Official Stage Legality Discussion

[Barge]

No ones really made a good point why its legal at all.

Theres too many hazards, the platforms are small
It's pretty hard to recover with those ledges.
Characters with good jumps/fly have an obvious advantage.
Especially Metaknight, he doesn't have to worry about anything pretty much >_>

Small boundries, that too.

 

[deepseadiva]

No ones really made a good point why its legal at all.

Theres too many hazards, the platforms are small
It's pretty hard to recover with those ledges.
Characters with good jumps/fly have an obvious advantage.
Especially Metaknight, he doesn't have to worry about anything pretty much >_>

Small boundries, that too.

None of those are really good points to have it banned.

While there are hazards, they are incredibly obvious Barge. No good player will ever get hit by them by their own accord.

"It's pretty hard to recover with those ledges." It's actually the opposite. The large number of ledges make recovering that much easier due to many more options for sweetspotting.

And the point of a counterpick is to have an advantage. Norfair is very fair Barge.

I've been neglecting this thread for a bit. *sigh* I'll reply to things some time soon.

 

[Barge]

Lol, you're acting like you're playing alone in that stage. Your opponent will try to know you into them.
And gimping is pretty easy, especially with the small boundries.


Oh, and when the lava covers everything except 1 platform? -_-

 

[deepseadiva]

Lol, you're acting like you're playing alone in that stage. Your opponent will try to know you into them.
And gimping is pretty easy, especially with the small boundries.


Oh, and when the lava covers everything except 1 platform? -_-

No..., I know your opponent can take advantage of the hazards, but they really don't do much beyond some damage. Nothing broken.

The gimping thing is wrong though. Olimar and Ivysaur love this stage to pieces specifically because they won't be gimped there.

And the big wave, the one that forms the capsule is VERY obvious. Simply shield, dodge, ledgegrab, or go to the capsule. It's very easy to avoid.

 

[Barge]

You shouldn't have to worry about avoiding something every 5 seconds in a stage that is not coming from your opponent.

 

[Sosuke]

I honestly think Brinstar has some problems.
Too much havoc can be had with all the stupid things at that level.
Its pretty plain, yeah, but still. The few things on it totally mess it up. =/

Someone start arguing with me about this so I can win.

 

[Barge]

I honestly think Brinstar has some problems.
Too much havoc can be had with all the stupid things at that level.
Its pretty plain, yeah, but still. The few things on it totally mess it up. =/

Someone start arguing with me about this so I can win.

Brawl characters are too big for it. They should've resized it

 

[Sosuke]

Argue against me. >_>
Or you can join the alliance!

Sasuke-Barge alliance ftw!


Those stupid things that split the level in half is the main problem with this stage. =/

 

[deepseadiva]

Norfair is fair.

Hazards are obvious and incredibly avoidable.
Many platforms give a decent advantage to certain characters. Thus making it a good counterpick.

I don't see a problem.

Brinstar?!

What's wrong with Brinstar?

 

[Barge]

Brinstar has really small boundries, and the side platforms get in the way.

The split thingys ruin projectile game D:

 

[deepseadiva]

Brinstar has really small boundries, and the side platforms get in the way.

The split thingys ruin projectile game D:

Sorry, but:

OHNOEZ LESS CAMPING

Small boundaries, and platforms do not equal a ban.

 

[Barge]

I never said it deserved a ban, I said it sucks.

 

[Sosuke]

Brinstar?!

What's wrong with Brinstar?

I don't know anything thats right with it besides normal blast zones, stage size, and platform positioning.
The lavas not even that bad. I really don't care about that.

The stage itself is very glitchy.

 

[deepseadiva]

I never said it deserved a ban, I said it sucks.

Ah, okay. I don't like it either.

The stage itself is very glitchy.

I haven't looked into these glitches. But they can't be that bad. Many stages have glitches and the stance is: if you caused it, you pay for it.

 

[Sosuke]

I haven't looked into these glitches. But they can't be that bad. Many stages have glitches and the stance is: if you caused it, you pay for it.

Its not something to really argue over. Character boards don't discuss this stuff (to my knowledge), so idc. Some characters purely can **** in ways you can't imagine, based on things I've noticed. And some charters can't do anything if put into certain positions.

No one takes full advantage of this stage, is all (yet).

But the yet is what bothers me.

 

[infomon]

Sonics like Brinstar because it easily lets us use our invincible airdash glitch, and mess with recoveries by throwing them down through the balls (causing a stage split). But it's seriously not a big deal, once you know those tricks they're very situational and you just avoid the obvious traps... so Sonic can go invincible, he's still not a good character lol.

