Official Wario Stage discussion thread! Week4: Yoshi's Island

[Juno McGrath]

Okay guys, I got the idea from the falco boards. Lets discuss a different stage every week. Or every few days depending on Input, Im really counting on you guys here.

Every week we shall discuss a stage legal in the MLG/BBR ruleset. We will discuss warios strengths and weakness's on these stages What characters to ban this stage against. What characters can be effectively counterpicked to said stage.

And on neatreuls we can talk about whether or not we should strike said stage, And what priority we should strike it in (As early as possible or not at all)

Basically i think this is one of the things our character boards need to discuss to get all of us to the next level. If we can help each other we can help ourselves

We should start with neutral shall we?

Anyone have a particular theyd like to start with?

God I hate this stage

[collapse="Smashville"]
Our first stage of dissusion is listed as MLG's "most frequent starter" thats right its...

Smashville​

Well, Smashville features kinda about everything Wario can exploit. Going under the stage is a legitimate option to contemplate while recovering.

No lip means no bull****.

Platform helps us more of than it harms us, people can't camp under it, taking away the harm immobile platforms tend to do to us.

Smashville is often ends up to be the first starter, and imo it's our best one. If CPs don't cover a certain MU well (e.g. DDD and MK), SV is usually a solid choice.

I don't see myself capable of really posting walls of text on neutrals, so I'll leave it with this.

Smashville.

Amazing neutral because it is flat, has a moving platform, and animals in the background watching the *** whipping.

Here's my view on Smashville:
The moving platform is a god send because it gives Wario a "lemme breathe for a second" option. Of course, this NOT GETTING GRABBED shenanigan can really be helpful with that platform. The stage is a good fit because it's a good medium sized stage to allow continuous pressure on certain characters, and yet, it allows Wario to ensure safety when situations become overwhelming. Basically, it is a haven for those who have an offensive game and those who prefer a camping game. Wario's kills moves also benefit this stage because his horizontal kill moves like Fsmash, Ftilt, and FART are superb in this stage.

On the downside, it makes other camping beasts like Falco, Snake, Metaknight, and so on very intimidating on Smashville, but that's for another discussion. It all comes on to favoritism, so if you do enjoy a comfortable neutral, this is your best bet.

I know I haven't covered everything about this stage, but I got you guys to fill in the gaps. Let's goes.

So lets hear your opioins folks!

Why do you feel wario does Good/bad here? Wario does amazingly here!

Do you feel this is warios best/worst neautral? I feel this is second best neutral, being behind Battlefield.

Are there any characters that you should ban this stage against? In all honesty, there's really no one I would ban this on.

Are there any characters you can counter pick effectively to this stage? My favorite character to CP this on is Falco. ^___^

On the moving platform if you grab MK facing the way the platform is moving you can grab release waft him :D

My very brief opinion of Smashville:

Become king of the hillplatform and you've got the match down a bit easier for ya. If you control the top platform, you're focing them to approach, and you run away as you please to the other side of the stage if you want.

Also, this stage is really easy to travel under.

I'd write up some more but BMX got some stuff spot on so I'll just leave this here for now. I might write up more if I can.

Pretty much BMX has it spot on. I'd also like to add that the platform can get you out of a grab release. It's common knowledge but still if you get grabbed and you know the platform is about to be right above you mash so you can get grab released then land on the platform.

Oh also if you jump above the platform throw your tire down so it lands on the platform it can some times throw your opponent off because on the next bounce the tire does it will bounce onto the actual stage.

[/collapse]
[collapse="Brinstar!"]
Its that time fellas! This week stage is known as "Old faithful" to several wario players, So notorious its most likely banned every time you wanna counter pick it, located on Zebes, the angriest planet in the galaxy, The lair of nastiness, The cave of conquest, Thats right its...

BRINSTAR!​

Brinstar, oooo my lovely Brinstar.

First of all, biking up and getting out of pressure is really easy and your bike will most likely NEVER stay on stage unless you wanted to.

