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Project M Social Thread

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jalued

jalued

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CSDragon said:
Yeah, and i was always checking for the next update.
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always checking for the next update and a "quick fix" to problems dilutes any metagame development. There is also no evidence that there would be enough information to apply balance changes on a monthly basis. As said before, it's been 10 years since melee was released and people still argue the tier list
 
GP&B

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Welp, that's what I get for skimming the thread until the last page.

JCz afro for God of Smash.
 
CSDragon

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jalued said:
always checking for the next update and a "quick fix" to problems dilutes any metagame development. There is also no evidence that there would be enough information to apply balance changes on a monthly basis. As said before, it's been 10 years since melee was released and people still argue the tier list
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That's honestly a dumb argument. You can say that for any competitive game. The only difference between melee and other competitive games is where they did receive constant attention and update, melee got nothing. And it's created this super stagnate mindset of "THIS is melee. anything else is NOT melee"

I've never seen a community more stuck in it's imbalances. The mere thought of nerfing fox is outragous to the community, but if this game was made by capcom, Super Hyper Turbo- Melee 2013 Arcade Edition would have come out and fox would have been nerfed 5 years ago

Part of the reason I like the idea of project M is that we can have balance patches and regulate the game
 
Divinokage

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Ok.. Take Ryu in SF for example.. in Vanilla he was great! But then they changed his crouching medium kick to have less range and more laggy when blocked. It was an essential tool to poke around certain other moves in order for him to gain ground and to combo. So ya, that's ONE move which removes his ability to fight certain matchups. That's what I mean when I say it's completely ridiculous that a game can be perfectly balanced.

Now in a game of Smash imagine how many scenarios you have to be aware of.. Changing one move can make one character either broken or useless.
 
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witty/pretty
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CSDragon said:
This is actually correct. I have no clue why they stopped updating.
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Several members of the PMBR (a good chunk of them formerly making B+, mind you) have cited B+'s update schedule as its main problem, and to that end the cause of B+'s demise. This is because it sort of killed any motivation to learn a matchup over patiently waiting for a nerf to come a few weeks later. So, for Project M, a lot of it is designed around the community putting in their own metagame for these characters first, and then the updates work off of that. I don't entirely know how a MOBA game functions, but I would assume it works very, very differently-- though I know a few of my friends complain about reactionary nerfs related to them, so maybe it's still not the best plan on there, either.
 
GP&B

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CSDragon said:
That's honestly a dumb argument. You can say that for any competitive game. The only difference between melee and other competitive games is where they did receive constant attention and update, melee got nothing. And it's created this super stagnate mindset of "THIS is melee. anything else is NOT melee"

I've never seen a community more stuck in it's imbalances. The mere thought of nerfing fox is outragous to the community, but if this game was made by capcom, Super Hyper Turbo- Melee 2013 Arcade Edition would have come out and fox would have been nerfed 5 years ago
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PM is working with a game series that never in its lifetime received major updates of any kind besides brand new installments. The community is, by nature, very attuned to one particular definition and is unsurprisingly dissonant to major changes. Yes, how sensitive some people are to changes is rather obnoxious, but you're also completely ignoring that Smash is not a Capcom game and did not receive ~yearly updates to the core game. To expect the community to be perfectly accepting of frequent changes is irrational.
 
jalued

jalued

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CSDragon said:
That's honestly a dumb argument. You can say that for any competitive game. The only difference between melee and other competitive games is where they did receive constant attention and update, melee got nothing. And it's created this super stagnate mindset of "THIS is melee. anything else is NOT melee"

I've never seen a community more stuck in it's imbalances. The mere thought of nerfing fox is outragous to the community, but if this game was made by capcom, Super Hyper Turbo- Melee 2013 Arcade Edition would have come out and fox would have been nerfed 5 years ago
Click to expand...
If nintendo had bothered to have a harddrive for it's consoles then I'm sure smash would have received updates. But the case is that it's awkward to regularly update Project M and is up to personal preference. If a character is seen to be incredibly unbalanced then it will be fixed in one of the earlier patches.

After this it is up to the players to develop the metagame
 
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Again, it should be remembered: It took until ~2008 for the official tier list to acknowledge Jigglypuff as anything above mid-tier. Metagame development in smash games aren't, er, well-known for being lightning-fast.
 
