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If SMI is going to be changed to be a bit less walkoff-y then I would suggest the top of the building where the Hind fight was in MGS1. It still has the same style as the original level too. Heck, the second part of the Hind fight shows Liquid destroying stuff on the roof, which means the destructible stage parts gimmick could still fit and make sense.
I never really was a fan of this stage. The Metal Gears in the background and the exclamation light were cool but I never liked playing on it.
Something that I'm concerned about is what's feasible for the team. Is it possible to change the way, the how, the when, and the where of the walls? Can the collision be changed?
I really like this idea. The universe of Metal Gear is huge, and the Project M team makes absolutely wonderful unique stages. Why not make another? The alt for it can be a fixed Shadow Moses Island, with everything to the outer sides of the walls completely removed, with the walls set not to recover after they've been destroyed. It'll still have that casual need to destroy the walls, while making that need more satisfying. Right now, the walls are kind of just there. They're fun to destroy, but not very rewarding.
The way walls are implemented in Shadow Moses Island is why I think some people hate them so much. But plenty of people have made good suggestions for how walls can work with Smash mechanics. Smacking the opponent into the wall should do a good chunk of damage to it going by the tradition of breakable walls in fighting games.
Hell, the thwomps on Bowser's Castle are essentially powerful falling walls that kill you instantly and people seem to love that stage. This is not nearly that extreme if done right.
I'd like to see that, but I don't think it's possible to do right now.
Now that 3.6f is out I'd like to talk about the new stage and the other two that got back.
Wario Land is quite cool. It doesn't only represent the series but also Wario with all the gold. I don't have any problems with the way the stage plays, but I think that the background could be a bit further away.
I like Rainbow Cruise and it's nice to see it back. Otherwise PM would lack scrolling stages. Still would like to see the Super Mario Bros. scrolling stage back, but its awful aesthetics kept me from loving it in Brawl.
And now's the time for Bridge of Eldin. Beautiful background. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING stage.
I put this stage in my 3.6b build, but just because it represents Twilight Princess very well and because I like the background, but the stage itself just couldn't be more boring. Flat and loooooooooooooooong stage with a silly hazard that makes a big part of the stage disappear for some time that completely breaks the game's flow.
If there's a stage I'd like to see reworked before anyone else, that's Bridge of Eldin.
I also think I already talked about it a while ago but whatever.
And now's the time for Bridge of Eldin. Beautiful background. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING stage.
I put this stage in my 3.6b build, but just because it represents Twilight Princess very well and because I like the background, but the stage itself just couldn't be more boring. Flat and loooooooooooooooong stage with a silly hazard that makes a big part of the stage disappear for some time that completely breaks the game's flow.
If there's a stage I'd like to see reworked before anyone else, that's Bridge of Eldin.
I also think I already talked about it a while ago but whatever.
I think all it needs are a few platforms, two on either side of the bridge, maybe. It's too horizontal in general.
I honestly don't mind the hazards, they've never seemed to ruin gameplay. Doesn't even affect it if there are only two players.
I like Rainbow Cruise and it's nice to see it back. Otherwise PM would lack scrolling stages. Still would like to see the Super Mario Bros. scrolling stage back, but its awful aesthetics kept me from loving it in Brawl.
The secret alts for Metal Cavern should be Mushroomy Kingdom. I loved those stages so much. PMDT should re skin the stages to make them look like their original Super Mario Bros selves. Then, maybe the PMDT could add Goombas and Koopas from SMB that move and are positioned the way they are in SMB. I think that would be amazing.
I think that Spear Pillars controller affecting mechanics are the best thing for the craziness of the stage.
Also, I am all for SMI keeping the walls but removing the walkoffs. Have no idea what could be added into the stage as I never played Metal Gear.
Rainbow Cruise is just one of those things. You never want to see it go and occasionally have fun with it.
Bridge of eldin is wonderful, in my opinion. It's similar but opposite of Bowsers, for just a tack on with nothing being lost by keeping it, it's awesome. I'd love to see most or all of the brawl stages return just because it's possible.
