Data PacMan's M & Ms (Metagame and Match-Up) Discussion Thread

[Jay-kun]

Lol, I just accidentally deleted your post. Sorry about that. I think things are back to normal now.

In any case, side-B getting "out-baited" by Villager's rocket is impossible. The rocket travels too slowly, side-b comes out too fast. As long as you've got good skill with the pellet-block technique, you'll never really worry about that rocket.

? pellet block tech ?

 

[Nu~]

? pellet block tech ?

Yeah man. Not many people know it, but the power pellet destroys/absorbs nearly all projectiles

 

[Jay-kun]

Yeah man. Not many people know it, but the power pellet destroys/absorbs nearly all projectiles

....y me not know dis?


Also...I am thinking of secondarying(?) Villager....will that destroy my Pacman metagame?

 

[Nu~]

....y me not know dis?

Also...I am thinking of secondarying(?) Villager....will that destroy my Pacman metagame?

I don't see why it would. As long as your mind can adapt to the large changes.

 

[Jay-kun]

I don't see why it would. As long as your mind can adapt to the large changes.

Pacman has so many traps....but Villager is so Villagy... :/

 

[Paper Maribro]

My friend decided to pick up Sonic last night and I had no idea how to handle the matchup and got beat on pretty hard. I was wondering if you guys had any advice? I tried to use trampoline and stuff but with Sonic's speed, it usually meant I got punished. All fruit seems to clank with his spinning ball moves unless you time it perfectly.

 

[Nu~]

My friend decided to pick up Sonic last night and I had no idea how to handle the matchup and got beat on pretty hard. I was wondering if you guys had any advice? I tried to use trampoline and stuff but with Sonic's speed, it usually meant I got punished. All fruit seems to clank with his spinning ball moves unless you time it perfectly.

Actually, Melon always breaks it. Utilt also has invincibility starting on frame 6, so it can beat homing attack. I fight a pretty good sonic every weekend, and it's normally a battle of patience. Punish his approaches, and try to keep him away. It's not hard, but can be very boring
I have an earlier post about this MU

@fabz97

Funny you should ask. You only need 3 moves to beat out Sonic's approach:
Melon, tranpoline, and utilt
Seriously. The melon busts through all spin dash attempts and forces sonic to either shield or jump. Sonic actually has very few options to land with outside of spring-> dair-> roll
Which can be punished by utilt. Utilt has invincibility on frame 5 I believe? So you can bowl through sonic's homing attack or dair, making it hard for him to approach you from the air. He is very quick, yes. However, your tranpoline hampers his approach. Don't just throw it out randomly or else sonic will be ready to punish the landing, but rather use it in sonic while he's shielding or touched your shield. It comes out in frame 1 so any sonic tKuching your shield is going to get bopped. once the tramp is down, you can use them at time to charge to what ever fruit you need. This matchup isn't dufficukt as long as you don't let sonic overwhelm you, and it may feel awkward because the hydrant is kinda useless in this matchup to use as a barrier (spin dash cuts through all)
Still, keep your distance. But when you need to approach, sonic's aerials come out slower than ours, but have more range. Be mindful of this and you should be able to get good combos off of him.

 

[Paper Maribro]

Actually, Melon always breaks it. Utilt also has invincibility starting on frame 6, so it can beat homing attack. I fight a pretty good sonic every weekend, and it's normally a battle of patience. Punish his approaches, and try to keep him away. It's not hard, but can be very boring
I have an earlier post about this MU

Okay I just did some testing. Assuming move is fresh, all fruit will clank with side-b and if timed right, Melon and Key won't clank with down-b. So your statement about Melon always breaking it is incorrect.

Punish his approaches with what?

Yeah I noticed it was boring haha, most of the time I landed hits felt like lucky guesses.

