Meta Peach Match-Up Thread : Cloud/bayo/Falcon/Yoshi/Ness/G&W

[Nabbitnator]

Well we can't all leave it up to him. We should be providing match up information ourselves too. It would speed up the process as well as find some tech along the way.

 

[Awesomecakes]

The problem is that without discussion the thread dies. If anyone has questions they should post it here, and the rest of us will do our best to answer and discuss. I think thats a good system. Though Dark Peach probably does have some of the best insight for this kind of thing, and its good to have a trustworthy voice that makes sure we don't accidentally spread mis-information.

 

[Nose]

awesomecakes has got the right idea
dark.pch updates the official mu guides
but we can discuss freely our own thoughts and opinions on some mus in the thread to any extent we want

I've already written some detailed analysis of ROB
and that came naturally with questions about him from frustrated members
we can be a lil more proactive and more frequently share our opinions and convene on good strategy
but things are pretty smooth sailin as they are now

even if it's been a little dead

 

[gagelax]

Anybody know anything about the matchup with ?

Fought a good one the other day and didn't know what to do.

 

[Ffamran]

I think this is an appropriate place to put this. Peachy, eh?

Anyway, the Falco boards began their heart-filled match up discussion on Peach today on February 14, 2015 aka Valentine's Day/Single's Awareness Day. I hope you all can help out with the discussion. Link to the thread here: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4...sion-10-peach-from-corneria-with-love.391298/.

 

[Meru.]

Need help with Luigi's Fireballs. I can handle most of his stuff but not Ive got no answer against his fireballs :l

 

[InfinityZERO]

Anybody know anything about the matchup with ?

Fought a good one the other day and didn't know what to do.

If is above you DO NOT challenge him. A fire hydrant will come down, so jump over the grounded hydrant and assault him. His smashes have really laggy start up, so you can get him on the ground. His dash attack is REALLY GOOD. Do not try to spot dodge it just block the whole thing. I don't think Peach has the speed to punish him after the dash attack, unless you smash throw a turnip. If you decide/can to catch his item, you've shutdown most of his game. How good is your ground floating game? Hovering above him and Dair sounds like a good idea since his USmash has lots of start up and the Utilt doesn't have much range.

 

[redruM]

Sheik's uair is ridiculous. No matter how hard I try I can't do anything against her dthrow to uair. Any tips?

 

[gagelax]

If is above you DO NOT challenge him. A fire hydrant will come down, so jump over the grounded hydrant and assault him. His smashes have really laggy start up, so you can get him on the ground. His dash attack is REALLY GOOD. Do not try to spot dodge it just block the whole thing. I don't think Peach has the speed to punish him after the dash attack, unless you smash throw a turnip. If you decide/can to catch his item, you've shutdown most of his game. How good is your ground floating game? Hovering above him and Dair sounds like a good idea since his USmash has lots of start up and the Utilt doesn't have much range.

Thanks! I was trying to spotdodge his dash attack and did get by that hydrant a couple of times, thanks for the advice. Also, I do have a good ground floating game.

 

[C0rvus]

So I don't know if anyone has anything to say about the Villager matchup, but I was playing it earlier and it seems pretty difficult. Like, lots of getting spaced out, being patient and ledge madness that makes me feel at a consistent disadvantage. Wat do?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Need help with Luigi's Fireballs. I can handle most of his stuff but not Ive got no answer against his fireballs :l

Have a turnip in hand and go near him. You can float over the fireball to get near. Once at a certain range, just wait and see what he does. Once you adapted to what he does when near, you can use that turnip you have to counter what he does or put him on the defense and start your offense. If you stay near him and just out of his attack range, he can not shoot any fireballs.

Sheik's uair is ridiculous. No matter how hard I try I can't do anything against her dthrow to uair. Any tips?

Just move away and go for low recoveries. Do not try to fight your way back on stage or challenge the move.

So I don't know if anyone has anything to say about the Villager matchup, but I was playing it earlier and it seems pretty difficult. Like, lots of getting spaced out, being patient and ledge madness that makes me feel at a consistent disadvantage. Wat do?

Check out the opening post of this thread when I explained how to deal with him.

