Project M Social Thread Gold

[GHNeko]

You're going to have to explain yourself here. I don't follow your logic.

OH **** ****** WHAT ARE YOU DOING

 

[Player -0]

I'm attempting to check myself but I don't understand what people are trying to say at all.

Karp's Eva analysis resonated with tumblr feminazi stereotype really hard imo though. I'm happy with my bad irony that talks about feminism in that way even if no one else is.

 

[Kurri ★]

You're going to have to explain yourself here. I don't follow your logic.

Biggest reason is that they don't mean the same thing. Female refers to the sexual reproductive system whereas Woman refers to a person.

 

[SunJester]

Biggest reason is that they don't mean the same thing. Female refers to the sexual reproductive system whereas Woman refers to a person.

Oh, I see.

In my mind they were the same but I can understand that one refers to sex and one to the gender. Its nothing that I was aware of, but I'll keep a note of that for future discussions.


If I can give a word of advice, I wouldn't insult/condescend to people who aren't in the know. It makes a lot of people shut down immediately and not listen to anything else you have to say. I'd start with the explanation before the callout next time.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

Freedom of expression =/= freedom from consequences if you express some foolishness.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

You're going to have to explain yourself here. I don't follow your logic.

sigh alright I might as well explain this

I did this too once upon a time and I still do it accidentally and it took me awhile to figure out why it was so weird

1. Sex and Gender are two different things
female is a sex
woman is a gender

you can be woman with female genitalia as well as male genitalia

referring to women as females not only reduces them to their reproductive organs (which is exactly what the long history of sexism under the patriarchy does and doesn't need our help perpetuating itself) but also disenfranchises trans people (who were born with male genitals) from the category of "women"

edit: oops I forgot to finish numbering my points and kurri ninja'd me with a better explanation

 

[Player -0]

I started a response but now that it's clear that this is sex vs. gender I'm done lol.

I'M OUT

 

[Kurri ★]

Oh, I see.

In my mind they were the same but I can understand that one refers to sex and one to the gender. Its nothing that I was aware of, but I'll keep a note of that for future discussions.


If I can give a word of advice, I wouldn't insult/condescend to people who aren't in the know. It makes a lot of people shut down immediately and not listen to anything else you have to say. I'd start with the explanation before the callout next time.

Sorry, didn't realize calling it cringey would be insulting.

Freedom of expression =/= freedom from consequences if you express some foolishness.

This. Yes, you're free to express yourself, but don't claim "it's just a [insert whatever media here]" there are still consequences. I'll accept that a game like DOA Extreme Whatever it is shouldn't be censored because it's focus is sex itself, but SFV being altered is not a problem in the slightest.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

sigh I'm just trying to make my little corner of the hilariously toxic gaming world a little more accepting and understanding

 

[monstersbane]

you can be woman with female genitalia as well as male genitalia

Miss read that as having both at the same time. I was so confused for a minute.

Also, in your eva analysis one of the things you noted as being progressive was the men in nerve being in it for selfish reasons, could you explain?

 

[Vashimus]

Patriarchies exist.... in countries like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. However it doesn't seem like most feminists care about helping women in those countries as long as white male scientists are still wearing shirts with hot ladies on them.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Miss read that as having both at the same time. I was so confused for a minute.

Also, in your eva analysis one of the things you noted as being progressive was the men in nerve being in it for selfish reasons, could you explain?

gendo literally wants to end the entire world just so he can be with his wife again
kaji doublecrosses everyone for personal gain
and that's like the extent of the male characters

Patriarchies exist.... in countries like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. However it doesn't seem like most feminists care about helping women in those countries as long as white male scientists are still wearing shirts with hot ladies on them.

