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Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

Discussion in 'Melee Discussion' started by Slhoka, Dec 31, 2010.

  1. Slhoka

    Slhoka Smash Lord

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    A few months ago, a new tier list was released for the NTSC version of Melee. However, this tier list was created a bit hastily, and a significant part -not to say the majority- of the Back Room Members did not agree with it. Therefore, a new project was launched in order to create a new tier list which could be officially endorsed by the MBR.

    Reminder : What a Tier List is

    This new tier list was created according to this definition :


    The Method

    Before the actual creation of this list, most of the debates regarding the various matchups had already happened, thanks to the making of the previous list a few monthes ago as well as the arguments following its release and questioning its validity. For this reason, we decided to use a very simple method already used for the current PAL tier list :

    1. Every Back Room member was invited to cast his or her vote, in the form of a character ranking from the best to the worse.
      Note : Since we found understandable that some people are not knowledgeable in low tier matchups, we allowed the voters not to give a full list if they prefered doing so. Separating the characters into tiers wasn't necessary either.
    2. We gathered all the votes to create an average ranking.
    3. We set the tier separations according to the gaps between characters' average rankings, with some ajustments, for instance to avoid having too many tiers when it was possible.

    The Voters

    Because the Melee Back Room has a significant amount of tournament organizers or players who are not experienced with Melee's NTSC version, we decided not to make the vote mandatory. In the end, 39 members cast their votes, 33 of those votes being complete lists. Here is a list of the voters :

    The List

    S: Fox, Falco, Jigglypuff, Sheik
    A: Marth, Peach, Captain Falcon
    B: Ice Climbers
    C: Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Samus
    D: Pikachu, Mario, Luigi, Donkey Kong
    E: Link, Young Link
    F: Zelda, Roy, Mewtwo, Yoshi, Mr. Game & Watch
    G: Ness, Bowser, Kirby, Pichu

    Table representation

    [​IMG]

    Pichu and Kirby are tied for last place, but since Kirby got an higher standard deviation, we decided to rank him above Pichu.

    Graphical representation (click for a bigger image)

    [​IMG]

    Additional details

    You can find additional details here : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10722276/Smash/Publications/NTSC_tier_list_details_all_files.zip

    You can find :
    • Individual votes
    • Lists by region
    • Lists by main character
    • Various statistics

    These are available in .pdf, .xls (Microsoft Office), .numbers (iWork) and .ods (Open Office). However, I advise you to use the .pdf file, or the .numbers one : the original file was made using iWork and the conversion to .xls and .ods files removes most practical features.

    Thanks

    I'd like to thank all the Melee Back Room members who took part in this project, especially Marc, who kept pushing us during the making of this tier list, and Tero, who laid the fundations for this project and made his best to encourage the matchup debates.
  2. Lovage

    Lovage Smash Hero

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  3. The Good Doctor

    The Good Doctor Smash Champion

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    I like this list
    =D
  4. Beat!

    Beat! Smash Master

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    Finally.
    And I agree with it 100%.
  5. metalreflectslime

    metalreflectslime Chemistry PhD Programs?

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  6. V3ctorMan

    V3ctorMan Smash Champion

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    At least Yoshi's not "negligible" Yay.... :) seems pretty neat :)
  7. DtJ Teczero

    DtJ Teczero Phase Retrieval

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    lol we have an ice climber tier.

    *sticks*

    I'm likin the list btw :)
  8. X1-12

    X1-12 Smash Champion

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    oooh fancy
  9. The Good Doctor

    The Good Doctor Smash Champion

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    The two big differences I see from the last list is Doctor Mario and YLink's placements are a lot higher.
    That's all I really see, but I like how (S) and (G) are ordered.

    I still think Kaostar has brainwashed everyone about Mewtwo, I feel he deserves a lower spot.
  10. Tero.

    Tero. Smash Champion

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    Ice Climbers don't have 8.0
    screw you Back Room!
  11. Doc King

    Doc King Smash Lord

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    Pretty good list, I like how Doc is now above Ganon and Samus. :)
  12. Winston

    Winston Smash Master

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    The thing that sticks out most on this list is Mewtwo being lower than Roy. Isn't it based on "recent, relevant tournament results"?

    Mario over Luigi is also a bit sketchy if the basis of that is Mango's Mario.
  13. VodkaHaze

    VodkaHaze Smash Journeyman

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    I'm glad Kirby went up one stage, he doesn't deserve to be dead last. I'm actually quite amazed how far Marth dropped. I thought he would be 3. Oh well then.
  14. The Star King

    The Star King Smash Hero

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    The only reason Mario lacks representation is because Doc is a very similar, but better alternative. I think that if Doc didn't exist, Mario would have better results than Luigi.

