Official BBR Tier List v5

[Ussi]

Marth has amazing tools, but most of his tools can get him punished hard if he reads the situation wrong.

 

[Mr.-0]

I don't think Marth is that good at all, personally, but... people tell me i'm stupid when I say that, so, yeah.

 

[Yikarur]

I don't think Marth is that good at all, personally, but... people tell me i'm stupid when I say that, so, yeah.

Yes
you're stupid
<3

 

[Mr.-0]

Well, I figured I might as well use my gift to make people laugh. But, If MArth's not good, then, admit it, he's bland, boring, and gay.

 

[infiniteV115]

Well, I figured I might as well use my gift to make people laugh. But, If MArth's not good, then, admit it, he's bland, boring, and gay.

I think Marth is one of the most fun characters in the game. Shield breaking and landing meteors are always extremely satisfying. I also love killing with the utilts and up-bs that nobody expects. And in general, he's just a fun character.

And don't you main Marth? :S

 

[Mr.-0]

I didn't say I mained him. I main Falco. And NO, Marth is SO boring.


Edit: Can someone please go through this, gather up all my ****** posts, and put them in a video? Kaythanks.

 

[Sinister Slush]

But we don't want to look for all 706 posts to make it into A... video?

 

[Mr.-0]

Hm. Good Point. Maybe, like, a compendium, just from this thread. I believe you have plenty of material, If I do say so myself.

 

[infiniteV115]

I didn't say I mained him. I main Falco. And NO, Marth is SO boring.


Edit: Can someone please go through this, gather up all my ****** posts, and put them in a video? Kaythanks.

My bad. You have him listed as your Smash Character in your profile, so..

 

[Mr.-0]

Looks can be decieving. In fact, I don't even know why I have that up there. gotta change it. Back to tier list talk, what placement do you guys think Snake should be on the next list?

 

[infiniteV115]

Whether I agree with it or not, he's definitely going to be either 2nd or 3rd on the next list.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

3rd. No other logical spot for him to be at.

 

[Mr.-0]

6th. No other logical spot for him to be at.

So, I didn't get to go to San Francisco for my Christmas Vacation, I am SO bummed. Couldn't wait to see that bueatiful city After so long of living in LA, I miss my hometown very much. Anyone ever been there? It's so awesome.

 

[Deleted member]

...what
sowwy

 

[Deleted member]

I'll have to agree that Marth is kinda boring. :/

 

[Mr.-0]

YAY. So, where do you think Snake lands? Give reasons, say why, and say in sixth!

 

[Steam]

YAY. So, where do you think Snake lands?

trick question. Nowhere, because snake just gets juggled : D

 

[Seagull Joe]

I think Wario or Ics are 5th.

 

[deepseadiva]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 18 (15 members and 3 guests)

Why is such a terrible thread so popular.

 

[Mr.-0]

Because people like watching ******* post.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Snake will be 3rd because he still gets results and everyone has bias that he has to be a good character.

 

[Mr.-0]

Of Course. Snake is so overrated.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yet so many like yourselfs think otherwise.

 

[Savon]

We all know that Diddy is better than Snake. Snake should move down to the 3rd spot below Diddy. Snake might be overrated, he might be destroyed in the air by anybody with a decent air game, but the fact is that he still works. Snake still does what he needs to do to win. People can say all they want about Snake deserving a huge drop, but what have the people below him besides Diddy done to warrant them being above him? Somebody needs to answer that question first and foremost.

What has Falco done recently that Snake has not? What has Wario done recently that Snake has not? What has Marth done recently that Snake has not? What have the Ice Climbers done? Snake might not be as dominant as he used to be, but he is still more dominant than those below him besides Diddy.

 

[Hylian]

You guys are crazy. Snake is heavy enough and does so much damage that all the stuff on paper about abusing him doesn't really matter. You can't take into account reads when talking about match-ups. Snake does a ton of damage from a single read, and can afford to make far more mistakes than other characters because of his survivability. This alone makes him one of the best characters. No one is going to play perfect and abuse everyone perfectly, snakes margin of error is far greater than other characters. This means he is always going to place high, even at the top levels of play.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

. . . Snake is heavy enough and does so much damage that all the stuff on paper about abusing him doesn't really matter. . . Snake does a ton of damage from a single read, and can afford to make far more mistakes than other characters because of his survivability.

Why the entire cast practically goes even with Snake

 

[Savon]

Why the entire cast practically goes even with Snake

Because the one thing that always puts Snake ahead is his ability to rack up damage like it is nothing in a matter of seconds. D-throw>ftilt for example. Nobody wants to put a MU in his favor because of things like that even though those are the things that win fights for Snake. People assume that their ability to abuse Snake in certain aspects justifies an even MU when it doesn't.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Polt took first with solo yoshi so >

But seriously, I think snake is a solid character (lol get it, solid snake) and even though he isn't as dominent as he used to be, he still does better than most everyone else, so he deserves to stay top 3. At least in my opinion.

