Meta Peach Match-Up Thread : Cloud/bayo/Falcon/Yoshi/Ness/G&W

[Ladyspiker]

He's also easily comboed which is something you should take advantage of.

Yes!! If you are able to grab him at the start of the match, you're guaranteed 30-32%! I've executed this combo many times. (And it really gets them worked up usually, so be cautious for an offensive CF after that).

 

[Nose]

Yes!! If you are able to grab him at the start of the match, you're guaranteed 30-32%! I've executed this combo many times. (And it really gets them worked up usually, so be cautious for an offensive CF after that).

Falcon is ridiculously easy to combo off of throws! at low %-- when I got one, I usually got upwards of 40% or more. However, those uairs always did me in so quickly. If I take the advice and try to fall out of them, I might stand better. I'm going to pluck more turnips to get more confirms-- they can really stop his momentum and set me up for a kill.

Conservative dash attack usually stopped this guy, too, and his kills were mainly because I was being silly with predictable punishes that he did and I fell for every time. Turnips at the edge work great, Captain's recovery is heavily gimped with turnips, but I was much more cautious at the ledge when I needed to be more aggressive and pressure him more.

 

[Dark.Pch]

@ Dark.Pch are you gonna add scores to the MUs or are you just gonna leave it how it is?

I think we should make a big MU chart.

As of now I am not gonna do scores. These match ups I wanna play over and over to be accurate on the scores. I don't just wanna throw a number out there. I like to be 100% sure on things

 

[m0ll0y]

Any tips for versing little mac , Mario and sword characters ? Thank .

 

[Nabbitnator]

Watch your spacing against little mac. It's easier to stay in the air and force him in the air with peach. Stay just above his up smash range and go from there. Get him to the corner and throw him off. You can keep him away easily from there.

 

[speedguy20]

Any tips for versing little mac , Mario and sword characters ? Thank .

Remember your turnups are a great spacing tool, so use it as often as possible. Sword characters in this game for the most part have a fair amount of landing lag, so use that to your advantage.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I have to say for Mario kind of like Pikachu in a way be patient as his projectiles are a tad annoying.

 

[m0ll0y]

Watch your spacing against little mac. It's easier to stay in the air and force him in the air with peach. Stay just above his up smash range and go from there. Get him to the corner and throw him off. You can keep him away easily from there.

i just did exactly what you said and did a back to back 2 stock on little mac . Thanks !

 

[Piano]

Since most sword characters users just wait for you to approach and then start spamming smash attacks (Link even forcing you to come with projectile spamming) I'll say just zone with turnips, and try to punish everything laggy. It's not that hard, but respect their smashes, specially that annoying Shulk f-smash, and be careful with your f-air usage, as they can punish it easily and really hard. I've noticed Link users I've been facing love rolling and spotdodging, so use your down smash to punish those (beware of their own down smashes).

For Little Mac you want to stay near the ledge, and go for grabs that can push him off-stage. There you can just edgeguard with a neutral air, turnips or even a Toad if you're taking that risk. As adviced to every character facing him, DON'T APPROACH, 'cause his superarmored smashes hit really hard. They also love countering your turnips, use that to your advantage. And remember that your racquet sends him flying, so using it near the ledge can also give you a win (watch out for the counter, though).

For Mario I don't have a special strategy, I just adapt to the match. I rarely ever see them using their projectile too much like Nabbinator says, though I mainly switch between Peach and Mr. G&W, so I guess that scares them.

Personally, I get annoyed too much by Rob. Any tips?

 

[Nose]

Rob is really fat, so he's very easy to hit and combo off of throws. He takes a while to kill in that same vein, though, which makes fighting Rob somewhat of a battle of attrition compared to other characters, especially with his gyro and lasers.

Patience is needed in this match-- learn how he likes to dupe his opponents. Some Robs like to pause a second before throwing their gyro, some like to do laser ---> gyro, some do tomahawk laser jump gyro; if you can learn how they rely on their projectiles, you can block/dodge accordingly and move your way in. Once you're mano-a-mano with Rob, don't let him get away. Like I said, he's a big guy, so he's not hard to hit. Just work your way in after figuring his habits and build some good damage from there-- don't go so totally aggressive that he ends up hitting you with a fast fall nair and then the neutral is reset (which is where he wants to be). Turnips can be hard to squeeze out in this match because of his laser, so you have to be pretty deep in neutral to pull one safely-- once you have one, focus on getting a confirm off of it, i.e. dodge ---> turnip ---> grab ---> etc.

