Official Stage Discussion

[mimgrim]

I still like WarioWare better aesthetically. :<

 

[The Incinerator]

Personally I think that the new Wario Land stage far exceeds the aesthetic qualities of Wario Ware while having a unique feel not given off by other stages in Project M so far! Me and my buddies just spent an evening playing on it and I just gotta say the work put into it is very much appreciated, and unlike some have suggested I don't actually think the stage would need anything more. However, if the Project M team does want to tweak it in the end I'm good with that too cause for some reason they have this strange tendency of giving me things I never knew I wanted and they are always managing to improve things I didn't really think could be improved! Keep up the good work and thanks again for the new treat of a stage!

 

[Xermo]

It's so beautifully simplistic and well crafted that it makes me hate my inability to model anything besides geometric shapes.

 

[frankxthexbunny]

i agree with most other people that it's definitely missing something, probably something animated

 

[Comeback Kid]

Lighting for the entire background wall would make the stage look less empty.

This beautiful stage in the middle of these oppressive shadows is what bothers me about it.

 

[RomeDogg]

Wario Land looks legit and is fine in my opinion.

 

[RomeDogg]

Here is some past stage popularity info I collected to help you wonderful stage designers out. They were via voting with the ability to vote for as many stages as you would like. Here are the top 10 voted from each vote.

First List. The vote amount is to the right of each stage. Note: This vote did not include The SSE: Stages, Peach's Castle (Melee) or SSB64 Final Destination. This list has also been voted on for a longer period of time.

1. Great bay 31
2. Pokefloats 23
3. Kongo Jungle (Melee) 18
4. Mute City 13
5. Green Greens 12
6. Online Practice Stage (Brawl) 9
7. Mushroom Kingdom II (Melee) 9
8. Tutorial Stage (SSB64) 9
9. Mushroom Kingdom (SSB64) 9
10. Snag The Trophies Stage (Melee) 8

Second List as of 3.6. This vote is still in infancy and more people should vote on it to increase its accuracy. I will post a link to this one below. Anyway this is how that one has turned out so far.

1. Great Bay 8
2. Mute City 8
3.Poke Floats 6
4. Kongo Jungle (Melee) 6
5. Peach's Castle (Melee) 6
6. Final Destination (Smash64) 4
7. Online Practice Stage (Brawl) 3
8. Mushroom Kingdom II (Melee) 3
9. Flat Zone (Melee) 3
10. Brinstar Depths (Melee) 3
11. SSE: Bomb Factory Falcon Flyer/Meta Ridley Fight 3
- 11. was added since it tied with the previous 4 in the list.

More research is needed but here is a good starting point when deciding which stage/stages to bring back next when thinking of pleasing the PM community.

Also here is the voting thread please vote everyone,
http://smashboards.com/threads/more...ost-wanted-stages-not-in-pm-vote-here.411073/

 

[InfinityCollision]

I'd rather see what new things the PMDT might bring us, they've done a great job with new stages thus far.

On a somewhat related note... What are the chances we'll see a Skyloft remake at some point, if not an altered stage design as well? With Dracula's Castle gone it seems to be the only stage left that's kinda sketchy in terms of representation, seeing as Skyward Sword didn't exist when Brawl was released.

 

[RomeDogg]

They have done a great job, don't get me wrong. I love the new Wario Land skin. I didn't Like the old WarioWare look which caused me to pick the stage less often in the past. Also Delfino's Secret is so legit especially since it brings back the memories of playing the stage in Super Mario Sunshine. Also Bowser's Castle is way too sick.

Though the fact still remains, there are just a lot of past stages that are unique and missed badly.

I also still think stages that don't really have a non-returning alternative could be where PM makes some sick PM exclusive stages and could really shine. Stages like these ones.
-Shadow Moses Island
-Picto Chat
-Onnett
-Smashville
-Also if they could make a PM exclusive Flat Zone then Flat Zone 2 could be the alt L stage while Flat Zone 1 could be the secret Z Stage.

Thats like 5 spots they could squeeze some original content in without preventing certain past stages from returning during the process.

Some stage changes I would like to see are as follows too.
-A Jungle Japes without the Crocodile and Water hazards.
-A Castle Seige last form solo version for the secret Z stage select.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I mentioned this in the art thread, but is there any chance that Ashleyware could be made into a secret alt for Wario Land? I don't see why it couldn't be. Having hidden alts are cool, and I think they work particularly well for stages that function the same way, but are aesthetically different.

 

[Xermo]

Better yet, just make vWario Ware the hidden alt and give the peeps the superior Ashley Ware back.

