Project M Social Thread

[Mr.Jackpot]

I think Neko just needs to pay for the site again or something. Neko should be handling this Monday or Tueday, I think.

 

[ValTroX]

Is wall cling gonna be removed for everyone?(I hope it is xD)

 

[Revven]

Is wall cling gonna be removed for everyone?(I hope it is xD)

I am fairly certain we have made a stance on this already.

But, because people I suppose tend to easily forget things here we go:

Characters that have wall cling are: Diddy, Squirtle, and Sheik currently. Only three characters out of the 38 have it. Diddy benefits from it the most, with being able to wall cling right out of Side B to use as recovery. Removing it from him would only hurt his recovery options...

Squirtle and Sheik use wall cling for edgeguarding which adds an interesting dynamic of edgeguarding to both characters (if players use them appropriately).

So in short, no, we're not removing them for the remaining characters unless it really turns out to be detrimental in the end.

 

[I R MarF]

I am fairly certain we have made a stance on this already.

But, because people I suppose tend to easily forget things here we go:

Characters that have wall cling are: Diddy, Squirtle, and Sheik currently. Only three characters out of the 38 have it. Diddy benefits from it the most, with being able to wall cling right out of Side B to use as recovery. Removing it from him would only hurt his recovery options...

Squirtle and Sheik use wall cling for edgeguarding which adds an interesting dynamic of edgeguarding to both characters (if players use them appropriately).

So in short, no, we're not removing them for the remaining characters unless it really turns out to be detrimental in the end.

Shiek's getting an edgeguarding buff eh?

How is Marth's new ability to walljump coming along?

 

[MonkUnit]

Getting? She already had wallclinging in the demo.

 

[Crispy4001]

I am fairly certain we have made a stance on this already.

But, because people I suppose tend to easily forget things here we go:

Characters that have wall cling are: Diddy, Squirtle, and Sheik currently. Only three characters out of the 38 have it. Diddy benefits from it the most, with being able to wall cling right out of Side B to use as recovery. Removing it from him would only hurt his recovery options...

Squirtle and Sheik use wall cling for edgeguarding which adds an interesting dynamic of edgeguarding to both characters (if players use them appropriately).

So in short, no, we're not removing them for the remaining characters unless it really turns out to be detrimental in the end.

I wish ZSS could cling. Even more, I wish she could cling with her forward-B. But I guess that's the same issue with Link's Zair now.

 

[jalued]

Shiek's getting an edgeguarding buff eh?

How is Marth's new ability to walljump coming along?

The only real complaint i have for wallcling is how brawl inputs it (by pressing into the wall when close) which can cause you to accidently wall cling to the edge. I found that whenever i tried sheik in the demo, it was more of a problem than a help.

If it was changed to a different input however, i would support it, but as it is i feel it will be a general annoyance for melee sheik mains.

 

[NeoZ]

So instead of this, they are massively delaying it, while trying to balance the entire cast. Yeah sure there are some graphical glitches, and i understand only shanus and magnus can fix them, but still... 9 months since the demo.

And Magnus is back.

 

[Revven]

Shiek's getting an edgeguarding buff eh?

Erm, it was in the demo, nobody really utilizes it so until it's proven to help her out a crap ton there's no reason to take it away. The assumption is it's another option that's there for her to use and is useful to her. It's just like how she can still crawl but doesn't exactly buff her.

Your sarcasm was completely unnecessary by the way. You've known for at least a whole year now that Sheik has had both the ability to crawl and wall cling. They are gameplay additions from Brawl that were kept just like glide tossing and DACUS are still there.

 

[PEEF!]

At first Squirts wallcling was extremely frustrating, but after getting used to it for a day or so it became a non-issue.

After a couple weeks focusing heavily on him, I now am trying to use it to edgeguard. It is tough but in the end I think it is a fun and interesting addition.

 

[BlueXenon]

I never saw squirtles B. Is it the same as it is in brawl?

 

[GHNeko]

Strictly maining Zamus now.

So godlike.





EDIT: I'll be taking care of the site when I get back lol.

 

[kaizo13]

Strictly maining Zamus now.

So godlike.

combos for days

definitely keeping her in my top 5

 

[MonkUnit]

what about that "lucario technology"

 

[ValTroX]

Zamus looks way more fun than Lucaryu Monk

 

[PEEF!]

Squirtles neutral B is changed right now. It serves a similar function but seems more reliable and less stupid.