Wario Land is fantastic, period. It's the Wario stage he's always deserved. And finally there will be some new aesthetic for tourneys.
I'm so happy to have Wario Land in the build. I've been working on stages for the team for over a year, trying to make the best stages that nobody ever plays. With 3.6 I wanted to have a stage to play on in bracket without having to be cheeky and ask the opponent to gentlemans to bowsers castle or metal cavern haha.
I don't see any problem with making a neutral version of SMI and making the Brawl version the alt. I think having perhaps another neutral stage and utilizing the beautiful visuals of SMI would be astounding.
I find the new Wario Land stage to be incredibly boring, especially compared to the lively WarioWare. Absolutely still background with nothing really interesting in there, bland color scheme on the actual stage, and the music of WarioWare (Brawl's OST or the customized music I put onto mine) sounds super weird on there now and doesn't really fit.
Meanwhile I feel that that the overall color scheme of WarioWare, the simple yes seemingly always moving background made it pop-out a lot more and made the stage seem much more lively and just helped make it fun and fitted perfectly with the music (again both with Brawl OST or my own music I put on it) all served to make it a really fun feeling stages.
Yea... I'm not really happy with the Warioland change from WarioWare. :L
I'm so happy to have Wario Land in the build. I've been working on stages for the team for over a year, trying to make the best stages that nobody ever plays. With 3.6 I wanted to have a stage to play on in bracket without having to be cheeky and ask the opponent to gentlemans to bowsers castle or metal cavern haha.
Can I give you some feedback even though it's not our current stage of topic?
K. Good.
I'm glad you made a skin for this because a) it will really help distinguish for casuals and b) I like seeing original stages in tournaments. First time I looked around, I got upset there were no Mario Land II references until I looked a second time. Good on you. Before I go on to the next part, I'm really glad you made this stage and I enjoy it.
That said, I feel the stage looks empty and less lively compared to WarioWare. Maybe a bit more loot or utilizing Wario's Bike somehow would help spice it up. I love how Wario scribbled his mustache on the throne, but I wonder if the flags would look nicer with the same approach maybe with a patch poorly sewn in or something. And although I really like the wood plank textures, the sides of the platforms that face the player look incomplete. I think they platforms could benefit taking inspiration from the boundaries of that room in game. I've got a picture below so you can see what I mean.
From a super nitpicky angle, there are a few inconsistencies that I can't figure out why. To name a few the railing posts are straight unlike in game, there are less buttons on the cushion, and the textures aren't as detailed on the throne (though I suspect that's because of file size and lag issues).
Discussing this stage elsewhere, a lot of people say the stage looks empty and dull. Some suggestions included better quality loot (if that doesn't lag the stage) and possibly adding a few characters from the games moving around sort of like Bowser's Castle. The other common critique is the lighting looking strange, but I wouldn't know how to offer ideas towards that.
The last issue I hear is disliking it because "BLAH BLAH WARIO NEVER REDECORATED THE THRONE" but I also don't recall tornadoes on Hyrule Castle, Poke Floats, or Luigi's Mansion breaking and rebuilding itself so those opinions can be discarded.
Again, great work on this stage. I love the approach. I just wanted to offer a few thoughts.
I find the new Wario Land stage to be incredibly boring, especially compared to the lively WarioWare. Absolutely still background with nothing really interesting in there, bland color scheme on the actual stage, and the music of WarioWare (Brawl's OST or the customized music I put onto mine) sounds super weird on there now and doesn't really fit.
Meanwhile I feel that that the overall color scheme of WarioWare, the simple yes seemingly always moving background made it pop-out a lot more and made the stage seem much more lively and just helped make it fun and fitted perfectly with the music (again both with Brawl OST or my own music I put on it) all served to make it a really fun feeling stages.
Yea... I'm not really happy with the Warioland change from WarioWare. :L
Really? I always banned Warioware on principle because I felt it was the most aesthetically awful stage in the game. Without the microgames, it really just felt empty, bland, and boring to me.
Really? I always banned Warioware on principle because I felt it was the most aesthetically awful stage in the game. Without the microgames, it really just felt empty, bland, and boring to me.
