Data PacMan's M & Ms (Metagame and Match-Up) Discussion Thread

[fromundaman]

Depends on where you jab launched it. If you were close enough it should go a bit below the ledge and cover ledge drops as well.

Now if yoummean immediately dropping when you see the hydrant get jab launched, then yes you can but then you no longer get ledge invulnerability and because of that I no longer need to place a trampoline, leaving me free to run off and Bair you.

 

[BSP]

Sonic, Falcon, Little Mac, and Fox can all run through fire hydrants. Sonic blitzes right through them, but the others take a tiny bit to go through.

I'm amazed that the people that use these characters don't do this, but not many people play Pac-Man either. Once the fast characters outgrow the urge to hit the hydrant at all costs and realize they can ignore it,

 

[PEPESPAIN]

I think that I found a new ledge trap. You can launch the hydrant with bair + upb and It bounces really weird in the ledge. OK. That's known.

Enemies used to wait in the ledge since the hydrant bounces 4 times and then, they get up or jump. When they are waiting in the ledge, they lose the invecibility waiting, you have to sideB just after UpB and you have to eat the PP before touching the trampoline, you won't jump on trampoline and the sideB will hit them on the ledge! The animation does something weird in the ledge with the hitbox active before bouncing on the trampoline. The hitbox remains active but it is blocked on the ledge. If you don't hit them when super armor finish you will bounce on the trampolin as a panic button and you won't be punished.

The most important here is that you won't bounce on grounded trampoline if you are in super armor state.

 

[Nu~]

Sonic, Falcon, Little Mac, and Fox can all run through fire hydrants. Sonic blitzes right through them, but the others take a tiny bit to go through.

I'm amazed that the people that use these characters don't do this, but not many people play Pac-Man either. Once the fast characters outgrow the urge to hit the hydrant at all costs and realize they can ignore it,

Meh. Fox, little Mac, and falcon are characters that are more trampoline vulnerable than hydrant vulnerable anyway. On fire hydrant will probably be able to burn them before they pass through anyway.

I don't think it will matter too much in the long run because none of those characters give us problems bar sonic. However, if it does, just try dire hydrant. @ Froggy loves that move for its effectiveness OoS against rush down, so maybe one try isn't too bad.

 

[Froggy]

Meh. Fox, little Mac, and falcon are characters that are more trampoline vulnerable than hydrant vulnerable anyway. On fire hydrant will probably be able to burn them before they pass through anyway.

I don't think it will matter too much in the long run because none of those characters give us problems bar sonic. However, if it does, just try dire hydrant. @ Froggy loves that move for its effectiveness OoS against rush down, so maybe one try isn't too bad.

Little Mac specfically I think the dire hydrant is really good against. It's too easy for him to run away and knock away the other hydrants. I don't think it's anymore effective against Fox and Falcon than the other two hydrants are, and Sonic is a matchup I struggle with. I really don't have an answer for it.

And omg did you just admit the Dire Hydrant is effective?

 

[Nu~]

Little Mac specfically I think the dire hydrant is really good against. It's too easy for him to run away and knock away the other hydrants. I don't think it's anymore effective against Fox and Falcon than the other two hydrants are, and Sonic is a matchup I struggle with. I really don't have an answer for it.

And omg did you just admit the Dire Hydrant is effective?

For little Mac, I just shield -> grab when he smashes my hydrant away.
I don't struggle with either fox or falcon so I the fact that they can run through the hydrant doesn't bother me.

I haven't even fully explored the OoS dire hydrant yet lol. I'm just trying to give it another chance because I would love to have another useful custom. When I first took a look at it, I didn't think it was fast enough to have usefulness OoS, so I'm testing it again.

It doesn't suit my playstyle all that well though :/
I love the versatility of the other two

 

[BSP]

Little Mac specfically I think the dire hydrant is really good against. It's too easy for him to run away and knock away the other hydrants. I don't think it's anymore effective against Fox and Falcon than the other two hydrants are, and Sonic is a matchup I struggle with. I really don't have an answer for it.

Have you tried camping the ledge with trampoline vs. Sonic? I've starting doing it, and I've been getting the best results I've ever gotten vs Sonic since. It feels lame to do it, but when you've got the trampoline in front and very little stage behind, his running, grab, and spin dash game are neutralized, helping Pac-Man immensely in neutral. Charging Fruit will take homing attacks for you, so that leaves Sonic with telegraphing aerials to try to hit you.