Zero suit samus is someone who I am interested in playing more, but i don't quite understand her yet. What can she do out of shield? How can she space other than sideb?

 

[MonkUnit]

Zamus looks way more fun than Lucaryu Monk

guess we have to redesign lucario

 

[Revven]

They are streaming some more today: http://www.twitch.tv/ryokoyaksa

 

[MonkUnit]

now i have something to do today!

 

[MaxThunder]

sigh... and since i'm back at school i can't watch twitch.tv streams again=(... well... not like i'd have much time to watch them, as most of them happen during the night for me and stuff... bah...

 

[I R MarF]

Erm, it was in the demo, nobody really utilizes it so until it's proven to help her out a crap ton there's no reason to take it away. The assumption is it's another option that's there for her to use and is useful to her. It's just like how she can still crawl but doesn't exactly buff her.

Your sarcasm was completely unnecessary by the way. You've known for at least a whole year now that Sheik has had both the ability to crawl and wall cling. They are gameplay additions from Brawl that were kept just like glide tossing and DACUS are still there.

On the contrary DACUS and glide tossing are universal techniques that everyone can utilize like WDing. Not everone can crawl, wall jump, and wall cling. lumping gameplay additions in the same category as Brawl ATs is an odd justification.

Also, how does it not help her out? There is at least a little bit of timing that goes into wall jump aerials so now she can just cling to the wall until its the right time? And if it doesn't really help her out, then it'd be all the more reason to remove it because its a pointless, confusing addition Melee players (the target audience) wouldn't be expecting.

But moreover, my real point is that Melee top tiers (particularly Shiek who is an incredible character at nearly all levels of play and has arguably the shortest learning curve) should be left 100% intact. Why should a character with one of the shortest crouches in the game be able to move while doing so? Why does a character who already has an excellent midair jump and wall jump get to cling to walls now? Why not give the cling ability to someone like DK where it both makes sense in lore and has possible benefits since he doesn't have a wall jump?

 

[PurDi]

its a pointless, confusing addition Melee players (the target audience) wouldn't be expecting.

This bothers me.. Not trying to grill you Marf, I was just waiting for it to come up again.

I don't think most people realize how many brawl players this mod is actually pulling in. The PMBR might actually start a new wave of melee players :D

 

[GHNeko]

what about that "lucario technology"

Zamus looks way more fun than Lucaryu Monk

Pretty much this. lol.

I also like her mobility options

 

[jalued]

But moreover, my real point is that Melee top tiers (particularly Shiek who is an incredible character at nearly all levels of play and has arguably the shortest learning curve) should be left 100% intact. Why should a character with one of the shortest crouches in the game be able to move while doing so? Why does a character who already has an excellent midair jump and wall jump get to cling to walls now? Why not give the cling ability to someone like DK where it both makes sense in lore and has possible benefits since he doesn't have a wall jump?

I actually agree with this, and DK would look cool with a wall cling even if it wouldn't help him much due to his poor vertical recovery

appreciate PEEF's comment about squirtle's wall cling, im glad you found an application for it

 

[Octorox]

On the contrary DACUS and glide tossing are universal techniques that everyone can utilize like WDing. Not everone can crawl, wall jump, and wall cling. lumping gameplay additions in the same category as Brawl ATs is an odd justification.

Also, how does it not help her out? There is at least a little bit of timing that goes into wall jump aerials so now she can just cling to the wall until its the right time? And if it doesn't really help her out, then it'd be all the more reason to remove it because its a pointless, confusing addition Melee players (the target audience) wouldn't be expecting.

But moreover, my real point is that Melee top tiers (particularly Shiek who is an incredible character at nearly all levels of play and has arguably the shortest learning curve) should be left 100% intact. Why should a character with one of the shortest crouches in the game be able to move while doing so? Why does a character who already has an excellent midair jump and wall jump get to cling to walls now? Why not give the cling ability to someone like DK where it both makes sense in lore and has possible benefits since he doesn't have a wall jump?

Shiek's DThrow was nerfed so they gave her new tricks to make up for it. I really thing they have a good grip on balance and if these weren't good additions they would have removed them.

I like the idea of DK having a wallcling though.

 

[jalued]

Shiek's DThrow was nerfed so they gave her new tricks to make up for it. I really thing they have a good grip on balance and if these weren't good additions they would have removed them.

I like the idea of DK having a wallcling though.