 

[dskank]

yo pitches,

i duel main peach and diddy, if any of you want to play a few dozen matches against me to hammer out the diddy kong mu im more than willing.

 

[Takehiko]

From my MU Notebook. (Btw, I like using Dch. Peach's format)
Bowser:

Spoiler

Nuetral Game
• Peach's turnips force bowser to approach which plays into the game plan of making him easy to punish.
• Bowser's FIRE BREATH killers: Turnips (from high), Floats, Toad.
• Frame stuff: Moves that outbeat Bowsers moves on ground (Jab, F-tilt, Dsmash, Grab)
Approaching
• With turnip, or from air with Dair. (Except at 90% or higher. Because Bowsers upsmash will kill and his shell has invincibility)
(Please offer any advice if you know more)
Edgeguarding
• Turnips, Nair (Frames = Nair> Bowsers air attacks)
• Space F-air because it's slower than all of bowsers air options (Except Dair, unless he's trying to SD)
KO % (From the middle of FD)
Usmash: 100
Pan: 120
Racket: 160
Club: 155
Fair: 130

C. Falcon:

Spoiler

Nuetral Game
(Please offer any advice if you know more)
Approaching
(Please offer any advice if you know more)
Edgeguarding
• Turnips cause C. Falcon to delay in recovery and possibly die.
KO % (From the middle of FD)
Usmash: 100
Pan: 120
Racket: 160
Club: 155
Fair: 130

Charizard

Spoiler

Nuetral Game
(Please offer any advice if you know more)

Approaching
(Please offer any advice if you know more)

Edgeguarding
(Please offer any advice if you know more)

KO % (From the middle of FD)
Usmash: 100
Pan: 130
Racket:140
Club:150
Fair:120

DK

Spoiler

Nuetral Game
• AVOID his UPAIR & UPB APPROACHES! Then punish
• Space him with turnips to force him to approach and space him out.

Approaching
• With Turnips allowing for escaping

Edgeguarding
• F-air aiming for his head to avoid getting hit by his upB and up Air.
• Toss turnips to interrupt his recovery.

KO % (From the middle of FD)
Usmash: 125
Pan: 130
Racket: 170
Club: 165
Fair: 145
Dash: 180

Dr. Mario

Spoiler

Nuetral Game
• Pill Killers (Perfect Shielding, Jab, Toad.)
• Throw turnips at Dr. Mario head to avoid his cape.

Approaching
• With a Turnip or by Dair approaches. (Except when at 90% or above, because his head is invincible during his Upsmash
•
Edgeguarding
(Please offer any advice if you know more)

KO % (From the middle of FD)
Usmash: 110
Pan: 140
Racket: 150
Club: 160
Fair: 130
Dash: 160

King D3

Spoiler

Nuetral Game
• D3 uses his extra jumps to bait actions.
• Gordo Killers -(Jabs, Turnips, Nair, Light turnips)
Approaching
(Please offer any advice if you know more)

Edgeguarding
(Please offer any advice if you know more)

Mario

Spoiler

Nuetral Game
• Turnips - (Toss them at Mario's head to aviod his cape.)
• Mario's FB Killer - (Jab, PS, Toad.)
Approaching
• With Turnips and Dair approaches. Except if around Kill percentage because his UpSmash has invincibility.

Edgeguarding
(Please offer any advice if you know more)

Pikachu

Spoiler

Nuetral Game
• Thunder Jolts killers - (Perfect Shielding, Veggies, Toad)
• Jump away on Pikachu's (UpT>Thunder). DON'T AD!
Approaching
• W/ Turnip.
• If Pikachu TJ Spams, SHFF, or use one of the TJ killers refered to above.
Edgeguarding
(Please offer any advice if you know more)
KO % (From the middle of FD)
Usmash: 130
Pan: 120
Racket:140
Club:130
Fair:120

Samus

Spoiler

Nuetral Game
• Her bombs (GF Nair), Zair (AD)
• Missles: Blue tip (SideStep, PS/Shield, Jump), Pink tip (Shield, Jump, Float)
Approaching
•W/Turnips, or Rushdown.
Edgeguarding
• Turnips & F-air during her bomb jump.
KO % (From the middle of FD)
Usmash: 110
Pan: 120
Racket: 150
Club: 150
Fair:

Toon Link

Spoiler

Nuetral Game
• Turnips will reach over his projectiles.
• Stay close to Nuetralize his zoning ability.
Approaching
• Mix-up shield dashing & floating against his projectiles

Edgeguarding
• Toss turnips & F-air him.
• T.L.'s Tether grab doesn't have invincibility.

