People are worried about Project M dying, what do you think?

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Never said that. People just didn't like 3.5. That's all.

People didn't like 3.5 because while everyone agreed that the recoveries were too strong and the characters were overall broken, no one wanted to see their mains get nerfs, just everyone else.

3.5 is fine. It added more playing modes, it added more costumes, it changed some stages, it balanced the roster properly, and unsurprisingly, it's better.

 

[metaXzero]

It is dying. Not a lot of people liked 3.5. So it is actually dying, if they don't do something remarkable soon. More people like Sm4sh over PM now.

Don't spread nonsense. PM's current decline is not because of 3.5. It's because of Smash 4's release, 2 major tournaments dropping it, and several tournaments not streaming their PM matches due to being qualifiers for one of the 2 tournaments. I'm hoping that once Apex hurries up and passes by, things should return to normal streaming wise. Don't see Nintendo being a consistent sponsor for tournaments after this year. Heck, probably not this whole year.

Ninty fiddling aside, this same situation hit Melee when Brawl came out. Now Melee is stronger than it was when Ken dominated the game. Pm should be able to weather the storm.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Don't spread nonsense. PM's current decline is not because of 3.5. It's because of Smash 4's release, 2 major tournaments dropping it, and several tournaments not streaming their PM matches due to being qualifiers for one of the 2 tournaments. I'm hoping that once Apex hurries up and passes by, things should return to normal streaming wise. Don't see Nintendo being a consistent sponsor for tournaments after this year. Heck, probably not this whole year.

Ninty fiddling aside, this same situation hit Melee when it came out. Now it's stronger than it was when Ken dominated the game. Pm should be able to weather the storm.

The same thing also happened when Brawl came out. Melee is still doing fine after that. I think PM will be fine too.

 

[MegaMissingno]

The 3.5 whining is ridiculous. People have been complaining about power creep and begging for nerfs for so long. Now that the PMDT has gone through with it, suddenly everyone's all "Wait no I only meant everyone else's characters, not mine!"

 

[Fortress]

Less people are playing simply because it's not as easy anymore, not a bad thing at all. The players who quit after they need to start putting actual work into anything aren't the players I'd want to fight in tournament, anyway, so good riddance.

 

[Strong Badam]

Never said that. People just didn't like 3.5. That's all.

I dunno who you're speaking for but reception for 3.5 has been overwhelmingly positive among dedicated PM players.

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno who you're speaking for but reception for 3.5 has been overwhelmingly positive among dedicated PM players.

as long as they don't play zelda pit diddy lucas mewtwo snake link olimar ZSS mario ICs or ness

or the other like 30 characters

 

[Fight for Piece]

Heyo. I wanna share something that happened to me recently in my area cocerning PM.

I'm completely new to the Smash community in my area even though i've been playing at home with my brothers for years. I went to one Smash Bros tournament that was supposed to include PM alongside Sm4sh. In the end the PM tourney got bumped because the huge majority (including the judges) were giving Sm4sh all the attention. Honestly it felt like they didn't plan to do the PM tourney at all even though they said they would (I had a feeling this would happen because of the way PM was being advertised on the FB group). It was pretty damn insensitive. Many PM players had to travel from far away and when they got there they had to wait 4 or 5 hours. After that they were told to they wouldn't get to play in a tournament so they had to leave at around midnight after wasting their life watching Sm4sh for 4 hours. What pissed me off is that they really could have done the PM tourney at the same time, they just didnt seem bothered because the majority were too hype for Sm4sh. We even brought our own set-ups and we're only like 15-20 players compared to the 40-50 Sm4sh players. We would have finished years before them.

The next 3 tourneys were Sm4sh only and I havent heard any news for PM since. The last proper PM tournament was in October. We don't have weeklies. I didn't want to say anything on the FB page because i'm very new to the community but jeez... PM has no hope here. New players won't join PM because Sm4sh is too popular here and ofc they don't want to put in the hard work of learning wavedashing, etc and trying to get PM to work at home. So in this community, PM will never grow alongside Sm4sh. Even if the Sm4sh hype dies, that will be the death of the Smash community. PM won't even have the chance it deserves.

Sucks for me I guess.

 

[abcool]

Heyo. I wanna share something that happened to me recently in my area cocerning PM.

