Social PK Love - Lucas Social Thread: “Inside the mailbox was absolutely nothing”

[A Polar Bear]

I really hope Nair / Dair crossup is safe now. Being cornered at the ledge was a Slight issue for me before, but with PK Fire / Zair spacing being less strict due to the improved shieldstun and being able to cross up, our zoning and neutral game may have gotten a HUGE buff, and the same can be said for other zoners / spacies. As a Tink player, this is a welcome breeze in my green knickers.

I'm excited. Are you excited? Of course you are :D

I don't know why but my first reaction was you played as Tinkerbell

 

[JesterJaded]

I don't know why but my first reaction was you played as Tinkerbell

A man can dream. Tinkerbell for DLC.

 

[Nu~]

Hello!
I'm thinking of picking up Lucas, but have a few questions.

What is his play style and is he linear now that his brawl tech is gone?

 

[Patriot Duck]

Hello!
I'm thinking of picking up Lucas, but have a few questions.

What is his play style and is he linear now that his brawl tech is gone?

I'd describe Lucas's play style as a mix between mid range zoning and quick CQC.

In the neutral, you're going to want to poke at your opponent from a safe distance with short hop PK Fire and zair. When your opponent gets too close, take advantage of the good frame data on Lucas's grounded normals to compete with your opponent in footsies. Lucas's jab, for example, is frame 2 and has a hitbox that covers his entire body, making it good for catching rolls. His frame 3 down tilt and frame 4 up tilt can also put your opponent in a bad position.

Lucas's kit is geared towards nullifying projectiles. PK Fire and zair beat out anything that isn't transcendent. Forward smash is a serviceable reflector. PSI Magnet can be cancelled upon absorbing a projectile with a jump, spot dodge, or back roll, making it virtually impossible to punish. All this forces most characters to approach Lucas, and that lets you control the pace of the match.

Magnet can also stall your momentum, making for a good mix up when you're in a disadvantaged state.


As for combos:

Zair combos into jab, tilts, and grab.

Down throw combos into every aerial. Dthrow > nair > nair > uair works at certain percents and is a personal favorite of mine.

Short hop nair combos into up tilt and aerials. Nair > dair near the ledge is good for setting up edge guards.

Down tilt combos into jab and tilts at low percents and grab at high percents. Down tilt > up/back throw is a useful kill confirm.


I don't have any experience with Brawl Lucas, so I don't know how comparatively linear is might be.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

He has barely anything from Brawl except for his amazing PK Fire wavebounce.

He's not linear, has a lot he can do and now has safe moves with shield stun added <3

If you want someone fun as hell, Lucas is a character for you.

 

[Login_Sinker]

Hello!
I'm thinking of picking up Lucas, but have a few questions.

What is his play style and is he linear now that his brawl tech is gone?

One thing to keep in mind is that he takes some getting used to if you're not one of the hardy old Brawl veterans. Definitely not a "pick up for easy wins" kind of character. Super satisfying once you figure him out and start styling, though.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

It looks like Reserved from the Viability Rankings thread did some research on post-patch Lucas's shield stun.

If all those moves are really safe on shield now, then that's absolutely fantastic.

Would like to correct something though, D-Tilt wasn't properly tested. If you have a fast grab or OoS option you can hit him.

Otherwise, everything remains the same. LUCAS IS SO GOOD NOW. I seriously love him, I can't believe how buffed he got with this. He's pretty much my permanent secondary with Kirby.

You can expect me to be around here a lot more~

 

[A Polar Bear]

I hope the people working on Sm4sh are wise enough to realize a patch like this isn't one of those "put em in, see what its like, take em out" kind of things. To implement a change that shifts the playstyle around so radically that essentially a new metagame is born out of it, it would be really sh*tty of them to just decide "okay that's enough lol" in the next patch.

Also I feel like Sonic's gonna be even more annoying now lmao

 

[Lochy]

I hope the people working on Sm4sh are wise enough to realize a patch like this isn't one of those "put em in, see what its like, take em out" kind of things. To implement a change that shifts the playstyle around so radically that essentially a new metagame is born out of it, it would be really sh*tty of them to just decide "okay that's enough lol" in the next patch.

Also I feel like Sonic's gonna be even more annoying now lmao

This... All of this.

 

[JesterJaded]

I hope the people working on Sm4sh are wise enough to realize a patch like this isn't one of those "put em in, see what its like, take em out" kind of things. To implement a change that shifts the playstyle around so radically that essentially a new metagame is born out of it, it would be really sh*tty of them to just decide "okay that's enough lol" in the next patch.