 

[GFooChombey]

I mentioned this in the art thread, but is there any chance that Ashleyware could be made into a secret alt for Wario Land? I don't see why it couldn't be. Having hidden alts are cool, and I think they work particularly well for stages that function the same way, but are aesthetically different.

There is no reason not to have this. Both sides of the spectrum can have what they want.

Better yet, just make vWario Ware the hidden alt and give the peeps the superior Ashley Ware back.

That's a terrible idea. Casual players aren't going to know about zecret alts unless they're playing with someone seasoned.

 

[Xermo]

That's a terrible idea. Casual players aren't going to know about zecret alts unless they're playing with someone seasoned.

If you have the ability to access the project m website and download the game, you have the ability to read the changelog and note certain stages have Z-alts.

Besides, the odds that said casual players wouldn't be without a seasoned player if they're in possession of the game is pretty slim.

Besides besides, I wasn't even being that serious. Just bring Ashley Ware back

 

[Sandfall]

I mentioned this in the art thread, but is there any chance that Ashleyware could be made into a secret alt for Wario Land? I don't see why it couldn't be. Having hidden alts are cool, and I think they work particularly well for stages that function the same way, but are aesthetically different.

For now, we're limiting secret alts to the original 64 stages. This may change in the future though.

I'd rather see what new things the PMDT might bring us, they've done a great job with new stages thus far.

On a somewhat related note... What are the chances we'll see a Skyloft remake at some point, if not an altered stage design as well? With Dracula's Castle gone it seems to be the only stage left that's kinda sketchy in terms of representation, seeing as Skyward Sword didn't exist when Brawl was released.

Skyloft is already really similar to Castle Siege, so it probably won't get a similar redesign.

Besides, the odds that said casual players wouldn't be without a seasoned player if they're in possession of the game is pretty slim.

It's actually quite common. A lot of casual players try out the game for the new stages (mainly the 64 ones), returning characters (Mewtwo and Roy), and also improved movesets (Pokémon down-Bs, Solarbeam, etc).

Source: was one of those people long before I decided to start modding.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

For now, we're limiting secret alts to the original 64 stages. This may change in the future though.
.

At least it's something you may consider in the future. I think hidden alts have some good potential of basically being "alt costumes," but for stages. I could see some people having fun with different ideas. For example, Fourside could become Moonside, or it could be something simpler like changing time of day or something. You could also have 64 versions of Battlefield and FD.

 

[flintconfirmed]

Spoiler: off topic

By the way, though, if Fourside absolutely has to be in, I wish it would be somewhere else, because the Mother 3 music doesn't fit with it.

I would love a new Mother 3 stage that felt more like a happy zone rather than the end game madness.

Something that could make Wario Land feel more professional is if there were music suggestions to fit the stage.

I'm of the unpopular opinion that wario ware should just be abandoned though. I'd like to see PM eventually become completely different from Brawl when it comes to presenting it's stage list.

When does stage discussion change? I haven't noticed a schedule or anything.

 

[himemiya]

Spoiler: off topic

By the way, though, if Fourside absolutely has to be in, I wish it would be somewhere else, because the Mother 3 music doesn't fit with it.

I would love a new Mother 3 stage that felt more like a happy zone rather than the end game madness.

Something that could make Wario Land feel more professional is if there were music suggestions to fit the stage.

I'm of the unpopular opinion that wario ware should just be abandoned though. I'd like to see PM eventually become completely different from Brawl when it comes to presenting it's stage list.

When does stage discussion change? I haven't noticed a schedule or anything.

But I liked frozen ware though , its the only stage where club/edm/hard techno/trance and other rave/party music can fit in. I want to be able to play my tick inducing songs and fit at the sametime.

 

[flintconfirmed]

Llamajuice i believe, answered in reddit that they took the extra effort to keep the stage completely identical (it is off center very slightly) instead of changing it so that all the old stages could be put over it, so i appreciate that effort, it lets everyone be able to use their old track lists.

Edit : here it is, if you want the details http://reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/3h9ycx/wario_land_is_shifted_5_units_to_the_right/cu5mtdf

 

[Squints~.~]

I didn't see this mentioned yet but there was a change beyond the Wario Land skin that I could not figure out for a while. I really liked WarioWare but since haven't been able to get used to the new stage and I finally realized that the camera is super zoomed in now and follows the characters better. While normally I'd say this is great, for a small stage like Wario Land I think the camera should be backed up again to show everything. The zoomed in camera gives off a false impression that the stage is larger than it is. Could just be something to get used to since they didn't really change anything else, but did this throw anyone else off?

