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Project M v3.5 Blog #3 on Lucas' Recovery

JabbatheHutt

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Am I the only person who doesn't see the point in this, I mean can't you guys put these skills into creating something original with these characters? Instead of basing things off Melee why not make your own metagame.. Sakurai put his heart and soul into brawl. Melee is a thing of the past. Let it stay that way.
 

Paekoh

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about mutha F+++++ time. all the invincible frames that one has to ledge grab. From a ledge guard perspective its now easier to time your b air or n air from the ledge. falco and meta knight have it down but some other characters have bad timing. This will bring in more melee players due to the difficulty like in melee. Great progress pmbr
 

Paekoh

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Am I the only person who doesn't see the point in this, I mean can't you guys put these skills into creating something original with these characters? Instead of basing things off Melee why not make your own metagame.. Sakurai put his heart and soul into brawl. Melee is a thing of the past. Let it stay that way.
M is for melee remember that bruh
 

Alfonzo Bagpipez

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Am I the only person who doesn't see the point in this, I mean can't you guys put these skills into creating something original with these characters? Instead of basing things off Melee why not make your own metagame.. Sakurai put his heart and soul into brawl. Melee is a thing of the past. Let it stay that way.
Sakurai put his heart and soul into Melee, too. Said it was his "sharpest creation". And I don't know what you mean by original. It's not like they're making every character a Fox clone for the sake of balance.
 
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SteR ThA KiiD

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This is all sounding great can't wait for 3.5!!! ANY IDEA WHEN 3.5 IS COMING OUT???

PLEASE REPLY
 

Crawfish

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So this game starts to lean more towards Melee, this sucks. Nerfing, overcomplicating things, destroying character's recoveries. Because every match must be played hypee offensive where if you so much as even leave the stage "OMGYOUSHOULDGETKODBECAUSEYOULEFTTHESTAGE!"
Long recoveries are a part of the game, like Sonic's awesome recovery, I guess we should take a page from Smash4 and make all recoveries like Little Mac's, since you seem to hate people recovering from off-stage at all, in-fact, let's make ringouts like Mortal Kombat,
Where they kill you instantly, wouldn't that be more skillfull? You should get punished for trying to recover!
wut
 

D-idara

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I don't see why you're complaining. Is it suddenly wrong now that you have to actually work to get back to the stage. Having characters with extremely long recoveries makes edgegaurding in PM practically non-existent. Last time I checked the saying was "You must recover" and not "You will always recover." You're greatly exaggerating about how bad they're getting nerfed as well. Nobody is gonna end up like Little Mac. Nobody in the game's recovery is that bad. Also, Brawl was the only game with long recoveries. Lucas got the nerfs he deserved and even still, his recovery will still be way better than several characters such as Roy, Ganondorf, Falco, Yoshi, DK, and Captain Falcon.
They're making the game harder just to draw in the rest of the Melee fanbase that fails to understand that Smash shouldn't be a hard game, I'd spindash off the ledge and SD all the time if it wasn't for Sonic's recovery, guess I can't use Sonic anymore, they will ruin one of my favorite characters.

PM IS HARD ENOUGH AS IT IS, STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT EVEN HARDER FOR THE SAKE OF BEING HARDER!
 
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SmashShadow

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They're making the game harder just to draw in the rest of the Melee fanbase that fails to understand that Smash shouldn't be a hard game, I'd spindash off the ledge and SD all the time if it wasn't for Sonic's recovery, guess I can't use Sonic anymore, they will ruin one of my favorite characters.

PM IS HARD ENOUGH AS IT IS, STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT EVEN HARDER FOR THE SAKE OF BEING HARDER!
They're making it a better competitive game which was the whole point of PM in the first place. There's a reason that competitive players don't play walk-off stages. It eliminates the ledge-game (among other things) just likes overly good recoveries. If you spindash off the stage to the point that you lose control and can't recover I don't see how that's anybody's fault but your own.
 

JOE!

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They're making the game harder just to draw in the rest of the Melee fanbase that fails to understand that Smash shouldn't be a hard game, I'd spindash off the ledge and SD all the time if it wasn't for Sonic's recovery, guess I can't use Sonic anymore, they will ruin one of my favorite characters.