KO % (From the middle of FD)
Usmash: 120
Pan: 120
Racket: 160
Club: 150
Fair: 130
Dash: 150

Characters I need data on:

Spoiler

Bowser Jr.
Dark/Pit
Diddy
DHD
Falco
Fox
Ganondorf
Greninja
Ike
Jigglypuff
Kirby
Link
Lil Mac
Lucario
Lucina
Luigi
Marth
Mega Man
MetaKnight
Mr. G&W
Ness
Pac-Man
Palutena
Olimar
R.O.B.
Robin
Shulk
WFT
ZZS
Zelda

 

[Macchiato]

The Game and Watched are discussing the Peach Match Up

http://smashboards.com/threads/old-...ches-match-up-thread-discussing-peach.390094/

 

[Deleted member]

The Toon Link board just started discussion on the Peach match-up, so if anyone wants to join in you can do so here. The Peach discussion will go until March 21.

 

[Airgemini]

@ Dark.Pch would you like the idea of possibly shifting this thread into a weekly discussion/inviting other character boards here to generate more activity flow among the boards?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Yea guess I could do that. Makes things alot easier. And for some reason im not getting alerts for this thread. We can start with diddy Kong today and have this last till friday

 

[Nabbitnator]

Diddy kong doesn't feel terrible. We don't have to worry about up air too much because its a little more tricky for him to combo us with it. One thing I'd watch out for is fair. As it is a very very powerful tool that he has in this match up.

If we're doing match up weekly things do we need to put ratio's like the others?

 

[gagelax]

Basically in the diddy kong mu you really can't use float to it's full potential.

Side B

F-Air

Peanut Popgun

Diddy has many anti-airs and can stop peach from floating right in her tracks.

 

[XinShot]

Peach doesn't get wrecked by diddy

Basically what I've learned from the Diddy mu is floating potential is worn down, especially when approaching with it.

Turnips are good to pull especially when diddy pulls out a banana

always take the banana
​

recovery is generally safe, but watch out for fair

uair works well on a descending diddy cause that hit box is so big

side b is good for offense, defense, and recovery

up smash is good, but it'll exchange hits on some of diddy's moves rather than leave you completely okay

down smash is kinda bad because it's lack of range, it's good when hes cornered and you're trying to force him into something

golf club is great for the range, i haven't gone into what beats out what here

ledge trump diddy to force him into either a side b, or back air him

back air works wonders

ground float attacks catch diddy off guard

but he can be fast so attack and run tbh
​

power sheild his fair

typically this will keep diddy grounded and you can get in a short hop dair and retreat
f tilt might work too but i haven't tried it
d tilt too but i haven't tried it much
​

turnip his recovery

even if you cant hit him it'll usually force him into something obvious
​

moving around is crucial and mixing up movements is super necessary

side b
run
dash dance
short hop float
ground float
everything to mix it up
​

it's a very spacious match up but nothing terrible, it just takes practice, reads, and avoiding grabs

TL;DR move around a lot and

 

[PeachBooty]

Great matchup guide. The only characters I really struggle against as Peach are Dedede and Peach herself. I suck at Peach Dittos because most Peach players are good and obviously know the character. So, you have to be patient, which I'm not, lol, and Dededes are just EXTREMELY annoying to fight. He's the only character I feel like I have to completely change my playstyle against. Warios can be kind of a pain too, but I just consider him a stage hazard, not an actual character, lol.