As long as you play patiently and wait out his gimmicks, you should have no trouble up close. He can kill with... I think it's down throw at a good percent, since Peach is light. Bait out grabs when you're steamin if your comfortable enough to do so.

Rob also likes down throw ---> uair (or is that one up throw too?), but it can be DI'd/airdodged accordingly and counterattacked with a bair or another aerial if your spacing is correct.

Don't be silly or over-aggressive in approach; Rob loves to annoy you in neutral and then reset it with a nair or throw. Patience and strategy will help you approach, and carefully applied pressure when up close will pay off big when you get that grab or dair. Make your confirms count!

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

So what do you guys think about the Luigi matchup?

 

[BJN39]

I just thought I'd let all y'all Peach princess neighbors know that the Zelda boards will be starting a discussion on the Peach MU tomorrow, and we'd appreciate input from any Peachs (lol almost spelled it peaches.) who have experience in the MU! ^ ^

< "Click me to use Farore's Wind!"

 

[Nose]

I haven't fought a real good Luigi yet, but his air speed makes him harder to combo reliably, as he doesn't fall as fast and can afford to air dodge without getting punished too hard on the whole. If you can bait the air dodge, though, he can get smacked with a good fair or uair, or at higher percents a parasol for the kill.

His recovery is predictable and is where you should excel in beating him. Green Missile has a lot of lag if performed too close to the ground, and your pan loves that if he likes recovering onstage. I'm not sure if dair beats his up-b or if it'll trade/clank. Otherwise, his recovery is rather flowchart; if he burns his second jump right away, he has no option but to charge the Green Missile, allowing you ample time to intercept his cooldown afterwards with a fair/appropriate aerial. If he conserves his double jump and goes low with a weak Green Missile followed by a jump, try dairing him after the Green Missile to knock him further away or for a stage spike, but if you have enough room to throw out a fair, do so.

I'm not too sure about the neutral, but if he likes to come in with tornadoes, just shield em and punish with a down throw ---> bair. He'll obviously be fishing for grabs, so get comfortable with spotdodge mixed with dair if he's approaching conservatively. I'm not too sure how consistent this is, but since Peach is light and a good Luigi main will seize any opportunity, don't play fairs on shield for approach unless you intend to autocancel/footsie them or he'll up-b you for an early kill-- fair in general might not be very good in this match because Luigi's aerials are quick enough to intercept, and he wants you in the air to juggle. Turnip in hand, nair and dair floated at a conservative height will carry you to victory here. If you do grounded nairs too often in your approach, he'll tornado you and knock you in to the air. I forsee you kinda have to space yourself well with float to avoid his aerial attacks and respond with quick nairs/dairs or a drop to dash attack to grasp the neutral.

Of course, this could all be nil in application, but grounded float will be tornadoed if you use it too often, and spaced float w/turnip/dash attacks should keep Luigi close enough to make him commit to an aerial or try and intercept you from below, at which point you can drop and shield for the punish. As the match evolves and he pressures you to the ledge, he's definitely going to want to use grab since your options to move are limited-- remember to spotdodge if he's grabhappy, and you can punish his whiffs to your success.


@ Dark.Pch might have more solid info on the match-up; I'm sure he's played higher level Luigi than I have.

 

[Marie Antoinette]

Been messing around in fg recently and like to pull out peach for the kill. Still having plenty of trouble with the following though:

Pit
Samus (phazon skin!!!)

I was also thinking stuff like sonic/dedede but darkpch's MU writeup already helped a whole deal.

 

[Dark.Pch]

@ Dark.Pch might have more solid info on the match-up; I'm sure he's played higher level Luigi than I have.

I have not played a high level luigi's. Just some average basic ones. At this level they will be dishing out tornado a lot. So be away or that when you are not that close to him.