Also I feel like Sonic's gonna be even more annoying now lmao

I think that would be a terrible transition to swallow now that like half the mid / low-tier cast no longer have garbage options. Heck, I hear Robin's practically been given the Ike treatment just because of electrical shieldstun!

Honestly, even if this turns out to become a shield string-heavy meta, it would be preferable over the grab-heavy one we've had since D-throw > Uair was hailed as the truth, the way and the light. Zoners / spacies that lack in grab game stand more of a chance, and mobile / combo-heavy characters are still considered top-tier.

 

[McDeathstrider]

To be honest though, I still feel like this meta is grab-heavy.

 

[JesterJaded]

To be honest though, I still feel like this meta is grab-heavy.

Grabs are still powerful, yeah, but you can't really shield-grab as many attacks as in 1.1.0, and shielding in general is less safe / has less options than it used to. Characters that didn't have many options against shield or simply didn't have the grab reward to compete with the rest of the cast now have options against shields without being throw combo'd into oblivion, making grab game less of a necessity.

 

[Nu~]

Thanks for the response guys.
Lucas is officially my co main now :D

 

[FUEGO!]

He feels like PM Lucas now...I could cry. I am so happy.

 

[Login_Sinker]

Also I feel like Sonic's gonna be even more annoying now lmao

As a Sonic user, I can confirm this.

Also I don't think Lucas's Nair is safe on shield yet. I've crossed it up on people's shields multiple times now since this update came out and I still get punished every time.

 

[Physics]

If you reverse aerial rush Lucas' nair and cross them up, follow it up with a jab and if they drop sheild to punish they will get hit and can't do anything. Try it out guys!

 

[Doctor_Link]

Not really about the patch or anything, but PK thunder I feel is criminally underused. I've been using D-throw>nair>PK Thunder 2 for some early off the top kills as a mixup. But the thing that's stupid about PKT2 is the first hit will NEVER combo into any other hit because of bkb. also, the pkt orb has too much knockback and so they'll fly out in 1 or 2 hits.

 

[Agent Emerald]

Not really about the patch or anything, but PK thunder I feel is criminally underused. I've been using D-throw>nair>PK Thunder 2 for some early off the top kills as a mixup. But the thing that's stupid about PKT2 is the first hit will NEVER combo into any other hit because of bkb. also, the pkt orb has too much knockback and so they'll fly out in 1 or 2 hits.

I would use PKT2 a whole lot more if that endlag was not God forsakenly bad. At least it can gimp Ikes and sometimes DK and Bowser trying to go low.

 

[Patriot Duck]

As a Sonic user, I can confirm this.

Also I don't think Lucas's Nair is safe on shield yet. I've crossed it up on people's shields multiple times now since this update came out and I still get punished every time.

Try hitting them with a cross-up nair while facing away from your opponent and let me know it that's any safer. Lucas's nair always sends opponents in the direction he's facing, so a reverse cross-up nair should push shielding opponents in the opposite direction Lucas is moving, creating a larger gap in distance between the two characters, if I understand it right. I'd test it myself but I don't have direct access to my Wii U right now.

Edit: Basically what Physics said.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Try hitting them with a cross-up nair while facing away from your opponent and let me know it that's any safer. Lucas's nair always sends opponents in the direction he's facing, so a reverse cross-up nair should push shielding opponents in the opposite direction Lucas is moving, creating a larger gap in distance between the two characters, if I understand it right. I'd test it myself but I don't have direct access to my Wii U right now.

Edit: Basically what Physics said.

dis.

Also, mess around with your momentum to screw up punishes if you don't PP/RAR it.

 

[Supper Smogle Bras]

We made a Lucas montage! We spent a lot of time on this, so please enjoy!

 

[Login_Sinker]

We made a Lucas montage! We spent a lot of time on this, so please enjoy!

Not bad. You should put this in the video thread as well.

 

[Luco]

I had a really awesome moment yesterday against a Fox. He respawned, I dodged while he was invincible, got a grab, did some Nair + Uair things, then for some reason Usmashed (which somehow hit him), then ran across, jumped and Naired, DJ Fair, pressured him with PK Freeze (which hit his reflector), then ran to the edge and Dsmashed for the kill when he used Illusion to get back on stage. It looks so smooth on replay. :D

 

[meleebrawler]

I had a really awesome moment yesterday against a Fox. He respawned, I dodged while he was invincible, got a grab, did some Nair + Uair things, then for some reason Usmashed (which somehow hit him), then ran across, jumped and Naired, DJ Fair, pressured him with PK Freeze (which hit his reflector), then ran to the edge and Dsmashed for the kill when he used Illusion to get back on stage. It looks so smooth on replay. :D

I like to use uncharged PK Freezes against recovering opponents to psych them into airdodging.