 

[Llama Juice]

I didn't see this mentioned yet but there was a change beyond the Wario Land skin that I could not figure out for a while. I really liked WarioWare but since haven't been able to get used to the new stage and I finally realized that the camera is super zoomed in now and follows the characters better. While normally I'd say this is great, for a small stage like Wario Land I think the camera should be backed up again to show everything. The zoomed in camera gives off a false impression that the stage is larger than it is. Could just be something to get used to since they didn't really change anything else, but did this throw anyone else off?

The camera shouldn't be different between Wario Land and AshleyWare. I just checked the files and couldn't see any differences between the camera's settings for gameplay.

I think the big difference is that when you're testing a stage, you're typically running around it by yourself. In that situation a camera will be way more zoomed in than if you were to have two players on the stage at the same time. I could be wrong though.

 

[Squints~.~]

The camera shouldn't be different between Wario Land and AshleyWare. I just checked the files and couldn't see any differences between the camera's settings for gameplay.

I think the big difference is that when you're testing a stage, you're typically running around it by yourself. In that situation a camera will be way more zoomed in than if you were to have two players on the stage at the same time. I could be wrong though.

You're right, I tried pulling up clips to compare but the WarioWare videos I was finding were from way earlier versions of P:M. My mistake, thanks for clearing this up though!

 

[Mc.Rad]

Lighting for the entire background wall would make the stage look less empty.

This beautiful stage in the middle of these oppressive shadows is what bothers me about it.

Yeah.. .if the stage got more lighting and more work in the background then I would play it more.

 

[Kneato]

My 2cents:

I think the new Wario Land stage looks great. It is definitely an improvement over the Original Wario Ware in that it gives off a feel that is unique from all other stages and is a better reflection of the character who calls it home.

I also don't think anything needs to be added or changed. The dimly lit throne room glittering in gold is a good representation of Wario's character and is reminiscent of the atmosphere of Wario World, one of the few times we got to see Wario in a 3D environment. The stage gives off the same feel as the back of the box art which I love.

 

[Nefnoj]

Something in regard to Wario Ware (alt for Wario Land, is that close enough?) that I was wondering: Is it feasible to make it so that the platforms, including the main one, stay during each microgame?

A long while ago my build glitchied, and that happened. I gave the small fall-through platforms some collision throughout each change, and found that it made the microgames a lot more fun. Recently, I was playing on it, but when the stage shifted from microgame to the main stage, I fell down into the infinite abyss of death.

My first draft of this post had way too many commas.


So this is a thing: I tried using Ivysaur's vine whip underneath Metal Cavern, and I kinda glitched and fell to my doom.

 

[Sandfall]

Hey everyone,

I apologize for the lack of updates. Life has been somewhat hectic lately and this sort of slipped off my radar. I'll make sure to update the discussions more frequently from now on.

Anyway, let's talk about a popular competitive stage: Green Hill Zone!

(also, feel free to discuss the alt Brawl version here as well)

 

[Xermo]

re-add the sonic characters in the background, please.

 

[mimgrim]

I have no complaints about GHZ really. Good enough looking stage, can fit a good variety of music, and has a good layout. I wouldn't be opposed, however, if the stage were to get a redesign in textures/look (not in layout), though, as long as I feel my music fits (like back in 3.02 or something there was this cool GHZ in BV that was something like Chemical Plant Zone and it was really nice and still fitted the same kind of music as GHZ).

 

[Nefnoj]

The Brawl version can super easily become a non walk-off on the left side. As a professional casual, it would be pretty neat if you did.

 

[Kneato]

..professional casual..

That's a thing?

EDIT:

..it would be pretty kneat if you did.

FTFY

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

The Brawl version can super easily become a non walk-off on the left side. As a professional casual, it would be pretty neat if you did.

I think I'm the only one in the world that actually like a few walk-off stages. No harm done if they're casual stages anyway. Either way, I feel they should keep the Brawl stages as is. Past stages should stay true to themselves as much as possible.

 

[Nefnoj]

I think I'm the only one in the world that actually like a few walk-off stages. No harm done if they're casual stages anyway. Either way, I feel they should keep the Brawl stages as is. Past stages should stay true to themselves as much as possible.

I think if it doesn't hurt gameplay, or change the definition of the stage, then there's no reason why not to, though that might just be me.
I don't horribly mind walk-offs, but unlike most stages where making a walk-off would look aesthetically painful, with Green Hill Zone, it would have a nice visual. There also aren't very many asymmetrical stages where one side's a walk-off and one side isn't, and those are my favourite.
What are people's thoughts on the breakable ground? I like it, but it always takes forever to destroy.

That's a thing?

