Official BBR Tier List v5

[Albert.]

Falco's speed and camping ?

 

[Mr.-0]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum From there. Seriously, just sorta... looking at Snake, his moveset, the way people play him, his performance at MLG (though Falco's was worse) and from drawing conclusions from an analysis of the current metagame and the analysis of their respective movesets. pros, cons, and MU's? Well, not so much the snake MU's, unaccurate as I beleive they are.

 

[infiniteV115]

Eh, not really, ZSS is heavily underrated and has lots of potential, but IDK if she's above even Snake. And not Marth, either. And ZSS should not eb that high, just higher than what she is, same with sonic. ANd Olimar and chu should go up too.

I still think ZSS and Marth are above Snake, but again I could be biased (ZSS main, Marth and Diddy are secondaries). I do agree, however, that Sonic, Olimar and Pikachu should be higher than they are.

ZSS above Snake. no way. M2K 3 stocked Nick Riddle. ZSS should be mid tier.

So? Their first game was very close, M2K was at his last stock with 116%. Hell, Snakeee (ZSS main) 2 stocked M2K once, and M2K 3 stocked Brood in the first match of their set at APEX, and Brood ended up winning the entire set. Point is, you can't just use 1 match between 1 pair of players to prove a point. 1 match doesn't cut it (neither does 1 set), 1 pair of players doesn't cut it, and 1 match-up doesn't cut it. These are bad ways to prove where a certain character should be on the tier list. I said ZSS was underrated, and you basically just said "well this is how ZSS has already fared once, therefore you're wrong." And you're completely neglecting the fact that Nick Riddle made it to winner's finals AND placed 3rd at MLG Columbus 2010.

My point was that ZSS is underrated and has a lot of potential. There are nowhere near as many ZSS mains as there are MKs, Snakes, Diddys, Falcos, etc, and this is because she's a hard character to pick up. It takes a while to learn how to recover, how to do things other than just spam her side-b, etc. But she's been climbing her way up the tier list (from 21-13) for a reason. And if you haven't seen Nick Riddle's video/thread on her dsmash-foostool-ledgegrab-edgeguard, then go look at it.

And she DOES NOT BELONG IN MID TIER

 

[Chuee]

I think olimar and pikachu being that high are reasonable. Isn't a tier list a representation of the highest possible human play of a character in the current metagame? If that's so, with ESAM ripping it up and Brood reigning over Japan, I think those two have tons of potential to go up.

Ok, then we might as well put sonic over snake then.
lol @ Brood reigning Japan. He isn't even the best Olimar in Japan.

 

[Mr.-0]

Chuee, have u been sealing my salvia? Brood, BEFORE apex, wasn't considered the best Olimar in Japan. Now they say he's the best of them all in japan. And, no, Sonic has not the tools nor potential to be above Snake, but u were just mocking me

 

[Ripple]

Chuee, have u been sealing my salvia? Brood, BEFORE apex, wasn't considered the best Olimar in Japan. Now they say he's the best of them all in japan. And, no, Sonic has not the tools nor potential to be above Snake, but u were just mocking me

I recall a tournament after apex in which brood lost and the other olimar player out ranked him

 

[infiniteV115]

A tier list is more like:
A prediction (based on tournament results) of how characters are expected to perform in tournament situations. Essentially, it is the BBR's opinion on how good the characters are based on tourney results, not to say that it's an uneducated/biased opinion in any way at all.

 

[san.]

I think Diddy is actually underrepresented if people believes he's 2nd, compared to Falco and snake. I can't think of nearly as many Diddys as I can Falcos on the spot.

 

[Mr.-0]

Eh, I thought it was a measure of a character's top potential at the highest humanly possible level of play in the current metagame, gathered from an in-depth analysis of that character's MU's, top level games, top level tournament results, bets players, and mostly of an even thourogher analysis of that characters tools, moveset, and their "theoretical" potential. And Brood lost in a japanese tourny? jeez, whos king there now?

 

[Chuee]

Chuee, have u been sealing my salvia? Brood, BEFORE apex, wasn't considered the best Olimar in Japan. Now they say he's the best of them all in japan. And, no, Sonic has not the tools nor potential to be above Snake, but u were just mocking me

No he's not lol.
Nietono places better than Brood in Japan.

 

[Mr.-0]

But who's number one then?

 

[da K.I.D.]

Go to Genesis 2, Seagull. $5/$10 MM. Allow me to be the first Sonic you "lose" to.

sorry bro, me first.

Also @ KiD- while back you said you'd get as good a placing at Pound like X/Espy. Strong words dawg better back em up and with SONIC....not with the 15 other characters you play <3.

danggggggg... dat ccall out... I got you.

have you played either player?

if yes then youre mentally ********/have no idea how to value skill or so awful you dont know better

then again you could be both

its been a while but Ive played them both. maybe you should get up to date and stop riding the ally hype train when the last stop on that bad boy was like 3 months ago.