 

[McDeathstrider]

I like to use uncharged PK Freezes against recovering opponents to psych them into airdodging.

But wouldn't you be open to attack because of endlag? If they landed on the stage without hitting the ledge, they could hit you before you could get out of the endlag.

 

[A Polar Bear]

But wouldn't you be open to attack because of endlag? If they landed on the stage without hitting the ledge, they could hit you before you could get out of the endlag.

Done right, PKFreeze's projectile pattern forces you to airdodge when you approach stage or edge, so you either land with massive landing lag, or drop below edge.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

Also PK Freeze has like no end lag.

 

[Login_Sinker]

[vent] Sakurai, please please please buff this character. Winning against any of the high tiers is so freaking hard T-T [/vent]

 

[McDeathstrider]

[vent] Sakurai, please please please buff this character. Winning against any of the high tiers is so freaking hard T-T [/vent]

It's mostly about what weaknesses in *player name here*'s playstyle you can exploit. I try to wall high tiers out until i see how *player name here* handles things.

 

[A Polar Bear]

[vent] Sakurai, please please please buff this character. Winning against any of the high tiers is so freaking hard T-T [/vent]

There's always gonna be high tier and low tier characters, bud. You'll just have to accept that the character you want to play may not be the character that will always get you the win.

Besides, I like how Lucas is. Being non brain-dead-high-tier is what makes him fun to play.

 

[Login_Sinker]

Yeah, you're right. Twas just a mindless vent after a long losing streak against good characters.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

But Lucas has some glaring flaws I would like to see fixed, even if it didn't make him top tier, I'd love to see them buff certain aspects just to put him in a better spot viably.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

ie: PK Thunder has three seconds of endlag for absolutely no reason.

The amount of hitstun on his attacks is quite low, too.

 

[Login_Sinker]

A faster grab would be nice...

 

[A Polar Bear]

chill guys. we all want our main to be better, yeah, but sometimes y'all need to step back and think about what's real damn good about our boy Lucas. we got grab follow ups like no other, we got really damn good spacing tools, we got literally the most unique and hard hitting smash attack set out there, we got 2 spikes that both actually work, and we got the hair. THE HAIR MAN. Lucas may not be top tier in battle, but you know he top tier in natural style.

 

[McDeathstrider]

chill guys. we all want our main to be better, yeah, but sometimes y'all need to step back and think about what's real damn good about our boy Lucas. we got grab follow ups like no other, we got really damn good spacing tools, we got literally the most unique and hard hitting smash attack set out there, we got 2 spikes that both actually work, and we got the hair. THE HAIR MAN. Lucas may not be top tier in battle, but you know he top tier in natural style.

AND if we get good enough we can style kill our opponents into oblivion!

 

[Lochy]

chill guys. we all want our main to be better, yeah, but sometimes y'all need to step back and think about what's real damn good about our boy Lucas. we got grab follow ups like no other, we got really damn good spacing tools, we got literally the most unique and hard hitting smash attack set out there, we got 2 spikes that both actually work, and we got the hair. THE HAIR MAN. Lucas may not be top tier in battle, but you know he top tier in natural style.

I'm glad to know that you are a half glass full kind of person. When I play Lucas I feel so priviliged to play a character that might have not even been in the game. Also he is really good in this game because of chain grabs being gone and his combo game is insane. I'm so happy he is in the game.

 

[FUEGO!]

I have a silly little match against a buddy to show Ya'll. I blame lag for miss spacing so many times:

 

[Doctor_Link]

It feels so good to hit a bair spike.
Anybody know where the spike hitbox is for that move?

Also, I feel deesgusted when I play characters like MK. Lucas mains are so spoiled by their speed and acceleration while in helpless state.

 

[McDeathstrider]

It feels so good to hit a bair spike.
Anybody know where the spike hitbox is for that move?

Also, I feel deesgusted when I play characters like MK. Lucas mains are so spoiled by their speed and acceleration while in helpless state.

I believe the hitbox is in the middle of the hit, while lucas' foot is striking downwards