Just sayin'. It's glitchy but definitely not game-breakingly glitchy, it just changes situational strategy. Which is cool.

 

[Sosuke]

DK cries in fear. ;_;

Not that it matters. Thats what banning stages is for anywayz.

(I just wish it was always banned >_>)


Edit:
I changed my mind.
Ivysaur cries more.

 

[Natch]

Lucas ***** there, ROB sucks there.

 

[Barge]

I don't know why they increased the size of brawl characters

I bet if they kept them the size they were in melee + made everyone a bit lighter, it'd be a faster paced game.

 

[Deoxys]

I don't know why they increased the size of brawl characters

I bet if they kept them the size they were in melee + made everyone a bit lighter, it'd be a faster paced game.

That's wonderful, but this is the Official Stage Legality Discussion, not the Official Complain About Brawl Discussion.

The stage itself is very glitchy.

What's an example glitch?

...Brinstar is my least favorite legal stage by far (due to the music and general lameness of it), I would love for it to be somehow worthy of a ban.

 

[deepseadiva]

I'd like to ask you again why you think 9 stages takes too long. The people going to a tournament are going to already know what stages to strike ASAP (unless they're scrubs, but frankly we should not be making rules based around them), so it's only going to take a few extra seconds at most. Assuming there's a large number of rounds, all it will result in is a few more minutes added to the tournament at most.

I've changed my mind. While personally, I'd run a tournament with five starters (I think it mixes variety and efficiency nicely), I see the advantages of having nine starters.

But it will need to be situational to each competition. If it's a biweekly with a small amount of knowledgeable players, then hell, go for the nine. But if it's a large tournament, publicized, with a substantial amount of the competitors traveling their via their mom's dropping them off, then I'd go for three. It really does add a large amount of time, time better spent actually playing.

And we can't just brush it aside and say "Oh, well why are we thinking of the noobs and not the pros?" It's because we depend on being an open and accepting community. We don't need a ruleset with a learning curve to shun them away. A smaller list for the more larger tournaments, a larger list for the smaller ones. Possibly even expanding the starter list as a tournament goes toward the finals. A tournament starting with three, finals ending with nine.

This is why I'm now in favor of the starter/counter list. Though the ban/counter list can go to hell. D**** indecisive SBR. Ban or don't ban a stage. Don't give, "Eh, if you wanna..."

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville

Yoshi's Island
Pokémon Stadium 1

Starter/Counter
Castle Siege
Delfino
Halberd
Lylat Cruise

The starter lists depending on tournament size. As size goes up, or the closer you get to the finals, include another color to your starter list.

 

[Deoxys]

Sometimes the SBR's decisive decisions are bad, though (GHZ).

Also, striking with 5 stages takes like 10 seconds max even with stoned n00bs. I can't see justifying only 3 starters unless you just do random or something, which would be bad anyway.

 

[Zhouten]

My main character is Ganondorf so I absolutely hate ALL stages with platforms all over the place if I'm playing a serious match, other than that, Im fine with most stages.

 

[Wallehh]

The ruined alot of the stages in this game

 

[AlexX]

And we can't just brush it aside and say "Oh, well why are we thinking of the noobs and not the pros?" It's because we depend on being an open and accepting community. We don't need a ruleset with a learning curve to shun them away.

Why should we be so open to make rules around them? Odds are none will be making it past the first couple rounds, so there's hardly any need to cater to them when they aren't going to be lasting very long. I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm saying it because it's true... Rules added purely for benifitting people who are eliminated from a tournament in the early stages are just a detriment.

Plus as someone else said, it takes a matter of seconds to strike stages, even with low-level players in the mix. It's not worth reducing starter stages just to save an extra 3-5 seconds.

 

[Deoxys]

My main character is Ganondorf so I absolutely hate ALL stages with platforms all over the place if I'm playing a serious match, other than that, Im fine with most stages.

I'd think Norfair and BF would be excellent for Ganondorf.

 

[StarHawk_30]

I dont think Port Town Aero Dive should be banned because it's such a fun, and unpredictable stage (although in competitive play most players tend to focus on killing the other players rather than the stage hazards itself)

 

[Veril]

Port Aero Dive isn't really unpredictable. It follows a set pattern that gives an easy way to avoid cars when they show up.

 

[Barge]

The cars do like 20% damage and have enormous KB >_>

 

[DEDEDEJr]

Man, Earthbound stages are all banned...so sad.

 

[Deoxys]

The cars do like 20% damage and have enormous KB >_>

This:

Port Aero Dive isn't really unpredictable. It follows a set pattern that gives an easy way to avoid cars when they show up.

