Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Mr.Victory07]

Pit isnt high tier

 

[metalmonstar]

It seems there is a disagreement on whether or not Pika beats snake. When I looked in the Pika boards most of them seem to believe that Pikachu does. Why is this? As people have stated here pikachu gets outcamped by other characters. Snake certainly has more camping options than pikachu.

I believe Pikachu is a good counter for Snake. Pikachu's thunderbolts for some reason cancel Nikki and explode gernades and mines. In simple terms Pikachu neutralizes Snake's camping game. Thus snake has to approach. Of course Pikachu has so deadly options. Pika beats snake in the air mostly due to the speed of his aerials. Pikachu can also use dsmash. Even with DI you are going to take damage and even good players sometimes end up in the line of a thunder. Pikachu also has QAC to keep himself away from snake to force him to approach and keep him from getting close enough to use his tilts. I believe Fsmash has greater to or equal to snakes range. Pikachu also has a situational chaingrab against snake. Yes I know about the gernade thus situational. Pikachu can also spam thunder to edge guard snake.

To put it simply, Pikachu neutralizes Snake's projectiles and specials. He beats Snake in the air. Has faster smashes, and can give Snake's recovery trouble.

Pika does not beat Marth, Metaknight, Game and watch, or Wolf. He has a lot of good matchups, but he also has a decent bit of bad ones. Mainly against those above him.

 

[Sh1n0b1]

It seems there is a disagreement on whether or not Pika beats snake. When I looked in the Pika boards most of them seem to believe that Pikachu does. Why is this?

Because for some reason anyone who mains a character who is possibly in the high tier always believes that their character counters Snake (for R.O.B this is an exception since he has somewhat an advantage over Snake)

 

[DanGR]

I thought we were making horizontal styled tier lists...

We are. They are new. Hopefully, they'll catch on...

pikachu GO DOWN

Lucas GO UP.. i think

Pit isnt high tier

^explain please.

Because for some reason anyone who mains a character who is possibly in the high tier always believes that their character counters Snake (for R.O.B this is an exception since he has somewhat an advantage over Snake)

how about you go into the snake, rob, olimar, and pikachu forums and actually LOOK at their matchup threads to see why most of them think pikachu, olimar, and rob have the advantage over him.

 

[metalmonstar]

There is a pattern to who beats snake.

First of all, they all have there own projectile
Secondly there projectile neutralizes Snake's thus limiting his camping
Each of them are better than Snake in the air
Each of them have solid ground games that allow them to compete with Snakes

So who do we have? Most people say that Falco, R.O.B., Pikachu, and Olimar are snake counters.

Falco's lasers come out fast and cause stun. They limit Nikki and outrange gernades.
Pikachu's thunderjolt blows up gernades and mines and also cancels Nikki.
Olimar can sacrifice his pikmin for gernades, mines, and Nikki.
R.O.B.'s Laser goes through Nikki and cause Snake to cancel prematurely. He outranges Snake's gernade. Overall his camping is just better. Overswarm vs. Jiano I think where Snake just threw gernades while overswarm spammed lasers and gyros.

Falco's air game comes out faster than any of Snakes.
Pikachu's aerials come out faster than Snakes
Olimar's are maybe a little bit faster he holds his own in the air if not trumps.
R.O.B. air game comes of faster, can WOP, gimp and has good range.

Falco has his quick Fsmash and powerful Usmash
Pikachu has deadly dsmash, powerful and long ranged Fsmash, and his quick usmash. Not to mention QAC to keep Snake on his feet.
Olimar has his deadly grabs, His long ranged smashes and his Usmash killer.
R.O.B has his dsmash and his fsmash and his tilts have good range.

That is seems to be the pattern that the supposed Snake counters have.

 

[Kiwikomix]

@ metalmonstar: Snake is actually better at shutting down Falco than the other way around, since he can duck under Falco's projectile spam and reflector. Falco's only way of canceling Snake's spam is by replying with his own.

 

[Browny]

Pikachu has deadly dsmash, powerful and long ranged Fsmash, and his quick usmash. Not to mention QAC to keep Snake on his feet.
Olimar has his deadly grabs, His long ranged smashes and his Usmash killer.
R.O.B has his dsmash and his fsmash and his tilts have good range.