The only problem is if we lose the lead. In that case, it may be difficult to get it back. Even then, he's compelled to approach. Otherwise, you get Keys which are great for punishing him.

 

[Jenny Wakeman]

Have you tried camping the ledge with trampoline vs. Sonic? I've starting doing it, and I've been getting the best results I've ever gotten vs Sonic since. It feels lame to do it, but when you've got the trampoline in front and very little stage behind, his running, grab, and spin dash game are neutralized, helping Pac-Man immensely in neutral. Charging Fruit will take homing attacks for you, so that leaves Sonic with telegraphing aerials to try to hit you.

The only problem is if we lose the lead. In that case, it may be difficult to get it back. Even then, he's compelled to approach. Otherwise, you get Keys which are great for punishing him.

I love using melons, trampoline, hydrant and utilt against sonic. Having a trampoline destroys his standard spin dash approach game, and usually a bounce from the trampoline results in players inputting fair. We can punish landing sh aerials with utilt. Bair is also useful, of course, for zoning and spacing. having a trampoline infront of a hydrant either makes sonic stay in place, jump on the trampoline, or jump on the trampoline and over the hydrant. Melon can make good reads with this. Sh Melon over the hydrant can hit Sonic right when he gets bounced up from the trampoline. Z-dropping melons are really good in cqc against sonic. They have good priority over his aerials, and when positioned right can a punish for attack us. If you're worried about sonic just running through the hydrant, just have a trampoline on the ground. Granted, you should have a trampoline out 100% of the match, but I can't stress how great the trampoline is against characters who approach by running up to us. It basically allows us to know exactly what they're going to do, which is jump.

Also spin dash doesn't one hit the hydrant. It takes a couple hits and keeps sonic stuck to the hydrant trying to plow through it. This is very good for us, because we can just bair the hydrant after even one hit of Sonic's spin dash attack the hydrant. If the positioning is really good, both the bair and the hydrant can connect, leading up to at least ~21% depending on stale moves or not. Also, this can work with Blinky and hydrant.

We also have the tools to edgeguard sonic. I think what needs to happen is more development of this part of the matchup. Sonic will most likely air dodge if you get anywhere near him off the edge. We can try to bait this and get an attack before he springs, or predict where he is aiming with landing the spring. Usually, sonic likes clinging to the edge when he recovers. I believe there's landing lag if he just lands on the stage. Our side B is really good at covering the edge, we can jump off and aim for the edge ourselves, hitting sonic, as he is aiming for the exact same spot. You can also just guard the ledge on stage if you curl the Pac-dot trail correctly along the ledge.

 

[Sinji]

Just saw this video. One key tool that Abadango wasn't using was Pac-Man's back air. His back air out prioritizes Villager's slingshot. He was allowing Ranai to get to many slingshots in and closing the stage gap unfortunately which costed him the set.

 

[Nu~]

Just saw this video. One key tool that Abadango wasn't using was Pac-Man's back air. His back air out prioritizes Villager's slingshot. He was allowing Ranai to get to many slingshots in and closing the stage gap unfortunately which costed him the set.

Even his Fair or Nair could have taken out Villager's slingshot. He didn't even Side B his lloid rockets.

 

[Froggy]

Ok then, against Sonic I was always trying to put Hydrants in the way to interrupt his movement, I'll start using Trampolenes instead or maybe mix it up with both.

On a side note I'm finding a new found respect for the default hydrant, I thought it was pretty much inferior to the on-fire hydrant as I find hte fruit gushing tricks everyone is so crazy about to be pretty weak, but the fact that your opponent cannot simply block it without having there movement interrupeted is very valuable.

 

[Nu~]

Ok then, against Sonic I was always trying to put Hydrants in the way to interrupt his movement, I'll start using Trampolenes instead or maybe mix it up with both.

On a side note I'm finding a new found respect for the default hydrant, I thought it was pretty much inferior to the on-fire hydrant as I find hte fruit gushing tricks everyone is so crazy about to be pretty weak, but the fact that your opponent cannot simply block it without having there movement interrupeted is very valuable.

