NJ Finder - Tournament Finder Updated (10/8) See new thread for Brawl Rankings

[Inui]

JFox can be a panelist, since Triad seems to not care anymore and WoZ wants to just supervise stuff.

We didn't realize WoZ wasn't active anymore because we still saw him at every tournament. It was an honest mistake, really. Our bad?

And Ryoko didn't enter singles except at the Low Tier biweekly, which doesn't count as a normal singles event. He only had Pound 2. In fact, he purposely avoids entering singles so he won't be ranked and he does not like risking the money.

Zang stated he has absolutely no intention on making a return to the Smash scene any time soon, so I didn't even bother looking for Guantlet results since February to find him or anything like that.

 

[CBNJ]

When is the next tournament in Jersey? I want to do one, see how bad I get owned. My Ness needs to attempt to win a match, lol.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

There's a tournament at Cheezit's on the 30th, and then Smashacre on July 7th.

 

[JFox]

Inui, it shoudn't matter if he says he is inactive. All the panelists should pay attention to are tournament activity. If he has enough activity to qualify him, he should be on the list. Whether or not he will continue to go to tournaments, or be on the next list, should not be of your concern.

CBNJ check the first post of the first page. There is a whole section titled "Tournaments" where you will find all upcoming NJ tournaments, with links to their threads.

 

[CBNJ]

K, thanks guys. I'll check it out.

 

[Inui]

Uh, at any rate, he hasn't entered two events in the past two months, which was a listed requirement...lol.

hey, i mean, it's cool being zang fanboys(everyone in this state is, including myself) but he aint gonna be ranked b/c he needs to exist first, so sry

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Inui, it's not even about that - you're missing the point.

A player wanting to be on the list or not is irrelevant, whether it's Zang, myself, or some other player.

 

[Reik]

Uh, at any rate, he hasn't entered two events in the past two months, which was a listed requirement...lol.y

Erm, I thought the current list was based off everything from Mid-February till Pound 2. If it's based off the two-month thing then we need to redo the list and take Triad and LK off, right?

 

[Inui]

WoZ, he needs to exist. And he doesn't.

LK entered a tournament at Chu's to save himself from being removed, but I'm not exactly sure about Triad...

 

[pockyD]

2 months kind of came out of nowhere lol

it should just be the whole time between updates; if there are 3 months between updates for some odd reason (weren't there 4 just now anyway?) it's unfair to not count those first two just because of the timing of the rankings

 

[Inui]

Oh, I see your point.

Well, every update from now on is going to be every two months...

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Inui, if he enters a tournament, he obviously exists whether he says so or not.

Understandably, you have your criteria, but for future reference, you don't take people off the list when they say they won't play in the future. The future doesn't concern what the current list is going to be.

Speaking of LK, what NJ tournament has he entered recently?

 

[Inui]

But...Zang entered one tournament only, which is the issue here. So, yeah.

Recently? Nothing comes to mind besides Chu's tournament, but he had at least half a dozen tournaments total since the last list.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

I'm not defending that Zang should be on the list. He shouldn't according to your criteria.

I'm saying that your whole "Zang told me he's not playing anymore so he's not going to be on the list" is moot, since you keep bringing it up.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Who cares? He entered one tourney. Bye bye Zang.

Inui, this is what happens when you try to argue your points. Don't do that. Make a statement and then say end of discussion and move on with authority.

Seriously.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

He's going to have to argue his points. He helped make the list, and people are going to ask him questions/create debates. It's part of the job.

From this point on, the panelists are on the hot spot. To be sure that they handled the process correctly, they should be able to answer every issue without a problem.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Granted, but the Zang thing was getting old.

 

[Eggm]

That was a thorough post EL, good stuff. xD

Edit : 2 posts happened before i posted this...>?

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

It's not really a Zang issue per se. He was just a specific case.

My main point is that no one is an exception to the rule. Players are subjected to the will of the public when it comes to rankings. Whether they like it or not, if they meet the criteria and place well, they are going to be on the list.

