Norcal/Bay Area/DBR:NorCal Nevers: Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.

[Afro Justin]

I see the potential benefit of the Swiss system, especially if we were to start with some round robins. That'd essentially be doing pools. It's just that that would take a REALLY long time, wouldn't it?

 

[froz3ntear]

Swiss is also a very well known tournement type, and we already did drift which was a nice experiment, (that ran extra smooth scamp ^^) but I do see some variation and differences in swiss that may turn up better results, in any case, we won't know until we try, and no matter what, its going to give players more rounds to play. The point of these biweeklies are to improve norcal's skill as a whole right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_system_tournament

Swiss has clear guidelines, so I see it running smoothly... can't wait if it actually happens... no one gets knocked out also (since its not a knockout style tournement). Fun for everyone!

Of course people will have different opinions about "accuracy." If it deviates too much from what we see in the normal biweekly brackets, people will cry inaccuracy simply because it's different, not realizing that accuracy and precision are 2 independent and unrelated quantities ^_~

I don't see how it could be less accurate than double elimination. The more rounds there are of people playing each other with the same record, the more accurate its going to be. Those people who cry inaccuracy would just be silly... I mean... people aren't afraid of playing against more than the usual people are they... hahaha.

Yay for swiss... That was a good informative detailed post also +. Its up to everyone to choose the best system anyhow, but it doesnt hurt to experiment. It has my vote to try it out for atleast one biweekly though.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I see the potential benefit of the Swiss system, especially if we were to start with some round robins. That'd essentially be doing pools. It's just that that would take a REALLY long time, wouldn't it?

As you may recall, a good part of time in DRIFT was spent figuring out matchups (just by virtue of the system). Since Swiss doesn't have presupposed knowledge about overall skill, that will take out one element of complexity in figuring out each round.

There is even another way to reduce time spent on organization. This applies only to the system where initial round robins are used:

After pools, the first round can be set up according to the standings after the NEXT TO LAST round in the round robin, so that the organizers can have the matches set up by the time the last round is done. The last round still counts, but is taken into consideration when the 2nd round of Swiss begins.

By the way, Wiki tells me that this system is often used in Scrabble tournaments, and goes by various names, including "modified Swiss," "Portland Swiss," "Fontes Swiss," and "speed pairing" (not to be confused with accelerated pairing, which is another form of Swiss, one that does require seeding, but separates the very top and very bottom ranks more quickly in tournies with a very large number of people).

If anything, DRIFT is most similar to a system called "McMahon Swiss."

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Also, just to make this clear, I will assume full responsibility for running this tournament should we decide to do it, though I will need at least 2 other people to help me out in order for this sheezy to run smoothly.

If it goes well, I think we could attract a lot of people to a large future NCT2 Blue replacement NorCal tourney with this system.

 

[Afro Justin]

And when might this blue replacement be?

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I meant hypothetically. But I'd want to make the announcement at least 2 months in advance. Spring break? Dunno.

 

[ShadowBTZO]

Also, just to make this clear, I will assume full responsibility for running this tournament should we decide to do it, though I will need at least 2 other people to help me out in order for this sheezy to run smoothly.

If it goes well, I think we could attract a lot of people to a large future NCT2 Blue replacement NorCal tourney with this system.

Of course I'm willing to help out any way I can with it, as usual. I'm not too familiar with the Swiss system though, considering that I've never used it in any of my tournaments (even before smash), but from your post I feel I understand the concept enough to be of assistance ;D.

As for using Swiss for a large scale tournament, I don't think so. I feel that the typical pools with a few people advancing into brackets works best on very big tournaments. I suppose if there wasn't a large turnout it could be done, but I think it would take far too long with 100+ people. Also I know people are much more comfortable with pools rather than the Swiss system based on history, but considering that I don't know too much about Swiss then I should wait until after the biweekly to give my opinion (kind of made this whole paragraph useless but get over it haha).

 

[Raves]

so yea... too much reading... T_T lol. something about swiss system and drift... drift was cool. i tink we should try swiss too. it'd be fun. more matches ftw.

anyway... blue verison is during spring break now? how come it got pushed back so far?