Hmm, seems like we've both seen the light on the other side
Lol

 

[Nu~]

I love using melons, trampoline, hydrant and utilt against sonic. Having a trampoline destroys his standard spin dash approach game, and usually a bounce from the trampoline results in players inputting fair. We can punish landing sh aerials with utilt. Bair is also useful, of course, for zoning and spacing. having a trampoline infront of a hydrant either makes sonic stay in place, jump on the trampoline, or jump on the trampoline and over the hydrant. Melon can make good reads with this. Sh Melon over the hydrant can hit Sonic right when he gets bounced up from the trampoline. Z-dropping melons are really good in cqc against sonic. They have good priority over his aerials, and when positioned right can a punish for attack us. If you're worried about sonic just running through the hydrant, just have a trampoline on the ground. Granted, you should have a trampoline out 100% of the match, but I can't stress how great the trampoline is against characters who approach by running up to us. It basically allows us to know exactly what they're going to do, which is jump.

Also spin dash doesn't one hit the hydrant. It takes a couple hits and keeps sonic stuck to the hydrant trying to plow through it. This is very good for us, because we can just bair the hydrant after even one hit of Sonic's spin dash attack the hydrant. If the positioning is really good, both the bair and the hydrant can connect, leading up to at least ~21% depending on stale moves or not. Also, this can work with Blinky and hydrant.

We also have the tools to edgeguard sonic. I think what needs to happen is more development of this part of the matchup. Sonic will most likely air dodge if you get anywhere near him off the edge. We can try to bait this and get an attack before he springs, or predict where he is aiming with landing the spring. Usually, sonic likes clinging to the edge when he recovers. I believe there's landing lag if he just lands on the stage. Our side B is really good at covering the edge, we can jump off and aim for the edge ourselves, hitting sonic, as he is aiming for the exact same spot. You can also just guard the ledge on stage if you curl the Pac-dot trail correctly along the ledge.

You could also Side B to the ledge and let the attack linger to punish the frame 1 vulnerability

 

[Jenny Wakeman]

Just saw this video. One key tool that Abadango wasn't using was Pac-Man's back air. His back air out prioritizes Villager's slingshot. He was allowing Ranai to get to many slingshots in and closing the stage gap unfortunately which costed him the set.

I felt Abadango played a little too predictable. For the most part he was trying to get the key-hydrant combo, but that isn't as necessary when we can challenge Villager's aerials easily with ours. Bair is a great approach for Villager.

 

[Tornado]

I was playing a Fox the other day and he was a heavy laser user. Once I noticed this, I threw down my hydrant and shielded myself behind it to make him come to my hydrant and me. I could be wrong about this, but does Fox's laser not have the ability to take out the hydrant? I've never seen it do the job before (whereas Falco's does it in 3 hits).

I know when playing any character against Fox, you can't be too concerned with the laser, but with his distance he was keeping and using the laser every chance he could, I thought it was a good strategy to shield myself behind my hydrant. I won a close game against the guy and he called me out asking how I like playing such a dumb character, blah blah, typical salty stuff. But I thought it was easier just to shield from the lasers.

Wondering what your opinions are against a laser heavy fox? I should also note, that I wasn't too concerned early on with the lasers, but the guy's neutral game was pretty spot on which is why I was more hesitant to approach. I started to take laser damage and physical damage more when going at him.

 

[Jenny Wakeman]

I was playing a Fox the other day and he was a heavy laser user. Once I noticed this, I threw down my hydrant and shielded myself behind it to make him come to my hydrant and me. I could be wrong about this, but does Fox's laser not have the ability to take out the hydrant? I've never seen it do the job before (whereas Falco's does it in 3 hits).

I know when playing any character against Fox, you can't be too concerned with the laser, but with his distance he was keeping and using the laser every chance he could, I thought it was a good strategy to shield myself behind my hydrant. I won a close game against the guy and he called me out asking how I like playing such a dumb character, blah blah, typical salty stuff. But I thought it was easier just to shield from the lasers.

Wondering what your opinions are against a laser heavy fox? I should also note, that I wasn't too concerned early on with the lasers, but the guy's neutral game was pretty spot on which is why I was more hesitant to approach. I started to take laser damage and physical damage more when going at him.

Fox's (default) laser can never ever launch the hydrant. If he spams lasers just slam one down and charge a key for him.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Fox's (default) laser can never ever launch the hydrant. If he spams lasers just slam one down and charge a key for him.