... sigh. you're missing the point a little
yes I do agree that there does exist a really toxic patriarchy in conservative islamic states and my family and I have donated money to charities to help educate women in the middle east

however, trying to swoop in and make such areas conform to western standards is a. kinda racist and intolerant for what those of muslim faith believe and b. runs into a whole different slew of issues that pertain to how different eastern feminists view clothing such as the niqab and hijab. some view it as a form of control by the patriarchy while others view it as empowering as it takes the focus off of physical characteristics. (this gets into another debate about the merits of choice feminism which is a topic I don't know enough about)
the world is a mess
if you want to read a good book about feminism in the muslim world read Dreams of Trespass by Fatima Mernissi

 

[Kurri ★]

Miss read that as having both at the same time. I was so confused for a minute.

Also, in your eva analysis one of the things you noted as being progressive was the men in nerve being in it for selfish reasons, could you explain?

Look up intersex.

Also, Seele (filled entirely by men) and Gendo Ikari both lead for their own selfish goals such as Human Instrumentality, or, in Gendo's case, bringing back Yui (iirc)

Edit: Karp beat me

Patriarchies exist.... in countries like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. However it doesn't seem like most feminists care about helping women in those countries as long as white male scientists are still wearing shirts with hot ladies on them.

It's also in the West, if you didn't know.

 

[monstersbane]

gendo literally wants to end the entire world just so he can be with his wife again
kaji doublecrosses everyone for personal gain
and that's like the extent of the male characters

Ok, but I meant how that is progressive from a feminist's point of view. I just don't get it.

 

[SunJester]

Sorry, didn't realize calling it cringey would be insulting..

Its cool, I'm not mad or anything. I just found your word choices to be confronting.

Its cool <3



Also I knew sex/=/gender. I just (though I should've) didn't know that female = sex, woman = gender.

Durp.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

Ok, but I meant how that is progressive from a feminist's point of view. I just don't get it.

>asking fan(atics) to explain themselves

 

[drakargx]

It's also in the West, if you didn't know.

Yeah but his argument is(I think at least) that our patriarchy is considerably more tame than in those countries and they are in more dire needs

But I always wonder how much culture we force onto others when we go overseas in an effort to fix their gender imbalance

I also wonder if what we think as sexist is influenced by our culture

 

[Kurri ★]

Ok, but I meant how that is progressive from a feminist's point of view. I just don't get it.

Because women are 9 times out of 10 not put into roles of leadership and when they are either don't do a good job at it, or are in the wrong. Showing that they're not only capable but actually pushing for the betterment of society is actually not all that common.

Its cool, I'm not mad or anything. I just found your word choices to be confronting.

Its cool <3



Also I knew sex/=/gender. I just (though I should've) didn't know that female = sex, woman = gender.

Durp.

It's cool, our educational system doesn't do a good job differentiating between the two.

 

[Grey Belnades]

I'm going to need another drink, also RIP my 3.53 GPA.

 

[Kurri ★]

Yeah but his argument is(I think at least) that our patriarchy is considerably more tame than in those countries and they are in more dire needs

But I always wonder how much culture we force onto others when we go overseas in an effort to fix their gender imbalance

I also wonder if what we think as sexist is influenced by our culture

It being tamer does not mean it doesn't need fixing

 

[SunJester]

I unno people, I think the Smash community is pretty accepting (especially as far as communities go).

We could always do better for sure, but, against the average its pretty ****in' good.

One thing I've always liked about this community is it doesn't matter if your race, gender, sexuality, it matters way more if you're good or not. That's a pretty level playing field.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

but just like in smash, you can always be better

 

[Kurri ★]

I unno people, I think the Smash community is pretty accepting (especially as far as communities go).

We could always do better for sure, but, against the average its pretty ****in' good.

One thing I've always liked about this community is it doesn't matter if your race, gender, sexuality, it matters way more if you're good or not. That's a pretty level playing field.

Milktea says otherwise.

But yeah, for the most part, as a community, we should strive to keep getting better

 

[MechWarriorNY]

But I always wonder how much culture we force onto others when we go overseas in an effort to 'protect' our "interests"

First off, fixed. Second off, too much. Always.