 

[Zoap]

while this is all very fascinating i must ponder wat i want for christmas besides a wii : / i just dont know guys i just dont know

 

[Zodiak-Lucien]

while this is all very fascinating i must ponder wat i want for christmas besides a wii : / i just dont know guys i just dont know

how about a suit made entirely out of prime numbers?

 

[Scamp]

We could always run a triple-elimination system!


Anyway, the only thing that concerns me is the random drawing. Say Lunin and SS have to play each other in the first round. One of them will lose and beast on one unfortunate person who's 0-1, and then one unfortunate person who's 1-1, before beating on respectable 2-1 people.

It's not that different than a bad losers bracket in a DE system, but confidence is a powerful thing.


Anyway, I haven't played chess in a while but since everyone has a ranking in that here's what you did for tournaments in that game. You take the entire field (or the people with the same record in later rounds) and basically put them into two groups. A top half and a bottom half. If you had 16 people you'd have 1-8 in one group and 9-16 in the other. Then you line them up top to bottom and play the matches that way. That is, 1 plays 9, 2 plays 10, and so on.

That's the basic system. And if people would repeat then you'd adjust is as best you can, pulling people from one higher or one lower record level if needed.

Of course in chess there are other factors such as ties and who's played what color. Don't ever run a swiss chess tourney.


Oh and by the way DRIFT stats shouldn't be considered just from the last tourney. Some people got more matches because I added them in tourney, and I also had to make some other last minute changes during the tourney as well. The next one should be even smoother!

 

[froz3ntear]

We could always run a triple-elimination system!


Anyway, the only thing that concerns me is the random drawing. Say Lunin and SS have to play each other in the first round. One of them will lose and beast on one unfortunate person who's 0-1, and then one unfortunate person who's 1-1, before beating on respectable 2-1 people.

It's not that different than a bad losers bracket in a DE system, but confidence is a powerful thing.

I think its atleast an improvement from the DE system though, people can get more rounds in espcially people who would've been knocked out so everyone's happy, and it sucks to get knocked out 0-2 and have that be your only tournement experience, but even if you do get a bad doubles bracket and there wouldve been 8 rounds or something, you could still go 6-2 and make the top 8 bracket... so even though luck is still a factor, atleast the more rounds balance out bad luck.

I'd say drift was a success though, but it's always nice to have play different tournement formats... Also it's a chance to play other people i've never played before... cause there are still a lot of people I've yet to play in a tourney match haha.

Plus... i just want to play more =(... more rounds = happy.

 

[MyKo]

WTF is blue version..geesh why is it pokemon color.

make it like...throw it in as NCT3 or abcd gfeafsa dsasdf

LOLO man wtf oooooh......i wana go....wait.....ugh...MS SHOULD BE THERE!!! YAYY HAHA^^

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Hey guys. I need to move out of the central valley already, it sucks here way too much. It's a dead end completely.

So, does anybody have any ideas? Can anybody help me find a job before I move to Norcal? Lol, I'm dead serious here. I need some help. I'm rotting away here in the central valley and I need to get out.

Sheridan, you're a smart fellow. Think of something I can do!

Maybe there's a college I can go to there? I don't have the credentials to go to a University, so it'd have to be some other kind of school that maybe provides housing?

Unless somebody needs a roommate. In which case, I'd have to find a job right when I move there. Also, I don't currently have a car lol. Maybe some nice person will let me live with them until I can get on my feet? Maybe??

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Bane:

Student loan perhaps. Community colleges are FTW. Find something you like to do and do it. Chances are if you like doing something you're good at it, and if you're good at something chances are you can get paid to do it. Or perhaps I'm completely misguided, who knows. All I know is I like to do math and I get paid to do it. But before you decide you're going to college you have to figure out why you're doing that. You CAN use college as a placeholder until you figure that out, but I think that's an expensive way to buy time.

Everyone who misread what I wrote about NCT2 Blue:

I called it the NCT2 Blue REPLACEMENT.

I also ended the phrase "Spring Break" with a question mark.

Nobody knows anything about anything.

Chill.

Hey guys what does this smiley mean:

One time I had my eyeball licked.