Or, even better: plant a hydrant, hop on top of it, and down-taunt.

 

[Tornado]

Or, even better: plant a hydrant, hop on top of it, and down-taunt.

Well I don't do the taunt, but I start every match against a Fox and Falco by placing a hydrant as to avoid the starting laser damage. I know they can just short hop, but it won't be as efficient.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

I think that I found a new ledge trap. You can launch the hydrant with bair + upb and It bounces really weird in the ledge. OK. That's known.

Enemies used to wait in the ledge since the hydrant bounces 4 times and then, they get up or jump. When they are waiting in the ledge, they lose the invecibility waiting, you have to sideB just after UpB and you have to eat the PP before touching the trampoline, you won't jump on trampoline and the sideB will hit them on the ledge! The animation does something weird in the ledge with the hitbox active before bouncing on the trampoline. The hitbox remains active but it is blocked on the ledge. If you don't hit them when super armor finish you will bounce on the trampolin as a panic button and you won't be punished.

The most important here is that you won't bounce on grounded trampoline if you are in super armor state.

I don't know why but this only works on 3DS, I couldn't do it on WiiU :/ I will try harder

 

[fromundaman]

I don't know why but this only works on 3DS, I couldn't do it on WiiU :/ I will try harder

That sucks, but it is good to know.

 

[Paper Maribro]

Moving this quote here because it's more relevant but

Too many people think that Rosa beats Pac-Man, when I'm certain that the opposite is true.

I'm genuinely curious as to who you actually think we lose to/go even with? You seem to (from memory) not think we have any losing matchups outside of Sonic (and you think that this could be even) and if that is the case, Pac is the best character in the game no question.

This is a very bold statement to make so I'm hoping you've got something to back this up.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

I didn't lose a single match against sonic players and I played top spanish sonic players. I upb ALL THE TIME and they can't rush us.

 

[Nu~]

Moving this quote here because it's more relevant but



I'm genuinely curious as to who you actually think we lose to/go even with? You seem to (from memory) not think we have any losing matchups outside of Sonic (and you think that this could be even) and if that is the case, Pac is the best character in the game no question.

This is a very bold statement to make so I'm hoping you've got something to back this up.

Out of every character that I have extensive matchup experience with,

No. I don't feel that we lose to anyone besides sonic.

These are the few matchups that I don't know very well:


And yes, I do believe that Pac-Man will end up being a top ten character.

But I'm curious, why am I being pushed to convince you? It's not like I'm forcing my opinion down other's throats.

 

[fromundaman]

Out of every character that I have extensive matchup experience with,

No. I don't feel that we lose to anyone besides sonic.

These are the few matchups that I don't know very well:


And yes, I do believe that Pac-Man will end up being a top ten character.

But I'm curious, why am I being pushed to convince you? It's not like I'm forcing my opinion down other's throats.

I actually agree with you (We super beat Charizard btw. Hell anyone with a working shield button wrecks Charizard.).

Any MU we *might* lose is so close to even that it doesn't really matter. I do agree that we are definitely top 10 (maybe even just shy of top 5).

HOWEVER, we play a character that allows little room for error. Mistakes hurt us more than just about any other top tier.
We also don't really steamroll any character. We may not lose to anyone, but we don't really strongly beat anyone either, excluding terrible characters that everyone steamrolls like Little Mac or Charizard.

 

[MachoCheeze]

Quick fire cherries are super good against Zard, especially ones who spam Flare Blitz. They're quick enough to catch him before the super armor comes out. Pacman can just really keep him out with our zoning options and well spaced aerials.

Also Charizard is weak to water and we have a fire hydrant, so...

 

[BSP]

HOWEVER, we play a character that allows little room for error. Mistakes hurt us more than just about any other top tier.
We also don't really steamroll any character. We may not lose to anyone, but we don't really strongly beat anyone either, excluding terrible characters that everyone steamrolls like Little Mac or Charizard.

IDK about top 10, but this part is true for sure. Pac-Man's disadvantage may not be the worst, but his setups and traps all cost time. One mistake can make all of the time already spent go to waste >.> This is why I take wifi losses with Pac-Man with a grain of salt.

I think Pac-Man is top 20 at worst. People still aren't very familiar with the character IMO, and things may get more difficult once they are. Even then, there's isn't anything he can't handle within a reasonable level.