I always found WarioWare to be a very nice and fun looking stage that managed to be really simple yet felt very lively and always popped out at me. It just felt like a fun and upbeat stage and I loved that.
Warioland just feels dull and empty and bland and out of place with the music.
If any characters get placed in the background, it absolutely has to be WL4's Princess Shokora in any of her forms (princess forms, shadow helper forms, cat, etc.) ABSOLUTELY
Alternatively Wario-Shokora skin for Wario can fill my void.
Wario Land does look really nice and I love the detail... but now that people mention it I kinda do get this feeling like it's just missing something. IDK, add something more to the background maybe?
There definitely should be some movement added to this stage, but it really doesn't have to be much. Maybe make the jewels sparkle, or add a spotlight effect similar to the one on Shadow Moses.
I can't think of a single stage that is small and doesn't incorporate either a large, detailed background to look at or some sort of movement. Wario Land kinda breaks that norm.
Dynamic is a better word for what I'm talking about; there's no dynamic. Maybe add those weird glowing machines from the Shake King boss fight?
Out of curiosity, will we be seeing modified versions of other stages in ways that would make them tournament viable?
Frigate Orpheon is the most obvious alteration. Perhaps stagnating the sliding platform at the bottom and dropping the flip. That would make it viable as well as something I would consider for tournaments.
The other I would like to see altered is Onett. Maybe dropping some of the lower platforms and the ground could make it a tolerable stage in a competitive environment.
Finally, Shadow Moses deserves to be playable, because it is such a cool stage. I envision a battle on the outside (the background shown in the original stage) with a pair of platforms on top of each other in the middle of the stage.
Hazardless Halberd please. And as I've said before I've always wanted to see a competitive Pictochat, we've never had a competitive transforming stage besides PS1 (and it sucked, good riddance), I'd love to see them try to make something good out of that.
Pretty unlikely. We already have plenty of competitive stages. If/when we do make another viable stage, it's going to be custom made rather than just edited from Brawl.
I do love the new stage, but I miss all the funky music we could put in wario ware (mirror b theme, salsaaa), and the custom 2 frame animations we could put in the back. AZ was working on a stage with Arizona flag colors, a cactus instead of a poted plant, and a dish being scrubbed in the back.
Wario land is great, it's too bad it's nearly on permanent ban status still because people don't want to play on a small stage
Hazardless WarioWare just felt soulless and empty, a shell of its former self. (Like Saffron City still is.)
Now it's its own thing and I feel perfectly comfortable playing on it now.
Hazardless Halberd please. And as I've said before I've always wanted to see a competitive Pictochat, we've never had a competitive transforming stage besides PS1 (and it sucked, good riddance), I'd love to see them try to make something good out of that.
I'd really rather see the team spend time on more original stages than stripping down existing ones. I understand the desire, but we have enough stages without hazards as is and Halberd was already nerfed.
Speaking of hazardless stages, the fog effect for Delfino was the perfect solution. Props stage team.
SMI has walkoffs, which I always hate. I have an idea of something to make of it, but since I missed the discussion I'll save the mock-up for later.
Wario Land is way, way smaller than any stage should ever be, especially one with such an otherwise incredibly fun and unique layout. It's a great disappointment that what could be such an outstanding starter is instead a shallow, polarizing auto-ban.
Cool that the Wario Land series finally gets a stage, though, even if the stage itself doesn't really pertain to the series in any way.
On the current discussion, I think the aesthetic of the stage is beautiful, but doesn't fit such a tiny stage. Maybe it should be far back like someone mentioned? I'd also appreciate a bit of animation in the background, it might be nice to have something on a balcony.
Pretty unlikely. We already have plenty of competitive stages. If/when we do make another viable stage, it's going to be custom made rather than just edited from Brawl.
That reminds me, since the only hazard the Project M team is capable of is spikey stuff, what if they made Pokémon like Scyther and Beedrill pop out of that room? They don't have to do anything big, just pop out, slash, then go back in, not too disruptive. The non-special alt could be the current version.