In Zang's case, he says he won't be playing anymore. Of course, if the situation was that he went to many tournaments and placed well, saying "He told me he's not playing anymore so he shouldn't be on the list" isn't a valid statement to make, and he'd be on the list anyway. Of course, that isn't the case, and in the end, Zang won't be on the list.

 

[JFox]

Emblem this isn't about Zang or Magus or Velocity, or anyone else. This is about making exceptions where it is inappropriate. This is about pointing out lack of structure in a system.

Magus isn't actually an NJ player, and yet he is the only exception that is being made even though there are a number of Philly players. And why stop at philly, I'm sure there are players all around the border of NJ, and yet the exception is still only made for one person. Magus doesn't deserve special treatment just because he chooses not to enter tournies in his own state. Does that mean that if Magus decides to go to FC he shouldn't be considered an NJ player anymore? Does that even make sense when many NJ players go to outside tournaments? Why is it even necessary that he is on the list? It just complicates things. It doesn't mean he can't still compete here.

Lord Knight has not played in his own state in over two months, and Zang has. Why is the exception made for one player and not the other.

Really all I'm doing is pointing out flaws by using specific players as an example. Those two are really just my strongest points.

It is important to point out flaws in the list in order to ensure that the list is made fairly and in an un-biased fashion. Especially because Inui is in a crew, and his crew mates are on the list. Having a crew mate on the list should not help or hurt placings on a rankings list.

Not that this means he shouldn't be on the panel, but he shouldn't be able to just make the list however he chooses and than not have to justify himself.

 

[Eggm]

So much drama over the list lol, I think the panelists did a great job on it, while i agree with most of what you are posting Jay, you are being SO critical which makes it unfun, Everyone just step up your game for the next couple months and lets get NJ NAaaaasty. xD Plenty of NJ events coming up I personally can't wait.

 

[pockyD]

-_-

i still think this whole "objective" thing is just destined to failure; why not just write a computer program to weight tournament results and have that spit out a list?

imo the idea behind power rankings, multiple panelists from multiple areas, etc is to provide a largely SUBJECTIVE view based on how good people are perceived to be based on actual playing, not on performance (which can be affected by so many things from tournament-to-tournament i.e. matchups, especially if you're only enforcing 2 tournaments every 4 months)

plus it's funner and more interesting to debate that. No point in just always saying "look player A got 5th and player B got 7th" and having case closed because that's the criteria for the rankings; 5th vs. 7th is a very hazy area (if they aren't on the same side of the bracket of course)

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

In regards to being part of a crew if you're on the panel, I suggest only having one person representing from each crew. This makes sure there's a balance and not a shift of power.

It also means JFox and Reik can't be panelists at the same time. It'll have to be one or the other.

pockyd, players more or less like to know where they stand in the state, and looking at things objectively is the most accurate way to do that. That's how sports do things to their rankings as well.

I mean, you can always look at things subjectively and debate things amongst yourselves. But since this is suppose to be something of an official ranking of players in the state, performance is pretty much needed to give the fairest results.

Not that that's out of the way, things usually aren't black and white like "this player get 5th and this player get 7th - case closed." Matchups are often looked at as well, which is why, if we can get it, looking at the bracket itself makes things a whole lot easier.

 

[Eggm]

Yo pocky that was one of the smartest posts i've seen about the list in long time.

 

[Magus420]

If it will make people shut the **** up over something trivial just take me off the stupid list already.

 

[pockyD]

pockyd, players more or less like to know where they stand in the state, and looking at things objectively is the most accurate way to do that. That's how sports do things to their rankings as well..

Here's the thing... for official standings, sure. they go by the cold hard facts, but if you want something comparable to that, it would be a circuit-type system where people accumulate points per tournament

on the other hand, "power rankings" in sports are arbitrary lists made up by journalists and the media based exclusively on how they perceive the teams/players. momentum and recent trends play a huge role in "power rankings", as does future outlook.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Hmm, I suppose so. Despite it being called Power Rankings, I never set my mind that way.

