Project M Social Thread

[Stevo]

minus any action other than aerials or airdodges.

 

[ZaXXoR]

Good Job guys, It's nice to see someones doing something about Brawl I cant wait for the 15th

 

[OmegaMuffin]

Which is basically every action...

Besides jumps, specials, and zairs

 

[Strong Badam]

air dodge -> zair
lolol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The only difference between brawl and melee's hitstun is that you can interrupt the hitstun with aerials or air dodges in brawl.

Why is it then that it still possible to do short combos in Brawl before your opponent can move?

Never understood this, if its not hitstun "stunning" them, what is it?

 

[Iceman12]

Say I download demo 1 today, then demo 2 gets released on the 15th. To delete demo 1 all I would have to do is delete the files on my sd card and put the new codes on right? And would I have to re-run the demo installer again.

 

[Iceman12]

Why is it then that it still possible to do short combos in Brawl before your opponent can move?

Never understood this, if its not hitstun "stunning" them, what is it?

They are only possible because said moves have such low knockback that your opponent is locked into it. The move isn't stunning them or sending them into tumble. Sheiks ftilt in vbarlw is the perfect example.

 

[Archangel]

Why are people discussing brawl. If it was worth talking about this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

They are only possible because said moves have such low knockback that your opponent is locked into it. The move isn't stunning them or sending them into tumble. Sheiks ftilt in vbarlw is the perfect example.

So they are locked into it, but they aren't in stun?

Makes sense.

Why are people discussing brawl. If it was worth talking about this thread wouldn't exist.

Some people don't like footsies =/= bad game

I know "lolbarwl" is an easy way to get cheap laughs, but this is just stupid lol

 

[Strong Badam]

It's referred to as non-tumble hitstun, as you go into stun but aren't in the animation you can cancel into air dodge or an aerial. When sent into this type of hitstun, trajectory DI has no effect in vBrawl. This is what makes Pikachu and Falco's chaingrabs work. This has been fixed in Project M

 

[Samus-T]

Speaking of brawl combos XD

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?v=PWQVcevlo7s

 

[Rikana]

I don't get it. What did you link to?

 

[Yeroc]

Let's be clear Grim. Brawl is a bad game. Not because of footsies or "it's boring" or whatever. Things like non-tumble hitstun that SB mentioned, and a bunch (really, you'd be surprised) of other coding oversights stemming from a game aimed at a casual audience with no regard to the deeper repercussions of their implementation add up to a pretty crappy game, on the whole. And it's not just competitive players saying this. Every casual player I know says they can't stand Brawl, because it's dumbed down garbage. They're all still playing either Brawl+, Brawl-, or Melee now. All of them that I show PM to tell me it looks to be one of the most exciting things they've ever seen as far as Smash games go.

 

[Samus-T]

I don't get it. What did you link to?

Did the link not work? :O

 

[Revven]

but for some reason some testers (sniper fox's stream) think that you cant jump out of hit stun as quickly as in melee, and that you fall too far. Not to mention that the melee players couldnt play fox, falco or marth very well, and that they all felt off

We have told SniperFox why this is, he keeps forgetting however. It's not because hitstun is off, it's because of the SCD bugs we have been telling you guys for months, that have only been dealt with in temporary ways. And by temporary, that means reverting them to Brawl SCD, essentially, for those specific actions. Which only make a very, very minimal difference, which is by 1 frame, which is why it would be bothering said Melee players.

Or, they simply can't get over Brawl's aesthetic looks and will continue to think something is wrong (as is the case with many players before). Either way, hitstun is not off at all.

Edit: To clarify, using Brawl SCD temporarily means, for example the tumble animations, they will hit the floor earlier than in Melee. That's it. Has no bearing on hitstun being greater, gravity being greater, or whatever.

 

[Comeback Kid]

Some people don't like footsies =/= bad game

Actually, Brawl being a bad game is a valid opinion to have.

What fighting game can you think of that's purely footsies and any good? Note: you can't use Brawl as an example.

 

[Yeroc]

It's less to do with footsies, and more to do with the fact that there's nothing that really can come out of footsies. So the game never strays far from neutral territory. There's no tension. Unless you're playing a character that has something, which is usually an infinite or some other oversight that doesn't allow the other player much if any control over the situation. Bad neutral game / ToDs is a weird juxtaposition of extremes that to me make for a very unattractive mechanics package.

 

[OmegaMuffin]

air dodge -> zair
lolol

That doesn't count, you're cancelling air dodge with a zair >_>

 

[genkaku]

disgruntled fox mains confirmed for PM

 

[Kink-Link5]

Brawl wouldn't be so bad if attacking wasn't so difficult. There's no reason to approach since mastering defense is far easier and more effective as a strategy. Brawl is just to hard to play at a competitive level compared to games that offer initiative, like say, almost any other competitive action game. Lack of movement options + lack of rewards + lack of safe attacks + overly powerful shields = No sum game.

I mean, ****, there are quite a lot of attacks in Brawl that have less flinch than recovery, causing YOU TO GET PUNISHED FOR SUCCESSFULLY LANDING AN ATTACK.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Let's be clear Grim. Brawl is a bad game. Not because of footsies or "it's boring" or whatever. Things like non-tumble hitstun that SB mentioned, and a bunch (really, you'd be surprised) of other coding oversights stemming from a game aimed at a casual audience with no regard to the deeper repercussions of their implementation add up to a pretty crappy game, on the whole. And it's not just competitive players saying this. Every casual player I know says they can't stand Brawl, because it's dumbed down garbage. They're all still playing either Brawl+, Brawl-, or Melee now. All of them that I show PM to tell me it looks to be one of the most exciting things they've ever seen as far as Smash games go.