PM IS HARD ENOUGH AS IT IS, STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT EVEN HARDER FOR THE SAKE OF BEING HARDER!
Translation:

I suck, so therefor the game being harder and my refusal to adapt at all makes me absolutely flabbergasted. I would rather things be given to me for free without having to earn it with skill or clever play, so I'll whine here in hopes that my needs are noticed.
 

Zoma

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I get the feeling the 3.5 top tier is going to be strikingly similar to the Melee top tier.
 
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PlateProp

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I get the feeling the 3.5 top tier is going to be strikingly similar to the Melee top tier.
It's not like we can't all you know, rewrite our SD cards back to 3.02 if 3.5 is ass.
 

U-Throw

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They're making the game harder just to draw in the rest of the Melee fanbase that fails to understand that Smash shouldn't be a hard game, I'd spindash off the ledge and SD all the time if it wasn't for Sonic's recovery, guess I can't use Sonic anymore, they will ruin one of my favorite characters.

PM IS HARD ENOUGH AS IT IS, STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT EVEN HARDER FOR THE SAKE OF BEING HARDER!
Just because you cannot properly control your character does not constitute a change in the game from the PMDT. It is YOUR responsibility to learn to tap into your character's potential, YOUR responsibility to learn to use him properly, and YOUR responsibility to adapt to the changes made by the PMDT. It's not my responsibility, not the PMDT's, it's YOURS. If you can't tap into your character's potential and control him properly, then it's no-one's fault but yourself. The PMDT is not going to change a character based on what you want for him. You need to learn to control him. The PMDT cannot change a character based on your individual wants and needs because, otherwise, people who can properly control that character would be able to abuse the property you wanted because the game was "too hard." You need to learn to tap into your character's potential and control him properly because I can guarantee you that the PMDT is not going to conform and adapt to your childish, immature, individual wants and needs.
 

NickLeo

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They're making the game harder just to draw in the rest of the Melee fanbase that fails to understand that Smash shouldn't be a hard game, I'd spindash off the ledge and SD all the time if it wasn't for Sonic's recovery, guess I can't use Sonic anymore, they will ruin one of my favorite characters.

PM IS HARD ENOUGH AS IT IS, STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT EVEN HARDER FOR THE SAKE OF BEING HARDER!
so if PM is getting "even harder" then wouldn't it be harder for both you and for your opponent? wouldn't that simply make the game more competitive due to a higher skill ceiling and have rewards geared towards a greater understanding of the game?

I would like to thank the PMDT for all their efforts in fine-tuning such great game
 
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Sethlon

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I didn't actually see the distance nerf coming. I didn't even know they could change the tether distance. I thought that was a limitation which is why Ivysaur can grab from so far away.
Before now, that was true. Our wizards are still making more breakthroughs!
 

Daftatt

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I already have am extra SD card with 3.02 on it just in case, considering some characters are most likely getting unnecessary nerfs.
Why does anyone think this would work? Are you that resistant to change? Like I said before even in the worst case scenarios people are still going to all play 3.5. Does anyone here still play 2.5 because sonic was really good? No, because the PMBR nerfed him A LOT but he's still incredibly good and fun (admittedly more of an extreme case than what we'll be looking at in 3.5, but the point is nerfs don't ruin characters), it's a shame that anyone would expect anything less from the PMBR in 3.5 than improvement.

Even if your character is very slightly worse in comparison to 3.0, it still doesn't mean they're actually worse in the context of 3.5, metagames aren't that simple and every change to every other character affects how good or bad each individual character is. I'm tired of people equating a nerf with making a character worse, that would only be absolutely true if it was literally the only thing that was changed throughout the whole roster, a nerf cannot be determined to be either good or bad for the viability of your character in the next version without the entire context of changes and options for the rest of the cast, so unless you are truly afraid of "change" in it's most basic sense, I recommend you don't dwell on it, and especially don't predict disaster as it's a little insulting.
 
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Alex Night

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so if PM is getting "even harder" then wouldn't it be harder for both you and for your opponent? wouldn't that simply make the game more competitive due to a higher skill ceiling and have rewards geared towards a greater understanding of the game?

I would like to thank the PMDT for all their efforts in fine-tuning such great game
Here's the problem with that. One of the problems that Melee had with game design was how stiff the controls and how clunky the animations looked. Project M should be looked at as a successor to Melee rather than just Melee 2.0. It never should be another Melee and it never will because of the existence of Brawl characters.