Dude this is like the worst video example I've ever seen. How does it really illustrate your point? Bizkit made a mistake, whiling playing MK. he doesn't main MK.

my point is that if it was snake in that bad of a situation he wouldnt have made it back, and when people make gimping diddy, as automatic as gimping snake, then we can evaluate things at that point

And there is no way he's worse than third. Anything lower than that is simply stupid.

I'm also fully expecting him to eventually pop back up over Diddy once people have learned that MU as well as they have the Snake MU down, but I'm betting that will take at least a year. >_>

something like this.

1) It's incredibly stupid and inaccurate to say that Diddys pulling stupid/lucky gimps on noobs/people who aren't paying attention is the only reason people think he's better than Snake. There are many valid reasons for&against the "Diddy > Snake" idea, but I assure you that the occurrence of such gimps is NOT one of the reasons for.

not just stupid lucky gimps, but recoveries in general, my main problem with the clip I gave was that the diddy recovered in the first place, the fact that the mk died for it was just icing.

2) Diddy and Falco get horribly abused offstage FAR LESS OFTEN than Snake, Snake's cypher is absolutely horrible and he can be knocked out of it quite easily. Also, being grab released out of cypher/ after cypher but before landing forces Snake to save himself with a C4, which at high percentages is a likely death. Diddy and Falco are very hard to abuse offstage (especially Diddy), especially when compared to Snake. Snake's recovery is probably his absolute worst aspect.

honest question, what about diddys recovery is good?
basically, people need to just start spacing better and not getting hit by the side b that EVERYONE knows is coming and learn to beat the up b consistently, its REALLY not hard.

Anyone who knows a lot more about Snake than I do, feel free to jump in and urinate on anything stupid/incorrect I've said. It's a learning experience :D

might be hypocritical right now, but more people should be this humble.

I think Diddy is actually underrepresented if people believes he's 2nd, compared to Falco and snake. I can't think of nearly as many Diddys as I can Falcos on the spot.

only thing is that the diddys that immediately come to mind are better than the falcos. If you put ADHD, felix, and gnes, and dehf, shugo, and choice at the same tourney, the diddys would probably out place the falcos rather solidly.

Eh, I thought it was a measure of a character's top potential at the highest humanly possible level of play in the current metagame, gathered from an in-depth analysis of that character's MU's, top level games, top level tournament results, bets players, and mostly of an even thourogher analysis of that characters tools, moveset, and their "theoretical" potential.

mostly this, but that last part shouldnt be applied at all.


And Brood lost in a japanese tourny? jeez, whos king there now?

this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oypovBDeTMw

 

[Mr.-0]

Ah. Well, that last part should be reached from the other ones. And is that guy just their best Olimar, or their best player? Regardless, with him on their side, I can reasonably say we would never win a gigantic crew match against them XD

 

[Tesh]

I thought we had some of our best players heading over for the SRT to beat them.

 

[Mr.-0]

SRT????? And, no, we're totally effed lol

 

[Deleted member]

Pika might be top 5, zero suit is awful, olimar is good but not that good.

Snake really isnt that bad, and why do people think falco is super amazing. Regardless of what ally "says" he still places amazingly (even if he has his off periods).

Why do people think falco is that good, snake places way better than falco, his jab is obviously amazing but the character just isnt that good. His recovery doesnt help.
Diddy should probably be above snake, and regardless of whether its a "fad" or not, that shouldnt really apply. You cant take how good the character will be later into account really. Diddy has the tools and results to justify 2nd.

I guess you could argue pika being ahead of snake but i dont think so and i wont argue that.
Imo top 5 is
MK
Diddy
Snake
Pikachu
Falco

 

[Mr.-0]

IMO top 5 is

Diddy
MK
Olimar
Pikachu
Falco

The diddy and MK should be switched, but for asthetic reasons I shall keep them the way they are.

 

[san.]

only thing is that the diddys that immediately come to mind are better than the falcos. If you put ADHD, felix, and gnes, and dehf, shugo, and choice at the same tourney, the diddys would probably out place the falcos rather solidly.

Maybe. I was never on the falco bandwagon (or the Diddy one), but I want Diddys to be more common already!

 

[Mr.-0]

I don't. And didn't DEHF quit? With that, and sk-92 never really ebing that good, plus my never hearing of "shugo" before, I can't think of a single really good falco, sans Rain (see what i did there?) Who's japanese. Yet I still put Snake below Falco. Hm... I'm reconsidering this, but I'll stand by that for now.

 

[Chuee]

Since when did DEHF say he was quiting................

 

[Mr.-0]

At APEX 2010, right? Didn't he say that was his last one? I haven't heard from him sence, If he was still around, I think I would know.

I'm SO waiting for someone to make me look like an idiot with this post.

