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Project M Social Thread

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Haloedhero

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If we ever gain the ability to fully add Mewtwo, those animations would need polish if we even used them.

They are head and shoulders above any other Mewtwo animations I've seen, and they're frankly better than most animation hacks I've seen in general, but they're still not where they'd need to be to be a part of project m.

However, they would be a solid base to work from....

:phone:
 

Pimpfish

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FF7 ????


I'm not gonna be one of those people who hates on FF7, as it is a decent game, but you mentioning FF7 as your example to being superior to Chrono Trigger makes me unsure if I should fully trust your opinion.

I will admit I am biased to RPGs on the Super Nintendo a little bit though.

Which games, other than FF7, would you say are superior to Chrono Trigger?
sorry, this is a few pages back but needs to be addressed. the makers of chrono trigger put a lot of work into the game. The game they made is pretty epic regardless of opinion on which game is better. chrono trigger is amazing.
 

ph00tbag

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This part I mean. Like it sounds like "Make a line not look like a line and it becomes nonlinear."
It's a gross simplification of the goal, though. The game is still non-linear because the path through the game isn't explicitly laid out before the player; they have to find it based on their ability to recognize patterns in the world, and on their exploration. In a sense, the player drives their own progression. If the designer is really good (like the guy who designed Redder), they can allow for multiple paths through the game, but still keep the solution to the overall puzzle more or less the same. In the end, it's still the player that tells the story. The aspect of non-linear games that makes them so deep is that you're allowed to create a more complex goal than "find a point somewhere to the right and beat the final boss." In that light, enemy placement becomes unimportant.

I'm just saying that basing your judgement of non-linear games on enemy placement and the difficulty of the platforming is naturally going to make them look bad, because that's not what they're about at all. When you say they're all bad because of their enemy placement and platforming, you should wholly expect to be called ignorant.

I think a high learning curve is a weakness. Difficulty for all practical purposes is equivalent to consistency, in a game where you don't have the luxury of being inconsistent. We can theorize what a character can potentially do, and in many cases it is good to push those limits for the sake of innovation, but it is certainly a bad idea to attempt innovation in a tournament setting. I dare argue that if you can control an extremely difficult character that the character is no longer difficult by definition.

Additionally, nonlinear characters like Fox/Falco strongly encourage sub-optimal decision-making in a match and it is hard to determine the correct choice simply because of the sheer amount of alternatives available. These imperfect decisions lead to momentum shifts and are a great way to get killed in general. DoH once jokingly proded at me with "What's wrong, too many options?" and he scoffed a little but then I said "Actually, yes." and I think he immediately understood what I was getting at.
Even if it can be considered a weakness, it's a weakness that's only as damaging to a character's success as the player playing them. It's not a weakness that affects each player of the character equally. For instance, every Ganondorf player has to work around the fact that he has very few safe options for escaping pressure. No matter how good you are at keeping all of Ganon's options in your head, that one factor will limit you just as much as it limits someone picking up Ganon for the very first time. For Fox, this is not the case. He's only as bad as the player playing him. And in Fox's case, it's the only weakness that isn't totally overwhelmed by his strengths. In the end, it makes this so called weakness pretty insubstantial.
 

Stevo

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sorry, this is a few pages back but needs to be addressed. the makers of chrono trigger put a lot of work into the game. The game they made is pretty epic regardless of opinion on which game is better. chrono trigger is amazing.
I agree? I can't tell if you are arguing against me or not....

Chrono Trigger is definitely great. I'm arguing that someone who thinks FF7 is clearly better than Chrono Trigger may not be trustworthy and/or was born in the 90s.

:phone:
 

Haloedhero

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^ I disagree. I was born in 84 and never played chrono trigger. Then, when I was told how great it was and tried to go back and play it in ~2000, I just couldn't get into it.

Which game is better is opinion, but I personally found FFVII much more engaging.

I don't see how you can say one is better than the other as they're from completely different eras with completely different standards.

"I don't think I can trust someone with a different opinion. I'll just assume he doesn't know what he's talking about to reinforce my original opinion instead of having an open mind." lol
 

NeoZ

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I agree? I can't tell if you are arguing against me or not....

