Project M Social Thread

[Lolo_knight]

Took me 1 month to press A+B at the same time to start playing twilight princess, I trained my muscle memory everyday to get the timming right

 

[Kaffei]

Why does Marth's tipper Fsmash do like 2x the KB compared to regular Melee

 

[Wavebuster]

Snide response = because you're not actually landing the tipper Fsmash in Melee.

 

[Shadic]

Why does Marth's tipper Fsmash do like 2x the KB compared to regular Melee

Probably because it has the exact same stats.

 

[Mattnumbers]

A wizard did it

 

[Kink-Link5]

Must've been that goomba I can't get past.

 

[humble]

Must've been that goomba I can't get past.

"I just can't get over it... Why'd he do it man, why'd he walk off that cliff! He had so much to live for! Damnit, I just can't get that image out of my head, his belligerent glare as he fell to his doom... Staring, accusing."

 

[BRLNK88]

I noticed on the PM website that TL's spin attack in the air has been changed.
I played one of the more recent closed alphas, and saw that it had been changed almost identically to Link's from Smash 64, from the multiple hit one from Melee and Brawl.
While this seemed like a cool concept, its an absolutely, god awful, pathetic recovery move, just as it was in Smash 64. I can't even properly nair gimp the way you could in Melee cuz of how short the up-B is, nor use the new bair gimp with his Brawl bair. Please, if you're gonna change the move, have it retain the distance from the old multi-hit one.
Toon already suffers from an overall lack of melee attack range, especially against characters like Marth, a nerf like this could almost eliminate his off-stage game.

I brought this up with JCaesar, he said yall are debating it in the backroom.

 

[9Kplus1]

Let TL get ISG from bombs with his Dtilt. Bomb hovering would make for an awesome recovery option.

 

[`dazrin]

I noticed on the PM website that TL's spin attack in the air has been changed.
I played one of the more recent closed alphas, and saw that it had been changed almost identically to Link's from Smash 64, from the multiple hit one from Melee and Brawl.
While this seemed like a cool concept, its an absolutely, god awful, pathetic recovery move, just as it was in Smash 64. I can't even properly nair gimp the way you could in Melee cuz of how short the up-B is, nor use the new bair gimp with his Brawl bair. Please, if you're gonna change the move, have it retain the distance from the old multi-hit one.
Toon already suffers from an overall lack of melee attack range, especially against characters like Marth, a nerf like this could almost eliminate his off-stage game.

I brought this up with JCaesar, he said yall are debating it in the backroom.

I actually personally agree that it's such a horrible recovery that it doesn't let "YL" edgeguard to his fullest potential in project:M. In Melee, clever egdeguarding was the way to kill with young link, as his power in terms of knockback is fairly low. On the same token, while Toon Link:M definitely does have a much better knockback kill-potential than younglink ever did, (especially with the new up-b contributing to this) it could be argued that Toon Link:M's recovery should suffer the same way Link and 64 Link have for balance.

However, Young Link did operate that way at all. Young Link was supposed to be a breath of fresh air to Link. While Link had a god-awful vertical recovery in both iterations of smash games, Young Link was supposed to flip that on it's head and give Link a playstyle that involved less power in exchange for more speed, a higher recovery, and of course, better projectiles. This allowed young link to play a very nice edgeguarding game using his projectiles to hit people off stage and gimp them by following up with a nair or dair, while still being able to up-b back onto the ledge.

Now don't misunderstand me, Shadic. Toon Link:M is an incredibly designed character and I don't think I can express enough to you how grateful I am that you transformed my favorite character in the smash series since 2001 into what it is today. However, I do think you went a little bit overboard when you socked toonlink's recovery *too much* and as a result gave him far too similar strengths and weaknesses to Link- which he should be unique in some other way than aesthetics and better projectiles. While Sakurai turned the series we love into vBrawl, he also had a reason why he made TL's recovery incredibly ridiculous vertical compared to regular Link; because toon/young link was intended for people who liked link, but wanted more speed/mobility.

What I propose is that you bump TL's vertical up-b range to the same height as maybe falco or perhaps marth or barely less. TL can still have a ****ty recovery and good ground game like you designed, but at least he'd be able to edgeguard half-decently offstage without lolgimping himself.

Despite everything I have said, I will enjoy toonlink:M no matter what happens. I've personally played with it already and I found it to be fine- perhaps even amazing! (With the exception of bomb fallspeed and the stupid ridiculous vertical on the bomb-upthrow which have been left as vbrawl.) I found I can still recover fine so long as I learn to bomb-jump (but it would be much easier if bombs had melee fallspeed.. not that it's currently impossible). If he keeps his 64 recovery- so be it. I can live with that and adapt fine. I'm not going to cry and ***** about it (like about the marthisbadlol debate) for over 20 pages. (I like young/toonlink way too much to ***** about what an awesome character he's become.) But please know that YL players relied on edgeguarding and bomb placement for kills in melee and I'd like that to be the same for Toonlink:M as well. You've improved all the things that made YL bad, but did you capitalize on what YL was good at?

Thanks for reading, and thanks for all the effort you have poured into the character I love. :D

 

[9Kplus1]

Eh, I personally second higher vertical distance on Tink's Up-B. It would make D/Uthrow --> Up-B more bread and butter than SDYache Chomp in 07'

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Boobs. Boobs everywhere.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[9Kplus1]

"Milk bags"
"Fun bags"
"Jigglypuffs"
"Skinlicks"
"Dirty Pillows"
"The higher ups"

Take your pick

 

[kaizo13]

.....I bet you when demo 2 comes out I will be able to nair/bair gimp and recover just fine.

just taking a wild guess

 

[MonkUnit]

Don't forget you can bomb jump BRLNK

 

[standardtoaster]

Yeah, you need to be able to bomb jump to make his recovery have any use, really. It was made this way because he has an amazing on stage game. It adds risk to his offstage game.