That reminds me, since the only hazard the Project M team is capable of is spikey stuff, what if they made Pokémon like Scyther and Beedrill pop out of that room? They don't have to do anything big, just pop out, slash, then go back in, not too disruptive. The non-special alt could be the current version.
I'd be down for anything really. I actually love this stage (for casuals) without hazards, but lacking them is a common complaint. I'd be willing to bet that we'd get PM unique pokemon popping out before they figure out how to recreate flamethrower/razor leaf/chansey.
The problem with pokemon popping out is a two part thing. One, hazards... two, sounds. Silent pokemon popping out is still sad. When we finally make breakthroughs in those fields then the pokemon will be unleashed.
The problem with pokemon popping out is a two part thing. One, hazards... two, sounds. Silent pokemon popping out is still sad. When we finally make breakthroughs in those fields then the pokemon will be unleashed.
I like how Project M's making their own aesthetics for the neutral version of stages. Also, pushing n64 versions of stages to z alt leaves more options for dynamic alts. Since stages are getting their own visual touch ups to signify whether they're legal or dynamic, could Theytah's Indigo league Stadium become the new neutral version and return brawl's transforming pokemon stadium 2 as the z alt?
One thing that I am concerned about on the Wario Land stage is the ledge blending with the background. I have not played enough to notice if that will be an issue, but I feel like (potentially depending on the TV) that the edge of the stage may need to be differentiated from the walls in the background (the grey and gold ones). There is a gold bar there that helps distinguish it, but I think it might need a little more such as lightening the closest walls (front of the stage) and/or darkening the other ones that lead to the abyss below or emphasizing the gold bar.
On another topic I think the PMDT should forget about that stage choice legality issue designed merely to prevent a few tourney goers from pouting. They should make them alts and if they must be discussed after the fact make rules as need be. Leaving them out is at the stakes of preventing many fans from playing stages they would like to have in PM. I think there inclusion will help strengthen the Brawl, Melee and Smash 64 fan base. They would give the different smash game players/veterans/casuals more things to be comfortable and at home with in PM.
I think Melee Final Destination's alt should be Brawl's Final Destination and the secret Z stage select should be Smash 64's FD. Same with Battle Field. I think the Brawl version should be adapted to Brawls and the Melee's version should be like melees. Then the secret Z select should be Smash 64's Battlefield. It would give more diverse fans joy. The ability to bring back multiple past stages is powerful and bringing as many back as we can from Brawl, Melee and Smash 64 would be awesome for all PM players. I think things like this would help prolong the games lifespan even. The little things count.
I think the only good place for a shadow moses alt would be where you fight the helicoptor (HIND-D? I think that's what it was called) or where you fistfight liquid at the end (that is to say, on the top of a goddamn metal gear if my memory serves). Big shell would look good but I'm not so sure how to make the background interesting without animating a character like fatman, or that horde of metal gears that attacks you in the end, overall it seems like a huge pain. MGS3 has literally no good high up fights, and jungle fights will look like the pikman stage. MGS4 probably has a few decent areas, notably the ending fight with liquid on that tower, but once again the background will be a huge challenge to make interesting and simple. Peacewalker has a ton of places that'd but its less popular so i'm not sure if PMDT would consider it worth it.
Could I see a picture of the new Wario Land stage? I want to know if 1. It replaces the Ashley Warioware stage which I have grown attached to a 2. If not what it does replace.
Could I see a picture of the new Wario Land stage? I want to know if 1. It replaces the Ashley Warioware stage which I have grown attached to a 2. If not what it does replace.
The old Warioware was the most aesthetically atrocious stage ever. The new Wario Land is a colossal improvement from the clashing blue/pink checkerboards with a hideous poorly-drawn pig face eternally vibrating in the background.
I'm so glad that we have Wario Land now because that stage is a really solid counter pick.
The old Warioware was the most aesthetically atrocious stage ever. The new Wario Land is a colossal improvement from the clashing blue/pink checkerboards with a hideous poorly-drawn pig face eternally vibrating in the background.
I'm so glad that we have Wario Land now because that stage is a really solid counter pick.