Chrono Trigger is definitely great. I'm arguing that someone who thinks FF7 is clearly better than Chrono Trigger may not be trustworthy and/or was born in the 90s.

:phone:
I don't see how being born in the 90's would make someone not like CT.
 

JCaesar

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A lot of young people have a preconceived notion in their head that 2D = bad game. I'd argue that it's quite the opposite.
 

Haloedhero

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^That too. That's actually a point against his argument, as saying someone born in the 90s would have a different opinion is basically admitting that nostalgia plays a part in your opinion if the game, which means you really can't say which is better.

Edit: Urg. Late.

:phone:
 

RaphaelRobo

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A lot of young people have a preconceived notion in their head that 2D = bad game. I'd argue that it's quite the opposite.
2D doesn't mean it's a bad game. 2D just means that it doesn't have three dimensions in it. Some of my favorite games are 2D, and I'm still young. I was born in the 90s, and started playing games when I was 5.

Now that I think about it, though, a lot of my friends like Brawl more then Melee because it has better graphics, and they don't care about the gameplay. In their opinion, graphics are more important than gameplay. So, I guess I'm the exception, and my generation only care about the surface, and what's underneath doesn't matter.

Although, I wrote an RPG that had no graphics, and they all found it a lot of fun. Only a couple wanted graphics (although in my opinion they'd ruin the game), so maybe it's only a few people that are superficial.

Are you guys still discussing old RPGs in the IRC? If so, I'm going to join it.
 

Skieth

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Since we're discussing chrono trigger in a thread about a really ambitious fan project; heres a video of a long-abandoned chrono trigger fan remake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=233kmUiW-Rc

Legend has it that square shut them down, but I have no idea. Skip to 5:40 to see actual ingame footage. Its a damn shame companies snuff out cool projects like that. I'm glad the brawl modding community has been mostly left alone.
 

JCaesar

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There's a big difference between Project M (a mod) and that (recreating a copyrighted game). Nintendo can't shut us down because we're not doing anything illegal. We're not even officially condoning hacking your Wii, so there isn't even a grey area.
 

jalued

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There's a big difference between Project M (a mod) and that (recreating a copyrighted game). Nintendo can't shut us down because we're not doing anything illegal. We're not even officially condoning hacking your Wii, so there isn't even a grey area.
Lets just hope that the american government doesn't make it illegal :/

edit: is PM at northwest manifest?
 

Stevo

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^ I disagree. I was born in 84 and never played chrono trigger. Then, when I was told how great it was and tried to go back and play it in ~2000, I just couldn't get into it.

Which game is better is opinion, but I personally found FFVII much more engaging.

I don't see how you can say one is better than the other as they're from completely different eras with completely different standards.

"I don't think I can trust someone with a different opinion. I'll just assume he doesn't know what he's talking about to reinforce my original opinion instead of having an open mind." lol
You are ignoring the fact that I said MAY not be trust worthy and that I also requested more games he thinks are better than CT so to see where he is coming from.

I will admit I have some prejudice against people who love FF7 though, but not to the point where I won't hear them out.

anyway, I hope DK is in the demo 2, as I feel he would probably be ready and I would like to test him.

:phone:
 

Stunts

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There's a big difference between Project M (a mod) and that (recreating a copyrighted game). Nintendo can't shut us down because we're not doing anything illegal. We're not even officially condoning hacking your Wii, so there isn't even a grey area.
Please don't start this...:glare:
 

NeoZ

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He's saying please don't start a debate whether Project M / hacking your wii is legal or not.
I don't see how this could turn into a debate, you don't even need to mod the Wii(something which isn't even illegal).
 

Stunts

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Discussion. My keyboard is being a ***** and a half
I should've just acted cool and said that it was intentional
 
G

genkaku

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How does wolf's shield pressure compare to the other spacies?
I can't really tell just from the streams if his hitboxes are optimal for the subtleties that fox and falco manage or not.
 

JediKnightTemplar

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So is the demo actually going to be out by next Sunday, or has the deadline been officially pushed up to early April? I find the former to be fairly unlikely given how characters who are fairly close to being finalized (DK, Ness, Bowser) haven't been announced, and I can't see a huge slew of announcements coming in over the course of a week, unless the PMBR is trying to maximize hype.
 
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