greater degree of certainty? Oh golly gee! How could this possibly have been prevented?

Nothing Gheb said there was outright wrong either (sans possibly the final comment). If you had responded to me like that, I'd be hounding you for a lynch as well.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

My choice remains relatively clear. I don't think that Orbo/Maven are both scum just not paying attention, but I could possibly bet on one. I don't share the same sentiment as Zen where he thinks Orbo was trying to fit in, because I think he'd honestly try a lot harder if that was the case. I have a weird feeling about Ryu that I cannot shake but perhaps I'll know more about the feeling based on a flip of either Maven/Orbo, definitely preferring Maven for now.

Vote: Maven

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Alright, look. I've been an ******* in the past. I was trying not to be an ******* in this game but it seems that I've failed on that to some level. Why on God's green earth is it sensible to be an ******* back? Especially when I have a long history of responding very poorly to that? Stop this, it will not help under any circumstance.

You won't accept an olive branch so why should anyone bother?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hell, you're the stubborn one here.

NOPE! NOT GONNA TOUCH IT!

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

That olive branch statement by laundry is hilarious. Making something out of nothing. Are you absolutely positive laundry is town Ryker? He's just instigating at this rate.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

P.S I will double down on my thought on one or the other with Maven/Laundry, so if Maven doesn't flip scum I will most likely bring this thread down to hell with me trying to get laundry to show humility or the noose.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Interesting realization : I think we have no bus driver in this game, based on how the early pushes went. If we had it, I figure there would have been more casual support for the poisoner. Instead, we had the tailor wagon instead. I wanna look at that.

ranmaru @Red Ryu help me out

Wine. Wine. Wine.

Not the good kind either.

Instead, talk to me about your problems with Zen as I see him in your scum list repeatedly.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That olive branch statement by laundry is hilarious. Making something out of nothing. Are you absolutely positive laundry is town Ryker? He's just instigating at this rate.

I think he's fallen down the rabbit hole. If he was scum, he'd have taken any of the million outs I've given him.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

P.S I will double down on my thought on one or the other with Maven/Laundry, so if Maven doesn't flip scum I will most likely bring this thread down to hell with me trying to get laundry to show humility or the noose.

Please don't. I don't need another Day of this.

Why is there a one-or-the-other Dichotomy between the two slots?

Xivii what is your position with Gheb?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Oops, I caught up. Now I really have to go.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Please don't. I don't need another Day of this.

Why is there a one-or-the-other Dichotomy between the two slots?

Xivii what is your position with Gheb?

Because that's really how I feel. I mean, I can see you thinking Laundry's just lost it but I also feel like laundry's sharp enough to pretend he's losing it so long as people townread him. I do it all the time. I really feel like Laundry would be willing to admit his faults unless I'm wrong, but who knows.

 

[Xivii]

I don't think so and I don't get where people such as Zen are saying he's scum.

I'm sure I'm the only one that's ever stated he's scummy. Everyone else has him as null.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm sure I'm the only one that's ever stated he's scummy. Everyone else has him as null.

People have him on the list. Pretty sure day is gonna end on either him or Maven, are you gonna hardpush for Orbo?

 

[Xivii]

@ Ran and Ryker I'll answer you guys later on tonight. Preferably after Orbo catches up and Ryu gives his D1 analysis. It will be regardless of whether or not those things happen though.

 

[Xivii]

People have him on the list. Pretty sure day is gonna end on either him or Maven, are you gonna hardpush for Orbo?

Not if he gives me what I want.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Honestly drew what the **** do you want from me at this point. I'm getting ****ing tired of this ****. My job is to lynch scum and I'm pushing who I think fits that ****ing description. I don't give a **** how reasonable you think gheb's being when his actions look scummy as balls to me--regardless of who the **** he's pushing. For ****'s sake man, what the **** do I have to do? Cowtow to some dumbass lynch on the slot with the lowst post count because it's obviously scum? **** that.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Gog****ingdammit. I want to replace out. I dib:t have the time for this ****.

:86:

 

[ranmaru]

Calm down. Take a breather.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I want you to stop pretending that Gheb's being unreasonable when he's pretty clearly outlined his thoughts on everything. You're misrepresenting him as an island as well. Soup's made it clear he still doesn't like you. Maven still doesn't like you. I think they're more in the right than you are. That's about half the game.

I want your Zen read.

 

[ranmaru]

I am eating and will get to things in a bit.

 

[Xivii]

Gorfdammit, I'mma have to do what I didn't want to do.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Honestly drew what the **** do you want from me at this point. I'm getting ****ing tired of this ****. My job is to lynch scum and I'm pushing who I think fits that ****ing description. I don't give a **** how reasonable you think gheb's being when his actions look scummy as balls to me--regardless of who the **** he's pushing. For ****'s sake man, what the **** do I have to do? Cowtow to some ******* lynch on the slot with the lowst post count because it's obviously scum? **** that.

Homie, chill out. I want to believe you're town more than I want scum because I think your capability as town is an asset, which is probably why you're not being dogpiled right now.

 

[ranmaru]

Soup will get to you on Gheb and we need to talk about Laundry.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Request Replacement

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Honestly I'm halfway tempted to say **** it and lynch me anyway. Maybe then you ****heads would realize there's maybe a grain of truth to the things I'm trying to say and maybe, just maybe, there's a reason for me thinking them.

But, nah, that'd be ******** and unreasonable.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

No, you get your ass back in here. Don't whip me into this and then dip. Don't ****ing do that.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Hell, since I'm so ******** and unreasonable, request replacement.

 

[ranmaru]

What the ****. Both of you stay in here boneheads. Laundry I read you as town and think Soup has it wrong with you and I think Ryker is also wrong but we can all talk it out instead of being ******* and replacing. Don't replace based on outbursts, please.

 

[Xivii]

If you guys replace out, I'm leaving as well. I only joined this game because of the player list.