 

[revengeska]

As we were talking about the Diddy matchup earlier, Abadango 2-0'd Keitaro's Diddy in a tournament last weekend. Link below, matchup starts at about 3:20:00:

http://www.twitch.tv/rushhoursmash/b/617415498

 

[Firedemon0]

Okay I just did some testing. Assuming move is fresh, all fruit will clank with side-b and if timed right, Melon and Key won't clank with down-b. So your statement about Melon always breaking it is incorrect.

Punish his approaches with what?

Yeah I noticed it was boring haha, most of the time I landed hits felt like lucky guesses.

That helps you figure out what options the Sonic perfers if anything, throw the fruit, doesnt clank, trampoline.

 

[Jay-kun]

Actually, couldn't you approach with charge fruit then roll? Charging fruit could stop a lot of his specials and SH aerials....plus rolling to-you know

 

[Firedemon0]

Actually, couldn't you approach with charge fruit then roll? Charging fruit could stop a lot of his specials and SH aerials....plus rolling to-you know

Rolling is easily punished by Sonic because of how fast he is. Trampoline is throw off his ground momentum and is used to break up any large aggression from characters. The reason it is better then a roll in my suggestion, is that Down B keeps going, you will get hit while rolling. As opposed to Sonic hitting the trampoline and spamming an aerial of some sorts and getting punished for it.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

OK, you thought Olimar was even?

It's not.

If you sideB when there are Pikmin slamming on your face, the pellet falls down immediately, so you can pick it up, do it again and repeatedly heal yourself.

You might even be able to easily drop and pick up Bonus Fruit this way too, I'm not sure.

Pac-Man might be the best doubles character because of this, Villager's AquaPlaning and Pocketing, and Kirby's Copying.

 

[Nu~]

OK, you thought Olimar was even?

It's not.

If you sideB when there are Pikmin slamming on your face, the pellet falls down immediately, so you can pick it up, do it again and repeatedly heal yourself.

You might even be able to easily drop and pick up Bonus Fruit this way too, I'm not sure.

Pac-Man might be the best doubles character because of this, Villager's AquaPlaning and Pocketing, and Kirby's Copying.

But doesn't the damage you sustain from the pikmin cancel out your healing?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

But doesn't the damage you sustain from the pikmin cancel out your healing?

....


Yes


.....

 

[Nu~]

....


Yes


.....

Couldn't we have avoided the damage by just using nair to kill the Pikmin? Lol

 

[Firedemon0]

Yeah pretty much. Olimar is not so much a hard fight for Pac-man, we can just obliterate Pikmin, forcing Olimar to have to constantly replace them.

 

[Sonsa]

Couldn't we have avoided the damage by just using nair to kill the Pikmin? Lol

Well I guess you could use the technique in other ways. Maybe, sacrifice Pac's health for your teammate Olimar's? It's interesting to know and may have its really situational uses.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Well I guess you could use the technique in other ways. Maybe, sacrifice Pac's health for your teammate Olimar's? It's interesting to know and may have its really situational uses.

But then they could just jab the PP itself, instead of hurting Pac.

 

[Sonsa]

But then they could just jab the PP itself, instead of hurting Pac.

Oh, I thought from the way ya described it, Pac could almost instantly get 3 pellets down if he had 3 Pikmin on him. Nevermind I guess! Still neat to know. I guess for Olimar's if you want to stop Pac's side-b, even for recovery, throw a Pikmin at him. Any knowledge is neat.

 

[Nu~]

I honestly believe that our only 40:60 or worse matchups are from yoshi, Rosalina, and fox. Maybe sonic, but he really isn't that bad once you learn to trampoline OoS whenever he spin dashes into you, or goes for a grab. Fruit also slow him down since they clank with side B.
Everyone else is either in our favor, even, or slight disadvantage.

And that olimar better have pinpoint aim to hit the pellet.

 

[Paper Maribro]

Guys, I still don't really think we're getting anywhere with these matchup discussions. Pacman9 had a good idea with trying to set up discussions character by character, but we need to do it properly. Maybe follow the Lucina boards idea and visit some of the other threads and ask for input because at the moment, I don't really see this thread going very far.