The way it's been handled, power rankings in smash has done its best to actually be as objective as possible. The midwest has a system using a circuit in their region to determine their rankings. While we tried to start such a system, it didn't start off well.

 

[Reik]

It also means JFox and Reik can't be panelists at the same time. It'll have to be one or the other.

I'm totally fine with J taking my place. I never asked to be on the panel actually, lol. Inui just IM'd me one day and was like "You're a panelist now."

I didn't mind though. xD

 

[pockyD]

at any rate, if you are going to exclude the relatively inactives from the list, i'd recommend having a separate section (unordered) of just notable inactive players or something so that outsiders can actually see what big names are from here even if they don't play much anymore

 

[JFox]

i still think this whole "objective" thing is just destined to failure; why not just write a computer program to weight tournament results and have that spit out a list?

I get that its "not fun", and I have no reason to bother trying to dispute that. But what makes "not fun" equal "destined to failure"?

And unfortunately there is no way a computer program could be possible for this. Even if it were as objective as possible, it would be far to subjective for a computer to compute. Things like rating the difficulty between placings aren't possible. Its impossible to eliminate all subjectivity, which is why there will always be some room for debate. But you still want to use as many facts as possible to create a fair and honest system.

If it will make people shut the **** up over something trivial just take me off the stupid list already.

I value you as a person, and a member of the smash community. I would hate for you to think that I am targeting you because I dislike you, or for any other personal reasons. I'm trying to be as un-biased as I can, and I honestly feel that you as an exception to the rule is truly unfair to the rest of the OOS people that play in NJ.

This does not mean that I feel that you shouldn't be on the list, just not that there should be a special exception made for only people that have ties to members of the panel. You just have to see the inequality in it all.

I'm totally fine with J taking my place. I never asked to be on the panel actually, lol. Inui just IM'd me one day and was like "You're a panelist now."

I didn't mind though. xD

Reik I don't know how comfortable I am with taking the spot from you. The thing is, I think you actually want to be a panelist. And I'm pretty sure everyone else wants you to be one as well. I didn't know that we couldn't both be panelists or I would not have said anything.

at any rate, if you are going to exclude the relatively inactives from the list, i'd recommend having a separate section (unordered) of just notable inactive players or something so that outsiders can actually see what big names are from here even if they don't play much anymore

I think thats a really good idea.

 

[pockyD]

anyone else want to go up to bostonish july 28-29 for this and this?

i don't want to go it alone (and i really don't want to drive ), but i do want to go

 

[Inui]

Who else should be ranked in NJ that's OOS? Magus lives basically on the border of the states, and he only plays in NJ, and he plays in NJ frequently and belongs to a crew based in NJ. He might as well be an NJ player. That's why an "exception" was made.

Okay, include this...

Talented players that are unranked due to activity or lack of competing in NJ: RyokoYaksa, Dav3, Zanguzen, WarriorOfZarona

 

[JFox]

What about Comp? And Muz?

 

[Inui]

Comp and Muz deserve mentions, yes.

 

[Keitaro]

The talented mentions idea sounds great. I would place that on the first page if possible.

@NJ Player Finder's current user: I completely changed my smash name from "Rurounikeitaro" to "Keitaro" sometime yesterday. Could you change that on the player list please?

 

[Atomsk_92]

changed my smash name from "Rurounikeitaro" to "Keitaro" sometime yesterday.

LOL love hina won the name battle XD

 

[Keitaro]

LOL love hina won the name battle XD

Yeah, Kenshin sucks now, lol!

Although it was real simple in my mind, just about no-one could pronounce Rurouni Keitaro. It was pissing me off, and people just call me Keitaro anyways. Plus my liscense plate and fitted hat just say Keitaro on it "too cool "

 

[cradmazy_SKAG]

its not easy to consistantly place firsteenth

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

"Roo-Roh-Nee" if you just speak it fluently in english. It's a little different if your pronounce every single Japanese syllable.

What's so hard about that? Seriously.

 

[Inui]

Love Hina is way better. Who cares?