 

[EnigmaticCam]

If you guys do a swiss system (or any similar system), save the brackets and I can assign skill ratings like in chess

 

[Raves]

we should change the name of nct2 blue to.... GREEN VERISON!

anyways, i thought king was looking into a place for it? or dbr was gonna run it or something? not quite sure. T_T

 

[ender]

No. nothing is going to happen ever unless someone makes it happen. Dont depend on other people to do it for you. right now no one is actively looking for tourney venues to my knowledge. I'm not complaining though, because if I really wanted it to happen, I would make it happen. Just letting everyone know how things work.

 

[Tomi-X]

Only stating what I heard, which was that DBR and NintendoKing were looking for venues and were at the moment unable to find them...this was about a month ago when us Sacramentians went to Stockton to smash with FTA...

 

[MyKo]

by the time this tourney or whatever comes out..wooo..Brawl or whatever? wait..somewhere in 2k7..but whatever ^^

 

[Serendipity]

Bane:

Student loan perhaps. Community colleges are FTW. Find something you like to do and do it. Chances are if you like doing something you're good at it, and if you're good at something chances are you can get paid to do it. Or perhaps I'm completely misguided, who knows. All I know is I like to do math and I get paid to do it. But before you decide you're going to college you have to figure out why you're doing that. You CAN use college as a placeholder until you figure that out, but I think that's an expensive way to buy time.

Everyone who misread what I wrote about NCT2 Blue:

I called it the NCT2 Blue REPLACEMENT.

I also ended the phrase "Spring Break" with a question mark.

Nobody knows anything about anything.

Chill.

Hey guys what does this smiley mean:

One time I had my eyeball licked.

I hate you Sheridan...i cant do math for anything

I dont have money but can u help me anyway?

LOL the smiley!!! ahhahahaha hella random!

HAHAHAHA wat the hell? Sheridan u crack me up man...



Should i get Harvest Moon Ds? Sumone cheer for Harvest moon!

 

[SuperRad]

Anyone ever heard the "song" Jennifer by Pig Destroyer?
Thats what the smiley is for...

 

[Ian]

so frotaz are you happy about the tree expantions? Pally is now a god in pvp =o

 

[SuperRad]

so frotaz are you happy about the expantions? Pally is now a god in pvp =o

****kk
my shadow priest is underpowered in group pvp. pallys, hunters, warlocks are all so dumb. although im loving being 51 shadow XD

i need better gear still, just got my Warlord's helm from the new pvp system.

what server do y'all play on?

(Stormscale, Horde, Priest - Holis for me)


EDIT:
so i havent been working on sigs much, still have MCC's barely started and one other I'm working on for a friend of a friend. Still keep any requests coming.

EDITx2:
Do any of the Deep NorCal people play other times besides just at Biweeklies/Sac tourneys? I havent been able to play against anyone except one of my friends since NCT2, it would be nice to get some more practice in.

 

[ShadowBTZO]

EDITx2:
Do any of the Deep NorCal people play other times besides just at Biweeklies/Sac tourneys? I havent been able to play against anyone except one of my friends since NCT2, it would be nice to get some more practice in.

Uh...drive to Salinas? LOL, but I can't really play any of them until weekends cuz I have school (last day friday XD) and no car =/ They might though, but Sheridan is in Novato right now, and Frotaz is even farther from you than I am xP. The closest people to you are Foxroar, Mikkuz, PHD and ProdigyKid I think =D.

 

[SuperRad]

Uh...drive to Salinas? LOL, but I can't really play any of them until weekends cuz I have school (last day friday XD) and no car =/ They might though, but Sheridan is in Novato right now, and Frotaz is even farther from you than I am xP. The closest people to you are Foxroar, Mikkuz, PHD and ProdigyKid I think =D.

i forgot that people were going away for winter break ><

and salinas is far haha
and i dont drive ><

where does foxroar live? in santa cruz?

 

[ShadowBTZO]

i forgot that people were going away for winter break ><

and salinas is far haha
and i dont drive ><

where does foxroar live? in santa cruz?

Aptos, might as well be Santa Cruz XD

 

[SuperRad]

Aptos, might as well be Santa Cruz XD

haha yeah


well alright. any of the UCSC guys that are going to be in santa cruz over winter break or would want to come to a smashfest in santa cruz lemme know. I'm gonna try to get my friend to do something at his house if he can.


EDIT:
I was watching some matches from the hub, and I thought about something:
Do we play by the MLG rules at biweeklies when it comes to stage banning? (IE: no banning neutrals, one reset per player/team, etc?) or do we play with a more classic style of rules where you just ban the one stage you want?