Poking on the side platforms is awesome, you can shark on them as you do on the main platform, Wario ***** so bad on sharking on those side platforms if you Uair and you oponents shield a lil bit longer there you go a well landed fart or maybe a shieldbreak.

FSmashing/Ftilting and farting on the sticky **** punishes bad habits like, getting up on the stage by jumping > Airdodge, spotdodges and it kinda extends your hitbox and the superarmor frames contained on FSmash, and allied with Brinstar short blastzones, BAM, 60% kills with fart.

Also there are somethings to watchout... AVOID getting grabbed or put on standup position on the above platform AND on the sticky thing on the ground... Snake can abuse REALLY REALLY well of this by 'tech chasing' you there since Wario's roll sucks...

it's kinda weird to say that but... REFRESH YOUR MOVES ON THE STICKY THINGS, by Jabbing/UTilting/DTilting, all Wario's kill moves kill really early here if not stale so, use this in your favor.

Everything else has been said, like abusing THE HELL OUT OF THE MOBILITY HERE, just don't rush, this stage is almost like, MADE FOR WARIO, seriously, soooo much space to jump over things and repeat it over and over again.

To the note about breaking the stickies:

Do it:

You get free farts perhaps from clapping their shield under the stage, pushing them over and letting them go into psuedo-free fall that is broken out of fast only by tap-jump or up+b (essentially "meteor-canceling" their fall frames from a platform). When they fall, and if you're up high enough you can use the last second of your lag to prepare a buffered fart in the air above them as they fall... I just thought of this, so it may be worth testing it out, if it doesn't work that well, at least I can say I tried.

Don't do it:

Busting bubbles allows for them to get more room, and also puts less room for error when recovering with wario. If you bike under the stage with egg-bubbles bursted, you'll have a chance of getting "GIMPED" (OMG I SAID the G WORD) from your bike, and then you have to rely on your last jump if you used your second jump already under the stage. This is circumstantial of course, I've never seen anyone play against wario and try to bust bubbles and I never do so...

Brinstar is a great pick unless you are playing against MK/G&W. You can run time on a few characters here like Snake obviously.

if you don't two stock your opponent everytime you go to brinstar you're doing it wrong

you can also do the weird bike turn shenanigan on brinstar

-try to bait stuff near the areas where you can extend your hitbox (eggs, the tendrils at the edges of the stage)

- be careful about your positioning as you can die early on the side blastzones

-fully abuse your mobility to camp on this stage

-definitely our best counterpick, the opponent made a mistake if they didn't ban this. be a little wary against mk, as he is quite good on this stage as well. if you play an mk here, be more campy than usual and look for those wafts, which will kill him really early

Well, it's definately one of our top 3 stages. I just 2 stocked a Falco on there who 2 stocks me on normal stages like BF and SV. Thing was that I left my bike on the ground after I learned it gave a bigger hitbox to your moves. Once they got near the bike at a high percent, I wafted and they didn't expect to get hit but did. xD

I think we have some real potential at edgeguarding here. Like when I was at the side of the stage I managed to keep hitting them back with bair and dair. The positioning made it easy for me to hit them since they didn't have much space to plank or food around the ledge or anything.

One question I have about this stage.... is it worth our time to break the bubble-ball things? Not really sure what to call them, but I'm wondering if it's really worth our time in some matchups.

[/collapse]


[collapse="Battlefield"]
This weeks stage is a true Classic. Why does love always feel like a...

BATTLEFIELD​

Personally I like Battlefield a lot. The short platforms are lower to the ground than the Smashville platform, and also static. You can utilize these platforms greatly for mixups, movement around your opponent and cool combos. Also you can camp effectively by jumping around high in the air.

My favorite thing about Battlefield is using the platforms for combos. Okay you all know that Wario's jump is 7 frames right? Yesh, that's pretty slow if you want to perform combos with little hitstun. However, platform dropping only takes 1 frame, so you can shave off 6 frames to follow up on a hit. For example, if you fullhop a dair and hit the opponent on the platform, it will auto-cancel when you reach the surface. You can then immediately platform drop and hit them with an Uair. A slick trick and lots of damage to boot!

