Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
It appears that you are using ad block :'(
Hey, we get it. However this website is run by and for the community... and it needs ads in order to keep running.
Please disable your adblock on Smashboards, or go premium to hide all advertisements and this notice. Alternatively, this ad may have just failed to load. Woops!
In terms of the Doc he is also Slower and has a worse recovery than Mario.
His Side B doesn't give him any extra Air time and his Up B also has more oomph.
Well, he does have the Tornado DownB to add more recovery. Also, you forgot the pills, which have a different trajectory and can't be absorbed.
Dark Pit had the addition of launching People Diagonally upwards with his Side B while Pit launces them straight up.
His B is also different as we all know.
Not gonna lie though I would have loved him to have that Wonderful Up B Pit had in Brawl.
Talking about clones? Here's my two cents on the matter.
- Thanks to the F.L.U.D.D., he's got some slight differences to Mario, making him less of a clone (even if it is only 2 moves). I wished he had a special involving a Virus a la Peach's NeutralB though
While a lot of the moves are technically similar, the properties of those moves are vastly different. I'm guessing the two moves you say are different would be down B and Dair. I'd argue his neutral and up B are different as well. Also, upSmash works very differently as does Fair. When you consider his movement speeds, jump height, KB increase and different sweet spots, Doc plays almost nothing like Mario.
I have no idea what they were thinking with balancing Dr. Mario, he looks like inferior to Mario in just about every way? A lot of the data I've read about him seems really poor. Correct me if I'm wrong on that though.
Aren't clones suppose to have both advantages and disadvantages compared to the base character?
That's exactly what he is. The funny thing about this is that Dr. Mario is actually better in Melee. And they nerfed him so hard, while they buffed Mario to the moon.
Not really, especially as Pit doesn't even use half of the weapon classes in Uprising, Sakurai said something about a character's personality reflecting in their moveset, Dark Pit is actually a completely different character from Pit. Besides, by that logic, Luigi should have stayed a clone as he's almost always been 100% identical to Mario gameplay wise
Hey guys, so I just wanted to give you all a heads up on what I'm planning for Source Gaming. It's still going to be a surprise, but here's my plan in terms of order.
- Unannounced Retrospective Part 1
- Unannounced Retrospective Part 2
I'll give you a little hint, the sources for this article is mostly going to be derived from one heavy source that you guys probably all know about. I think you guys will still enjoy it as it is a major part of Smash History. So, you guys have that to look forward to. As a disclaimer, this is really the first time I'm doing something like this, so it will take some time. I'm also planning something to add on to this retrospective with something pretty cool (If I can contact enough people). My estimate is that the first article might go up this weekend (I'm using that as my due date XD). Hopefully that gives you an insight on what I'm planning! Stay subscribed to sourcegaming.info for the upcoming article!
I have no idea what they were thinking with balancing Dr. Mario, he looks like inferior to Mario in just about every way? A lot of the data I've read about him seems really poor. Correct me if I'm wrong on that though.
Aren't clones suppose to have both advantages and disadvantages compared to the base character?
Some people will disagree, but I'm with you. Doc is in no way balanced. Yeah, he's got a better ledge guarding game than Mario and pills and tornado are great, but he's not that much stronger and the KB increase doesn't tip the scales at all. Couple that with his horrible movement speed (did you know he's slower than DeDeDe?) and no height on jumps and it's easy to see he's not balanced. That said, Doc's very good if you know how to use him. Definitely about reads and spacing (a little luck helps as well).
Not really, especially as Pit doesn't even use half of the weapon classes in Uprising, Sakurai said something about a character's personality reflecting in their moveset, Dark Pit is actually a completely different character from Pit. Besides, by that logic, Luigi should have stayed a clone as he's almost always been 100% identical to Mario gameplay wise
One last post about this roster, to clarify everything:
First of all, my comment on it "Look at all the money Nintendo apparently doesn't want!" was probably a bad choice, but it wasn't meant to be taken seriously AT ALL.