 

[Nu~]

Guys, I still don't really think we're getting anywhere with these matchup discussions. Pacman9 had a good idea with trying to set up discussions character by character, but we need to do it properly. Maybe follow the Lucina boards idea and visit some of the other threads and ask for input because at the moment, I don't really see this thread going very far.

I really want to do this, and I even set up one match up discussion with the shiek mains.
But we have to wait in line...

 

[Firedemon0]

Guys, I still don't really think we're getting anywhere with these matchup discussions. Pacman9 had a good idea with trying to set up discussions character by character, but we need to do it properly. Maybe follow the Lucina boards idea and visit some of the other threads and ask for input because at the moment, I don't really see this thread going very far.

I would agree with that, I am starting to repeat myself on several matchups, it is getting a bit silly.

 

[Jay-kun]

So I just went against an aggressive Little Mac'donalds in FG today and he beat the pellets out of me . How can Pacman recover stage control or neutral game when launched by these kinds of powerful, fast characters?

 

[Nu~]

Traps and mind games. Little mac's game is severely crippled by the trampoline. He either has to wait and let us charge, or jump and get severely punished. Don't put the hydrant anywhere near him. Punish him if he tries to approach and destroy the hydrant.
Trampoline resets the game to nuetral, and fruit keep up the advantage

 

[Jay-kun]

Traps and mind games. Little mac's game is severely crippled by the trampoline. He either has to wait and let us charge, or jump and get severely punished. Don't put the hydrant anywhere near him. Punish him if he tries to approach and destroy the hydrant.
Trampoline resets the game to nuetral, and fruit keep up the advantage

But I am offstage :/

 

[warionumbah2]

Ok I picked up Pac-Man and i must say he's ****ing amazing, he counters all of MK bad MU: Sonic and Luigi. And just like MK his MU across the board is great, Pac-Man only has one MU that comes to mind that's bad which is RosaLuma a character MK has no trouble beating. The 2 round characters go hand in hand, luckily the Pac-Man boards have loads of AT threads and tips so i'll probably improve faster than i did with MK.

Over at the competitive character threads they mention Diddy's weakness being his recovery, Pac-Man can exploit this so hard using the bell. Monkey Flip will come to a halt but most importantly it knocks Diddy off his jet pack when he gets stunned. He's such a wacky character very enjoyable.

Guys, I still don't really think we're getting anywhere with these matchup discussions. Pacman9 had a good idea with trying to set up discussions character by character, but we need to do it properly. Maybe follow the Lucina boards idea and visit some of the other threads and ask for input because at the moment, I don't really see this thread going very far.

Don't do what the Lucina boards do, do what the MK boards/Mario boards are doing now which is picking the most popular characters in competitive play(Sonic,Rosa,Diddy,Sheik,Luigi etc). When new members come to the board they don't want to know how Pac-Man beats Little Mac,Doc,Lucina,WFT,Zelda(characters that rarely appear competitively and overall not that good) they wanna know how he stacks against the top which is important.

EDIT: Oh you mean asking for input....my bad lml.

 

[Nu~]

But I am offstage :/

You can throw an apple down on your opponent or ledge drop into bell.

Ok I picked up Pac-Man and i must say he's ****ing amazing, he counters all of MK bad MU: Sonic and Luigi. And just like MK his MU across the board is great, Pac-Man only has one MU that comes to mind that's bad which is RosaLuma a character MK has no trouble beating. The 2 round characters go hand in hand, luckily the Pac-Man boards have loads of AT threads and tips so i'll probably improve faster than i did with MK.

I have noticed this. I picked up meta knight a while ago because I liked his playstyle, and because he counters RosaLuma.(also, I'm a big fan of both Pac-Man and the Kirby series. Meta knight is my favorite character in the Kirby series ^^ )
They go so great together it's amazing.
Both are incredibly underrated.