 

[PeachBooty]

One of the easiest matchups for me is actually Sheik. Most of the ones I play, I can tell are good, but they can never seem to kill Peach. I always feel like I have the advantage against Sheik, but I probably haven't played a really good one yet.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Great matchup guide. The only characters I really struggle against as Peach are Dedede and Peach herself. I suck at Peach Dittos because most Peach players are good and obviously know the character. So, you have to be patient, which I'm not, lol, and Dededes are just EXTREMELY annoying to fight. He's the only character I feel like I have to completely change my playstyle against. Warios can be kind of a pain too, but I just consider him a stage hazard, not an actual character, lol.

Yep idk why I'm just SOOOO bad at avoiding Gordon throw like..... I see it coming but I almost always get hit.
It's just rediculous, IMO, I feel this is one of, if not the most, difficult MU for Peach...... Only if your going against an insanly food DDD.
Peach has some useful tools to get Diddy, her tilts, Fair, Dair, and sometimes Uair.
Her Usmash is also much more helpful here then you think, Mainly You should space and keep Diddy away, and if they try to Monkey Flip that's where Usmash is definantly helpful.

 

[gagelax]

Yep idk why I'm just SOOOO bad at avoiding Gordon throw like..... I see it coming but I almost always get hit.
It's just rediculous, IMO, I feel this is one of, if not the most, difficult MU for Peach...... Only if your going against an insanly food DDD.
Peach has some useful tools to get Diddy, her tilts, Fair, Dair, and sometimes Uair.
Her Usmash is also much more helpful here then you think, Mainly You should space and keep Diddy away, and if they try to Monkey Flip that's where Usmash is definantly helpful.

Hmm...I'm not sure if I agree with the whole D3/Gordo problem. I feel it's just understanding the gordo physics and predicting how a D3 player will throw the gordo. I'd imagine a turnip would help in throwing the gordos back.

As for Diddy, I've actually never tried usmash as a counter to monkeyflip...maybe spotdodge into usmash? I'll have to try this out later.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Hmm...I'm not sure if I agree with the whole D3/Gordo problem. I feel it's just understanding the gordo physics and predicting how a D3 player will throw the gordo. I'd imagine a turnip would help in throwing the gordos back.

As for Diddy, I've actually never tried usmash as a counter to monkeyflip...maybe spotdodge into usmash? I'll have to try this out later.

Yea, I rarely do face Diddy players at all, so its hard for me to test this, because.........
Well, having no friends(outside school at least) sucks

 

[gagelax]

Yea, I rarely do face Diddy players at all, so its hard for me to test this, because.........
Well, having no friends(outside school at least) sucks

We're all friendly here. As peach players, we must stick together.

 

[Benzerade]

Peach doesn't get wrecked by diddy

Basically what I've learned from the Diddy mu is floating potential is worn down, especially when approaching with it.

Turnips are good to pull especially when diddy pulls out a banana

always take the banana
​

recovery is generally safe, but watch out for fair

uair works well on a descending diddy cause that hit box is so big

side b is good for offense, defense, and recovery

up smash is good, but it'll exchange hits on some of diddy's moves rather than leave you completely okay

down smash is kinda bad because it's lack of range, it's good when hes cornered and you're trying to force him into something

golf club is great for the range, i haven't gone into what beats out what here

ledge trump diddy to force him into either a side b, or back air him

back air works wonders

ground float attacks catch diddy off guard

but he can be fast so attack and run tbh
​

power sheild his fair

typically this will keep diddy grounded and you can get in a short hop dair and retreat
f tilt might work too but i haven't tried it
d tilt too but i haven't tried it much
​

turnip his recovery

even if you cant hit him it'll usually force him into something obvious
​

moving around is crucial and mixing up movements is super necessary

side b
run
dash dance
short hop float
ground float
everything to mix it up
​

it's a very spacious match up but nothing terrible, it just takes practice, reads, and avoiding grabs

TL;DR move around a lot and

way to tell it like it is!

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I agree that Peach has some potential to face Diddy and has some tools to space, kill and approach him.
Because she can float it greatly helps avoid Diddy's grab.
I think floating from the ground makes you avoid bananas on the ground?
If I am correct, her Usmash should generally beat Monkey flip if time correctly and is a good tool to use against Diddy overall.