10thats

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Doesn't the lack of edges sorta screw Oli and Ivy and other tether recoveries REALLY BADLY.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Port Aero Dive isn't really unpredictable. It follows a set pattern that gives an easy way to avoid cars when they show up.

I dont think Port Town Aero Dive should be banned because it's such a fun, and unpredictable stage (although in competitive play most players tend to focus on killing the other players rather than the stage hazards itself)

Cause they totally won't try to knock each other to the lower level. They totally aren't going to die at early percentages. There is totally a warning.
The hazards totally do not disrupt gameplay.

 

[Deoxys]

Doesn't the lack of edges sorta screw Oli and Ivy and other tether recoveries REALLY BADLY.

Yeah, they do, when there's no track below to save them (which there usually is). Just because some characters suck on certain levels isn't grounds to ban the level, though: levels being bad for certain characters is an integral part to counterpicking.

Cause they totally won't try to knock each other to the lower level. They totally aren't going to die at early percentages. There is totally a warning.
The hazards totally do not disrupt gameplay.

Assuming you're being sarcastic, you must think Jungle Japes should be banned, eh? You can knock your opponents towards the hazards, sure, but you can do that with any hazard. Yes, the hazards are powerful, but if you don't let yourself get knocked to where they can be, you won't be punished. Thus, it is no less fair than Japes, unless you are saying that the fact that there aren't always cars on segments where they can't be predicted makes the stage unfair, which I don't see anyone making..

 

[o0gosu0o]

Umm, I really think that Halberd should be completely banned, it changes alot, things that attack you, and sometimes u retardedly fall through the floating part of the stage

 

[x After Dawn x]

Umm, I really think that Halberd should be completely banned, it changes alot, things that attack you, and sometimes u retardedly fall through the floating part of the stage

*facepalm*

 

[victra♥]

Umm, I really think that Halberd should be completely banned, it changes alot, things that attack you, and sometimes u retardedly fall through the floating part of the stage

Actually, I think this is a legit reason imo.

 

[deepseadiva]

Assuming you're being sarcastic, you must think Jungle Japes should be banned, eh? You can knock your opponents towards the hazards, sure, but you can do that with any hazard. Yes, the hazards are powerful, but if you don't let yourself get knocked to where they can be, you won't be punished. Thus, it is no less fair than Japes, unless you are saying that the fact that there aren't always cars on segments where they can't be predicted makes the stage unfair, which I don't see anyone making..

Jungle Japes is very different. There is a stage, and there's an off-stage. The water on JJ doesn't randomly come swerving in atop the platforms giving a 1 second warning to a over powered hazard.

The real Jungle Japes is always there, the warning is constant, and the only way to get your opponent there is by knocking them off the stage. A basic Brawl concept.

Port Town on the other hand has an extremely powerful hazard, on stage, with very little warning. When a simple grab can put you in the headlights of the same level of hazard as Jungle Japes, I'd be very concerned having it tournament legal.

Umm, I really think that Halberd should be completely banned, it changes alot, things that attack you, and sometimes u retardedly fall through the floating part of the stage

The fall through glitch isn't very common. It'd have to be, or at least easy to activate, for a ban to happen.

 

[Deoxys]

Jungle Japes is very different. There is a stage, and there's an off-stage. The water on JJ doesn't randomly come swerving in atop the platforms giving a 1 second warning to a over powered hazard.

The real Jungle Japes is always there, the warning is constant, and the only way to get your opponent there is by knocking them off the stage. A basic Brawl concept.

Port Town on the other hand has an extremely powerful hazard, on stage, with very little warning. When a simple grab can put you in the headlights of the same level of hazard as Jungle Japes, I'd be very concerned having it tournament legal.



The fall through glitch isn't very common. It'd have to be, or at least easy to activate, for a ban to happen.

Jungle Japes isn't that different. The cars on PTAD don't randomly come swerving in atop the platforms giving a 1 second warning to an over-powered hazard. Why do you consider the place the cars can come when they can't be predicted to be on-stage? It's no safter to hang out in than it is to hang out in JJ's water. I'm not seeing how you can determine that the water is off-stage but the racetrack is on-stage; there is always a place you can go where the cars will never come when there's no warning, and for good players, that is the stage. To avoid getting killed by the cars, don't let your opponent grab you when they're near where the cars could come without being predicted and you're at 40+%; it's not unreasonable to ask players to do this. Also, I was of the idea that the klaptraps kill at any %. Is this untrue?


Is there a link to a fall-through glitch on Halberd? I wasn't aware of its existence, and a Youtube video just revealed non-glitches like Mystic Kenji BS and Wario's Bike getting stuck.

 

[MysticKenji]

There is no fall-through glitch on Halberd.
There is, however, missing Halberd's ledge and just dying from that.