All you gotta be careful of on Battlefield is having the platforms used against you. MK gives you hell if he's below you and you're stuck on the floating piece of land. I would suggest jumping out of shield to get out of there and into better position. It's also really annoying when characters like Marth, Snake and Falco just use the platform like an umbrella, shielding their head so they can camp or just reach up and kill you.

Final note, the BF platforms don't protect you from Shiek's GR -> Usmash or Marth's GR ->Utilt. Not sure about Snake's GR -> Utilt.

BF is a bit of a mixed bag I think... if Wario gets the percentage lead or stock lead against any ground-based character, he can EASILY camp the other person out.
The way I play this stage is with an aggressive camp on the platforms, if I see an opening, I take it and rack as much damage as I can, then I go back on the platforms. I almost never actually touch the stage. by doing this, I am able to bring the entire fight above the stage. the only characters that would still beat a Wario that is camping on top of BF are probably Olimar and MK. forget the bike, forget tires, you dont need any of that on this stage and they dont work very well on BF anyway, just use the bike for an extra jump then mindgame your second jump to bait out a uair and punish with fastfalled dair. keep in mind that if you hang around the top platform, your opponent can no longer "safely" pressure you while camping. if they move underneath the middle platform, we can easily weave in with a dair, nair or fair as there would be enough room there. if they dont come to the middle, then they can touch us. just remember to keep mobile at all times and dont bother with bike shenanigans except maybe for edgeguards.

This stage is good for Wario, if you can commit to your camp, you can control the pace of the game, keep your percentage lead and your opponent, guaranteed they are human, will make mistakes.

I recommend testing this out with a CPU on Battlefield to see how much damage you can get on without taking any significant damage and always maintaining the lead. I recommend CPU bcos CPU's are damn near frame perfect with their juggles and utilts/uairs so should be even tougher to punish or bait than a human. Just dont pick up any bad habits like ALWAYS expecting a utilt bcos any good opponent WILL mix it up.


HOWEVER, Wario doesnt NEED to camp or time the other person out or play gay or anything to win on BF.
More aggressive playstyles would definitely benefit from the juggling options that the platforms offer.
On a stage like BF, I would recommend that every time you get a grab, you go for UPThrow. juggling with uair will probably be your main source of damage on this stage. of course, platform pressure also plays a big part in this stage... both to yourself and the opponent.

If you ever find yourself in your shield on a platform and you're getting pressured, just jump. I mean, if you jump and you get hit before your jump OoS comes out then thats too bad, but the only move that can pressure fast enough to beat the jump is MK's uair anyway. Just keep your cool, dont get knocked off that side of the platforms, its almost ALWAYS a better idea to just jump to another platform than to drop down to the stage.


if you play Falco on this stage, you should DEFINITELY platform camp him. same with Diddy, but Diddy has a lot more annoying options to interrupt your camp. watch out for his very fast uair or utilt(both frame 3 I think) and diddy is never scared to throw a nana up at you and follow up with an aerial. its a very easy way to lose your momentum so just watch out for upthrown bananas. you should never even touch the stage against Diddy or Falco or you'll probably regret it.
against MK I would say just take him to FD or smashville, not BF.
for Snake, SV would be your best choice... but if you cant get SV then of course BF would be better than FD due to limiting his grab release bullcrap. just make sure he doesnt catch you slipping up near the centre of the stage where the platforms wont save you. if Wario is camping the top platforms, Snake has virtually no approach options but to throw grenades at you. you can always see a mortar coming if he tries to fire them upwards, but just always always keep the grenades in mind because they are pretty much his only tool against Wario camping above.

^this is probably my longest post ever. damn.

