Official BBR Tier List v5

[Jimmyfosho]

Bad points on my part. Though if the infinite gains popularity, a good Diddy could just bring out 1 banana. I know it's not a guaranteed solution and is still rather risky, but it could work.
And I still stand by my statement that Diddy can compete with MK for first.
And I also want to see the video of M2K wrecking ADHD.

It COULD work but it most likely WONT so bringing that up is pretty pointless. Not sure if there are videos out there but here are the most recent result iirc. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=293335

edit: the post before me has the videos.

 

[Spelt]

The responding quote was just ridiculous. Snake actually has results, he has been a top placing character for a long time now.

So ... does ... diddy?
After MLG he's probably doing better than snake in the results category.

M2K vs ADHD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gKxEjhzXnQ

Thanks!

 

[Mr.-0]

Eh. I personally think his cons outwiegh his pros to a (minimal) extent where he should be fifth. He's still good, and those wee valid, but I just think he struggles so much against other characters, and can't compete with them. But, then again, I am retarted, so...

 

[Big Moose]

So ... does ... diddy?
After MLG he's probably doing better than snake in the results category.



Thanks!

No, your post about Bowser was why I said that.

 

[Spelt]

Well, you said snake is 2nd because he's heavy and does a lot of damage and doesn't get punished too hard from a mistake.

Bowser shares those same traits.
So it's a viable comparison.

 

[Big Moose]

Well, you said snake is 2nd because he's heavy and does a lot of damage and doesn't get punished to hard from a mistake.

Bowser shares those same traits.
So it's a viable comparison.

Bowser is a large target, he is slow, has a crap recovery and has no results.
Not a very accurate comparison.

 

[Mr.-0]

Uh, you were talking about Snake's pros. Snake shares those pros. And, also, some of those cons.

Bowser is a LARGE TARGET, he is slow, has a CRAP RECOVERY, and has no results. The slow one isn't really Snake, though I suppose it's debatable, same with his recovery. Snake is good, and has hsi pros, but just plain old struggles and does not have enough when compared to his cons to be numero dos. He should drop a little. Diddy defenitely deserves to RISE, even if Snake shouldn't drop much.

 

[infiniteV115]

Snake's locomotion speed is slow, but that doesn't matter because he doesn't need it. And if he does, he can DACUS across the stage. And his attack speed is good. Whereas Bowser is slow at er'thang.

 

[Z'zgashi]

It COULD work but it most likely WONT so bringing that up is pretty pointless. Not sure if there are videos out there but here are the most recent result iirc. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=293335

edit: the post before me has the videos.

lol @ all top 5 using only MK and diddy.

And dat Oli Logic wit da 6th baybeh

 

[Mr.-0]

Eh, thats why I didn't capitalize speed :/

 

[Spelt]

Bowser is a large target, he is slow, has a crap recovery and has no results.
Not a very accurate comparison.

Snake is also slow and a large target.
We weren't talking about results only weight and damage so they don't matter.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Snake is also slow and a large target.
We weren't talking about results only weight and damage so they don't matter.

Why yes, snake's aerials are slow (besides his b-air).
his actual good moves are quick though: Grenades, jab, tilts, and the DACUS are all quick and useful.

 

[-Mars-]

Snake isn't slow by any stretch of the imagination. Snake walks a lot and remains stationary because he's so good from that position but he isn't "slow".

 

[Spelt]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244329


snake's walking speed is bad, dash speed is bad, and air speed is also ... bad.
he also has the slowest jump in the game, i'm pretty sure?

sure his jab and tilts are fast but they generally are for most characters, so i'm not sure why that stands out any.
his grenades are fast, yes, but they are his best weapon in nearly any situation so makes sense.
his dacus is fast but you can't rely on that for the majority of your movement.

by any common sense of the word he is SLOW.

 

[Steam]

yes because mobility is such an important aspect of a character based on stage control

 

[-Mars-]

Your not sure why his tilts being fast stands out??? REALLY? Maybe cuz they do 21% and kill you at like 105???

 

[Pikabunz]

Don't forget the broken range.

 

[MKOwnage]

I cant see Diddy being number 2.

 

[Spelt]

yes because mobility is such an important aspect of a character based on stage control

Smash bros is based on stage control.

Spoiler

more so brawl and melee than 64, though.

Your not sure why his tilts being fast stands out??? REALLY? Maybe cuz they do 21% and kill you at like 105???

because damage and kill power affects speed?
Ganon must be craycray fast.



Edit: and you're all getting off topic anyway.
the POINT was that snake is slow.
You can't disprove this fact by saying he does 21% with one attack or that his playstyle doesn't require speed.

 

[-Mars-]

The fact that they come out on like frame 5 combined with their power, damage, and range means SNake isn't going to be using many slow moves whatsoever.

