Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Steam]

Like who? Also, who the hell does that air release bull****? Also, I do the Yoshi infinite.

no you don't, you get one regrab off of it. you can't actually consistently CG yoshi with that.

 

[Doc King]

Bowser only gets the Uair because he has a 20 frame cool down.
Where as everyone else has a 30 frame cool down.
When you're air released, the person in the Air is in a 50 Frame lag.
Bowser has a 30 Frame Advantage when he Air Releases someone.

Bowser's Uair = Frame 16.
Full hop = Frame 9.

Frame 25.
If he had a normal cool down like everyone else.
It would never hit.

D3 has a slope infinite on Wario because Wario is heavy and he has crappy traction and his pivot grab can range long enough to regrab him. You can also chaingrab into a slope infinite on Halberd and Frigate to get a majority of the stage to get the infinite on Wario.

 

[1PokeMastr]

D3 has a slope infinite on Wario because Wario is heavy and he has crappy traction and his pivot grab can range long enough to regrab him. You can also chaingrab into a slope infinite on Halberd and Frigate to get a majority of the stage to get the infinite on Wario.

That has NOTHING to do with what I said.

 

[Doc King]

I've followed it decently closely. What does "viable" mean to you? The initial definition I usually work with is "stands a reasonable chance to win a tournament". If your definition is different, tell me what you think it means.

According to that definition, Mk definitely is the only viable character. 60% of tourney money out of 40 characters? That's insane man.

no you don't, you get one regrab off of it. you can't actually consistently CG yoshi with that.

Well at least I can do it a few times. You guys can't even do the air release once.

That has NOTHING to do with what I said.

Saying how much a theorycrafting thing that has never been used before is useful and affective, but saying stuff like D3 on Wario slope infinite is useless is so hypocritical, it makes me laugh me *** off.

Your guys logic is like so fanboyish and ****ty. It's where you makes excuses to prove that your character is so good (Fluttershy) and saying D3 is bs (A lot of *******es on here). It's like ****ing SavemeJebus. Make up ur damn mind ppl. Either Theorycraft, Plank and win, or tourneys. Which one do you guys choose?

 

[Kuro~]

What? The air release is guaranteed doc. Wtf. Just ask Mink.

 

[Zankoku]

According to that definition, Mk definitely is the only viable character. 60% of tourney money out of 40 characters? That's insane man.

That's a pretty hefty claim there. In winning 60% of tournament money, Meta Knight is therefore the only character in the game that can win a tournament? What, is the remaining 40% somehow, despite being nearly half the cash circulated since the beginning of that thread, just a minor statistical anomaly that can't be trusted to prove anything otherwise?

If Meta Knight is definitely the only viable character, why isn't he winning even close to all the money? I can't think of a single answer that would make sense in that context.

 

[cHp]

According to that definition, Mk definitely is the only viable character. 60% of tourney money out of 40 characters? That's insane man.

Well at least I can do it a few times. You guys can't even do the air release once.


Saying how much a theorycrafting thing that has never been used before is useful and affective, but saying stuff like D3 on Wario slope infinite is useless is so hypocritical, it makes me laugh me *** off.

Your guys logic is like so fanboyish and ****ty. It's where you makes excuses to prove that your character is so good (Fluttershy) and saying D3 is bs (A lot of *******es on here). It's like ****ing SavemeJebus. Make up ur damn mind ppl. Either Theorycraft, Plank and win, or tourneys. Which one do you guys choose?

I normally don't post too often but you are stupid beyond human comprehension.

People aren't making stuff up to prove that their character's are good, they're simply stating tools they have (with most of these being practical in-game) whereas you're posting D3 stuff that no D3 main can reliably do. Criticizing people for theorycraft is stupid as well when the majority of your own posts are theorycraft or unpractical.

This thread lost all its credibility once you started posting in it so please, get the **** out.

 

[Steam]

Well at least I can do it a few times. You guys can't even do the air release once.

I tried it just now for the very first time. I was able to do it consistently in about 30 seconds.

 

[Cassius.]