 

[revengeska]

You guys aren't giving Charizard enough credit. One of the guys I play with most often mains Charizard and holds his own quite well in tournaments. He does have tools that Pacman finds annoying, especially with customs.

He has a side b custom that is quite spammable. Less powerful, but it does still kill and is fast enough to punish rolls. His fire breathing takes care of any fruit it hits. As counterintuitive as it may seem, On-fire hydrant seems to help since Charizard's poor horizontal movement means he has trouble avoiding the hazard, and the custom side-b alone doesn't launch it.

Pacman likely still retains a matchup edge, but against a good Charizard it's not simple. I do much better with Fox against him.

 

[Nu~]

You guys aren't giving Charizard enough credit. One of the guys I play with most often mains Charizard and holds his own quite well in tournaments. He does have tools that Pacman finds annoying, especially with customs.

He has a side b custom that is quite spammable. Less powerful, but it does still kill and is fast enough to punish rolls. His fire breathing takes care of any fruit it hits. As counterintuitive as it may seem, On-fire hydrant seems to help since Charizard's poor horizontal movement means he has trouble avoiding the hazard, and the custom side-b alone doesn't launch it.

Pacman likely still retains a matchup edge, but against a good Charizard it's not simple. I do much better with Fox against him.

His fire breath can only take out the fruits before the melon. Every other fruit outprioritizes it. Charizard has VERY few safe moves on shield, and his dragon rush is still pretty punishable on the cross up.

Charizard excells at punishing, but isn't quite as proficient as ganon because of his unsafe moves and laggy attacks. We even disrespect his OoS game with SH retreating fairs.

With customs on, this should be even easier due to meteor trampoline being able to spike any option he chooses to recover with due to its frame 3 disjoint.

 

[revengeska]

His fire breath can only take out the fruits before the melon. Every other fruit outprioritizes it. Charizard has VERY few safe moves on shield, and his dragon rush is still pretty punishable on the cross up.

Charizard excells at punishing, but isn't quite as proficient as ganon because of his unsafe moves and laggy attacks. We even disrespect his OoS game with SH retreating fairs.

With customs on, this should be even easier due to meteor trampoline being able to spike any option he chooses to recover with due to its frame 3 disjoint.

True about the fruit, but it's still taking out half of our projectiles. It's just an aspect of the game that's taken away. Also, Dragon Rush is punishable if used at the wrong time, but it's almost spammable in the number of situations you can't punish it. It's something you have to be aware of at all times.

As far as Meteor Trampoline goes, I don't give it much respect at all. I don't think it's a very good custom, and I think it's nothing short of ridiculous that it got pushed onto 6 sets of the custom moveset project. I believe a few members of this board got carried away with a few idealistic scenarios where it could kill and ignored the practical downsides that will show up consistently in matches using it. If someone can produce tournament videos against reasonably skilled opponents where it's used effectively I will happily eat crow and then change my tune, but until then I will regard it as a totally useless custom.

 

[Nu~]

Abadango mostly agrees with us on Pac-Man...
But everything else is just...weird.
No way in hell are mega man, duck hunt, ROB, peach, and lucario better than us.

 

[MachoCheeze]

Why is Pikachu, DK, and Ganon so low like... dude.

I can see Peach being better than us. She is THE slept on character in the game due to her high skill cieling and little representation. She bonkers though.

 

[BSP]

If Abadango switched Mario and Falcon with Rosa and Diddy, and then threw Pikachu and Ness into A, I'd agree with the upper part of his tier list for the most part. C and below are irrelevant for the most part, but it's still smart to know every MU in this game.

Ordering doesn't matter much to me, only which tier you are in. All of the people Pac-Man is grouped with, minus Ness, have just as much potential as him IMO. It's not THAT bad of a list.

I'd say something like, in no specific order unless specified; the gaps between the tiers are pretty small:
> : I would bank on these guys taking nationals
: These can make top 8 no problem
> : Can make top 8, but a little less likely than the ones above them / I don't think they're as good as the ones above them
: they can make top 8, but I wouldn't expect it consistently.

 

[Nu~]

If Abadango switched Mario and Falcon with Rosa and Diddy, and then threw Pikachu and Ness into A, I'd agree with the upper part of his tier list for the most part. C and below are irrelevant for the most part, but it's still smart to know every MU in this game.