That is seems to be the pattern that the supposed Snake counters have.

and snake has his deadly
fsmash, dsmash, usmash, ftilt, utilt, dtilt, a -a-a, nair, fair, uair, dair, bair, neutral b, side b, down b, fthrow, bthrow, dash attack

only olimars usmash comes close to matching anything snake has.

 

[DanGR]

and snake has his deadly
fsmash, dsmash, usmash, ftilt, utilt, dtilt, a -a-a, nair, fair, uair, dair, bair, neutral b, side b, down b, fthrow, bthrow, dash attack

only olimars usmash comes close to matching anything snake has.

seriously? His main killing moves are filt, uptilt, and rarely fsmash. Snake's dash never kills, nor does his neutral b, downb, downsmash, dtilt, upsmash, or his fair. As for Olimar, his upsmash, blue and purple throws, and fsmash (sometimes) all kill reliably.

 

[JrdnS]

and snake has his deadly
fsmash, dsmash, usmash, ftilt, utilt, dtilt, a -a-a, nair, fair, uair, dair, bair, neutral b, side b, down b, fthrow, bthrow, dash attack

only olimars usmash comes close to matching anything snake has.

haha thats practically all his moves. and not all of those are great for killing. utilt and ftilt mostly

 

[PK Hexagon]

@ metalmonstar: Snake is actually better at shutting down Falco than the other way around, since he can duck under Falco's projectile spam and reflector. Falco's only way of canceling Snake's spam is by replying with his own.

Why do people keep saying this? Yes, Snake can crawl underneath lasers. That's great. Thing is, if he's ducking under lasers he's not spamming nikitas, nades or anything else, effectively shutting down his camp game. Which, by the way, doesn't matter because Falco should approach in this match up. Why camp when he can CG for a free 45% into a possible spike/gimp kill?

That said, besides DK, I really don't think theres a viable counter against Snake. Falco and ROB are neutral at best. But Snake doesn't completely murder everyone in this game.

 

[SaxDude93]

Why do people keep saying this? Yes, Snake can crawl underneath lasers. That's great. Thing is, if he's ducking under lasers he's not spamming nikitas, nades or anything else, effectively shutting down his camp game. Which, by the way, doesn't matter because Falco should approach in this match up. Why camp when he can CG for a free 45% into a possible spike/gimp kill?

That said, besides DK, I really don't think theres viable counter against Snake. Falco and ROB are neutral at best. But Snake doesn't completely murder everyone in this game.

Why would you spam NIKITA's? There is too much start-up lag, finishing lag, normal lag, and lag lag. It is also easily dodged.

 

[PK Hexagon]

Why would you spam NIKITA's? There is too much start-up lag, finishing lag, normal lag, and lag lag. It is also easily dodged.

Not 'spam' per se, but you get the gist.

 

[ICANTCOUNT123456]

and snake has his deadly
fsmash, dsmash, usmash, ftilt, utilt, dtilt, a -a-a, nair, fair, uair, dair, bair, neutral b, side b, down b, fthrow, bthrow, dash attack

only olimars usmash comes close to matching anything snake has.

It's too bad that all his moves are really predictable, the only moves snake uses close range are the nade drops, f-tilt and u-tilt.

 

[SaxDude93]

You also have to add the dthrow infinite into Snake's kill moves.

 

[JrdnS]

You also have to add the dthrow infinite into Snake's kill moves.

cant you get out of that?

 

[Grunt]

You also have to add the dthrow infinite into Snake's kill moves.

>.>
That is no where near infinite.

 

[fkacyan]

Captain Falcon is now top tier.

M2k's Dedede got two-stocked by one in a money match.

 

[Grunt]

Captain Falcon is now top tier.

M2k's Dedede got two-stocked by one in a money match.

Link NOW!!!

 

[Emblem Lord]

His Dedede was playing like crap though.

 

[JrdnS]

Captain Falcon is now top tier.

M2k's Dedede got two-stocked by one in a money match.

haha are you serious.
1. who was playing capt falcon
2.is there a vid? if so link?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

His Dedede was playing like crap though.

