Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Tofu Beast]

I main Diddy, but I believe that Donkey is higher. He's VERY powerful for his speed and isn't that hard to use. Diddy is a lot harder to use and win with than DK.

He also has good matchups against the top characters, such as snake.

As stated by Ripple in the DK matchup Guide -

Snake is another one of those campy characters that really annoy DK. Fortunatly for us Snake players can not really spam moves to keep DK from approaching except for maybe the grenade toss but with enough practice you should be able to catch them and return them. In this match you need to pull off more grabs than usual because if you attack and they power shield then BOOM! 20% with AAA or F-tilt. Grabbing is effective because of two different reasons in this match-up. The first one being that Snake's aerials have a tremendous amount of lag upon landing if you get them to use aerials. It isn't very hard to punish a snake that has missed you using an aerial but if you do get hit expect at least 15%. The second reason is that snake is heavy and falls at a decent speed making him able to be juggled easily. CARGO U-TOSS TO UAIR IS STILL WORKS! if they don't dodge it it does some nice damage. I'm guessing that snake player's would rather dodge dodge through the uair rather than trade hits if your low-mid% because it would send them back into the air which is DK territory and you not to far away. As for spacing in this match it's probably best for the down-b or bair. since they will not be jumping too much it makes the down-b good and since you can short hop bair and jump away before they can do anything it also makes the bair very good for spacing. Against the mines(down smash) and the C4(down-b) the best way to avoid being hit by them is just focusing on where it is planted or dropped and keep that place in your head. repeat it out loud if you have to. (your down-b will trigger a mine to go off and C4 will explode after a minute or so also)When they are recovering, if you can, grab them and throw them off as they will not be able to recover again. If they recover from beyond your grab then a well place dair or fair can stop the cypher early(around 40% but you must hit only the cypher). DK needs space when he is above 100% because a non diminished AAA or F-tilt kills DK super early.

 

[Mike_Echoes]

When did DDD get back to the Top Spot of High? Last time I checked here he was Upper Mid just around Wolf and Co.

 

[gantrain05]

i honestly don't think shiek is so bad to be that low on the tier list. i mean yeah she got alot of nerfs from melee, but she got many buffs too, mainly her smashes. but all in all shiek is just played differently in brawl than she was in melee, she is def. high mid imo.

 

[Pieisthebest]

i think this may be the best possible tier list so far, or the one i've agreed with the most. I think if anythin you gave a little>< to much credit to GW , but as a big GW fan, i'm all about that, i likke DDD being up there too, , i def think that DDD deserves the number one slot on the high tier list, and i like wario's placmennt
edit, where's pit? i would but him on upper/upper mid tier

Thanks alot :3
Also XD I cant beileve I forgot pit, I knew I was missing someone.
So I changed a couple of things, I might have completly screwed it up though XD

Top Tier:

Snake
MetaKnight
DDD
G&W
ROB

High Tier:

Marth
Wario
Falco
Pikachu
Zelda
Toon Link
DK

Upper-Mid Tier:

Wolf
Pit
IC
Diddy
Fox
ZSS
Kirby
Lucario
Luigi

Lower-Mid Tier:

Mario
Peach
Pokemon Trainer
Ness
Lucas
Bowser
Sheik
Sonic
Yoshi

Low Tier:

Ike
Jiggs
Link
Samus

Bottom tier:

Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

 

[gantrain05]

what? now ROB and DDD are top tier? oh man this is depressing. i can MAYBE see DDD just cuz his gay infinite capabilities, but ROB? does he have some cheap broken tech that i don't know about or somethin. yeah i know he's an all right character but top tier?

 

[Pieisthebest]

what? now ROB and DDD are top tier? oh man this is depressing. i can MAYBE see DDD just cuz his gay infinite capabilities, but ROB? does he have some cheap broken tech that i don't know about or somethin. yeah i know he's an all right character but top tier?

Spot dodge into Dsmash is as broken as it gets :u

Also LOL I completley ruined it

 

[Kirby Magatsu]

Oh, some people post your thread without played against with all chars (good chars), if you played with a great Kirby, he will up in the majority tiers.,

 

[DanGR]

Tier list

where's...Olimar?

 

[Tofu Beast]

yeah.......piesisthebest- there's no olimar

 

[Veng]

Why is lucas low mid tier and not upper mid tier?

Come on, thats a joke.

 

[Pieisthebest]

yeah.......piesisthebest- there's no olimar

This is my really outdated list Tofu >________>

If you want to see the most recent one, go to AiB, I have it corrected there

 

[Veng]

My List


Top Tier:

Snake ( ONLY BECAUSE OF TOURNEY RESULTS: IMO high tier )
MetaKnight ( Tourney results again.. I dont see how hes that great, high tier otherwise )


High Tier:

Marth
Wario
Falco
Pikachu
Zelda
Toon Link
DK
DDD
ROB
G&W

Upper-Mid Tier:
Wolf
Lucas
Pit
Ike
ZSS
Kirby
Lucario
Luigi
Mario

Lower-Mid Tier:
IC
Peach
Pokemon Trainer
Ness
Diddy
Sheik
Sonic
Fox
Olimar

Low Tier:
Bowser
Yoshi
Jiggs
Link
Samus
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

 

[ShadowLink84]

I'm extremely amused that you took me seriously.