If he is shooting fireballs, here is usually a pattern with it. He might create a wave of them. I he does t in the air, stay grounded and pushes his landing with a turnip the go in. if he does it grounded, Toss a turnip in the air o hit him or force a block. Just pay attention to how he shoots he out.

After a few hits on luigi and he is near you, block. They will just be mashing nair. So shield it and then punish him. You can't combo him like you can to others. So get like 2 hi combos and then block if he is in a state to nair you. if you have time, counter it.

You want to be grounded more then anything. Cause he will be doing a lot of up smashes and air attacks to snuff you out the air. When in range space short hop fairs. Just be careful doing this when his back is turned cause of his bair. Grounded just have good use of QFR and turnip use. Makes it hard for him to get in on you due to his short range. And for this, he would use a few fireballs or tornado as a typical approach. Move in slowly with a turnip if he is laying keep away with fireballs. When in range, see what he does before you decided to strike. Cause he might evade or tornado. If he tries to get in on you space fairs, a few bairs and turnips. (recatch them if it hits). If you dair his shield, pull back to a space fair. For they might try to upsmash out of shield or do an air attack. This method snuffs out those options. And makes you safe if they block this.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Hello girls. we have restarted our matchup thread and we are at Peach so we hope you girls will come over for tea and shenanigans

 

[Awesomecakes]

I really need some help with the Palutena matchup. The original post is dated and incomplete.

Palutena has really strong aerials and can really shut down Peach's approach. Her Fair outranges everything peach has, and its quick with little to no landing lag. Well spaced shorthop Fair is a real pain to deal with. When she lands she can jab grab or shield afterwards pretty quickly so punishing the landing is difficult. And because of its range and speed, Fsmash won't work at all.

Her Bair beats out every move. its a shield that actually blocks things. and its a strong move that can kill.
She's also weirdly fast, she can close distances much quicker than peach can meaning she can pretty easily punish turnip pulls and get in reliably.

And unfortunately you have to approach because of autoreticle.

What do?

 

[Nabbitnator]

I don't think palutena wants to do use autoreticle. I think we can make it miss with using float and punish while its active.

 

[Awesomecakes]

it just means you can't really camp, autoreticle shouldn't be one of their main tools.

 

[Nose]

I have not played a high level luigi's. Just some average basic ones. At this level they will be dishing out tornado a lot. So be away or that when you are not that close to him...

since you have to respect the tornado I guess you can't do much but space fairs, wait for him to approach, hold a turnip, keep a safe distance at all times. he makes quick work of floaties like peach.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I'll try and give all this advice a shot! I can say one thing though, Winking (I think?), Dot-eyed, and Stich face turnips will go THROUGH fireballs. I'm not sure if you have to Smash throw them but it is a pretty nice thing to know!

 

[Nose]

it can change the neutral into your favour, which could mean something big if you make it worth something. just be careful with plucking, he can convert a grab into bigger damage than we can if he's a good weegee.

 

[Mrawesome48]

Any advice on how to play against Mario. I don't think he is a huge problem but I'm terrible against people that just rely on grabs. I'm having a hard time hitting him because his rolls seem to be long enough to dodge D-smash and everything

 

[FullMoon]

Hello ladies, the Greninja boards are going to discuss the Peach MU among others, so if any of you are interested: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...-palutena-robin-peach-1-19-1-26.369356/page-9

Input would be very appreciated because the Peach MU is just as much of mystery to me as where she keeps pulling Toad from.

 

[InfinityZERO]

Rob is really fat, so he's very easy to hit and combo off of throws. He takes a while to kill in that same vein, though, which makes fighting Rob somewhat of a battle of attrition compared to other characters, especially with his gyro and lasers.

Patience is needed in this match-- learn how he likes to dupe his opponents. Some Robs like to pause a second before throwing their gyro, some like to do laser ---> gyro, some do tomahawk laser jump gyro; if you can learn how they rely on their projectiles, you can block/dodge accordingly and move your way in. Once you're mano-a-mano with Rob, don't let him get away. Like I said, he's a big guy, so he's not hard to hit. Just work your way in after figuring his habits and build some good damage from there-- don't go so totally aggressive that he ends up hitting you with a fast fall nair and then the neutral is reset (which is where he wants to be). Turnips can be hard to squeeze out in this match because of his laser, so you have to be pretty deep in neutral to pull one safely-- once you have one, focus on getting a confirm off of it, i.e. dodge ---> turnip ---> grab ---> etc.

