Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[KrIsP!]

You forgot sss tier on par with AAA tier but better match ups against aaa tier.

 

[john!]

lol i can see it now

"zelda clearly belongs in A++ turbo tier instead of SS4 gogeta tier"

why not just have 1 tier per character, that way there's no argument

 

[Deleted member]

lol i can see it now

"zelda clearly belongs in A++ turbo tier instead of SS4 gogeta tier"

why not just have 1 tier per character, that way there's no argument

The point of tiers is to separate the characters into categories of relative goodness, and the gaps are defined by whatever makes the difference in those categories significant. So when we say "Marth, Peach, and Captain Falcon are in A tier", we're labeling how good they are, but also how they are not notably better than each other.

Hopefully this answers your question in a meaningful way.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I don't think he was serious

 

[Jethrotex]

I get what you're saying about the "SS" "S' stuff, however, it's more for the effect of other placings.

If you started at A, then Falcon would be in tier C and everyone would assume that means he's not a high tier character because the letter C has been instilled as something low in regards to grading.

Having characters in tiers SS and S helps the whole process because the lower tiers are noticeable. SS means amazing, S means really good, A means High tier, B means okay, but you're got getting into any prestigious universities, and C means community college.

It's just easier to add tiers to the top as opposed to pushing them to the bottom and starting with A.

You can just rewrite them as A++ if you think an "S" implies that the characters are broken.

 

[Internalyzed]

I always thought the point of having an S tier was to show that the difference between the characters in it and the characters in other tiers was significantly greater than the difference between that between any of the lower tiers. e.g. in Brawl Meta Knight's placement in S tier by himself owes to his dominance over the metagame, as in he's not just good, he's good. Melee probably doesn't need an S tier simply because at high levels of play, the highest tier doesn't completely dominate.

 

[john!]

I don't think he was serious

 

[Lovage]

why not just have 1 tier per character, that way there's no argument

this would work really well, except most characters in melee are "close enough" that i think it's really easy to rank them in groups.

i don't care if C- is the lowest tier and has 11 characters in it, if that's the most accurate representation of the game then so be it

 

[Deleted member]

even if you're not serious, someone else might have sincere interest. at the very least, we still have forum lurkers.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Modified Bones0 inspired tier list for modest and dainty women


SS+. Falco, Fox, Sheik
SS. Jiggs, Peach, Marth
S+. ICs, Falcon, Dr. Mario
S. Pikachu, Samus, Ganon, Luigi, Mario
S-. DK, Link, Y.Link, Yoshi
S--. Zelda, Mewtwo, Roy, G&W
A+. Ness, Pichu, Kirby, Bowser


Now no character is bad. c:

 

[Mahone]

but fox/falco/sheik aren't THAT much better than jiggs/marth

why do they get an S?

unless the point is that they ARE that much better

 

[Kink-Link5]

Alternative 2007 nonsense tier list



Top: Falco, ...
Very High:
High:
Mid:
Low:
Very Low:
Bottom: ..., Bowser

 

[Bones0]

I'd be okay with Top, Mid, Bottom, etc.

 

[Fletch]

Modified Bones0 inspired tier list for modest and dainty women


SS+. Falco, Fox, Sheik
SS. Jiggs, Peach, Marth
S+. ICs, Falcon, Dr. Mario
S. Pikachu, Samus, Ganon, Luigi, Mario
S-. DK, Link, Y.Link, Yoshi
S--. Zelda, Mewtwo, Roy, G&W
A+. Ness, Pichu, Kirby, Bowser


Now no character is bad. c:

Man, Melee is really OP.

 

[KirbyKaze]

What is your reasons for Yoshi being so low?

Because this is an NTSC list.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I like how KK said doc is overrated and then procedes to place him in the exact same spot on his tier list as the current one

You must have missed the hundred posts or so of discussion over whether he should be above, tied with, or in the same tier group as Falcon and ICs.

And that this tier list is over 2 years old and doesn't necessarily reflect new opinions that may have come up within the last year or so. Which, if I were planning a current tier list, I should probably be framing my response to.

You also must have missed the part where I fused Pikachu, Doc, Luigi, Ganon, and co. into one tier because I don't feel there's a significant power difference between them as far as using them competitively goes. But the current tier list has Doc, Ganon, and Samus above the rat and co. because it feels they're marked better.

edit: double post but idgaf

 

[odinNJ]

I'd be okay with Top, Mid, Bottom, etc.

yeah but then its harder for people to john about how bad their char is

 

[shadrach kabango]

the reality is, if you don't main falco at this point you're probably wasting your time.

qft .