>.>; Don't john for him, Emblem Lord.

Srsly.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Grunt]

His Dedede was playing like crap though.

3rd Party Johns.
You gotta be really popular to get those.​

EDIT:**** you criminal....

 

[Ulevo]

3rd Party Johns.
You gotta be really popular to get those.​

EDIT:**** you criminal....

This deserves lawl.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Holy ****, is this true?

 

[JrdnS]

M2K must be humiliated.

 

[Emblem Lord]

LOL.

Why would he be? He just laughed and was like GG. He isn't some prick who would lose his mind from losing in a videogame.

Especially one this ****ty.

Also M2K said he doesn't think Dedede is that amazing. He just has a few abusable moves/strats and his heavy so that helps him.

I found this interesting.

 

[Grunt]

How do you know? Video? thread? 1st hand exp?

 

[Emblem Lord]

>___>

I was sitting right next to them during the MM.

I mean...you do realize that M2K lives in NJ and I live in NJ?

Yeeeeeeaaaah.

 

[Grunt]

>___>

I was sitting right next to them during the MM.

I mean...you do realize that M2K lives in NJ and I live in NJ?

Yeeeeeeaaaah.

Well now i do.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yup.

BLARGH!!!!!

I lost to a Snake in tourney today!!!!

NEED SNAKE PRACTICE!!!!

 

[Grunt]

I lost to a Snake in tourney today!!!!

NEED SNAKE PRACTICE!!!!

It takes one to beat one.

 

[Blackshadow]

LOL.

Why would he be? He just laughed and was like GG. He isn't some prick who would lose his mind from losing in a videogame.

Especially one this ****ty.

Also M2K said he doesn't think Dedede is that amazing. He just has a few abusable moves/strats and his heavy so that helps him.

I found this interesting.

A tad touchy there?

 

[Browny]

Also M2K said he doesn't think Dedede is that amazing. He just has a few abusable moves/strats and his heavy so that helps him.

I found this interesting.

thats what youve been saying for a long time lol. also, QFT

 

[ShadowLink84]

>___>

I was sitting right next to them during the MM.

I mean...you do realize that M2K lives in NJ and I live in NJ?

Yeeeeeeaaaah.

You are one state to close. Go away T_T.


but yeah one occurance in which a CF beats a DDD does not mean CF is a counter for DDD.

*shrug*

Its like when Azen's Marth was beaten by a Link, it doesn't change the fact that Marth has an advantage over Link.
*shrug*

 

[Emblem Lord]

Blackshadow: What about anything I stated gave you the impression that I was being touchy? Was it my statement that Brawl is ****ty? It IS ****ty.

Also Snake is hax.

 

[Nestec]

So has it been decided yet on just who is number one? Snake or MK?

 

[Blistering Speed]

Emblem Lord, Link nao k thx, I must see this. O and btw, who was the CF, Lucky or something?

O and Nestec, It's been SNake>MK for a while but people are starting to consider MK as better

 

[Browny]

im bored

A: Snake, MK, G&W (how unusual...)
B: Marth, Falco, ROB, DeDeDe, Wario, Lucario, Olimar, Wolf, Pikachu
C: DK, Pit, Fox, Zelda, TL, Kirby, Ness, IC, Lucas, Diddy, Sonic
D: Mario, Luigi, ZSS, Peach, Yoshi, Shiek, Ike, Link, PT
E: Ganondorf, Bowser, CF, Samus, Jiggs

 

[JrdnS]

It takes one to beat one.

yeah or dk, rob, pika(maybe)

 

[Frown]

im bored

A: Snake, MK, G&W (how unusual...)
B: Marth, Falco, ROB, DeDeDe, Wario, Lucario, Olimar, Wolf, Pikachu
C: DK, Pit, Fox, Zelda, TL, Kirby, Ness, IC, Lucas, Diddy, Sonic
D: Mario, Luigi, ZSS, Peach, Yoshi, Shiek, Ike, Link, PT
E: Ganondorf, Bowser, CF, Samus, Jiggs

I like. Except for that Luigi should be above Mario.