LOL nah I didn't take you seriously.
I was stating it though so in case anyone agreed with you.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

G&W is far too low.
Shame on you.

 

[ShadowLink84]

what? now ROB and DDD are top tier? oh man this is depressing. i can MAYBE see DDD just cuz his gay infinite capabilities,

He only has infinite on DK, the other 4 get CG'ed past 100% but can break free at a certain percent.
IC's are the only ones with a true infinite grab on everyone/

 

[Sh1n0b1]

my List


High Tier:

Marth
Wario
Falco
Pikachu
Zelda
Toon Link
Dk
Ddd
Rob
g&w

W...t...f...?

 

[Veng]

Show me a vid on why GW should be top.

 

[Veng]

GW low? why is LUcas so low then.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

There is no video why one character should be top. I could link you to a video of Snake getting two stocked by Olimar, but that means little about Snake's placement at this point.

G&W is amazing.
He has pretty much THE best moveset,
no really bad matchups,
a projectile deterrent,
a wonderful recovery,
plentiful of killing options,
multihitting attacks,
turtle approaching,
Uair stalling,
aerial maneuverability,
etc etc etc

He has so much going for him that he's a very serious contender for Top tier.
The one thing that isnt the greatest is his tourney record, where he's like in 6th.
Which is still amazing.

 

[Izzhov]

Olimar is too low in that first list and not even on that second one.
EDIT: Also I hate it when someone says a character has no bad match ups. EVERYONE has at least one bad match up.
Game and Watch's bad match-ups are Marth and Toon Link.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I didnt say that, silly buns.
I said he had no really bad matchups.
Marth and Toon Link are still VERY even with G&W.
Someone like Snake has obvious bad matchups like Pikachu.
Metaknight has Snake.

But G&W is mostly a playstyle thing. Some say Olimar or DK, but many disagree.
G&W is quite similar to MK with his matchups.
He's able to fit into so many situations, leaving no room for characters to "counter" him.

 

[Veng]

People dont realize that using a low tier character doesnt mean that your going to be bad.

I know hella good marios and lucas's and a **** load of ****ty MK's

 

[Browny]

when did anyone say that? everyone knows it, bandwagon effect

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

People dont realize that using a low tier character doesnt mean that your going to be bad.

I know hella good marios and lucas's and a **** load of ****ty MK's

Of course not, but really it limits what you can do if you're planning to go the distance in the tournament scene.

Not to say that said limits can't be broken, but you cannot deny a character like Lucas has a higher ceiling than Snake and Metaknight.

 

[SaxDude93]

My List

No. Wrong things.

Ike
Olimar
Wario
G&W
R.O.B.
Other

 

[Veng]

HOW IN THE HELL IS GW TOP?

btw its not possible to get better then a character your already good with.. ive tried.. MANY TImes.. and i always end up back at lucas.. ****it i wanna learn MK but i always spam.. either him or Rob because i like his projectiles

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

HOW IN THE HELL IS GW TOP?

btw its not possible to get better then a character your already good with.. ive tried.. MANY TImes.. and i always end up back at lucas.. ****it i wanna learn MK but i always spam.. either him or Rob because i like his projectiles

Short list of Pros from SFR

- Fast, Disjointed hitboxes with good priority and power.

- Bucket counters energy projectile spammers. (95% of all projectiles are energy) (high ranked toon link and snake have great projectiles which are all completely physical... the split is actually probably closer to 50/50) (however, all projectiles except nikita can be blocked in some way by G&W)

- Fantastic air game, mainly due to afformentioned disjointed hitboxes and priority.

- Great recovery

- Nice range

-his projectile might not be spammable, but he still has one. <- Plus, isn't the distance random? You could in theory spam for a short while. And, the pan can hurt as well.

-Frame By Frame movement can make him unpredicatable (Smashes seem to come out of nowhere)

-low percent kills (Lower than a lot of characters, I have seen the flame kill at around 80 to 100 percent on heavier characters. Watch Overswarm vs NOJ)

- In my experience, despite his light weight, he lives for quite a while. <because he can DI most things to a diagonal corner, which is why he has worse matchups against chars with good kills off the top of the screen) Doesn't stop him from being a good matchup against Zelda.

-Small Target

 

[ipreferpi]

...?
I thought Dedede's down throw had a set amount of knockback.

 

[Browny]

dont forget to add, possibly the strongest overall KO moves in the game.

only DK rivals G&W's smash attacks. even ikes dsmash and usmash are weaker than G&W... nah thats not broken /sarcasm

 

[JasonLovesKelsey]

TIERS R 4 QUEERS

There, now you know my opinion on the matter.

 

[Veng]

Im not a smash pro but whats a disjointed hitbox..

I guess i might aswell say this too since you guys seem like you know everything:

Ive been playing as Lucas since it came out, but hes not that great and easily countered and hes got 1 projectile thats not that great.

I tried Meta Knight, but my friend said I just ended up spamming and not trying to combo, Id like to try GW and ROB, but first I need some help.