 

[Gea]

yeah but then its harder for people to john about how bad their char is

Tiers don't exist, you just have to believe in your character and play harder.

 

[Xyzz]

Can I also believe in the heart of the (spell)cards?

MAAAASTTAAAAA SPAAAAARK!

 

[JPOBS]

the 2013 tierlist metagame: evolved from discussing the character placement, to discussing the tier names.

edit: free unknown

 

[Kink-Link5]

Guys let's talk about Luigi > Ganon now.

Can I also believe in the heart of the (spell)cards?

MAAAASTTAAAAA SPAAAAARK!

You know the rule about templates like that.

 

[Xyzz]

You overestimate me; I don't really know what you're referring to

 

[Pink Reaper]

Templates like that are forbidden!

 

[The Star King]

I get the reference, IDK how that logically follows Xyzz's post though

 

[Kyor]

C.Falcon being 7 just bothers me for some reason =/

 

[MountainGoat]

Here's my list.

S: Fox, Falco
- The spacies. They're good. Have a lot of matchups where they completely destroy and none where they can't figure out at least some advantage.

A: Sheik, Jiggs, Peach
- Second group of common tournament winners and top performers. Step below the spacies as matchups are less consistent or individual character limitations but still better than most characters.

B: Marth, Icies, C. Falcon,
Usually can't manage to win a tournament but deep threats with a lot of advantages and power. Suffer from some marked weaknesses or strangeness.

C: Doc, Pika, Ganon, Samus, Luigi, Mario
The "pretty good" but limited or easily abuseable weakness tier. Pika places so high due to what I think is his great potential and options.

D: DK, Yoshi, Link, Y.Link
Almost put Yoshi ahead of DK. Think DK is better now but Yoshi looks like it has a decent amount of room for growth-- not so sure about DK. Link ahead of Y. Link because Y.Link seems more situational.

F: Zelda, Mewtwo, Roy, Ness
Honestly don't know the low tiers too well but these are just my general impressions based off playing the characters or against them. Also based on reading other people's tier lists.

F-: G&W, Bowser, Kirby, Pichu

It's all pretty misinformed I'm sure, especially with the low tiers but it's based on my current synthesis of what I've read, seen and experienced.

 

[Fletch]

Here's my list.

S: Fox, Falco
- The spacies. They're good. Have a lot of matchups where they completely destroy and none where they can't figure out at least some advantage.

A: Sheik, Jiggs, Peach
- Second group of common tournament winners and top performers. Step below the spacies as matchups are less consistent or individual character limitations but still better than most characters.

B: Marth, Icies, C. Falcon,
Usually can't manage to win a tournament but deep threats with a lot of advantages and power. Suffer from some marked weaknesses or strangeness.

C: Doc, Pika, Ganon, Samus, Luigi, Mario
The "pretty good" but limited or easily abuseable weakness tier. Pika places so high due to what I think is his great potential and options.

D: DK, Yoshi, Link, Y.Link
Almost put Yoshi ahead of DK. Think DK is better now but Yoshi looks like it has a decent amount of room for growth-- not so sure about DK. Link ahead of Y. Link because Y.Link seems more situational.

F: Zelda, Mewtwo, Roy, Ness
Honestly don't know the low tiers too well but these are just my general impressions based off playing the characters or against them. Also based on reading other people's tier lists.

F-: G&W, Bowser, Kirby, Pichu

It's all pretty misinformed I'm sure, especially with the low tiers but it's based on my current synthesis of what I've read, seen and experienced.

I'd say G&W needs to be tiered with F at worst, and Marth needs to be up a tier. Rest seems legit.

 

[FrootLoop]

Y.Link seems more situational.

You say that because he has actually been used in a situation, right?

 

[MaskedMarth]

Hahahaha

Just wait till Leffen pulls out Yoshi when Hbox travels to Europe.

Top level Smash is too "small" for us to see most "situations".

 

[MountainGoat]

I'd say G&W needs to be tiered with F at worst, and Marth needs to be up a tier. Rest seems legit.

Now that I think about it I agree with you about G&W. The bottom two tiers is definitely what I'm the least certain about. It sort of feels like if G&W doesn't belong in that bottom tier then Bowser doesn't either.