I don't quite understand what the argument is anymore...

 

[Kuro~]

Well, if doc got it down enough to a few grabs that means it is humanly possible. I think you guys are a bit too harsh with him. I will agree until i see him or another d3 do it in tourney where it affects the outcome of the match it can be regarded as non-factor. But it still doesn't mean a simple dismissal is necessary.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Doc King. You idiot.
How on earth was I theory crafting ?
I was simply posting the IN GAME FRAME DATA proving that the Air Release on Jigglypuff is TRUE.

In my opinion. ACTUAL data proving something, is NOT theory crafting.

And I don't even main Bowser.

I main Falco/ Marth/ Dk.

 

[Doc King]

What? The air release is guaranteed doc. Wtf. Just ask Mink.

Same with the Yoshi infinite. Just watch this and stfu. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YunQ5gxogJg

That's a pretty hefty claim there. In winning 60% of tournament money, Meta Knight is therefore the only character in the game that can win a tournament? What, is the remaining 40% somehow, despite being nearly half the cash circulated since the beginning of that thread, just a minor statistical anomaly that can't be trusted to prove anything otherwise?

If Meta Knight is definitely the only viable character, why isn't he winning even close to all the money? I can't think of a single answer that would make sense in that context.

The only problem is that there's like 40 other characters. How much do the other characters make?

I normally don't post too often but you are stupid beyond human comprehension.

People aren't making stuff up to prove that their character's are good, they're simply stating tools they have (with most of these being practical in-game) whereas you're posting D3 stuff that no D3 main can reliably do. Criticizing people for theorycraft is stupid as well when the majority of your own posts are theorycraft or unpractical.

This thread lost all its credibility once you started posting in it so please, get the **** out.

So ur saying that D3 mains are trash? You guys can't even give me a ****ing video. You have to be a ****ing hypocrite for critisizing me for theorycrafting. Fluttershy does that bs all the ****ing time.

I will ask this one more time, WHO THE **** DOES THE AIR RELEASE BULL ****!? Also, it doesn't matter since it's on a ****ty character called puff. And if ur saying Yoshi is a good character, then guess what? D3 gets another solid top/high tier matchup where D3 mains will actually practice the grab. If Yoshi really was good, D3 mains would do this **** day and night.

I tried it just now for the very first time. I was able to do it consistently in about 30 seconds.

Good for you, I was able to do the Yoshi infinite about 5 times in a row before.

 

[Xubble]

Doc King, has anybody ever AGREED with you?

Like, not out of sympathy, but actually AGREED with you?


You've been around for over a year. And I'm sure as hell that you've been met with negative criticism the ENTIRE way. Now, don't you think that's a sign? It's time for you to stop posting, get a grip on reality and maturity, and come back when you actually have a basic understanding of what it means to be an accepted member of a community.

Cause nobody is accepting you. We're just getting pissed off and pitying your sorry ***.

 

[Doc King]

Doc King. You idiot.
How on earth was I theory crafting ?
I was simply posting the IN GAME FRAME DATA proving that the Air Release on Jigglypuff is TRUE.

In my opinion. ACTUAL data proving something, is NOT theory crafting.

And I don't even main Bowser.

I main Falco/ Marth/ Dk.

By proving that some technique that's not used in tourney before is actually useful.

So ur saying that goes +4 against ?

 

[Cassius.]

Uh...I'm still really confused, is there a specific character he's directing the "air release" question to, because I mean...I use air releases all the time.

I really hope that question is more specific than what I'm thinking of..

 

[cHp]

So ur saying that D3 mains are trash? You guys can't even give me a ****ing video. You have to be a ****ing hypocrite for critisizing me for theorycrafting. Fluttershy does that bs all the ****ing time.

I will ask this one more time, WHO THE **** DOES THE AIR RELEASE BULL ****!? Also, it doesn't matter since it's on a ****ty character called puff. And if ur saying Yoshi is a good character, then guess what? D3 gets another solid top/high tier matchup where D3 mains will actually practice the grab. If Yoshi really was good, D3 mains would do this **** day and night.