NTSC player's cant really appreciate how little a dthrow change nerfs sheik, in PAL she is still incredibly good.

There is also no reason for her to lose the wallcling, most stages don't accommodate for it and alot of the time there will be better options available to her

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

But moreover, my real point is that Melee top tiers (particularly Shiek who is an incredible character at nearly all levels of play and has arguably the shortest learning curve) should be left 100% intact. Why should a character with one of the shortest crouches in the game be able to move while doing so? Why does a character who already has an excellent midair jump and wall jump get to cling to walls now? Why not give the cling ability to someone like DK where it both makes sense in lore and has possible benefits since he doesn't have a wall jump?

I am a big proponent of in-character embellishments and have confidence in our balancing team to come up with ways to keep every character up to par. Sheik's crawl is something that I think really matches her character and just looks cool. I do not think the crawl is nearly as impairing to her balance as something like her brawl grapple would have been in melee.

 

[humble]

+1 For DK wallcling. -1 for removing Sheik's wallcling.

 

[Dark Sonic]

What can she do out of shield? How can she space other than sideb?

1. Not much. She has terrible OoS options (she can uair OoS against tall characters I guess).

2. She can space with d-tilt, f-tilt (about as usable as Samus f-tilt lol), and d-smash (very safe once it's out. The startup lag is the issue). From mid range you can use side B or neutral B (f-smash is too slow both on startup and endlag to really just be thrown out). To get them out of your face you have jab and uptilt.

Basically, avoid shielding unless there aren't any other options.

 

[jalued]

1. Not much. She has terrible OoS options (she can uair OoS against tall characters I guess).

2. She can space with d-tilt, f-tilt (about as usable as Samus f-tilt lol), and d-smash (very safe once it's out. The startup lag is the issue). From mid range you can use side B or neutral B (f-smash is too slow both on startup and endlag to really just be thrown out). To get them out of your face you have jab and uptilt.

Basically, avoid shielding unless there aren't any other options.

could she not be given a slightly larger hitbox on upB to help her with OOS and to combo with it, or even heavy armour frames on the initial animation of downB?

Or I could come down to the age old request of giving her a small SH

 

[The_Guide]

I'm confused. What would DK even be able to do with a wall cling?

 

[jalued]

I'm confused. What would DK even be able to do with a wall cling?

nothing, that's the irony of it

 

[Dark Sonic]

Down B has invincibility. The issue is that to use it OoS you have to jump first <_<. It is an option though

 

[jalued]

Down B has invincibility. The issue is that to use it OoS you have to jump first <_<. It is an option though

is it possible to code it that she can do downB out of shield or is that too complicated? Would be nice if her upB has a larger hitbox so she could do reverse falco combos

 

[Dark Sonic]

It's probably trivial to code. But it would also be weird is she was the only character who could down B OoS.

She'll just struggle a bit with pressure is all. She's pretty capable of keeping people off of her as is without even shielding.

 

[jalued]

It's probably trivial to code. But it would also be weird is she was the only character who could down B OoS.

She'll just struggle a bit with pressure is all. She's pretty capable of keeping people off of her as is without even shielding.

variety is the spice of life as long as she doesn't become the yoshi of melee, she should be fine

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

NTSC player's cant really appreciate how little a dthrow change nerfs sheik, in PAL she is still incredibly good.

There is also no reason for her to lose the wallcling, most stages don't accommodate for it and alot of the time there will be better options available to her

This

You can like

techchase

it takes moar skill than

chaingrabbing

and you get bit more respect for playing sheik, you know, the little you have

 

[Revven]

I'm confused. What would DK even be able to do with a wall cling?

Nothing, he has no aerials that would really be useful for it. Fair is too slow (even with the slight frame adjustments), Uair is a move that sends upwards, Nair doesn't reach out very far to begin with (though it might be okay for use if he had a wall cling... still kinda impractical though), and Dair ... well Dair isn't very quick either. Not to mention the amount of crazy risk you would take doing a wall cling with him versus edgeguarding with Bair while hanging on the ledge...

I don't know why I R Marf brought it up as an example of someone to give wall cling to, to be honest other than "it's canon!" which isn't a good argument to get something added unless it REALLY adds something to a character's playstyle.

 

[SuperHappyCow]

And Magnus is back.

Wasn't he the one working on the clone engine? Am I wrong?

 

[Strong Badam]

that was Dantarion.

Falco400: wallcling -> up-b might have applications for edgeguarding.