I'm completely new to the Smash community in my area even though i've been playing at home with my brothers for years. I went to one Smash Bros tournament that was supposed to include PM alongside Sm4sh. In the end the PM tourney got bumped because the huge majority (including the judges) were giving Sm4sh all the attention. Honestly it felt like they didn't plan to do the PM tourney at all even though they said they would (I had a feeling this would happen because of the way PM was being advertised on the FB group). It was pretty damn insensitive. Many PM players had to travel from far away and when they got there they had to wait 4 or 5 hours. After that they were told to they wouldn't get to play in a tournament so they had to leave at around midnight after wasting their life watching Sm4sh for 4 hours. What pissed me off is that they really could have done the PM tourney at the same time, they just didnt seem bothered because the majority were too hype for Sm4sh. We even brought our own set-ups and we're only like 15-20 players compared to the 40-50 Sm4sh players. We would have finished years before them.

The next 3 tourneys were Sm4sh only and I havent heard any news for PM since. The last proper PM tournament was in October. We don't have weeklies. I didn't want to say anything on the FB page because i'm very new to the community but jeez... PM has no hope here. New players won't join PM because Sm4sh is too popular here and ofc they don't want to put in the hard work of learning wavedashing, etc and trying to get PM to work at home. So in this community, PM will never grow alongside Sm4sh. Even if the Sm4sh hype dies, that will be the death of the Smash community. PM won't even have the chance it deserves.

Sucks for me I guess.

Dude, in a situation like that I would have hooked up about 3-4 setups and ran that bracket myself. If you paid for the venue fee and the tournament, just run it yourself. Depending on lousy T.O's is what kills a scene. My scene got hella pissed at me for ignoring Melee for 2 events that didn't even have much Melee players show up - next thing I know they're hosting Bahamas Revival of Melee, lmao. I am like, wth?! Seriously...

 

[Fight for Piece]

Dude, in a situation like that I would have hooked up about 3-4 setups and ran that bracket myself. If you paid for the venue fee and the tournament, just run it yourself. Depending on lousy T.O's is what kills a scene. My scene got hella pissed at me for ignoring Melee for 2 events that didn't even have much Melee players show up - next thing I know they're hosting Bahamas Revival of Melee, lmao. I am like, wth?! Seriously...

Yes well, because I was new to the scene. It was my first tournament and I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. But yeah.. Now I know. I would have wanted to run the bracket on my own but the 2 other guys who owned the wiis that had PM on it decided leave soon after we were told PM wouldn't happen because they had a long journey home.

 

[GP&B]

as long as they don't play zelda pit diddy lucas mewtwo snake link olimar ZSS mario ICs or ness

or the other like 30 characters

Idunno, the two I fought at Paragon seemed to be really happy with the Din's changes.

 

[Lime Cultivist]

Don't think PM is really dying in the community, but it sure is dying for me ever since I started playing more Melee and 64. PM is amazing, and 3.5 didn't change my opinion of it at all especially since I didn't play any characters that got nerfed, but once I got used to Melee again that was it; haven't touched PM in months.

 

[Fight for Piece]

Don't think PM is really dying in the community, but it sure is dying for me ever since I started playing more Melee and 64. PM is amazing, and 3.5 didn't change my opinion of it at all especially since I didn't play any characters that got nerfed, but once I got used to Melee again that was it; haven't touched PM in months.

Why is it that many people prefer Melee over PM though? Could you explain? I'm just curious. I've played Melee too and I don't see much point going back. It's an amazing game of course and I wouldn't mind playing it. I just prefer PM.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

What we need is some good tournaments, even if they're online. We need that Tourney Footage to hype up the scene.

When we get loud enough on the internet, the major established tournaments won't be able to pin us down with stuff like "You can run brackets, but you can't stream 'em."

 

[_Magus_]

You think PM is dying? You obviously never played brawl in its dying days...

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

You think PM is dying? You obviously never played brawl in its dying days...

I think almost no one did that either...

Anyway, what's the next big PM tournament?

 

[Foo]

I think something a lot of people are forgetting is how close melee was to death after the brawl release. It wasn't just big tournaments dropping them, it was basically everywhere. What used to be 100+ people locals turned to either no melee, or maybe 15-20 people. However, do to the determination of a few, and the crappiness of brawl, melee survived and came back stronger than ever. It's really unsurprising that PM took a hit from sm4sh, because it's the new and hype thing to come out, but it is surprising how small the hit was. Sure PM, got dropped from two tournies but neither of them had to do with lack of demand, it had to do with other things outside of our control.