 

[Mr.-0]

Savon, characters do not need to "do" anything to go up, they just need to "be" better in the current metagame. I, quite honestly, do not believe a character's tournament ranking has nothing to do with a tier list. A tier list, is a list that ranks a character's potential to win under tournament conditions, thank you smash wiki. I think that a character's tournament placing is a level of the skill of the player times the ability of the character, and the ability of the character to be played at the highest possible HUMAN level is what is measured in a tier list, and I don't think that this data can be gatehered from that characetr's tournament results. If all the top players suddenly started using D3, and they won all the tournies, that wouldn't mean that D3 should rise. D3 should only rise on the tier list if people believe he is better as a character, in the current metagame, than people thought before. Therefore, a character does not need to "do" anything, short of "being" good. The only real thing that a character can "do" is have more AT's discovered for it, but that's dependent on if the character naturally has any, and if their respective communities can find it. Other than that, a Character can only be naturally better or worse to move up on the tier list. And we have the BBR to determine if that character, with it's new AT's learned, advances in the metagame, and MU revision, should rise or drop on the tier list. I personally think that tournament placings should have next to nothing to do with a tier list.

 

[Juushichi]

> I, quite honestly, do not believe a character's tournament ranking has nothing to do with a tier list.
> A tier list, is a list that ranks a character's potential to win under tournament conditions, thank you smash wiki.
> I personally think that tournament placings should have next to nothing to do with a tier list.

 

[Savon]

I see where you are coming from, but you have to think about practicality as well. You are totally leaving out the human factor that makes a huge difference when it comes to characters. There are many characters who revolve heavily around punishing other characters in order to fight, but reading opponents and capitalizing on their mistakes is something that relates to the player more than the character. These are important things I would factor in while making a tier list that do not always pertain purely to the character. I do not think you are being realistic.

That is one think I look at when I see the Ice Climbers. They can rip a character to shreds with their grabs, but how practical and executable are some of these grab tricks from the perspective of the person controlling them? Practicality is quite important, and human error is also important to keep in mind.

 

[Mr.-0]

You didn't get what I was saying, apparently. AT THE HIGHEST HUMANLY LEVEL POSSIBLE IN THE CURRENT METAGAME, WHERE EVERYONE PLAYED AT THE SAME TOP LEVEL, THAN ONLY THE CHARACTERS WOULD MATTER. IT WOULDN'T MATTER HOW THEY DID IN PREVIOUS TOURNAMENTS, IT ONLY MATTERS HOW GOOD THE CHARACTER IS. IF a character is very good, than it should be expected to do well in tournament conditions. If it is bad, it will do poorly. But do the fact that the metagame changes, players continue to get better, and that players have not yet reached the top human level, which probably won't ever happen, ftr, previous tournament results should not matter, evev though the whole purpose of a tier list is to predict how character's will do.

This post is directed to that jussichi guy, ftr also.


And savon, chaarcters are played by people, but a tier list is from the top possible level of human play, so it should factor in those things that you said. That's why I think IC's would be number one if this game's metagame jumped ahead and finished, but because of the current metagame, and the current top player skill level, he should NOT be number one. So, yeah, I guess that means we've come to a, uh, compromise?

 

[MKOwnage]

Jimmy, look at his location. He doesn't know any better.

I've only heard this a million times.
I was merely saying I think CF is an underrated character.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Without tournaments results, you have no way to back up someone's claim about a character's performance capabilities. You need evidence. Also, the tier list is very closely related to the highest skill level of the present. This is why tier list's flux. The highest human possible 2 years ago is vastly different than it is now.

 

[Mr.-0]

The evidence would be a thoroguh analysis of that character's movesets, MU's, and AT's, analyzed by top level players . How else do yu think MU's are made from, pure Frame Data?

 

[MKOwnage]

Without tournaments results, you have no way to back up someone's claim about a character's performance capabilities. You need evidence. Also, the tier list is very closely related to the highest skill level of the present. This is why tier list's flux. The highest human possible 2 years ago is vastly different than it is now.

What I was getting at is that i thinnk if CF had a larger range of users he would be higher.
But as long as MK is around no one will use him.

 

[Mr.-0]

I'm pretty sure that was in response to me. But thanks anyway, that little tadbit helped my argument, I guess.

 

[MKOwnage]

I'm pretty sure that was in response to me. But thanks anyway, that little tadbit helped my argument, I guess.

The way it was worded I honestly couldn't tell who it was aimed at.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

What I was getting at is that i thinnk if CF had a larger range of users he would be higher.
But as long as MK is around no one will use him.

No not really... the truth is Falcon (as most of the low tiers are) is terrible, and not many use him(and other low tiers) because of that reason.

 

[Mr.-0]

And that's why he is low on the tier list, not because he doesn't place well! YAY people get it!