This is stage is not that good as people talk for Wario, it really depends on what you facing there. I HATE playing character which can camp under the platforms or build up a better sharking then you do, like Olimar which can do both, Marth, MK maybe G&W. Ike/ROB can also camp really well below the platforms with Jab, Gyro, Lasers, Tilts

Those are the best stages against fat characters, biteable characters and the ones which depend too much from ground control and DO NOT have a good air control, like Diddy Kong, Snake and DDD those are the most obvious ones, I like to take there Pikachus also and sometimes I take Falcos there and camped at the highest platform A LOT, like 5 minutes in the game were spent there (that's what he gets for being and *******).

If you plan do play with the bike here, don't expect this stage to be the best with Bikes/Tires maneuvering, SV, Final and Pokemon Stadium are FAR WAY better. The only things that tires will favour you here is to MAYBE take people out of the "below platform camping" and for an additional platform pressure.

The platforms let Wario move a lot faster but they also hurt it some ways. If you can get around the bad stuff then BF is a good stage.

[/collapse]


So lets hear your opioins folks!

Why do you feel wario does Good/bad here?

Do you feel this is warios best/worst neautral?

Are there any characters that you should ban this stage against?

Are there any characters you can counter pick effectively to this stage?


3..2...1.. GO!

 

[BMX]

I freaking love Battlefield, Smashville, Norfair, and brinstar. yeahuz

 

[Juno McGrath]

Smashville is my favorite as well.

 

[Gifts]

I say we start with BF or SV since they are the two most common starters.

 

[LordAizen]

For some reason I do the best on Smashville.

 

[Juno McGrath]

All right folks smashville it is. This being my favorite stage in the entire game ill let you guys discuss in then do my own write up of it tomorrow.

 

[BMX]

Smashville.

Amazing neutral because it is flat, has a moving platform, and animals in the background watching the *** whipping.

Here's my view on Smashville:
The moving platform is a god send because it gives Wario a "lemme breathe for a second" option. Of course, this NOT GETTING GRABBED shenanigan can really be helpful with that platform. The stage is a good fit because it's a good medium sized stage to allow continuous pressure on certain characters, and yet, it allows Wario to ensure safety when situations become overwhelming. Basically, it is a haven for those who have an offensive game and those who prefer a camping game. Wario's kills moves also benefit this stage because his horizontal kill moves like Fsmash, Ftilt, and FART are superb in this stage.

On the downside, it makes other camping beasts like Falco, Snake, Metaknight, and so on very intimidating on Smashville, but that's for another discussion. It all comes on to favoritism, so if you do enjoy a comfortable neutral, this is your best bet.

I know I haven't covered everything about this stage, but I got you guys to fill in the gaps. Let's goes.

So lets hear your opioins folks!

Why do you feel wario does Good/bad here? Wario does amazingly here!

Do you feel this is warios best/worst neautral? I feel this is second best neutral, being behind Battlefield.

Are there any characters that you should ban this stage against? In all honesty, there's really no one I would ban this on.

Are there any characters you can counter pick effectively to this stage? My favorite character to CP this on is Falco. ^___^

 

[Lord Chair]

Well, Smashville features kinda about everything Wario can exploit. Going under the stage is a legitimate option to contemplate while recovering.

No lip means no bull****.

Platform helps us more of than it harms us, people can't camp under it, taking away the harm immobile platforms tend to do to us.

Smashville is often ends up to be the first starter, and imo it's our best one. If CPs don't cover a certain MU well (e.g. DDD and MK), SV is usually a solid choice.

I don't see myself capable of really posting walls of text on neutrals, so I'll leave it with this.

 

[RATED]

SV I consider is pretty good neutral for wario, since it helps us more than it harm us.

 

[Krystedez]

My very brief opinion of Smashville:

Become king of the hillplatform and you've got the match down a bit easier for ya. If you control the top platform, you're focing them to approach, and you run away as you please to the other side of the stage if you want.

Also, this stage is really easy to travel under.

I'd write up some more but BMX got some stuff spot on so I'll just leave this here for now. I might write up more if I can.