 

[Ian]

i need better gear still, just got my Warlord's helm from the new pvp system.

I ****ing hate you

just kidding I don't
but GOD **** I sold my 60 warrior becuase I thought wow was getting dumb and I would never get GM gear then 2 weeks later they release this total bull ****!!

frotaz you have two pally accounts don't you?...wanna gimmy one if it's a human for...uhm collecters edition of burning crusade? I have both CE and normal

Edit I have them preordered**

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I can help you with mathly stuffs Yen, I'd be happy to.

I play on Black Dragonflight with Captain Boh-back and King. I have a 60 Priest, 41/10/0 aka Priest Tank. I also have a 60 Rogue on Ner'Zhul that I don't play very much.

 

[MyKo]

Ebay'em. lol

 

[rJee]

Is there a biweekly this saturday (16)? or next week?

 

[whiteboyninja]

i would be VERY supprised if there is going to be a san jose biweekly saturday. MAYBE next week, we'll see what happens.

im tossing around the idea of hopping up to sac, we'll see...its a long drive >_<

 

[SuperRad]

i would be VERY supprised if there is going to be a san jose biweekly saturday. MAYBE next week, we'll see what happens.

im tossing around the idea of hopping up to sac, we'll see...its a long drive >_<

god im hoping theres one next week

and sac is too far away.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Not being allowed to ban neutral stages is the worst rule MLG has ever implemented. I would sure hope all non-MLG tournaments recognize this major flaw and remove it from their rules.. Without banning of neutral stages, Falco always has like a free win on FD. Marth always has YS. And peach/samus/jiggs always have DL.

Doesn't everybody agree? Lol.

Anywho, I'm preparing my triumphant return to norcal as we speak...

It's been over a year since I've played in a norcal tournament (NCT1, back in 2k5).

It's been since February 2k5 since I moved from Daly City to the central valley.

But it will be less than a few months when I return.....

Lol, Can't wait. Norcal smash is the best ^_^

 

[Scamp]

MLG is slightly different than normal tournies. You can't ban a neutral but it's still 3/5. So even if one stage is unbeatable you still have to lose two more times instead of just one.

There's a lot of debate about just how "free" Falco's win is on FD. And pros seem to think Sheik and Fox can handle Marth just fine on YS. Everyone else gets ***** though, I guess.

And no one likes DL. It should be banned from every tourney.

 

[froz3ntear]

Not being allowed to ban neutral stages is the worst rule MLG has ever implemented. I would sure hope all non-MLG tournaments recognize this major flaw and remove it from their rules.. Without banning of neutral stages, Falco always has like a free win on FD. Marth always has YS. And peach/samus/jiggs always have DL.

Doesn't everybody agree? Lol.

Anywho, I'm preparing my triumphant return to norcal as we speak...

It's been over a year since I've played in a norcal tournament (NCT1, back in 2k5).

It's been since February 2k5 since I moved from Daly City to the central valley.

But it will be less than a few months when I return.....

Lol, Can't wait. Norcal smash is the best ^_^

Mlg has a nice counter measure though... like these rules

2. The stage for Game 1 will be selected at random unless both players/teams can agree on a stage. After the stage has been randomly selected each player/team may call for a reset.

9. No stage may be used twice in a Best of 3 or Best of 5 Series. The random select stages are the only stages that may be used more than once in a Best of 9 or Best of 11 series.

I sort of like not banning neutral stages though I don't mind either way..., but I REALLY like the reset rule.

On a side note... I was reading other tournement rules and I like the rule that you ban stages only after first round, that way you can see what character the other person uses beforehand instead of having to rely on knowing it before the set... or watching their previous matches to make decisions... It seems fair for everyone.

 

[MyKo]

funny if NCB happened once more for this month.

i'd be surprised.

 

[rJee]

well it should so i can play after a few months of not.

 

[HarryPooter]

well it should .

QFT


@SuperRad:

I play as Frodlawner (60 UD Rogue, name used to be HarryPooter but it got changed T_T) or Chaoswarrior or chaoswarlock on stormscale, but i've never seen you around.. whisper/pm/aim me if you feel like it. also it's not always me playing the chars.. so yea