As long as you play patiently and wait out his gimmicks, you should have no trouble up close. He can kill with... I think it's down throw at a good percent, since Peach is light. Bait out grabs when you're steamin if your comfortable enough to do so.

Rob also likes down throw ---> uair (or is that one up throw too?), but it can be DI'd/airdodged accordingly and counterattacked with a bair or another aerial if your spacing is correct.

Don't be silly or over-aggressive in approach; Rob loves to annoy you in neutral and then reset it with a nair or throw. Patience and strategy will help you approach, and carefully applied pressure when up close will pay off big when you get that grab or dair. Make your confirms count!

What the hell do you do to ROB once you get in? ROB bodies me unless he is totally incompetent. Those aerials seem to have no lag. You also can't QFR since you need to spend most of the time blocking and Rob outranges you completely.

 

[Nabbitnator]

How do we play the Dr. Mario match up? Apparently it may not be in our favor.

 

[SiriusPika]

I'm a newb with Peach, but how do you approach projectile spammers like Lucario. Ones that just constantly run and charge the aura. I can't seem to get in.

 

[Nose]

What the hell do you do to ROB once you get in? ROB bodies me unless he is totally incompetent. Those aerials seem to have no lag. You also can't QFR since you need to spend most of the time blocking and Rob outranges you completely.

You're probably giving ROB too much respect once you're in there-- if you work that hard to get in, but then you flub, it can be disheartening and make you not optimize your options once inside. ROB has a fast fair, and a decently fast uair, but all of his other aerials can be evaded quite easily. Once you get in, ideally with turnip in hand, ROB will most likely do something panic-y to move you away from his zone-- this is where you have to carefully watch your opponent. Does he like to grab to get you away, or does he go for an aerial? Learn his favoured opts, and punish accordingly. Almost every situation where ROB hits an aerial on your shield you can punish with a gf nair or turnip toss OoS, and grab attempts can be spot-dodged.

Once you get in, though, just remember to play smart. ROB can be very frustrating to fight, and can cause you to make sloppy choices if he gets the better of you. Action, reaction! Make him make the first move (as he'll be forced to eventually because you're so close and he doesn't like that) if you can't already read what his habits, and bring down the swift, gloved hand of princess justice.

 

[Nose]

How do we play the Dr. Mario match up? Apparently it may not be in our favor.

Dr. Mario? Really?

Peach is the princess of edgeguarding. Doc should never be making it back with proper Peach play. You can argue the neutral is in his favour because of the pills, but that's a hard argument you gotta pull for when we got turnips. I can see where it'd be troublesome where you float to approach-- does dash attack cancel out pills in this game?

 

[Latte]

To be honest, I find the Dr. Mario match-up particularly difficult. I'm not sure why, but it definitely does feel like an uphill battle.

 

[Awesomecakes]

Any advice on how to play against Mario. I don't think he is a huge problem but I'm terrible against people that just rely on grabs. I'm having a hard time hitting him because his rolls seem to be long enough to dodge D-smash and everything

Sorry about that, just saw your thread. What I like to do is Float above the grab range and Dair. This covers approaches from both dash attacks and grabs, as well as covering rolls and spot dodges. Basically, if they run at you and get really close jump up to that height and Dair.

If you get up close enough to them, and you know they are gonna roll jump up to that height and Dair. Because you can move in the air during float you can move behind you to cover the roll, or if they spot dodge move forward. It covers both options. If they roll away, let them. They are likely rolling their way towards the edge and into a corner. just wait for them to try and roll behind you.

 

[InfinityZERO]

You're probably giving ROB too much respect once you're in there-- if you work that hard to get in, but then you flub, it can be disheartening and make you not optimize your options once inside. ROB has a fast fair, and a decently fast uair, but all of his other aerials can be evaded quite easily. Once you get in, ideally with turnip in hand, ROB will most likely do something panic-y to move you away from his zone-- this is where you have to carefully watch your opponent. Does he like to grab to get you away, or does he go for an aerial? Learn his favoured opts, and punish accordingly. Almost every situation where ROB hits an aerial on your shield you can punish with a gf nair or turnip toss OoS, and grab attempts can be spot-dodged.