Her turnips are defiantly a necessity and you should always have one available.
Is Diddy great at dealing pressure? That's what I find to be one of Peach's greatest weaknesses.
Overall, this matchup is likely to be in Diddys favour 60:40 but it is close, so possibly even.

Should we include customs in this MU as well?

 

[XinShot]

Because she can float it greatly helps avoid Diddy's grab.
I think floating from the ground makes you avoid bananas on the ground?
Overall, this matchup is likely to be in Diddys favour 60:40 but it is close, so possibly even.

Floating to avoid Diddy's grab can be extremely dangerous since his aerials come out so quickly (Fair or Uair, Uair can eat through Peach's Dair) but it definitely helps against a grab happy Diddy.

And yeah it works against bananas. Dair can cause bananas to disappear. Float to Z grab can catch bananas well, but practice so you don't dodge and give yourself tons of lag.

60-40 at worst I'd think. I'd give Diddy a slight advantage (55-45) if anything.

I'd also add that Diddy offstage (below) is bad against Peach. So you can often condition your opponent to monkey flip and get a good attack in. If they go for the ledge, try and pull out a golf club. If not, USmash.

 

[gagelax]

Floating to avoid Diddy's grab can be extremely dangerous since his aerials come out so quickly (Fair or Uair, Uair can eat through Peach's Dair) but it definitely helps against a grab happy Diddy.

And yeah it works against bananas. Dair can cause bananas to disappear. Float to Z grab can catch bananas well, but practice so you don't dodge and give yourself tons of lag.

60-40 at worst I'd think. I'd give Diddy a slight advantage (55-45) if anything.

I'd also add that Diddy offstage (below) is bad against Peach. So you can often condition your opponent to monkey flip and get a good attack in. If they go for the ledge, try and pull out a golf club. If not, USmash.

I'd say 70-30, otherwise I agree

 

[XinShot]

I'd say 70-30, otherwise I agree

any particular reason you think it's that bad?

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Does Peachs Dtilt meteor smash anymore?
Sometimes when used on grounded people, it makes them bounce back up instead of sending them high

 

[nozzle3466]

I usually fight this Link player and hes the best player i know and i always feel like im at such a disadvantage matchup wise too. He has insane priority and outranges peach in melee not to mention projectile walls that she kinda struggles with. Does anyone have any tips on how to fight Link?

 

[XinShot]

Does Peachs Dtilt meteor smash anymore?
Sometimes when used on grounded people, it makes them bounce back up instead of sending them high

the hitbox is so weird, it'll meteor a grounded opponent, but smack a ledged opponent up.
in brawl the hit box was above her hand, so i'd say try out spiking a opponent that is returning to the stage after being launched up (or landing a jump) and see what happens.

I usually fight this Link player and hes the best player i know and i always feel like im at such a disadvantage matchup wise too. He has insane priority and outranges peach in melee not to mention projectile walls that she kinda struggles with. Does anyone have any tips on how to fight Link?

assuming you want smash 4 advice,
turnip
power shield
keep him from recovering
his moves are pretty laggy so you can often get in his face and get in good damage
he's also heavy so he can be combo'd by peach pretty well with some down airs
just be a bit tricky cause one hit can send you flying (that dash attack but he can be obvious about it)

 

[KassandraNova]

One thing I'd like to share regarding the Rosalina MU is the use of up smash. Even if Rosa shields peach's up smash, its a great tool for popping luma super high up and away from Rosa. <_< When I started doing this to Rosas that want to run away and shield all day, it made things easier for me. It helped apply pressure vs just dairing a lot of getting up smashed out of shield.

 

[deepseadiva]

I'm still deciding on which character to use against Diddy. Doesn't seem like any character has an actual advantage on him currently, especially with customs off. I also doubt any character has an exactly even matchup with him as well. Hoo Ha is just such an always-looming advantage. I tried out using Peach at a tournament last weekend and got absolutely rocked by our resident Diddy. I chalk that up to my own freshness with the character though, Peach did give me some strong moments in the match and I might be hopeful with her going forward. As I'm still choosing my character choice vs Diddy, Peach might be good enough as any... I like what @ Dee-SmashinBoss says here about some unique tools Peach could use versus the character:

I agree that Peach has some potential to face Diddy and has some tools to space, kill and approach him.
Because she can float it greatly helps avoid Diddy's grab.
I think floating from the ground makes you avoid bananas on the ground?
If I am correct, her Usmash should generally beat Monkey flip if time correctly and is a good tool to use against Diddy overall.