1) No where in my post did I say D3 mains were garbage. I said most of your ATs were garbage for being extremely difficult to do consistently to the point where learning them is useless.

2) As stated before by various users, the Yoshi-Puff matchup happens so rarely that there probably isn't any video evidence. Do it yourself in training mode or something and you'll see that it exists. (I'm assuming that's what you're referring to, yes?)

3) I didn't say Yoshi was good.

lrn2read

 

[Zankoku]

The only problem is that there's like 40 other characters. How much do the other characters make?

What does this have to do with being viable or not? Unless the remaining 40% was only not taken by Meta Knight because it was claimed by the mysterious Meat Knight, you're basically saying that any viability that might be able to win a non-trivial fraction of the 40% of all money recorded in that thread (that's $40,438.60) is so small that it might as well be treated as unviable. This is either an extremely biased interpretation of the statistics or a result of the choice to outright disregard them and just follow some bandwagon or other of hating Meta Knight and spouting blanket statements when questioned about it.

So, again, if Meta Knight is the only viable character, why isn't he even close to winning all $100,000+?

EDIT: Actually, just checked the thread again. Where the **** are you getting 60% from?

 

[Doc King]

Doc King, has anybody ever AGREED with you?

Like, not out of sympathy, but actually AGREED with you?


You've been around for over a year. And I'm sure as hell that you've been met with negative criticism the ENTIRE way. Now, don't you think that's a sign? It's time for you to stop posting, get a grip on reality and maturity, and come back when you actually have a basic understanding of what it means to be an accepted member of a community.

Cause nobody is accepting you. We're just getting pissed off and pitying your sorry ***.

Then what the **** is Jebus doing here?

And ppl have agreed with me before. You guys just have a hatred on D3 and seem to make any john to prove that he sucks.

 

[1PokeMastr]

By proving that some technique that's not used in tourney before is actually useful.

So ur saying that goes +4 against ?

Erm.
If it's proved to be true.
It can be used in Tourney.

Doc King learned. Application of Knowledge! Hurrah!

 

[Xubble]

Then what the **** is Jebus doing here?

And ppl have agreed with me before. You guys just have a hatred on D3 and seem to make any john to prove that he sucks.

Jebus has nothing to do with this. Not sure why you even bring him up. He's dumb, but this is directed at YOU and YOU alone.

And we don't hate D3. Hell, I MAIN Dedede, and I'm willing to admit that he sucks in some respects. Nobody makes excuses for why Dedede sucks. He just DOES suck in some areas. Tourneys and nationals can prove that.

Nobody here honestly hates Dedede with an unbridled passion like you think we do. We're living in reality, and until you step down here and see for yourself, nobody is going to respect you. And I mean it. Nobody.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I use to main D3 religiously and have been watching this thread for quite sometime. We don't hate D3, we hate how biased you our towards him and your constant presents in this thread. You lack experience and have alot of bias when D3 comes into the picture during conversations. Normally this would be no big deal. But when anyone DAAARES give you criticism or challenges what you say you get passive aggressive and your claims just get more ridiculous from there.

Sorry if this comes out as rude, but be less biased, don't make wild claims, and learn to take constructive criticism.

Criticisms just something you have to deal with. Its like pain. Its an irritating but necessary experience because its drawing attention to something wrong with you.

 

[Doc King]

1) No where in my post did I say D3 mains were garbage. I said most of your ATs were garbage for being extremely difficult to do consistently to the point where learning them is useless.

2) As stated before by various users, the Yoshi-Puff matchup happens so rarely that there probably isn't any video evidence. Do it yourself in training mode or something and you'll see that it exists. (I'm assuming that's what you're referring to, yes?)

3) I didn't say Yoshi was good.

lrn2read

1) If ur *****ing at me to do the air release bull****, then why don't you practice the Wario slope infinite on Halberd and Frigate?

2) lol. Just get a quick replay and upload it. Why should I have to do it, when you guys didn't do my AT's?

3) I was referring to all smashboards ppl (Mainly fluttershy for the Yoshi bs). Good thing you don't think Yoshi is good.