Out of MK, ROB, GW - which would you think be the best for me after a Lucas playing style? I mean I dont wanna just go because its high tier characters but, I forgot his name, KDJ? No, um, well some one in melee used Bowser, and they werent that great, because of that, but ( i heard ) they own in Brawl because of the character change. (Said from PCChris in a video on MLG.com )

So I wanna switch too one of those 3, not only becasue of high tier but, I can say for a fact owning people with GW would be funny, because a lot of first timers are gonna say he sucks ( Cough brian hegge ) and I like Rob because of MKDS. ANd I threw MK in because hes got a sword and it might be a different style..


And the character, How do you practice? I play all day and it seems I got pretty good with Lucas, but hes not that great of a character. And I tend to switch a lot because of that reason then I get blamed for bandwagoning.

And not only just characters in general, but Brawl itself, I know I tried to get good at melee from that Advanced how to play videos, but that wasnt to long before brawl came out so I waited. But how do you practice to become good at brawl?

Sigh. here comes the flaming.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

TIERS R 4 QUEERS

There, now you know my opinion on the matter. Too bad no one cares and I'm just another hopeless noob who thinks he's cool because I insulted people on the interwebs.lololoololI'm so smrt.

Please GTFO, not only out of this topic, but the Tactical disscussion board as well. Go back to General/Gamefaqs where you can find more of your kind.

 

[cAm8ooo]

HOW IN THE HELL IS GW TOP?

btw its not possible to get better then a character your already good with.. ive tried.. MANY TImes.. and i always end up back at lucas.. ****it i wanna learn MK but i always spam.. either him or Rob because i like his projectiles

I'm guessing you dont play any good GWs because he's for sure top, if not that at least high.

 

[Veng]

TIERS R 4 QUEERS

There, now you know my opinion on the matter.

Your a queer.

There, now you know my opinion on the matter.

 

[JasonLovesKelsey]

Please GTFO, not only out of this topic, but the Tactical disscussion board as well. Go back to General/Gamefaqs where you can find more of your kind.

Really? You think you're funny? I was merely expressing my distaste for Tiers and the attitudes players have about them. Why don't you back to 4chan where YOUR kind is.

All tiers bring is despair for the players who main the 'lower tier' characters. They result in tournaments where players ***** out Snake, Marth, MK, and Falco; and only play on Final Destination with no items. That's not what Smash is about. If that's all it was made for, why would Sakurai cram all the other Characters, Stages, Items and other features into it? Smash is about having fun, that's the bottom line. Now, you may like to play 1vs.1 on FD with items turned off, that's fine. Whatever makes you happy. I, personally, love playing on Spear Pillar and WarioWare (Except for the god awful music...) with all the items turned on and on high. It's pure chaos and those "WTF!? WHAT JUST HAPPENED!?" moments after getting randomly KO'ed make the game for me. They're hilarious to sit back and joke about with friends. Of course, I probably wouldn't want that in a tournament but that's another matter. I have the right to free expression and if I choose to dislike tiers, I would appreciate that I not get flamed by the entire board.

 

[Corigames]

I like how that Jason guy has "Tertiary" characters, meaning they are in between his secondary and and primary characters :S

 

[Morrigan]

If you were just "merely expressing your distate for Tiers and the attitudes players have about them" was the BIG FONT, BOLD, UNDERLINE AND ITALICS necessary?

 

[Stube]

Im not a smash pro but whats a disjointed hitbox..

I guess i might aswell say this too since you guys seem like you know everything:

Ive been playing as Lucas since it came out, but hes not that great and easily countered and hes got 1 projectile thats not that great.

I tried Meta Knight, but my friend said I just ended up spamming and not trying to combo, Id like to try GW and ROB, but first I need some help.

Out of MK, ROB, GW - which would you think be the best for me after a Lucas playing style? I mean I dont wanna just go because its high tier characters but, I forgot his name, KDJ? No, um, well some one in melee used Bowser, and they werent that great, because of that, but ( i heard ) they own in Brawl because of the character change. (Said from PCChris in a video on MLG.com )

So I wanna switch too one of those 3, not only becasue of high tier but, I can say for a fact owning people with GW would be funny, because a lot of first timers are gonna say he sucks ( Cough brian hegge ) and I like Rob because of MKDS. ANd I threw MK in because hes got a sword and it might be a different style..


And the character, How do you practice? I play all day and it seems I got pretty good with Lucas, but hes not that great of a character. And I tend to switch a lot because of that reason then I get blamed for bandwagoning.

And not only just characters in general, but Brawl itself, I know I tried to get good at melee from that Advanced how to play videos, but that wasnt to long before brawl came out so I waited. But how do you practice to become good at brawl?

Sigh. here comes the flaming.

Dude don't use Game & Watch he sucks. His turtle bair sucks sooooooooooooooo much

 

[Mike_Echoes]

^^^ Troll? ^^^

 

[Veng]

Really? You think you're funny? I was merely expressing my distaste for Tiers and the attitudes players have about them. Why don't you back to 4chan where YOUR kind is.

Your the dumass who mains half the brawl roster and the other half is your secondaries/tertaries