Marth was a character that I struggled with placing. I know there are a lot of good marths but it seems like Marth has some trouble finishing characters off in certain situations and just doesn't have the power or options that the very top characters have. Ill keep him there for now but I'm open to discussion or course.

You say that because he has actually been used in a situation, right?

Haha touché. However I still think that Link is an overall more viable character to main even if Y. Link has some counter pick potential. Neither one is that viable of a character at the top but if a top link player and a top Y. Link player entered a tournament I'd tend to give the Link player the better chance for getting further.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Docs overrated. Ganon also needs to drop a bit. I feel people who lose to Ganon(myself included) just aren't playing smart or the way they should be. Then again, if this is continually done on a regular basis then I guess that would technically cement his current placing. Hmm never thought of it that way actually.

 

[Divinokage]

Look at it this way.. why do I still have the element of surprise 6 years after I started going to the states? It means I'm doing something right, it's not just because my opponents are failing left and right. lol. What if I'm forcing them to fail like I want them to do? Is that not possible?

I cant really believe that after all this time no one has done their proper research on the matchup.. if that were true then no one would have learned anything.

 

[KrIsP!]

I remember someone saying Kage's ganon isn't good, he just makes you play dumb and run into his fist somehow. So maybe it is you, will of the warrior and all that jazz.

 

[Divinokage]

Maybe.. but it's hard to tell the difference honestly. =P

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Kage's Ganon is good precisely because he makes you play dumb and run into his fist.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Look at it this way.. why do I still have the element of surprise 6 years after I started going to the states? It means I'm doing something right, it's not just because my opponents are failing left and right. lol. What if I'm forcing them to fail like I want them to do? Is that not possible?

I cant really believe that after all this time no one has done their proper research on the matchup.. if that were true then no one would have learned anything.

I see it now

 

[Pink Reaper]

Look at it this way.. why do I still have the element of surprise 6 years after I started going to the states? It means I'm doing something right, it's not just because my opponents are failing left and right. lol. What if I'm forcing them to fail like I want them to do? Is that not possible?

I cant really believe that after all this time no one has done their proper research on the matchup.. if that were true then no one would have learned anything.

Kage, the entire up tier of players is made of people who win despite literally refusing to play match ups right. It's the entire reason people boo when Hbox/Armada happens. Of the upper echelons of players, the ones who purposefully play match ups correctly are probably like, You(and even you outright refuse to CG generally) M2K, PP, Armada, Hbox and Axe. Very rarely do high level players play match ups correctly, but when 2 people play against each other incorrectly it generally resets advantages to 0 and you end up with a legit looking match-up.

 

[Xyzz]

Doesn't Axe pretty much define the entire Shock rat metagame, essentially giving us the idea how the match-ups should be played like? (And he obviously plays like himself? :D)
He seems to love techskill enough that I'd guess he sometimes goes for unneeded flashyness while having simpler options that would work out just as well or even better. Not that I'd complain (wait, maybe it's all psychological warfare: "Hey, look. Not only can I beat you using a low tier... I can even look super amazing while doing so" :D)

 

[knightpraetor]

ganon deserves his spot; i think his vs sheik is spotty, and i think fox/falco kind of wreck him, but he seems fine against marth falcon and even doesn't seem that bad vs peach (though i'm unsure of that last one). I don't see why everyone thinks ganon is so bad. Yeah, it's hard to play someone when you have to capitalize fully each time you send them offstage. But i feel the same way when playing marth vs fox. It's definitely doable. Also, when you watch non-kage ganons, you spend the entire 4min just thinking about how many of their actions were obviously wrong. Yes, I'm saying how good ganon is as a char should be judged entirely by kage's play because he is the only one playing the char correctly, though I do remember some decent vids of a ganon vs falco several years ago against pp that seemed decent, though kage could probably judge the ganon's relative skill level better

One thing I have to ask myself though, if sheik is so good against so many of the chars and often the trouble matchup for non top 6 chars is sheik, then why aren't there any sheiks? Is sheik vs falco and sheik vs fox that bad? or is getting good with sheik actually secretly one of the most difficult things to do?

or do people just hate sheik? this runs through my head a lot. There really should be more sheik players. it's really weird how few exist if sheik vs fox is even like m2k says and sheik vs falco is even like KK says and sheik is an easy char with autocombos like everyone else says. Someone has to be wrong