What does this have to do with being viable or not? Unless the remaining 40% was only not taken by Meta Knight because it was claimed by the mysterious Meat Knight, you're basically saying that any viability that might be able to win a non-trivial fraction of the 40% of all money recorded in that thread (that's $40,438.60) is so small that it might as well be treated as unviable. This is either an extremely biased interpretation of the statistics or a result of the choice to outright disregard them and just follow some bandwagon or other of hating Meta Knight and spouting blanket statements when questioned about it.

So, again, if Meta Knight is the only viable character, why isn't he even close to winning all $100,000+?

EDIT: Actually, just checked the thread again. Where the **** are you getting 60% from?

I'm getting the 60% from John#'s data when the mk ban debate was going on.

Can someone find me data of tourney money winnings? I wanna see if I'm right or not. I think I am right though since many ppl were saying he overcentralizes the metagame. Maybe the top tiers are partially viable, but overall, it's all about !

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Then it's just like every other fighting game

 

[zmx]

I'm not sure why there is an argument about DDD vs Yoshi. How often do you find this mathup in tournys? They're aren't exactly a lot of DDD OR Yoshi mains to begin with. So why would anyone want to find a hard counter for Yoshi? The chances of you actually facing one in a tourny is just so low.

Anyways does anybody think DDD doesn't belong where he currently is on the tier list? Personally I think he's fine where he is. Tourny results show that. Good DDD players can consistently get top 5/10.

 

[Kuro~]

I think he's fine at bottom of high. But this is mu thread. Not tier list

 

[1PokeMastr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYhMjNRcvaE&feature=youtu.be

Hurrah? Take it and leave it.
Excuse my soft spoken voice.

 

[Zankoku]

I'm getting the 60% from John#'s data when the mk ban debate was going on.

Can someone find me data of tourney money winnings? I wanna see if I'm right or not. I think I am right though since many ppl were saying he overcentralizes the metagame. Maybe the top tiers are partially viable, but overall, it's all about !

First you ask me if I've seen John's thread, then you can't be bothered to look it up yourself? Really?

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/9799/week50.png

In the most recent week, Meta Knight has won 42-73% (estimated 58%) of all money for the week. Over the course of the year, he has won 36-52% (estimated 44%) of all money for the year.

Next time you cite a thread as your source, you might want to actually read the thread instead of relying on pure hearsay.

lol "partially viable". It's almost like you just make up things to say and add sensationalist remarks to support it.

 

[da K.I.D.]

almost ankoku?

Thats Exactly what it is.

 

[| Big D |]

Wow, a lot of stuff was posted while I was away.

Anyways regarding apex 2012, I would love to go, you should challenge xX1337Sn1PeZaSsAsS1nXx, I heard he challenged Seibrik to 100$ DDD ditto and got refused.

And why are you all hating on Doc King lol.

Doc King, as a dedicated D3 Main who has very good tech skill
(Free Pull,Upair string, Wario's dthrow cg, SNL, discoverd tire lock, qac lock, ZSS dsmash lock etc.)
(No custom controls either)

I would love to learn more about these slope infinites, as I have a very good Yoshi in my region and I think it would work on him.

 

[Laem]

I think we all know we hate on d3 just to piss you off, doc.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

DDD isn't viable. He has way too many bad match ups. In my opinion though, he is one of the best secondaries in the game. He has some of the best match ups against mid and lower tier characters.

 

[Chuee]

1) If ur *****ing at me to do the air release bull****, then why don't you practice the Wario slope infinite on Halberd and Frigate?