 

[drakargx]

It being tamer does not mean it doesn't need fixing

Well right but the argument is that at this point the fight is mostly won and all that needs to be done is waiting for legislation/our culture to proceed to develop. The argument is that current pushes towards gender equality over here are mostly trivial compared to the problems women have had in the past. I don't really have an opinion tho cuz for the most part I'm an opinion-less guy (mostly out of habit, I don't see a point in taking a side when I think both sides are right on some aspects)

Forget the article/essay/book/whatever name but Christina Sommers had a piece where she talked about this a bit more in depth, she leans heavily on that side

 

[SunJester]

but just like in smash, you can always be better

Spoiler

 

[shairn]

oh boy time to talk about eva
1. all of the leading scientists in eva are women, and showing women in power is something not traditionally done and relatively groundbreaking.
2. the only males in positions of power in eva want to use power for their own selfish purposes, consequences be damned.
3. rei, while originally shown as a moebait ****doll is constantly redisplayed during the second half of the show as a real human being with real feelings who hates being used as a toy
4. I could talk about misato for a long time, but in the actual anime kaji is much more presented as an accessory of misato than misato is as an accesorry of kaji. (misato's development as a human who begins to be able to emotionally relate to humans is also a big part of eva)
5. all of the normal sexist tropes in eva are displayed in the beginning only for anno to overturn them later and figuratively yell at the audience for "being so ****ed up"
6. mari does have a bit of fanservice but in reality she thinks that she is using the adults organizations as a way to get what she wants. she's a pretty strong independent female who doesn't really care
7. shinji is gay/bi lmao

Shinji is definitely not gay
At least original eva shinji is more into girls than guys
Rebuild Shinji is ultra gay

So there's like two researchers that are women, great, but they're still under the orders, without any question on their part, of the men in power and they serve them voluntarily so whatever motive drives these men drives the whole team so that's sort of a moot point.

I can't talk much about Eva becaus it's been so long since I've seen it and the two series have gotten muddied in my head lmao

 

[Ningildo]

http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/the-2016-video-game-championship-format-has-been-announced/

VGCs will now be infested with mega rayquaza and primal groudon for the next year, but they still ban melloetta and phione

it's like they decided smogon didn't have enough of a monopoly, so they're trying to make everyone ditch VGCs for OU doubles

At least they banned Darkrai. Dark Void OP in dubs.

But they still left in the one pokemon that makes Arceus look like a pansy, so yeah, poor bans ftw.

I hope someone trolls with a Scarf Dark Void Smeargle and wins with it despite Extremespeed Ray doing a number on it.

#FukMegaRay

 

[monstersbane]

Because women are 9 times out of 10 not put into roles of leadership and when they are either don't do a good job at it, or are in the wrong. Showing that they're not only capable but actually pushing for the betterment of society is actually not all that common..

I'm not sure you understood my question. I was asking why the men being selfish was progressive, not why having women in power was.

 

[Kurri ★]

Shinji is definitely not gay
At least original eva shinji is more into girls than guys
Rebuild Shinji is ultra gay

So there's like two researchers that are women, great, but they're still under the orders, without any question on their part, of the men in power and they serve them voluntarily so whatever motive drives these men drives the whole team so that's sort of a moot point.

I can't talk much about Eva becaus it's been so long since I've seen it and the two series have gotten muddied in my head lmao

They are under Gendo's orders, but at the same time, they have a lot of power themselves. It's pretty clear Misato does a hell of a lot more work around Nerv then Gendo ever does and leads a hell of a lot better too. This is shown within 3.0 where Misato doesn't have anyone above her and is still trying to protect the world while Gendo is still ****ing it up.

Well right but the argument is that at this point the fight is mostly won and all that needs to be done is waiting for legislation/our culture to proceed to develop. The argument is that current pushes towards gender equality over here are mostly trivial compared to the problems women have had in the past. I don't really have an opinion tho cuz for the most part I'm an opinion-less guy (mostly out of habit, I don't see a point in taking a side when I think both sides are right on some aspects)

Forget the article/essay/book/whatever name but Christina Sommers had a piece where she talked about this a bit more in depth, she leans heavily on that side

It's not mostly won.