 

[Gifts]

Pretty much BMX has it spot on. I'd also like to add that the platform can get you out of a grab release. It's common knowledge but still if you get grabbed and you know the platform is about to be right above you mash so you can get grab released then land on the platform.

Oh also if you jump above the platform throw your tire down so it lands on the platform it can some times throw your opponent off because on the next bounce the tire does it will bounce onto the actual stage.

 

[bassem6]

This is one of my favorite stages, hands down. You can camp the platform if youre trying to avoid getting grabbed or if youre trying to get some fart charge and its a small enough stage to where you can apply a good amount of aggressive pressure against your opponent when youre on the offensive.

Also, if you wipe your bike out on the moving platform, and throw your bike from the platform and onto the stage by hitting the c-stick in the direction of the stage, the bike will have added momentum and bounce almost all the way across SV, many times catching your opponent off guard.

 

[Shift]

Also, if you wipe your bike out on the moving platform, and throw your bike from the platform and onto the stage by hitting the c-stick in the direction of the stage, the bike will have added momentum and bounce almost all the way across SV, many times catching your opponent off guard.

I did not know that! I will apply this more often in my matches as a catch off guard option. Seems pretty solid.

 

[bassem6]

I did not know that! I will apply this more often in my matches as a catch off guard option. Seems pretty solid.

Knowing is half the battle!

 

[Dynomite]

You shouldnt get grab release killed on SV. If you are at high % just wait for the platform then start mashing. Its a neutral I like fighting marths on.

 

[Juno McGrath]

A like the GR kill WE have on MK here a lot. Ive managed to bait it and do it in tourney here twice.


Its a life saver.

 

[Zelderu Maryoto]

I really like the platform here. I like to jump onto it and camp, especially when it's off the base. Then I jump off when it goes close to my opponents. Also, it's very helpful against grab releases. If it goes close, just mash the buttons, if you do land on the platform, shield. Always shield when you land on any platform after grab release. Keep that in mind. Also, the stage is relatively small in comparison to the screen, so it makes it easy for Wario to camp.

 

[GOL | 482 | JSalt]

You shouldnt get grab release killed on SV. If you are at high % just wait for the platform then start mashing. Its a neutral I like fighting marths on.

You can still get hit by stuff regardless of the presence of a platform, like Peach's up tilt, Marth's up tilt/tip fsmash, etc. However, if it's a character that can't hit you with a platform above you, yes it is terrific.

A like the GR kill WE have on MK here a lot. Ive managed to bait it and do it in tourney here twice.


Its a life saver.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Juno McGrath]

On the moving platform if you grab MK facing the way the platform is moving you can grab release waft him :D

 

[Blue Rogue]

Care to elaborate?

Grab 'em on the plat while it's moving the right way, free anything.
ed: pirates > ninjas

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Knowing is half the battle!

isnt there also a bike glitch that lets you one hit ko your opponent? LOL

also wario can cover the length of the stage by jumping up from the ledge, using his second jump then grabbing the ledge on the other side, thats pretty broken imo

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Juno McGrath]

FORBIDDEN

Leave this place and never look back

 

[Dynomite]

You can still get hit by stuff regardless of the presence of a platform, like Peach's up tilt, Marth's up tilt/tip fsmash, etc. However, if it's a character that can't hit you with a platform above you, yes it is terrific.

Well yeah but some marths are so use to up smashing, you can block that. It can eliminate options so u know how to DI. Also im saying its much better than going to like FD where there is NOTHING to save you from GR.

 

[Asa]

small enough to keep pressure, but large enough to camp

platform prevents most grab releases if you are careful

platform cancel shenanigans are fun mixups

forbidden jutsu

i like this stage

 

[Juno McGrath]

Okay guys week one is up. Im gonna add all the write ups to the op and you guys pick a new stage!

 

[Gifts]

We just doing Neutrals first? If so Battlefield.

