Noir's Advance Technique/Reseach and Discussion.

[PanzerOceania]

I question for those with the game in levels like Delfino Plaza that have water segments in them I'd like to ask a few questions about how characters operate in the water.

1. do characters simply float
2. if you try to attack while in water what happens? nothing? aerial attacks?
3. can you sink, or be forced down into a KO?

I know 99.9% of the time it's not going to matter, but it's part of the game and I'm just trying to figure it out.

 

[Niko_K]

Alright well its 3am here and I have school at 8...I feel like I've helped out the community enough for tonight...but tomorrow is another dayyy

 

[dragon93]

http://www.brawlcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=76&p=96848
I found these 3 new kinda advanced techniques on this page = D
They are:
Infinite Shine
PK Fire Waveland
Air Momentum Cancel

 

[Niko_K]

That has been posted several times already and that video was created by our crew.

More updates later today.

 

[Yoshistar64]

You know Pikachu's Super Wavedash in Melee (Jump, Agility Down then left or right)? Does it still have huge lag in Brawl?

Also, what happens if you do an aerial after a fast fall?

 

[Niko_K]

You can fast fall either before or after an aerial and it will auto cancel lag...I can post video confirmation later today if someone needs it.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

A possible alternative to JC + grab would be running shield + A. Assuming running shield is still in... could you test this one out?

 

[WastingPenguins]

Okay, wtf at the Snake grab-recovery ****. That seems totally broken and actually managed to make me kind of depressed about the game. Seems like Snake basically has no chance of every up+Bing to the ledge if his opponent is near there. Doesn't seem hard to do at all.

 

[Xanderous]

I question for those with the game in levels like Delfino Plaza that have water segments in them I'd like to ask a few questions about how characters operate in the water.

1. do characters simply float
2. if you try to attack while in water what happens? nothing? aerial attacks?
3. can you sink, or be forced down into a KO?

I know 99.9% of the time it's not going to matter, but it's part of the game and I'm just trying to figure it out.

1)They float and have a unique swimming animation if you move side to side.

2) You can still send players downward while they are swimming and otherwise attack them.

3) I hit a Marth downward in the Wind Waker stage and he didn't come up for a few seconds, but there was no KO. I'm assuming I didn't hit him down far enough.

 

[Mike87]

Luigi's taunt has alot more knock back this time.

 

[Phyvo]

Glide throw is more or less a use of the game's throwing mechanic. Shield + attack is throw item. Your original glide throw is more or less a dash attack from the standing position. Your Reverse Glide Throw actually looks useful. But any character should be able to use these same techniques with a throwable item, not just Peach.

As far as the original glide throw being "just" a dash attack, I don't think so. It looks to me like the forward glide throw has at least some possibilities for interrupting your opponent's attack while allowing for you to follow up with another attack, as a sort of combo. Nothing game breaking, maybe, but still something important.

 

[Blatherskite]

You can fast fall either before or after an aerial and it will auto cancel lag...I can post video confirmation later today if someone needs it.

Video of this

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

You can fast fall either before or after an aerial and it will auto cancel lag...I can post video confirmation later today if someone needs it.

this might be a really turning point for brawl.. show us everything.

 

[Zenjamin]

You can fast fall either before or after an aerial and it will auto cancel lag...I can post video confirmation later today if someone needs it.

I suspect this is a troll post, we have already seen plenty of Vids of completive matches with FastFalled aerials... nothing.

I question for those with the game in levels like Delfino Plaza that have water segments in them I'd like to ask a few questions about how characters operate in the water.

1. do characters simply float
2. if you try to attack while in water what happens? nothing? aerial attacks?
3. can you sink, or be forced down into a KO?

I know 99.9% of the time it's not going to matter, but it's part of the game and I'm just trying to figure it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLNn6YUe2r8

 

[Phyvo]

You can fast fall either before or after an aerial and it will auto cancel lag...I can post video confirmation later today if someone needs it.

The vid better be with Ganondorf and his f-air, or something similarly incredible on the lag scale. We already know that some characters have hardly any lag on some of their moves in the first place, like Kirby and his b-air...

Zenj, I would agree with the troll thing except that Niko_K has been posting the glide cancel vids. I think it's more likely that it's a mistake unless his vid "confirmation" proves otherwise.

 

[PanzerOceania]

that's just hard to believe though, at worst I think Niko is mistaken, he wouldn't lie.

 

[F@lc0-san]

I've already sent you a PM OoNoiRoO about that new grabbing property, please try it out if you have the time

(BTW are you Donkey Shows brother?)

 

[err]

yea there is certainly a great feature to the game that allows a turn-around grab as well as that turn-around back-aerials

this system needs some mass exploration. enjoy Noir!

 

[tect]

i still don't understand the turn-around grab. well, at least, it's true applications i.e. what makes it so special
anyone fill me in?

edit: also, if would believe anything niko_k has to say. so if his claim that FF cancel aerial lag, it must be a mistake on his part.

also while not an AT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd0BokZct2s&feature=user
@ 2:41 -- phantom hit? or could grabs have some sort of anti-flinch?

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^It lets you grab behind you. Stuff like that is really usefull for mindgames.

 

[tect]

wasn't that sort of in melee too? but less controllab=le?
ok, that makes sense i guess. but how do you do it?

 

[Phyvo]

Umm, the only thing I saw happen there was that Marth grabbed Luigi. Forwards. From the standing position.

Dunno what the flash was.

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

I think techniques should be named what they are. ROLL TOSS. There's no gliding in it. Maybe sliding, but if someone sees the term "roll toss" they can pretty much guess how to do it simply from the name.