CSDragon

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@Gamedominator06: I don't expect them to. I expect it to be better for the game though. And I expect the community to (eventually) evolve to fit a new and improved system. After all, most smash players do play other fighting games.

@jalued It's the player's job to create and evolve the metagame, it's the creator's job to regulate it. Unregulated metagame has the potential to result in brawl's metagame. Campy and unfun. Not that I think that P:M would ever go there, but it's still possible even in a high-energy game (remember the Morigan meta in UMVC3?)
 
jalued

jalued

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CSDragon said:
@Gamedominator06: I don't expect them to. I expect it to be better for the game though. And I expect the community to (eventually) evolve to fit a new and improved system. After all, most smash players do play other fighting games.

@jalued It's the player's job to create and evolve the metagame, it's the creator's job to regulate it. Unregulated metagame results in brawl's metagame. Campy and unfun.
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unregulated metagame also resulted in the melee metagame:

That may be true, and if that did ever happen then the game may require an update to reduce defensive options. BUt this does not require a montly update, I'm thinking years
 
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witty/pretty
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Honestly? Most fighting game update systems are trash. I think KOF13's console release is the only official one that worked out nicely (though I think that's just an amazingly balanced game as a whole). Especially capcom. So much of their updates are so damn reactionary and extreme, to the point where a character can go from being really good to really bad (yang in SF4 is a good example), or in the case of sean, one of the best characters in the game to the absolute worst. Working in subtleties is the most important thing you should do when balancing, because like Kage just said, small changes can mean the whole world if you do it just right.
 
GP&B

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3S Sean, never forget.

But seriously, PM's ~biannual updates are more than enough to allow for a lot of development and provide more than enough information/feedback without bogging down the user side. I really don't think you could ask for more than that without it being a massive pain to update all the time.
 
GaretHax

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Divinokage said:
Ok.. Take Ryu in SF for example.. in Vanilla he was great! But then they changed his crouching medium kick to have less range and more laggy when blocked. It was an essential tool to poke around certain other moves in order for him to gain ground and to combo. So ya, that's ONE move which removes his ability to fight certain matchups. That's what I mean when I say it's completely ridiculous that a game can be perfectly balanced.

Now in a game of Smash imagine how many scenarios you have to be aware of.. Changing one move can make one character either broken or useless.
Click to expand...
exactly, the change to ike's neutral b could buff dk's recovery in the matchup, screwing with zeldas throws could ruin half the cast or make Zelda unable to compete with some characters. And i know this must be how the pmbr works. But im really glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way. Learning matchups and how to deal with your character's, and opponent's tools is a much better course of action than asking dev's for "balance" changes. Expecting 50-50 matchups across the board is nonsense and would quite frankly be boring, and if some characters are inevitably going to be on top, why not the spacies, shiek, and jiggs? All of them can be beaten and aren't insurmountable behemoths by a long shot. (Except for NTSC d-throw shiek to 66% of the melee roster)

:phone:
 
CSDragon

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Yeah, small changes mean big things, no arguing there. Updates, regardless of how frequent or infrequent, should be careful decisions, not wreckless knee-jerks
 
GP&B

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****ing in-game stage striking? I cannot even fathom the level of wizardry behind this project.
 
Wobbly Headed Bob

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I can't watch ****ing streams. Everybody that ends up changing the music files has such god-awful taste in music.

It's like "HURR DURR I LIEK ELECTRIC GUITARS, BUT I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABUT ROCK. I LIEK REMIXES OF 3 NOTE JRPG THEMES WITH THE SAME TWANGY GUITAR TONES AND ****LOAD OF RANDOM PINCHED HARMONICS."

Just leave the music as it is please. Not all of us are musically uneducated weeaboos.

OH, and all the ****ing medleys. Medleys are the most tasteless garbage in videogame music.
 
Juushichi

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noirscythe said:
I can't watch ****ing streams. Everybody that ends up changing the music files has such god-awful taste in music.

It's like "HURR DURR I LIEK ELECTRIC GUITARS, BUT I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABUT ROCK. I LIEK REMIXES OF 3 NOTE JRPG THEMES WITH THE SAME TWANGY GUITAR TONES AND ****LOAD OF RANDOM PINCHED HARMONICS."

Just leave the music as it is please. Not all of us are musically uneducated weeaboos.

OH, and all the ****ing medleys. Medleys are the most tasteless garbage in videogame music.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d3r-AZMI1Y

This is what you are/sound like.
 
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