Ordering doesn't matter much to me, only which tier you are in. All of the people Pac-Man is grouped with, minus Ness, have just as much potential as him IMO. It's not THAT bad of a list.

If you don't take ordering into account, then I agree with you.
Although...he's really underrating meta knight and overrating G&W

Edit:
Also...Falcon is a tier too high and Duck Hunt is still way too high. Duck hunt has more killing issues than us with an immensely worse nuetral and disadvantage state. Add a free to gimp recovery on top of that, and he doesn't look too hot.

Falcon has among the worse disadvantage state in the game with a terrible recovery.

 

[BSP]

If you don't take ordering into account, then I agree with you.
Although...he's really underrating meta knight and overrating G&W.

I would switch meta knight with pit and switch G&W with Shulk.

The region bias is showing. Japan has Songun who uses G&W and frequently takes people from 0% to 80% in a couple of seconds. He usually gets KO confirms from Dthrow -> Uair. Earth tends to do well with Pit over there too. Brood for Duck Hunt.

I agree with you about MK. He can still drag people off the top, except with shuttle loop this time. Plus, shuttle loop is a great move in general. MK can fish for dash attacks at KO % for free 50/50s that mean death.

Yeah, Duck Hunt can't KO at all. Falcon's poor disadvantage is what keeps him out of top 5.

 

[MachoCheeze]

Kind of a departure from the current discussion, but I watched the Abadango video above and it reminded me of how I get literally angry for his total lack of Melon use. I think melon is our most diverse, useful fruit and I can never think of a memorable way he's used it.

I dunno, I'm probably talking out of my ass, but I'm not impressed by Abadango anymore especially with his campy-ass gameplay. He's a very one note Pac-Man and I think that is horrible for the character.

 

[Nu~]

Kind of a departure from the current discussion, but I watched the Abadango video above and it reminded me of how I get literally angry for his total lack of Melon use. I think melon is our most diverse, useful fruit and I can never think of a memorable way he's used it.

I dunno, I'm probably talking out of my ***, but I'm not impressed by Abadango anymore especially with his campy-*** gameplay. He's a very one note Pac-Man and I think that is horrible for the character.

Glad I'm not the only one.
His playstyle is quite honestly, pretty predictable and his consistent patterns bore me.
What pisses me off the most is when he says stuff like, "Rosa and Sonic re impossible" when he loses.

Maybe you should, oh I don't know, play differently?

 

[fromundaman]

Glad I'm not the only one.
His playstyle is quite honestly, pretty predictable and his consistent patterns bore me.
What pisses me off the most is when he says stuff like, "Rosa and Sonic re impossible" when he loses.

Maybe you should, oh I don't know, play differently?

I won't lie, he's a great player, and he has found a lot of tech, but I feel like Apex might have gotten to his head. He used to pull out new tech constantly, but since Apex he has really seemed to just rest on his laurels and not explore the character any further while other Pacman players have been catching up and surpassing tech wise.

I don't want to take away from him because he is a good player and still has the best results BUT he seems to have gotten a bit lazy and is falling behind the current meta.

 

[NouveauRétro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2WGd8Wp5d8
After seeing this, I'm amazed at how technically perfect Abadango is at times, but I kind of can't believe this was only a week ago, feels older.

And not just 'cuz he was getting away with all those rolls
I see what you mean fromundaman, Abadango didn't mix it up a lot, but what he did worked really well. And let's not forget the swag attempts.
But yeah, looks like he needs to go to the lab and refill his bag of tricks if he wants to keep winning with Pac.

Different fruits and more zDrop approaches come to mind, once his opponent has downloaded his playstyle, he can bring that nonsense up.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

I won't lie, he's a great player, and he has found a lot of tech, but I feel like Apex might have gotten to his head. He used to pull out new tech constantly, but since Apex he has really seemed to just rest on his laurels and not explore the character any further while other Pacman players have been catching up and surpassing tech wise.

I don't want to take away from him because he is a good player and still has the best results BUT he seems to have gotten a bit lazy and is falling behind the current meta.

100% agree with you guys, I don't like the PAC-MAN full campy style

 

[PEPESPAIN]

How do you punish sheik's fish bouncing? I'm having problems punishing it....