I take having fun very seriously. The kneat reference went over my tiny head.

 

[Kneato]

I take having fun very seriously. The kneat reference went over my tiny head.

My handle is Kneato.

 

[Nefnoj]

My handle is Kneato.

And I am as unobservant or dumb as a brick.

 

[GFooChombey]

GHZ PM edition is cool. The platform does cool things and it's small.

vGHZ is another beast. Can't say I'm a big fan of the floor falling out, but there's no sense changing that stage since it's an alt.

This is my shortest comment in this thread.

 

[CND]

I think Green Hill Zone is a fine competitive stage, but I don't know about it visually. I do not really have a problem with it now, but when I first played Project M when I had far less appreciation for competitive stages, I thought GHZ was one of the least appealing stages. I think its competitive value has suppressed whatever really made me dislike about it back then. Still, comparatively, I don't think it visually lives up to the other Project M stages. I don't think it is a matter that calls for an extensive aesthetic overhaul it just lacks some of the interest the other stages have. Bowser's Castle, Warioland, Melee Battlefield, Distant Planet and the 64 remakes among others all have more fleshed out backgrounds that give the stages additional character and reward exploring with the pause camera. Meanwhile GHZ has the Sonic characters removed from the background and the stage does not seem to anticipate pause screen camera exploration since there are some assets kind of just hanging around on the sidelines. I don't think GHZ calls for changes, but I think it shows how much the PMDT has developed in its approach to stage design (actually for this reason it is kind of interesting to leave GHZ as is).

 

[Llama Juice]

GHZ was designed by Nintendo's artists with the camera being stuck within certain boundaries.... I can't really fault them for the assets off on the sides of the stage that you wouldn't ever see in VBrawl. With the way that I approach stage creation, I know that camera manipulation will happen, so I try my best to budget my stages so that I can still keep the backs on a lot of my assets so that when you spin around to the back of it you don't see a big mess. (Peach's Castle and to a lesser extent Metal Cavern comes to mind.)

This has trade offs, we allow the user to play with the camera and explore these worlds that we create, but we also have to sacrifice some polygons to be able to make the backs of things somewhat pretty. Wario Land and Bowser's Castle are both a sort of diorama style of a stage... where everything is created inside this small box area and it doesn't make sense for the viewer to really rotate the camera around very much anyhow.

As far as removing the characters from running around in the background of GHZ... I wasn't on the team when that happened, but it wouldn't surprise me if they caused a small bit of lag which is unacceptable on a competitive stage.

 

[CND]

GHZ was designed by Nintendo's artists with the camera being stuck within certain boundaries.... I can't really fault them for the assets off on the sides of the stage that you wouldn't ever see in VBrawl. With the way that I approach stage creation, I know that camera manipulation will happen, so I try my best to budget my stages so that I can still keep the backs on a lot of my assets so that when you spin around to the back of it you don't see a big mess. (Peach's Castle and to a lesser extent Metal Cavern comes to mind.)

This has trade offs, we allow the user to play with the camera and explore these worlds that we create, but we also have to sacrifice some polygons to be able to make the backs of things somewhat pretty. Wario Land and Bowser's Castle are both a sort of diorama style of a stage... where everything is created inside this small box area and it doesn't make sense for the viewer to really rotate the camera around very much anyhow.

As far as removing the characters from running around in the background of GHZ... I wasn't on the team when that happened, but it wouldn't surprise me if they caused a small bit of lag which is unacceptable on a competitive stage.

I don't mean to fault anyone, but I just mean to note that GHZ is not consistent with most of the other Project M stages in regards to their backgrounds and the exploration of it. I greatly enjoy the approach to stages that encourage that kind of exploration (as evidenced by my stage and character screenshot thread). The diorama stages you mentioned still encourage camera exploration with interesting backgrounds. I think it would be cool if GHZ got a little work with that kind of philosophy in mind, but it is completely functional as is.

 

[GFooChombey]

As far as removing the characters from running around in the background of GHZ... I wasn't on the team when that happened, but it wouldn't surprise me if they caused a small bit of lag which is unacceptable on a competitive stage.

That sounds like a perfectly reasonable reason to remove Knuckles from the stage.

 

[Llama Juice]

I think it would be cool if GHZ got a little work with that kind of philosophy in mind, but it is completely functional as is.

While I agree that it would be nice to have that work done... I feel like our time would be better spent creating entirely new worlds for you to explore.

 

[Nefnoj]

In terms of aesthetics, I personally think that both Green Hill Zones are perfect, if you guys were to redesign it, something as simple as what you did with Castle Siege would be pretty neat, like a sunset or night time Green Hill Zone.