So, no, I don't think PM is dying. However, I also don't think PM is really growing as much as it should/could be. I do really think there need to be more big PM events, more PM streamers, more more more. We really need some people to step up, and yes I know it's hypocritical of me to say that when I haven't, but sadly, I don't have the time or means to really do any of that. The little I do is try to drum up as much attendance as I can for my local in my terrible scene. (We had 42 people last time for PM too! I know that's not great, but last time it was like 10 lmao. We almost beat out wii-u entrants, but most of the PM players entered wii-u because why not.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I think something a lot of people are forgetting is how close melee was to death after the brawl release. It wasn't just big tournaments dropping them, it was basically everywhere. What used to be 100+ people locals turned to either no melee, or maybe 15-20 people. However, do to the determination of a few, and the crappiness of brawl, melee survived and came back stronger than ever. It's really unsurprising that PM took a hit from sm4sh, because it's the new and hype thing to come out, but it is surprising how small the hit was. Sure PM, got dropped from two tournies but neither of them had to do with lack of demand, it had to do with other things outside of our control.

So, no, I don't think PM is dying. However, I also don't think PM is really growing as much as it should/could be. I do really think there need to be more big PM events, more PM streamers, more more more. We really need some people to step up, and yes I know it's hypocritical of me to say that when I haven't, but sadly, I don't have the time or means to really do any of that. The little I do is try to drum up as much attendance as I can for my local in my terrible scene. (We had 42 people last time for PM too! I know that's not great, but last time it was like 10 lmao. We almost beat out wii-u entrants, but most of the PM players entered wii-u because why not.

That's basically what I wrote a few posts back. While I can't say that unlike Brawl, Smash U is actually good (Still haven't played it), We've seen this happen before.

The major problem is not the lack of players, is the lack of large-scale tournaments were PM actually has an opportunity to shine.

 

[MLGF]

Generally, I noticed the people who complain about 3.5 are the guys reliant on tools that were "EZ mode" or whatever people whined about.
I used to 3 stock them, now I 4 stock them. Yippee, your badness is still noticeable

 

[metaXzero]

Why is it that many people prefer Melee over PM though? Could you explain? I'm just curious. I've played Melee too and I don't see much point going back. It's an amazing game of course and I wouldn't mind playing it. I just prefer PM.

Despite the major similarities, PM is still a different beast from Melee. Some players actually liked most of Melee's cast being a pile of crap because it lets them only focus and train against those few viable characters, some players hate the the lack of lightshield or how C-stick triggers dash attack, some players have their vision colored by previous versions of PM which weren't to their liking, and some players think "just play Melee".

It sucks, but not every Melee fan will be on board for PM.

 

[Smearglangelo]

I was getting a little bit bored of Project M before version 3.5 was released.

Although 3.5 brought a lot of positive change it was ultimately the final nail in the coffin for me. With Smash 4's release I've had less time to hone my skills in PM and I wasn't able to keep up with all the changes made in the latest update. Being a frequent 64/Melee/Brawl/PM/Smash4 player was just too much for me to handle. Heck, I don't think I've even touched Smash 64 recently!

With a heavy heart I decided to stop playing PM so often. Now I'm focused on playing Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4. That doesn't mean I'm completely ditching it though. I'm sure I'll be able to play a casual match of PM once in awhile.

 

[DrinkingFood]

"Focusing on brawl"
Wut

 

[Kei_Takaro]

So I'll just post here instead of cluttering the board with a new thread.

Hear me out, what if we rebrand PM back to "Brawl" with regards to aesthetics as well as remove custom music and retexture the Castlevania stage? I think we can get "Brawl" to greenlight at major events. A part of me thinks the legal team as well as top heads of Ninty only know so much of what was being streamed at events like title cards and whatnot, without looking indepth into the game content in PM.

Kinda just a joke idea in my head (and kinda fraudulent), but I wanna hear your thoughts lol. Just thinking of circumventing stuff in good faith.

 

[Bleck]

"everyone who didn't like the 3.5 changes is bad anyways" haha yeah this community sure is holding together strong

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

"everyone who didn't like the 3.5 changes is bad anyways" haha yeah this community sure is holding together strong

In my defense, I said that everyone who didn't like the 3.5 changes are hypocrites because everyone agreed the power creep got too high but a lot of people didn't wanted their mains nerfed, just everybody else.