 

[Jay-kun]

You can throw an apple down on your opponent or ledge drop into bell.


I have noticed this. I picked up meta knight a while ago because I liked his playstyle, and because he counters RosaLuma.(also, I'm a big fan of both Pac-Man and the Kirby series. Meta knight is my favorite character in the Kirby series ^^ )
They go so great together it's amazing.
Both are incredibly underrated.

Hey nice profile pic man ))) And..thx 4 input I always forget to charge b4hand
~<3

 

[Jay-kun]

(srry about double post, don't know how to delete)

Pacman8 :3, Actually me thinks Kirby is not underrated and Pacman iz

 

[Nu~]

(srry about double post, don't know how to delete)

Pacman8 :3, Actually me thinks Kirby is not underrated and Pacman iz

I actually meant meta knight lol

 

[Jay-kun]

I actually meant meta knight lol

...
...
...

 

[Paper Maribro]

I really want to do this, and I even set up one match up discussion with the shiek mains.
But we have to wait in line...

So should we wait till the Sheik boards come down and just start this when they get here?

 

[Jay-kun]

So should we wait till the Sheik boards come down and just start this when they get here?

Yah we can be home and they can be guest.

 

[Nu~]

Alright. I'm getting this thing started.

Week 1: Shiek
Week 2: Fox
Week 3: Diddy Kong
Week 4: Sonic
Week 5: ZSS
Week 6: Rosa and Luma
Week 7: Ness
Week 8: Pikachu
Week 9: Yoshi
Week 10: Captain Falcon
Week 11: Lucario

By each week, I mean 3 days. So we discuss the matchup for each character for 3 days. We will also invite people over to discuss the matchup.
Maybe now we can get started. People don't come to our thread to see the matchup because we aren't respected and our matchup thread is all over the place.
Time to show them what we can do.

After these characters are over, we vote on who to discuss next.

Edit: Should we start tommorow once apex for smash 4 is over? That way we'll have more people for discussion.

 

[revengeska]

Alright. I'm getting this thing started.

Week 1: Shiek
Week 2: Fox
Week 3: Diddy Kong
Week 4: Sonic
Week 5: ZSS
Week 6: Rosa and Luma
Week 7: Ness
Week 8: Pikachu
Week 9: Yoshi
Week 10: Captain Falcon
Week 11: Lucario

By each week, I mean 3 days. So we discuss the matchup for each character for 3 days. We will also invite people over to discuss the matchup.
Maybe now we can get started. People don't come to our thread to see the matchup because we aren't respected and our matchup thread is all over the place.
Time to show them what we can do.

After these characters are over, we vote on who to discuss next.

Edit: Should we start tommorow once apex for smash 4 is over? That way we'll have more people for discussion.

No need, you can just extend the Sheik discussion until 3 days after Apex anyways if you're worried about it. I think either the OP should edit the first post with this info, or a new thread should be made. Good idea though.

 

[Firedemon0]

No need, you can just extend the Sheik discussion until 3 days after Apex anyways if you're worried about it. I think either the OP should edit the first post with this info, or a new thread should be made. Good idea though.

I would lean towards a new thread. It is a chaotic mess right now. The OP has not been updated in forever.

 

[revengeska]

I would lean towards a new thread. It is a chaotic mess right now. The OP has not been updated in forever.

Yeah, I said either/or just because this is already stickied and the OP is still active despite no updates. I don't have a strong opinion either way, but you're right in that a new thread would probably make things look cleaner and more organized.

 

[Jay-kun]

3 things
1 Can any moves other than neutral b be wavebounced or b reversed?
2 How do you cancel lag on side b...saw on a thread but forgot it..
3 How do you do the thing where you dodge the water from hydrant...same situation as above


also srry for bad typing..am lazy so am using gamepad to type xD