 

[Juno McGrath]

any stage at all.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I'd like people to give away all there secrets for Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar.

 

[Gifts]

any stage at all.

BF, Brinstar, or RC.

 

[Juno McGrath]

its looking like brinstar.

 

[Zelderu Maryoto]

I'd like to talk about Battlefield.

 

[Krystedez]

I'll throw my vote in for Brinstar. It was a life-saver when playing DEHF, gotta admit.

Let's do this!

 

[Juno McGrath]

Alright Guys lets hear those opinions! Brinstar is a crowd pleaser!

 

[PieDisliker]

Well, it's definately one of our top 3 stages. I just 2 stocked a Falco on there who 2 stocks me on normal stages like BF and SV. Thing was that I left my bike on the ground after I learned it gave a bigger hitbox to your moves. Once they got near the bike at a high percent, I wafted and they didn't expect to get hit but did. xD

I think we have some real potential at edgeguarding here. Like when I was at the side of the stage I managed to keep hitting them back with bair and dair. The positioning made it easy for me to hit them since they didn't have much space to plank or food around the ledge or anything.

One question I have about this stage.... is it worth our time to break the bubble-ball things? Not really sure what to call them, but I'm wondering if it's really worth our time in some matchups.

 

[SnackAttack]

All I want to add is how easily one can be killed off the sides here.

 

[PieDisliker]

What I ment by being at the side was that he was around the ledge area and I was edgeguarding from the side closer to the center. Sorry for any misconceptions.

 

[Asa]

if you don't two stock your opponent everytime you go to brinstar you're doing it wrong

you can also do the weird bike turn shenanigan on brinstar

-try to bait stuff near the areas where you can extend your hitbox (eggs, the tendrils at the edges of the stage)

- be careful about your positioning as you can die early on the side blastzones

-fully abuse your mobility to camp on this stage

-definitely our best counterpick, the opponent made a mistake if they didn't ban this. be a little wary against mk, as he is quite good on this stage as well. if you play an mk here, be more campy than usual and look for those wafts, which will kill him really early

 

[Krystedez]

just as a note, in high level play, counter picks =/= auto-wins. If you're not two-stocking your opponent, then that's because they know the stage and mu well enough to avoid stupid stuff. I only beat DEHF with a moderate lead in percent, one stock, with a ftilt on the right side of the stage (the vine extended its hitbox)

Now, if you're LOSING on brinstar, terribly, or often, then you're doing it wrong. . .

Though I do find it hard to believe (NOW!) that it would be difficult to get a good lead on the stage and keep pressure on the opponent. There is no reason why a wario should NOT be getting close to two-stocks or at least quick games.

 

[Padô]

Brinstar, oooo my lovely Brinstar.

First of all, biking up and getting out of pressure is really easy and your bike will most likely NEVER stay on stage unless you wanted to.

Poking on the side platforms is awesome, you can shark on them as you do on the main platform, Wario ***** so bad on sharking on those side platforms if you Uair and you oponents shield a lil bit longer there you go a well landed fart or maybe a shieldbreak.

FSmashing/Ftilting and farting on the sticky **** punishes bad habits like, getting up on the stage by jumping > Airdodge, spotdodges and it kinda extends your hitbox and the superarmor frames contained on FSmash, and allied with Brinstar short blastzones, BAM, 60% kills with fart.

Also there are somethings to watchout... AVOID getting grabbed or put on standup position on the above platform AND on the sticky thing on the ground... Snake can abuse REALLY REALLY well of this by 'tech chasing' you there since Wario's roll sucks...

it's kinda weird to say that but... REFRESH YOUR MOVES ON THE STICKY THINGS, by Jabbing/UTilting/DTilting, all Wario's kill moves kill really early here if not stale so, use this in your favor.

Everything else has been said, like abusing THE HELL OUT OF THE MOBILITY HERE, just don't rush, this stage is almost like, MADE FOR WARIO, seriously, soooo much space to jump over things and repeat it over and over again.