Her turnips are defiantly a necessity and you should always have one available.
Is Diddy great at dealing pressure? That's what I find to be one of Peach's greatest weaknesses.
Overall, this matchup is likely to be in Diddys favour 60:40 but it is close, so possibly even.

Float as an approach is total ass. But float as a means to avoid hoo-ha might be something, and a something no other character in the game really has. Imagine taking Diddy to a platform heavy stage like Battlefield. I'm sure he has his own advantages on it with his ludicrous aerials, but floating+platforms could be used to minimize his grab opportunities? Just brainstorming.

Turnips could be an essential tool for dealing with banana. Ideally, I'd like a character with Gravitational Pull, or Pocket - but Rosalina and Villager have their own problems with Diddy. Another option, and one Peach conveniently has is a counter-item. Imagine everytime Diddy pauses to summon a banana, we pause as well to pull up a turnip. Peach doesn't have to be at the mercy of being totally out camped. She can at least answer back with an item of her own - even if Diddy has the much more powerful combination of Peanuts+Banana. At least it's something, and a package Peach can offer.

And the #1 thing that makes Peach interesting versus Diddy in my eyes:

Kill Power. Girl has kill power now, and most critically: an aerial that can kill early. Fair is such a huge tool and the fact that she can end a stock on Mr. Kong somewhat consistently is dazzlingly attractive.

 

[XinShot]

Turnips could be an essential tool for dealing with banana. Ideally, I'd like a character with Gravitational Pull, or Pocket - but Rosalina and Villager have their own problems with Diddy. Another option, and one Peach conveniently has is a counter-item. Imagine everytime Diddy pauses to summon a banana, we pause as well to pull up a turnip. Peach doesn't have to be at the mercy of being totally out camped. She can at least answer back with an item of her own - even if Diddy has the much more powerful combination of Peanuts+Banana. At least it's something, and a package Peach can offer.

I think she does better taking control of the banana. Way more options and ways to use it than Diddy can. Plus turnip pull is laggy and it doesn't take long for him to run across the stage.

If I'm on the ground and he pulls out a banana I'd try to pull out a turnip at that time to avoid a punish but I'd ultimately just want the banana.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Peachs movement speed kinda hinders her use of banana, and her grab has rather low reach,
Though I bet she can do something.

 

[Meru.]

I think this is her worst match-up but it's perhaps not as bad as I thought, mainly because of her Bair. Shorthop Bair is THE tool Fair. It usually beats it, sometimes trades with or loses against it. You can mix it up with a few floating Bairs sometimes. When you get past the Fair the most worrisome thing he has is his grab. Banana > grab is a pain but Peach is very good at avoiding it because of float. Once he gets hold of the banana abuse her float game. He cannot do any aerial anymore so no worries about Fair or Bair or Uair anymore: his only options are throwing it, neutral B or Side B (especially watch out for Side B!)

Really do avoid the grab though... His Dthrow/Uthrow **** kills super early and making a comeback against a Diddy is extremely hard.

Peachs movement speed kinda hinders her use of banana, and her grab has rather low reach,
Though I bet she can do something.

Banana Dash Attack works wonders.

 

[deepseadiva]

Once he gets hold of the banana abuse her float game. He cannot do any aerial anymore so no worries about Fair or Bair or Uair anymore: his only options are throwing it, neutral B or Side B (especially watch out for Side B!)

Ooo, nice breakdown of his options. Definitely something to keep in mind.

Banana Dash Attack works wonders.

And kills at, what?... 120%? :O

KILL SETUPS YEAAAA

Someone should go into the lab and figure out all our combos from a banana throw. It was important in Brawl when Diddy was top 5, but now it's probably THE most important information we could gather now with Diddy is #1.

I'm sure we have banana -> fair, which probably kills below 100%.