Honestly Doc King, you're one of the most hypocritical idiots I've ever come across on these boards in about 3 years. You come in here asking for people to provide proof of Bowser/Yoshi's Uairs out of GR, which I may add is a MU that happens practically never in tournament scene between two good players, yet you try to shove down our throats these so called slope infinites and dash super pivot grab uber awesome infinites. Yet when we ask you for examples of these done in a tournament setting you give us none and say stupid **** like urr hurr ICs can perfect their infinites then D3 might too. Then after playing in training mode for 5 hours you FINALLY manage to perform your stupid Yoshi infinite 1 time and freak the **** out and run around your house screaming, then upload it thinking you're going to advance the D3 metagame and win a ****ing Nobel Prize. Then we tell you being able to do it 1 time doesn't show us consistency, which is what needs to be shown in order for this to even be taken seriously at all. Then you come up with the most clever idea ever and tell you managed to do it TWICE in an entire match......BUT, not consecutively. It's funny Doc King, it really is. You get all pissy and **** when people talk about a free Uair from an air release, which is leagues easier than you're silly infinites, but try and act like your slope junk is much more credible and should be taken much seriously.

 

[| Big D |]

He beats Marth, Snake, and goes even with Diddy though.

 

[Luigi player]

He also beats MK 100:0.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Honestly Doc King, you're one of the most hypocritical idiots I've ever come across on these boards in about 3 years. You come in here asking for people to provide proof of Bowser/Yoshi's Uairs out of GR, which I may add is a MU that happens practically never in tournament scene between two good players, yet you try to shove down our throats these so called slope infinites and dash super pivot grab uber awesome infinites. Yet when we ask you for examples of these done in a tournament setting you give us none and say stupid **** like urr hurr ICs can perfect their infinites then D3 might too. Then after playing in training mode for 5 hours you FINALLY manage to perform your stupid Yoshi infinite 1 time and freak the **** out and run around your house screaming, then upload it thinking you're going to advance the D3 metagame and win a ****ing Nobel Prize. Then we tell you being able to do it 1 time doesn't show us consistency, which is what needs to be shown in order for this to even be taken seriously at all. Then you come up with the most clever idea ever and tell you managed to do it TWICE in an entire match......BUT, not consecutively. It's funny Doc King, it really is. You get all pissy and **** when people talk about a free Uair from an air release, which is leagues easier than you're silly infinites, but try and act like your slope junk is much more credible and should be taken much seriously.

FYI: The infinite is definitely doable and easier than ICs infinites, as Aerodrome stated earlier in the thread after testing it frame by frame.

 

[1PokeMastr]

FYI: The infinite is definitely doable and easier than ICs infinites, as Aerodrome stated earlier in the thread after testing it frame by frame.

I.C infinite is easier than any Advanced Technique I have tried.
If I could de-sync or handle Ice Climbers, I'd play them.

Edit:

It may be easy for me, but, it feels much easier than trying that Dash Dance Pivot Grab.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Same with the Yoshi infinite. Just watch this and stfu. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YunQ5gxogJg

Hey guys, everyone beats Diddy Kong because they can all infinite him with his own banana, Im posting a video showing it so obv my logic is perfect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PtgxWlm9S0

The only problem is that there's like 40 other characters. How much do the other characters make?

If a character can place in a national, they're viable. Maybe not as viable as MK, but still viable.

So ur saying that D3 mains are trash? You guys can't even give me a ****ing video. You have to be a ****ing hypocrite for critisizing me for theorycrafting. Fluttershy does that bs all the ****ing time.

Lol, D3 mains aren't trash, one of my best friends mains D3. Im saying that your infinite isn't very realistic in the view of changing that MU.

I will ask this one more time, WHO THE **** DOES THE AIR RELEASE BULL ****!? Also, it doesn't matter since it's on a ****ty character called puff. And if ur saying Yoshi is a good character, then guess what? D3 gets another solid top/high tier matchup where D3 mains will actually practice the grab. If Yoshi really was good, D3 mains would do this **** day and night.

If you'd like I can make you a simple video showing you how to do the air release > uair with Yoshi on Jiggs so you stop whining about it.

Good for you, I was able to do the Yoshi infinite about 5 times in a row before.

Do it in an actual match against another person and do it consistently, then we'll all admit it's good.

 

[| Big D |]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW8PcfwTEdg

I mean it's so obvious.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

What? The air release is guaranteed doc. Wtf. Just ask Mink.

This is a travesty and is the truth.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

How does every discussion always end up changing into a D3 topic