That being said, I do appreciate the devs making controlling some characters harder as long as it rewards the user with movement options because Smash Bros is more about superior movement and positional advantages than twitch reflexes.
 
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EpixAura

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Forcing Lucas to rely on his Up-B more is a pretty big hit, but it's a change that I really like. Lucas will play very similarly to Falco now: strong neutral game facilitated by a projectile, good combos, plenty of kill setups, and a generally unsafe recovery. Sort a glass cannon character, which is a concept that I REALLY love.
I don't think his viability should take too much of a hit as a result of this, which is really what I'm most worried about with other characters.
 
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Sardonyx

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Why does anyone think this would work? Are you that resistant to change? Like I said before even in the worst case scenarios people are still going to all play 3.5. Does anyone here still play 2.5 because sonic was really good? No, because the PMBR nerfed him A LOT but he's still incredibly good and fun (admittedly more of an extreme case than what we'll be looking at in 3.5, but the point is nerfs don't ruin characters), it's a shame that anyone would expect anything less from the PMBR in 3.5 than improvement.

Even if your character is very slightly worse in comparison to 3.0, it still doesn't mean they're actually worse in the context of 3.5, metagames aren't that simple and every change to every other character affects how good or bad each individual character is. I'm tired of people equating a nerf with making a character worse, that would only be absolutely true if it was literally the only thing that was changed throughout the whole roster, a nerf cannot be determined to be either good or bad for the viability of your character in the next version without the entire context of changes and options for the rest of the cast, so unless you are truly afraid of "change" in it's most basic sense, I recommend you don't dwell on it, and especially don't predict disaster as it's a little insulting.
I did say just in case, since there's been kind of a trend of when a character does exceptionally well, or people complain about a character because they don't know how to deal with some options, they get nerfed. I'm all open to changed with my character, since it can open new options, but ---> IF <---- I see the build as bad AFTER I play it, then I will continue to play 3.02.
 

Sour Supreme

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They're making the game harder just to draw in the rest of the Melee fanbase that fails to understand that Smash shouldn't be a hard game, I'd spindash off the ledge and SD all the time if it wasn't for Sonic's recovery, guess I can't use Sonic anymore, they will ruin one of my favorite characters.

PM IS HARD ENOUGH AS IT IS, STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT EVEN HARDER FOR THE SAKE OF BEING HARDER!
Hey dingus, I don't know it you've realized, but the game you want to play is already available.

It's called Brawl. Take out the SD Card and stop complaining.

I mean honest to god, in the same fashion that you're claiming the majority of PM's Dev Team and following to be "Melee Extremists", you are a total Brawl Extremist. The point of casual play is that you're enjoying the game regardless of tech knowledge, which means it shouldn't matter when you can't recover from certain situations, just have fun with it.

You're not a casual player, you're an Everything In This Game Should Be About As Easy as Wiping player.

Well I've got news for ya bud, you better not flush yet because, you missed a spot. It's backwards thinking at it's finest. Rather than acknowledge the game's changes and play casually (Which is certainly possible), you constantly show your displeasure with game's progress.

This game is great to play casually, but accepting that it is geared towards competition is inevitable, because that's PM's point.

You might as well just mod the new characters and costumes into Brawl. Honestly. Stop complaining, for the good of everyone.
 
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Zoma

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It's not like we can't all you know, rewrite our SD cards back to 3.02 if 3.5 is ***.
I think we all know that would never happen. It's the nature of patches that everyone is going to play the newest version, and if you're not, you're stuck in the past. Just look at the reactions everyone gets if they even hint at liking 3.02 or wanting to keep using it after the update comes out. The sarcastic and the unpleasant come out of the woodwork.
 
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Zoma

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What are you talking about?

I was implying that D-idara wants PM to be like that. Not that that's in any way an accurate description.
Interesting. Either you can't read, because D-idara is describing the current state of PM, or you honestly think that baseless hyperbole and insults are how human beings communicate.
 
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Sour Supreme

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Interesting. Either you can't read, because D-idara is describing the current state of PM, or you honestly think that baseless hyperbole and insults are how human beings communicate.
For your information, D-idara has always complained about PM, even 3.02. You were too blind to see that he complained about current aspects like fast falling.

He is continuously bothering other members by endlessly complaining about something we're all trying to enjoy.

You're defending someone in an argument you haven't even been present for. Please, stop.
 