Yet Brawl has a huge following worldwide.

Also it was not designed to be competitive.

Checkmate.

 

[Yeroc]

I can't and won't comment on the tastes of others. Null argument.

 

[Mera Mera]

Quick question... did auto cancel frames exist in Melee? Or are those just in Brawl (the thing where if you land on frame x you get less endlag (or none?)? And either way, are they in PM? And if they are in there, are they changed to be like Melee's frames? ...or?

 

[Comeback Kid]

Also it was not designed to be competitive.

Checkmate.

This statement means that even a scoreless single player game with video speed runs is more competitive than Brawl.

 

[standardtoaster]

BlackRain, they existed on many moves in melee.

 

[Anth0ny]

After playing Kid Icarus, I'm confident that a higher up forced Sakurai to dumb down Brawl to appeal to the Wii Sports crowd. Kid Icarus is deep as ****. Smash 4 is in safe hands as long as there isn't another casual gamer revolution...

 

[Giygacoal]

Or perhaps Sakurai actually gained talent since 2008.

 

[Comeback Kid]

After playing Kid Icarus, I'm confident that a higher up forced Sakurai to dumb down Brawl to appeal to the Wii Sports crowd. Kid Icarus is deep as ****. Smash 4 is in safe hands as long as there isn't another casual gamer revolution...

I haven't played the new Icarus game, but I've heard it's a fun but simple action adventure game with on rail shooter sections. I don't see how any of that translates into renouncing the casual revolution in fighting games. Especially when the public accepts whatever he releases under the Smash label.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

Anybody else heard about CISPA? I love it when lawmakers become the puppets of corporations.

 

[iLink]

I haven't played the new Icarus game, but I've heard it's a fun but simple action adventure game with on rail shooter sections. I don't see how any of that translates into renouncing the casual revolution in fighting games. Especially when the public accepts whatever he releases under the Smash label.

The multiplayer aspect of it can be pretty deep and involve good strategy.

 

[CSDragon]

The multiplayer aspect of it can be pretty deep and involve good strategy.

I wouldn't say that, but it's definitely fun.

Well, then again, I've only played Free For All

Also: Nintendo Wifi lags.

Still fun though.

 

[iLink]

I wouldn't say that, but it's definitely fun.

Well, then again, I've only played Free For All

FFA is a cluster**** lol. Just run around with your strongest weapon. Light vs Dark is what I was referring to.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Light v Dark is a lot of fun. I got bored after the first couple days of playing with randoms and destroying them, though. Combine that with finishing the game, and I stopped playing it by the Monday after it came out. Which is too bad, because there a lot of cool weapons, and I loved those Speed+4 Beam Claws. It'd be cool to do a team Light v Dark tournament, but I don't know enough people who have the game. If it was on the Wii and playable with a GC controller, that'd be awesome.

Also, Brawl is a fun game as long as you don't try to compare it to Melee and ignore it's major problems.

 

[I R MarF]

It's less to do with footsies, and more to do with the fact that there's nothing that really can come out of footsies. So the game never strays far from neutral territory. There's no tension. Unless you're playing a character that has something, which is usually an infinite or some other oversight that doesn't allow the other player much if any control over the situation. Bad neutral game / ToDs is a weird juxtaposition of extremes that to me make for a very unattractive mechanics package.

Yeroc is right. There are footsie heavy games like Street Fighter IV, but the punishes are extremely strong when an opening is finally found making it somewhat interesting to watch. Brawl is strong defense compounded by extremely weak offense.

Yet Brawl has a huge following worldwide.

Also it was not designed to be competitive.

Checkmate.

If Brawl was the first entry in the smash bros series and didn't have a competitively deep game like Melee to precede it... I honestly doubt a competitive community would have formed. High expectations and disappointed fans forced the status onto it.

Not saying you shouldn't like Brawl, but it is a pretty tragic disappointment, and every miserable second of its existence is thanks to Melee who jump started a community which shouldn't exist and modders. Sorry for the harshness... but I have a big beef with brawl.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Anybody else heard about CISPA? I love it when lawmakers become the puppets of corporations.

This **** has been going on since 1998 and is nothing new in the slightest. Same bill under a different name is kind of the way things work in the legislative branch.

Besides which, most bills like this were already passed long ago and nearly all of these "New" ones are simply akin to copyright bills: Broadening the extent to which the bills already in place have strength.



Please give Wario a Bicep Polish over his crappy laughing taunt.

 

[Shadic]

Please give Wario a Bicep Polish over his crappy laughing taunt.

I thought you wanted the demo out on time?

 

[Kink-Link5]

I don't want anything on time if it means I don't get to play as Squiggly I mean Ice Climbers.

 

[9Kplus1]

Yeah, release the demo two weeks later than promised.

 

[Kink-Link5]

And with a fifth of the cast missing.

 

[Meru.]

I can't and won't comment on the tastes of others. Null argument.

All right then but in that case I don't understand why are you saying this

(...) add up to a pretty crappy game, on the whole. And it's not just competitive players saying this. Every casual player I know says they can't stand Brawl, because it's dumbed down garbage.

I also can't see what it adds to your point.