 

[Dr.Dru]

as long as they don't play zelda pit diddy lucas mewtwo snake link olimar ZSS mario ICs or ness

or the other like 30 characters

I really enjoyed the changes in 3.5 overall though. Everyone is still good, just different. I think people were too quick to call the changes unneeded and quit before actually seeing what kind of impact they had. Of course, the lack of streamed tournaments of 3.5 is also a factor.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I really enjoyed the changes in 3.5 overall though. Everyone is still good, just different. I think people were too quick to call the changes unneeded and quit before actually seeing what kind of impact they had. Of course, the lack of streamed tournaments of 3.5 is also a factor.

It's not only the lack of streamed tournaments. It's a lack of tournaments. The only things going on right now are some minor locals, so good footage is scarce to say the least.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

Slow/stagnant scenes and lack of activity ≠ a dying scene.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

The thing is, people were wondering the same thing about Melee in 2008 post Brawl release. Melee still wasn't at MLG, Brawl took it's place in EVO 2008, and everyone was all over Brawl. Then the remaining Melee community went for broke, went hard, and fought to stay alive. The doc has a short scene about this in Episode 7. Look at where Melee is now compared to 2008.

It's our turn to work to keep this game alive.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Exactly. We need to get more tournaments, we need to get more footage for the players. PM will only die if we let it.
The scene is just stagnant right now due to the lack of major tournaments, but we can get through this.

Even a big online tournament with some top players will be enough to put up some hype about PM, Melee has got through and PM can do it even easier.

 

[MegaMissingno]

It's not just a mere lack of tournaments though. It's the fact that tournaments are being actively pressured into dropping it or keeping it offstream. It's more than just people paying attention to the shiny new game for now, it's that there are forces trying to shut PM down. Of course that's going to worry people.

 

[Smearglangelo]

It's not just a mere lack of tournaments though. It's the fact that tournaments are being actively pressured into dropping it or keeping it offstream. Of course that's going to worry people.

To me it seems that it is indeed a mere lack of tournaments and streams.

What exactly is pressuring tournaments to drop Project M?

 

[NeonApophis]

To me it seems that it is indeed a mere lack of tournaments and streams.

What exactly is pressuring tournaments to drop Project M?

Have you heard of Nintendo? It's a company that's sponsoring a small tournament called Apex 2015, which dropped PM this year.

 

[Smearglangelo]

Have you heard of Nintendo? It's a company that's sponsoring a small tournament called Apex 2015, which dropped PM this year.

Apex is the only tournament being sponsored by Nintendo.

 

[metaXzero]

Apex is the only tournament being sponsored by Nintendo.

With the exception of 2 tournaments (Forte 2 and Beast 5), all Apex qualifiers were forbidden from streaming PM and couldn't even mention PM on their main streams. That's the story I hear anyway.

Now maybe this is a one off thing and Nintendo never sponsors anything else beyond EVO (which again may lead to EVO qualifiers dropping PM or not streaming it based on whatever went down with Apex). But PM fans do have right to worry about Nintendo meddling after Apex's dealings.

 

[Smearglangelo]

With the exception of 2 tournaments (Forte 2 and Beast 5), all Apex qualifiers were forbidden from streaming PM and couldn't even mention PM. That's the story I hear anyway.

Now maybe this is a one off thing and Nintendo never sponsors anything else beyond EVO (which again may lead to EVO qualifiers dropping PM or not streaming it based on whatever went down with Apex). But PM fans do have right to worry about Nintendo meddling after Apex's dealings.

I didn't realize that this was happening.

Now I feel a bit more informed, thank you.

 

[MegaMissingno]

Not only could Paragon not stream, they weren't even allowed to record the matches for Youtube later. We just lost all those sets for good.

 

[steelguttey]

the op is so fking silly

yea lets have a clickbait title like that one and then bring out a whole new mechanic out of nowhere so people can read it lmao

ive been told that alot of pm players that went smash 4 are probably going to go back to pm after apex

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Not only could Paragon not stream, they weren't even allowed to record the matches for Youtube later. We just lost all those sets for good.

Motherf... Is Apex seriously trying to choke the scene like that? I didn't knew that.

 

[MegaMissingno]

ive been told that alot of pm players that went smash 4 are probably going to go back to pm after apex

It's not the players we're worried about, it's the tournaments. Will there be majors to go back to?