 

[Coney]

And didn't DEHF quit?

sk-92 never really ebing that good,

plus my never hearing of "shugo" before,

I can't think of a single really good falco,

...what

this thread should have a mandatory awareness test before posting

 

[Deleted member]

lolol
mr. -O-
dehf didnt quit hes still equally active. He got 11th or something at dallas.

you should probably lurk =P

 

[Delta-cod]

Why do people think Pika is top 5? Honest question here.

 

[Coney]

Yep, olimar and chu, 4th and 5th.

everything this guy says is hilarious

 

[Pikabunz]

Pikachu is a horrible character. He just chaingrabs and thunders.

 

[Mr.-0]

Cause hes' good. and sorry guys, trhis stuff makes ya see things, ya know?

Pikas QAQ, overall moveset, thunder bolt plus jolt spam, an his chiangrabs, along with his placements lead some to believe that overall, he should be top 5 in the tier list.

 

[stingers]

quick attack quancel

 

[Chuee]

QAQ is soooooo broken :/

 

[Ripple]

no good pika other than esam even exists. anther quit. and k prime who's probably the second best (AFAIK) is solidly behind esam

pika does not have anyone even near ESAM in terms of results. this will most likely be another case of reflex.

he's too big of an outlier

 

[Pikabunz]

Sonic players have accomplished more than Pikachu players. Put Pika in mid tier.

@Ripple - Pikapika still plays.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Go to Genesis 2, Seagull. $5/$10 MM. Allow me to be the first Sonic you "lose" to.

Free 10 bucks if I can attend then.

sorry bro, me first.

danggggggg... dat ccall out... I got you.

its been a while but Ive played them both. maybe you should get up to date and stop riding the ally hype train when the last stop on that bad boy was like 3 months ago.

my point is that if it was snake in that bad of a situation he wouldnt have made it back, and when people make gimping diddy, as automatic as gimping snake, then we can evaluate things at that point

something like this.

not just stupid lucky gimps, but recoveries in general, my main problem with the clip I gave was that the diddy recovered in the first place, the fact that the mk died for it was just icing.

honest question, what about diddys recovery is good?
basically, people need to just start spacing better and not getting hit by the side b that EVERYONE knows is coming and learn to beat the up b consistently, its REALLY not hard.

might be hypocritical right now, but more people should be this humble.

only thing is that the diddys that immediately come to mind are better than the falcos. If you put ADHD, felix, and gnes, and dehf, shugo, and choice at the same tourney, the diddys would probably out place the falcos rather solidly.

this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oypovBDeTMw

More free Sonic money.

...what

this thread should have a mandatory awareness test before posting

Yes it should.

Why do people think Pika is top 5? Honest question here.

LOLWUT? Pikachu as top 5? *picks Marth, Diddy, Olimar, or Rob*

everything this guy says is hilarious

Zak, don't be hating. Sonic is even with Pikachu and Olimar. Sonic is now high tier because of Mlg. By this logic, Sonic is 6th best in the game.

Salvia. it's legal in california. But im clean now. Yep, olimar and chu, 4th and 5th. Too me, it seems reasonable. Once players pick up on them, ESAM and rich brown won't be the only good ones.

I have seen the light. Ganon also should be mid tier because DLA's representation in just Illinois makes up for every other Ganon.

Sonic players have accomplished more than Pikachu players. Put Pika in mid tier.

@Ripple - Pikapika still plays.

I think Z still plays too. And NL's Pikachu is still good.

 

[Mr.-0]

I think you were making fun of me ^^^



I'm dot jigh, ur hust numb.

 

[Steam]

did mr. zero really say that MK isn't the best character in the game? really now...

REALLY NOW...

also ZSS is free once you learn to not get gimmicked and you learn to powershield her ****

 

[C~Dog]

But who's number one then?

You are Number Six.

 

[demonictoonlink]

also ZSS is free once you learn to not get gimmicked and you learn to powershield her ****

Steam...don't...be stupid. You wouldn't beat even a mediocre ZSS :/

And to be fair, with a reasonable LGL and a much higher level of play, I still think IC's could take the top spot.

 

[MKOwnage]

I tried it with all ranged grabs and got no freeze from either of them.

Does this work all the time?
I know Sheik's whip has crashed my game a few times.

Also: Sonic sucks, we all know Ganon is the best in the game.
Start making hype.

 

[Nestec]

Some people in this thread really bug me...

*sigh*

:green:

 

[Steam]

Steam...don't...be stupid. You wouldn't beat even a mediocre ZSS :/

And to be fair, with a reasonable LGL and a much higher level of play, I still think IC's could take the top spot.

so? I don't have to do something to know how to do something :/

once you learn to PS ZSS's stuff she really doesn't have much on you...

or camp her with falco :V

 

[MKOwnage]

Some people in this thread really bug me...

*sigh*

:green:

I'm sorry the internet bugs you.

On topic: Anyone else think CF is capable of raising on the tier list?