Once you get in, though, just remember to play smart. ROB can be very frustrating to fight, and can cause you to make sloppy choices if he gets the better of you. Action, reaction! Make him make the first move (as he'll be forced to eventually because you're so close and he doesn't like that) if you can't already read what his habits, and bring down the swift, gloved hand of princess justice.

See that's it, I don't know what is punishable. Do you have stuff that is directly counterable by your moves? For example, first page of this topic says you can Dair most of Sonic's Spin Dashing nonsense. ROB on the other hand can fast fall Fair you and it seems like the Robot has no landing lag. Plus ROB can throw out lasers. So that leaves coming in on the ground where Peach doesn't have range. ROB's Fair flame out ranges your Fair, so that doesn't work. If it outranges your Fair, that means Bair and Nair are outranged as well. ROB's Bair has landing lag, but the ROB I was facing rarely uses that. So are you telling me to air dodge into his aerials and use a Dair when coming out or what? What are some approaching options coming in, floating Uair?

Pulling out turnips Do Not work because ROB has his laser plus top and we no longer have lagless turnips pulls. You'll have to take a hit.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I'm not sure if air dodging into rob would be the best choice. I think it would put us in a very horrid position.

 

[Nose]

See that's it, I don't know what is punishable. Do you have stuff that is directly counterable by your moves? For example, first page of this topic says you can Dair most of Sonic's Spin Dashing nonsense. ROB on the other hand can fast fall Fair you and it seems like the Robot has no landing lag. Plus ROB can throw out lasers. So that leaves coming in on the ground where Peach doesn't have range. ROB's Fair flame out ranges your Fair, so that doesn't work. If it outranges your Fair, that means Bair and Nair are outranged as well. ROB's Bair has landing lag, but the ROB I was facing rarely uses that. So are you telling me to air dodge into his aerials and use a Dair when coming out or what? What are some approaching options coming in, floating Uair?

Pulling out turnips Do Not work because ROB has his laser plus top and we no longer have lagless turnips pulls. You'll have to take a hit.

Fast fall fair you? That's silly. I think you're getting his nair and fair confused-- his nair is the spinning flame with little lag, his fair is the basic arm slash.
You're thinking in terms of range, but range doesn't matter if you have speed. ROB can only fast-fall nair you and hit if you're under him, or relatively close. ROB has to jump up in the air to do this. You must be falling for some sort of bait that he's conditioned you to do, because ROB's nair is very easy to predict from the set-up to the over-reliance when opponents get close-- that's when you quickly nair him before he starts the move.
And, if you can't get the nair out quick enough or you're not confident enough that it'll hit, just shield it and accommodate to what he does afterwards. If you have a turnip, you can throw OoS once he's done with his nair nonsense. If you don't, you have to sit tight and see what he does. He shouldn't be close enough to get a grab right away, but he can probably hit with an ftilt if you go OoS right after the hit. I'd recommend spot-dodging if he likes to grab, and just shielding if he tries to aggressively follow-up (which he probably is).
Fair is not a good idea for his nair, it's too slow and as such your hurtbox is extended while his hitbox is at it's apex in range. Uair might come out fast enough, but I'm not too sure, you'll have to hold tight and try that one out.

I don't know how you got airdodging into his aerials from my explanation! That's outright stupid. He won't throw any aerial out too far from the ground except uair (which you'll know when it's coming), so you'll be punished by any good ROB for doing that. It sounds like what you're having trouble with is getting in patiently. There's no use in using a move while going in-- simply shield, turnip, roll predictable zoning attempts, and once you're in, make him whiff a move on shield and you're golden!

If you don't get why you're golden, it's because there's only so much room on-stage to work with. As you come closer without getting hit, ROB is going to naturally move back towards the ledge. Eventually, he'll have too little room to be comfortable with, as laser runs out and gyro does too, and he can't roll back to buy himself some time when he's right at the ledge. That's when he'll start to fast fall nair you, sometimes do the spinny thing, ftilt, grab, yadayada. Everything except for the grab is punishable with turnip OoS, and most of his options are punishable with some good timing depending on the move. And you should be dealing BIG damage to ROB once you get him, because he's so fat. His up-B has great distance, but it's hiiiiighly punishable because he has to stop his vertical momentum in order to airdodge, and that makes for great frametraps for Peach, which means a lot of damage.