This is the same reason I think nothing in brawl should be called any kind of wavedash, or waveland, because the cause is totally different than it was in melee. Reusing old terms with new techniques just adds unnecessary confusion.

However, I believe the RAR is an exception. Reverse Aerial Rush? That's getting a little grandiose, isn't it? Plus, it's awkward to say out loud. Rar. R-A-R. I did a rar to bair. It just doesn't sound good.

I submit: the Fosbury Rush. It's basically the same thing as the Fosbury Flop, but in brawl, you'll probably be attacking, like so.


Also, unrelatedly, in the video in tect's post, I noticed that powershields seem to be much louder and more noticeable. I'd like to know more about powershielding. The timing can easily be tested if unpausing with buttons pressed still causes all characters to do those button inputs.

 

[OoNoiRoO]

(BTW are you Donkey Shows brother?)

Yes, I am.

I'll get to other questions and testing results in a bit.

 

[Libomasus]

However, I believe the RAR is an exception. Reverse Aerial Rush? That's getting a little grandiose, isn't it? Plus, it's awkward to say out loud. Rar. R-A-R. I did a rar to bair. It just doesn't sound good.

More like "I just got RAR'ed to death!"

 

[Niko_K]

Roll Toss is definitely a good name. SuperDoodleMan to the rescue!

 

[Phyvo]

So, Niko, where's this video confirmation of a lag cancel of which you spoke? Or were you mistaken?

 

[tect]

"Umm, the only thing I saw happen there was that Marth grabbed Luigi. Forwards. From the standing position.

Dunno what the flash was."

( sorry, screwed up the reply >_< )

if you look closely, marth takes damage from luigi's attack, but still manages to grab him

 

[WastingPenguins]

I'm gonna say he was just playing with a low-lag character and he's just mistaken. I would love to be proven wrong but for now I'll give it about a... 0% chance of being true, honestly. Niko?

 

[Niko_K]

So, Niko, where's this video confirmation of a lag cancel of which you spoke? Or were you mistaken?

I was definitely mistaken, but I did figure out how to cancel the air dodge animation with peach

also air dodge into roll toss

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTxAhvzBDZk

 

[DBurke]

I was definitely mistaken, but I did figure out how to cancel the air dodge animation with peach

also air dodge into roll toss

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTxAhvzBDZk

Cancel the air dodge by landing? lolz?

 

[Itakio]

Lately I've been wondering what happens if Ivysaur tries to use his tether recovery when there's an opponent on the ledge (ideally he would be invincible), and if he can use it, what happens when he presses the button to come up? In the videos I've seen, Ivysaur just sort of teleports up to the ledge, but what if he can't grab it?

Also, is it possible for Falco to shoot three lasers in a short hop, or is two the maximum?

 

[Niko_K]

Cancel the air dodge by landing? lolz?

Ha, Im not that big of a noob, I meant cancel the air dodge animation while in the air while throwing a turnip.

 

[WastingPenguins]

Lately I've been wondering what happens if Ivysaur tries to use his tether recovery when there's an opponent on the ledge (ideally he would be invincible), and if he can use it, what happens when he presses the button to come up? In the videos I've seen, Ivysaur just sort of teleports up to the ledge, but what if he can't grab it?

Also, is it possible for Falco to shoot three lasers in a short hop, or is two the maximum?

I could be wrong, but I distinctly remember someone talking about how ZSS gets edgehogged easily with her grapple recovery, meaning you simply can't grapple when someone is on the edge. I'm guessing Ivysaur is the same? Don't trust me though, I don't have the game.

 

[DBurke]

Lately I've been wondering what happens if Ivysaur tries to use his tether recovery when there's an opponent on the ledge (ideally he would be invincible), and if he can use it, what happens when he presses the button to come up? In the videos I've seen, Ivysaur just sort of teleports up to the ledge, but what if he can't grab it?

Also, is it possible for Falco to shoot three lasers in a short hop, or is two the maximum?

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141173 Covers some ideas about tether recovery, but it's more targeted towards Olimar.

Ha, Im not that big of a noob, I meant cancel the air dodge animation while in the air while throwing a turnip.

But you didn't throw the turnip until you were in the roll. The air dodge animation didn't look like it ended until you landed. Am I missing something?

 

[Niko_K]

I was talking about a different technique. It is an air dodge and an immediate cancel by turnip throw, I found just now it also works with a Turnip Drop. Could be quite useful for bombombs...

EDIT: Air Dodge Turnip Drop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ByPwv8XydE

Dont mind the distorted sound.

Also heres something I'm questioning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=093wEwNIKfc

and did anyone find out if peaches turnips do special damage when dropped?

 

[Proven]

Niko K, please go and try another character just to confirm for me that this is nothing special to Peach and shouldn't be named after turnips. It just looks like you're finding slight exploits in the item throwing code.

 

[Niko_K]

Confirmed Links bombs work for Air Dodge Item Drop.
Confirmed Zamus Armor

Any other requests?

 

[DBurke]

I was talking about a different technique. It is an air dodge and an immediate cancel by turnip throw, I found just now it also works with a Turnip Drop. Could be quite useful for bombombs...

EDIT: Air Dodge Turnip Drop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ByPwv8XydE

Dont mind the distorted sound.

Also heres something I'm questioning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=093wEwNIKfc

and did anyone find out if peaches turnips do special damage when dropped?

So all you're saying is that when in an air dodge Peach can throw turnips and it cancels the air dodge animation or do you have to do something else?

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Confirmed Links bombs work for Air Dodge Item Drop.

Any other requests?

Just a complete list of who can and can't do the... whatever we're calling it... "Rolling Toss Slide" by themselves. (No outside items other than what they can produce themselves.)