Shin F.

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Interesting. Either you can't read, because D-idara is describing the current state of PM, or you honestly think that baseless hyperbole and insults are how human beings communicate.
What are you smoking? Cause whatever it is, I'd like some. The only thing D-idara is doing is complaining that PM is being made a bit more like Melee (which is honestly a good thing), complaining that it's being made harder for the sake of it (it's not), and complaining that they SD as Sonic (which means that they just aren't good at playing as Sonic).
 
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Zoma

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For your information, D-idara has always complained about PM, even 3.02. You were too blind to see that he complained about current aspects like fast falling.

He is continuously bothering other members by endlessly complaining about something we're all trying to enjoy.

You're defending someone in an argument you haven't even been present for. Please, stop.
Whatever problems you've had in the past are irrelevant, considering they have nothing to do with the posts here. Even so, wanting changes or to keep things the way they are does not warrant your rage.

What are you smoking? Cause whatever it is, I'd like some. The only thing D-idara is doing is complaining that PM is being made a bit more like Melee (which is honestly a good thing), complaining that it's being made harder for the sake of it (it's not), and complaining that they SD as Sonic (which means that they just aren't good at playing as Sonic).
And, in response, he was told to play Brawl. So, without the changes D-idara is complaining about (i.e. the ones that haven't happened) PM is the same as Brawl, easy enough to wipe your ass with, etc.
 

Sour Supreme

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Whatever problems you've had in the past are irrelevant, considering they have nothing to do with the posts here. Even so, wanting changes or to keep things the way they are does not warrant your rage.


And, in response, he was told to play Brawl. So, without the changes D-idara is complaining about (i.e. the ones that haven't happened) PM is the same as Brawl, easy enough to wipe your *** with, etc.
Dude, he just complained about Fast Falling, and SDing. Too things that he personally acknowledged as being in the game.
D-idara said:
PM IS HARD ENOUGH AS IT IS, STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT EVEN HARDER FOR THE SAKE OF BEING HARDER!
 

Zoma

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Dude, he just complained about Fast Falling, and SDing. Too things that he personally acknowledged as being in the game.
I see nothing about fastfalling.

Is your problem that he said the game is hard enough as it is? I see a ton of assumptions there, if so.
 

Shin F.

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Whatever problems you've had in the past are irrelevant, considering they have nothing to do with the posts here. Even so, wanting changes or to keep things the way they are does not warrant your rage.
What rage? D-idara's the one who's speaking in all caps and raging over these changes. Not Psykid.
So, without the changes D-idara is complaining about PM is the same as Brawl, easy enough to wipe your *** with, etc.
Putting words into the opposing side's mouth? Really? How embarrassing.

This is not Psykid's argument at all and it never was. D-idara has complained numerous times, here and elsewhere, about changes that were made to PM in order to make it more like Melee or more competitive. Every time I see him talking about it, he's done nothing but complain that they're making it too hard.

In other words, he wants the game to be easier. Psykid was not saying that PM is easy enough to wipe your ass with, he's saying that this is the way D-idara wants the game to be - which, from reading his posts, is true.
You're not a casual player, You're an Everything In This Game Should Be About As Easy as Wiping My A*ss player.
 
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Sour Supreme

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I see nothing about fastfalling.

Is your problem that he said the game is hard enough as it is? I see a ton of assumptions there, if so.
Yeah, pretty much what my boi Shin said.

He complains about fast falling, not that this argument is worth searching for the quotes.
 

Sour Supreme

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And yet, D-idara is not the one insulting people. Also: two people can rage.


Please see:
Don't understand how you think that's the same as the words you put in my mouth. At that point I was addressing D-idara's recovery complaints. When he brought up other elements in his second post, I addressed him differently, no longer referencing Brawl as something that suits his every need. (Which is a game that will never exist and would be boring af to play.)

Like I said, you weren't present for this situation, which has spanned over many posts. Considering you can't even follow the part of the argument in this comment section, you should seriously stop.

It's quite distasteful.
 

Zoma

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Don't understand how you think that's the same as the words you put in my mouth. At that point I was addressing D-idara's recovery complaints.
"The game you want to play is already available." You told him to quit playing Project M and play Brawl instead solely because of his recovery complaints. The game he wants to play is Project M with changes in recovery. If you meant something else, it's not what you said.
 
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