 

[leelue]

I personally do not think enough characters are easily gimpable.

I mean like "O SNAP JOO MISSED ME SON? BLOOP SWAG BLOOP SWAG BLOOP SWAG SWAG SWAG SWAG SWAG"
+8 support for bad TL recovery

EDIT: Skinlicks? WTF?

 

[Wavebuster]

I personally don't have any issue with more characters having stronger recoveries if it's one reason that actually makes them good?

If their recovery annoys you, start wielding any of the power characters that they strive so hard to make good. More than one way to skin a snake and all that.

 

[Strong Badam]

I personally do not think enough characters are easily gimpable.

It might be the fact that you've been practicing how to gimp Melee characters for 10 years and PM ones are 0 years old. Just saiyan

 

[Archangel]

It might be the fact that you've been practicing how to gimp Melee characters for 10 years and PM ones are 0 years old. Just saiyan

 

[Kink-Link5]

So how bad is ZZS ***** by ledge drop DJ bairs?

 

[9Kplus1]

Zamus hates penguin feet :V

 

[JCaesar]

Depends on the character. I know that ROB's and Mario's bairs in particular **** her recovery due to their lingering, low-angle hitboxes.

 

[I R MarF]

Guys, its okay to have a bad recovery. The rest of TL's game is good, just put a lot of emphasis on it and you are set.

 

[9Kplus1]

I still think that Strong Bad should have Toon Link's recovery

 

[Archangel]

Guys, its okay to have a bad recovery. The rest of TL's game is good, just put a lot of emphasis on it and you are set.

^This

Alot of the top placing characters currently in melee have bad or easily trollable recovery.

Falco's is bad.

Fox's is trollable

Falcon's is trollable

Marth's is trollable

IC's....just kill nana.

Doc's is LOL

Ganon's is

All these characters have placed from top 10-1st place while not having Jigglypuff or peach level of recovery.

 

[Cubelarooso]

I don't think their problem is with bad recoveries, if they're on appropriate characters. But rather, it's that having a bad recovery is not part of YL's established playstyle.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Doc has by far the safest sweetspot in the game.

 

[leelue]

It might be the fact that you've been practicing how to gimp Melee characters for 10 years and PM ones are 0 years old. Just saiyan

Nah, I'm pretty sure that it's that characters.

Mario, ganon, Cfalc, and even peach all have some minor improvement to their recovery (especially ganon). Every one of the lower tier characters except for maybe pikachu do as well, although some of these were necessary.

It's harder to tell with brawl characters but it looks like a majority of them do just fine offstage and at least a couple are in the same class as peach in terms of recovery.

 

[Strong Badam]

I was specifically talking about Project M newcomers, not the Melee low tiers that we've buffed.

 

[leelue]

And my original comment was about the entire cast.

 

[genkaku]

How about we give every character a float except for spacies. That may even up the tier list a bit.

 

[leelue]

Pikachu + float = Zeus

 

[GP&B]

What the hell are you talking about?

I was responding to an earlier post on ways to get infracted or warned, my example being gratuitous amounts of porn.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Pikachu + float = Zeus

Oh please. PikaZeus has nothing on Space Knight.

 

[Strong Badam]

And my original comment was about the entire cast.

the entire cast including newcomers...

 

[BRLNK88]

Don't forget you can bomb jump BRLNK

Bomb jumping is supposed to be a last resort, life saving technique, mainly because its so do-or-die.
It shouldn't be a main recovery option for TL, especially when you're just going for gimps.
I love the offensive buffs TL has gotten, but lets face it, he's still gonna have a tough time killing, he needs a decent offstage game as well.
Fox, Falco, Marth and Sheik are still gonna make it really rough on him.
Why not just change the move but retain the recovery distance?
Smash 64 Link has a pretty sick offensive game when employed correctly, but his recovery is the number one reason he's bottom tier.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Toon Link also has Boomerang Canceled Zair to help his recovery if the mechanics of both work like Young Link's.

 

[`dazrin]

BRLNK, have you actually played the new toonlink?

I used to be heavily opposed to the ****ty recovery, but afterplaying with it, it really isn't that bad. It's workable. Bomb-jumping is an essential now, which is actually great for the character if you think about it, adding a layer of depth and difficulty to the character that wasn't previous there before.

Like I said before, it IS ****ty recovery, and I hope he'd get it buffed to maybe a bit less than marth, but it's completely fine if that doesn't happen. He can still have an "offstage game" using his projectiles. He's amazing as it is. I'm with Cubal when he says that it's not the fact that he has a bad recovery that bugs me, it's just the fact that it wasn't part of YL's playstyle, since YL would go diving offstage for the aggressive kills all the time. It's fine though, the offensive buffs are more than enough to make up for it ^_^

->Even with all that being said, I still predict TL will be near the bottom of the tierlist in project:M mostly because he still gets ***** by top tiers. But I couldn't care less, I'll be using him no matter what :D Come at me brahz

 

[ph00tbag]

I love the offensive buffs TL has gotten, but lets face it, he's still gonna have a tough time killing, he needs a decent offstage game as well.

Just combo into midair Spin Attack.