 

[Bleck]

sometimes I want to talk about whatever is wrong with my life but the list is so long and daunting that I just sit and stare at a wall for an hour instead

Shinji is definitely not gay
At least original eva shinji is more into girls than guys

no he's not, but he definitely thinks he's supposed to be

 

[Player -0]

Can I reference my tumblr feminazi for the 3rd time or am I out still?

 

[Helsong]

I gave up on convincing people on the internet about feminism or gender issues or any of that a while ago, after the 328th time of being dismissed as an SJW. The fact that I kind of am nonwithstanding, I don't see how that invalidates what anyone has to say.
Also I've actually been told I didn't earn my degree and only got it because I'm a woman minority and universities are pandering to "my type". Twice, in fact. ****'s great lemme tell ya. I think this is sorta/kinda why I don't date nerds. I've run into this sort of thing more with those that consider themselves academics than not, though that's also likely due to me spending time with more academic type than not.

So I don't really buy the argument that there's isn't a problem, because there kind of is. The "fight" or whatever isn't really won until the culture has finished developing. Unfortunately, the rhetoric on both sides has gotten so vitriolic that having a discussion becomes impossible and expressing any sort of opinion immediately gets you categorized and dismissed overall. There's plenty of fearmongering, reactionary hate, general misunderstanding, etc. And this sort of thing ends up ****ing both men and women.

Dunno, just general rambling.

 

[Vashimus]

It's also in the West, if you didn't know.

If this was true, there wouldn't be hundreds of billionaires that are women. If we were in a patriarchal society that evoked male dominance over women, we wouldn't have enacted laws to ensure women get paid the same as men for the same work. Women would not be the majority of graduates from universities, and there wouldn't women's only scholarships or women studies programs available in those institutions. We wouldn't have allowed women the right to vote and be able to run for electoral office. The patriarchy wouldn't be spending twice as much money funding breast cancer research than prostate cancer research, despite them affecting nearly same number of women and men respectively. Roe v. Wade would've never happened and neither would women's contraceptives.

But please tell me more about how the West has it out for women.

 

[Blazing Ambition]

But they do tho
http://www.wiktenauer.com/wiki/Gladiatoria_(MS_U860.F46_1450)

"let us do battle heathen"

"hol up thats my sword bro"

"finders keepers nerd"

"mooom travis wont give me my swoord"

 

[MechWarriorNY]

But please tell me more about how the West has it out for women.

I dunno, those skimpy dresses don't design themselves, and girls don't (usually) shamelessly treat themselves as objects/tools to be used and then discarded once they are no longer of use, either.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

I'm not sure you understood my question. I was asking why the men being selfish was progressive, not why having women in power was.

because portraying the only men who hold power as unfit to hold those positions while women in the same show are portrayed as being strong leaders is a overturning of the prevailing narrative that men are more fit to hold power/office than women

if you look at the percentage of women on the forbes 500 list, the percentage of women in positions of political power, and the percentage of women in charage of fortune 500 companies you'll see that there is a large imbalance (I'm not implying that everyone in the world thinks that men should hold more power, but the pattern of society demonstrably shows that this is the overwhelming trend and that on average women are viewed more as home workers)

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Can I reference my tumblr feminazi for the 3rd time or am I out still?

no

edit oops double post

 

[Jaedrik]

So I was bing image searching people's names. Some interesting results

Warchamp7 : A swastika inside of a star of David. Because of http://www.teamavolition.com/ apparently
MechWarriorNY: First image is

perfect

 

[SunJester]

sometimes I want to talk about whatever is wrong with my life but the list is so long and daunting that I just sit and stare at a wall for an hour instead

If you want to let off some steam there's always the bi-monthly L cancelling thread.

(it works for me sometimes)