Patience and turnips will help you in this match-up. Yes, turnips are punishable by laser, but only if you pluck carelessly-- when he uses his laser it takes time to recharge, so if you aren't confident enough to bait a laser and then pluck when neutral is far enough away, you can pluck:
- when ROB is offstage
- when ROB is respawning
- when the match has just begun
You only need turnips for getting in and edgeguarding, so you would only need to pluck them in situations where the neutral allows some leeway anyway.

If you keep plugging away at it, I'm sure you'll find that ROB is a gimmicky powerhouse and when you remove his over-reliance on his projectiles, it's a very balanced match-up, if not in our favour.

Or just go Captain and uair him a million times. Persevere and you'll do fine.

 

[Nabbitnator]

How do we deal with the diddy match up? What are somethings we need to watch out for and what things can we take advantage of?

 

[Mrawesome48]

How do we deal with the diddy match up? What are somethings we need to watch out for and what things can we take advantage of?

If you are 75% and above you and he lands D-throw to upair your done

 

[Nabbitnator]

Lets talk about other aspects other then up air.

 

[Awesomecakes]

@ Nabbitnator
Yeah up-throw up air sucks, but peach actually is floaty enough to not really worry about it as much as some other characters. You should only be getting hit by one of them, and you can get out if Diddy has Rage, just watch out for DI mixups on throws cause they can kill with back throw.

Diddy's Fair is probably one of the bigger problems. Its a really safe move. Very good range, its pretty strong, high priority and little landing lag. It will often beat out Nair, come out before Fair, and I believe it trades with Bair. Our Fair does beat it out if you're well spaced, but because of the startup on ours its risky. I've been finding that our Side B works rather well for punishing a Diddy that might be trying to wall you out with them, or is trying for a somewhat non-committal approach. The timing can be pretty tight, and i'm not sure if the Diddy I've been playing would be able to autocancel them or if he is already, but at the very least they won't be able to keep throwing out aerials and you can catch a lot of landings in general with this.

Other problem is Banana. You neeeeeeed to have good item control. If you let them play with the banana and just leave it lying around they will use it to approach you or you will slip on it. Take control of it, and use it like a free turnip. Get good with Grounded aerials, and I did see the thread where you can crouch and hit the c-stick to still do F-tilt/smash while holding items which would probably be a good tech to learn for this matchup.

Also Diddy has the side B of his own. How often a Diddy throws these out varies from player to player, and they do have preferences on how soon and if they'll transition into the kick so be careful. The safest thing would be to space out of the range entirely and hit them when the move is done, though there are some startup frames where you can hit them before their hit/grab box is out. Grounded Nair is probably a good option for this, though i'm not great at it yet. I *think* that Nair trades with the side B kick, and it should flat out beat the Grab of it. Your own Side B is also an option for catching their startup frames of the moves if you get the read.

Diddy's have a lot of ledge setups too. Up air can actually catch regular get-up past 100% which is annoying. And there's a really annoying setup where they'll leave the banana on the edge which takes away that option entirely. Don't be hasty. You can actually just wait out that Nanner making it more safe, and this should make the Diddy get a little impatient while waiting for you to get back on the edge. If they're standing close, you can jump on and Nair which will catch the banana and hit them. If they're a little farther away Fair is an option. Attacking can be risky, especially if you don't already have what they'll do scouted, so airdodging to catch the banana is another thing you can do, and it should evade their move if you baited it out well enough and had the timing down. You'll also score a free banana.

I'm not sure how consistent all of the stuff I've come up with is, since I literally started with some of it like 3 days ago. But thanks to it I was able to take some games off a really good Diddy that I play from time to time and always got bodied.

 

[Macchiato]

Shouldn't we have a character discussion where everyone adds input?

 

[Nose]

nobody really has a problem with dark.pch running the show
besides if we tackle something we all agree on he probably won't ignore it