    Lol @ Roy being above Mewtwo. Other than that, I like this list.
  15. puu

    puu Smash Debater

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    Great list, I like how everything is explained in the OP as to how it's made, it makes it much more clear.
  16. Rostigalen

    Rostigalen Smash Journeyman

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    Decent list. Roy above M2 is very odd, and Doc is absolutely not better than Ganondorf and most probably worse than Samus, and I think GaW deserves a slightly higher spot. I'm willing to move Roy beneath M2, GaW and Yoshi, in fact, but other than that, things seem good.

    Edit: DK seems to be a tier too high? Shouldn't he top the E tier instead of being bottom D?
  17. CloneHat

    CloneHat Smash Champion

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    I was going to complain about Pika jumping up so fast, but then I read the "Reminder".

    Thanks for the explanations this time, I hope they'll stave of a lot of potential arguments.
  18. TheGoat

    TheGoat Smash Ace

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    somewhere....ken is crying....
  19. Nø Ca$h

    Nø Ca$h Smash Champion

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    perfect. doc is where he rightfully should be
  20. llamapaste

    llamapaste Smash Journeyman

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    Love how Falco is above Jiggs and Sheik is in top tier. So glad Peach is above Falcon as well.
  21. The Good Doctor

    The Good Doctor Smash Champion

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    It makes me a top tier ***** again...
    Let the johns begin!
  22. hungrybox

    hungrybox Smash Legend

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    ggs

    here come complaints

    IGNORE THEM ALL
  23. Fernandez

    Fernandez Smash Journeyman

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    mario is better then luigi?
  24. Roneblaster

    Roneblaster Smash Hero

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    edit.

    i cant read


    pretty solid though, i think luigi is best mario bro. but only half seriously.
  25. Fletch

    Fletch Smash Master

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    Thought Falco would be a lot closer to usurping Fox's spot at #1, but I guess Fox still has better matchups overall. Great list, good work guys.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention surprised Marth dropped that low, maybe 5th spot was fine but thought he would maintain top tier.
  26. Roneblaster

    Roneblaster Smash Hero

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    mango does not approve of this tier list.
  27. King Funk

    King Funk Int. Croc. Alligator

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    Oh cool. Good stuff guys.
  28. Rappster

    Rappster Smash Ace

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    This is actually a really nice list.
    I still don't see how Dk does better than link, but i'll roll with it
  29. Tamoo

    Tamoo Smash Master

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    Well, the most important thing is sorted, kirby is indeed better than pichu, if only alphabetically.

    Oh and agree with the whole list pretty much
  30. hotdogturtle

    hotdogturtle Smash Master

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    Never thought I'd see Marth at #5 o_O
  31. Divinokage

    Divinokage Smash Legend

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    I personally disagree since there's more evidence of Ganon and Samus doing much better on average in local tournament or even large tournaments than Docs.
  32. KenniSpam!

    KenniSpam! Smash Master

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    y'all jiggers posting in a puff thread
  33. Doc King

    Doc King Smash Lord

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    You usually don't see much Ganon's or Samus's in tourney play. Neither Doc but the ppl who play Doc do really well like Shroomed, OTG, Waffles, etc. Also Ganon is really easy to edge guard and Samus moves are somewhat slow and she doesn't combo as well.
  34. Mahone

    Mahone Smash Champion

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    dk and roy seem too high, but besides that, good list
  35. Violence

    Violence Smash Lord

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    You really are retarded.

    ROM3 Bracket:

    Ganons that I know about: RockCrock, 13th place, Kage, 17th place.

    Samuses that I know about: HugS, 9th place, Darrell, 17th place, HugQ, 33rd place.

    Docs that I know about: HomeMadeWaffles, 17th place.

    DGDTJ Bracket:

    Ganons: Mr Ganondorf, 25th place.

    Samuses: HugS, 9th place, Darrell, 25th place, Violence, 33rd place.

    Docs: Shroomed, 13th place, HomeMadeWaffles, 17th place.

    Apex, PoE3, etc.

    Docs don't outplace both Samuses and Ganons, nor do they place in top 10 consistently.

    If you're just going to state two big statements about Samus and Ganon(btw, Samus's moves are pretty fast) and use that to justify why they're worse than Doc, then you really are just making yourself look stupid.

    Personally, I don't agree that Ganon and Samus should be below Doc, but I can respect the fact that the BRoomers put actual thought into the decision, unlike you.
  36. Dark Hart

    Dark Hart Rejected by Azua

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    yea... whatever lol
  37. GCommander

    GCommander Smash Cadet

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    LOL Mewtwo and Pikachu went up 4 spots.
  38. Violence

    Violence Smash Lord

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    Good ****, AZ, advancing the metagame.
  39. The Good Doctor

    The Good Doctor Smash Champion

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    Arizona is crazy...
    I'm calling you out Vector!
    Yoshi better be climbing high soon!
  40. zeldasmash

    zeldasmash Smash Apprentice

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    Excluding the decrease of Mewtwo and Samus, very good tier list.

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