People need to stop equating running speed with being fast because Brawl matches are played at a slower pace anyways.

 

[Spelt]

Yeah because jab, ftilt, and grenades defines snake's metagame?
wait... nevermind.


You pointed out snake's best movement option is walking, which i also pointed out as slow.

 

[ErikG]

yes because mobility is such an important aspect of a character based on stage control

Snake's game is largely composed of punishing mistakes. Mobility helps a lot in punishing those mistakes.

In general, Brawl (and other Smash games) are about positioning and spacing.

 

[smashkng]

Snake's game is largely composed of punishing mistakes. Mobility helps a lot in punishing those mistakes.

In general, Brawl (and other Smash games) are about positioning and spacing.

Though thanks to the range of his tilts and dash attack with fast enough start-up and having good grab range he can still punish easily.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I cant see Diddy being number 2.

1
2

There, you just did.

 

[Browny]

mind = blown

 

[da K.I.D.]

snake MOVES slow.

snake ATTACKS incredibly fast

end of discussion

 

[Mr.-0]

I still don't think Snake is second. Broken tilts and a DACUS+ grenades arn't enough to make up for his terrible recovery, terrible aerial game, the fact that he now gets OUTCAMPED in a couple other higher tier matchups, he's easilty hitttable, cgrabable, and has slow movement speed, plus characters like olimar, pikachu, peach, and MK can string him easily. And, contrary to what his boards say, I think he struggles greatly in alot of higher tier matchups. Grenade spamming/camping and just defenseively playing with tilts and waiting to punish with setups and tech chases, is a high-octane (yet still defensive) offense, and because he does so much damage with such a conservatvie defensive style, and can punish and doesn't get hurt by punishing as much, those are definitely great pros and why he is in high tier. But, you said that he can get punished and it dopesn't matter, right? What about when he's at the edge, and gets hit off? He's easily gimpable, has a terrible air game, and a bad recovery. so in some situations his getting punished is really bad. Alot of characters can also chain grab him and psuedo-combo him, because of his slow movement speed and large size, so if he gets cged/semi comboed off the edge, then he could get gimped or something. So even at lower percentages he still has to carre about getting punished, although, admittedly, not as much. But still, I just think ehs truggles to use his only pros to keep up with the oter high tiers, so I definitely think he should be dropped.

 

[Chuee]

Snake's recovery isn't terrible, it just puts him in a terrible position once its over.

 

[smashkng]

If you think Snake's recovery is terrible, then learn to DI. It also gives him a bonus of living forever.

 

[NickRiddle]

I like that people say Snake's aerial game is terrible.
Because it's stupid good, and everybody is ********.

 

[da K.I.D.]

same people that say that snakes air game is bad are the same people that go halfway up screen to juggle him and get outprioritised and die at 80 to a fast fall up air or bair.

 

[Spelt]

snake MOVES slow.

snake ATTACKS incredibly fast

incredibly fast?
not really, plenty of other characters with 2 frame jabs and 5 frame tilts.

 

[Espy Rose]

What other character has a disjointed, 5 frame, 21% damaging tilt?

 

[demonictoonlink]

Snake's aerials are amazing :/

They don't let him be an aerial based character and none of them are for approaching, but bair alone makes him pretty freaking terrifying.

 

[Spelt]

What other character has a disjointed, 5 frame, 21% damaging tilt?

For the 12345367th time.
Damage and hitboxes are not what i'm talking about here.

 

[da K.I.D.]

incredibly fast?
not really, plenty of other characters with 2 frame jabs and 5 frame tilts.

what about a 5 frame 100% kill move, and a frame one counter?

 

[Steam]

For the 12345367th time.
Damage and hitboxes are not what i'm talking about here.

then what kind of point are you trying to make?

 

[Espy Rose]

For the 12345367th time.
Damage and hitboxes are not what i'm talking about here.

Well, I'M talking about them. Who said anything about you?

incredibly fast?
not really, plenty of other characters with 2 frame jabs and 5 frame tilts.

I just realized that this wasn't even a complete thought. My mind exploded.

 

[Exceladon City]

Yeah because jab, ftilt, and grenades defines snake's metagame?
wait... nevermind.


You pointed out snake's best movement option is walking, which i also pointed out as slow.

When Snake can put out a disjoint the size of an Ice Climber, his walking speed isn't even a factor anymore. Forward tilt alone is like an alternate method of mobility.

incredibly fast?
not really, plenty of other characters with 2 frame jabs and 5 frame tilts.

What other character has a disjointed, 5 frame, 21% damaging tilt?

^This

Snake's aerials are amazing :/

They don't let him be an aerial based character and none of them are for approaching, but bair alone makes him pretty freaking terrifying.

Every one of his aerials kill at a ******** percent too.

 

[Spelt]

I'll admit, the frame one counter is very fast.
But again, grenades ARE his best move.