Nintendo wouldn't make a lot more money if they added some of those, than with other popular characters, of course.
I was simply thinking about villains and how they are "misunderstood", or "underrated".
I don't know how to describe it, but villains are a lot more important to games than most people think.
Without Bowser, Mario would still be a simple plumber fighting turtles and crabs in pipes.
Without Ganondorf (etc.), all the Links would just be a usual guys, because they would have never fought against the Evil.
And to see how one villain gets cut and only one villain gets added, while rather many "random" female characters seemed to be added for the simple "we need more females!" reason just, well, annoys me.
(I'm not sexist or anything, I simply use it as an example because people always say "we need more females in Smash!" and "we need more villains in Smash!" about as much.)
In most games it's about the same: "Good VS. Evil"
So the evil side is mostly exactly as important as the good side.
But you can't say "Females are always important, too!"
Simply because everyone can be female.
The main characters-the good side (See: Samus), or the antagonists-the evil side (See: Medusa).
But also, both, the good and the bad side can be female. (See: Samus and Mother Brain)
And so can be both parts be male. (See: Mario and Bowser)
So seeing how random avatars and rather unimportant characters being added, while there are still so many important villains (And others) with unique potential are left, simply disturbs me a little...
But enough of that.
(My criteria weren't "villains", by the way. They were "Villains/Bosses/Antagonists/Rivals/Bullys/etc."...
Actually, I believe I never said, they are only villains... Apparently, some of you just misinterpreted it like that...)
I chose to add Meowth and Mewtwo to this picture to simply have Pokémon on there, without them, it would have looked rather uncompleted.
That's also the reason why Black Knight from FE is there. I have no knowledge about FE but I wanted to have at least one of them on it, simply to have one.
I also have some characters on it, that are not really wanted, but, like I said in another post, I just listed most villains that I could think of.
And some of those could have been nice surprises, from the start.
The picture I made has nothing to do with DLC.
But the most important thing I wanted to say:
Heck, even I don't want them ALL to be in. They would be REALLY too much... for now.
But you can't deny that this would be neat:
(If you don't understand what this is, it's Smash 64's roster replaced with villains. The "Evil 12" to say so.
[Yes, I know, Meowth and Mewtwo aren't evil, they are just to replace Pikachu and Jigglypuff.])
I think sales/legacy is your strongest and most valid point.
There others aren't nearly as strong, especially the last one.
Bayonetta is a witch that uses demonic powers and real world weaponry, including hand guns strapped to stripper shoes, to fight angelic forces. Many of her moves involve her stripping down or summoning demons. This is obviously of concern for many, as it brings in many sexual, religious, and violent images into a ESRB rated E10+ game. Now, I understand that Solid Snake also came from an M rated game… but watch the following video and tell me of a scene in the entire Metal Gear franchise that is comparable:
Those aren't accurate descriptions of Bayonetta or MG. Outside of her handguns/shot guns all of her weapons are fantasy style weapons, most of which are already present in the game (lasers, katanas, snake whip, skates, bows) and even then, her more realistics guns are bedazzled showguns: when was the last time you same someone firing a golden rifle or diamond studded gun? They exist, but there's not for actual use.
And there are only 2 cases where bayonetta gets "naked": intro scene silhouettes and scenematic boss finishers. In actual gameplay she always wears at least a leotard. And calling her shoes "stripper shoes" is very inaccurate. They're high heels; pumps I believe. Can strippers wear them? Yes. But so do business women, and women going to nice restaurants, and models, and pretty much any women that wants to wear a high heel...
The guns just make the look higher
Concerning scenes from MG the only thing it lacks is summoning demons (of course there's no black magic users in smash...) and religion (looks at FE and Mother reps):
Torture, ball squeezing, war crimes, crimes against humanity, plenty of morally questionable motives, dismemberment, actually running around naked, plenty of gun violence, plenty of sword/blade/fist violence, plenty of blood, **** recordings (post brawl), and sexual content/viewing angles in general (laughing octopus comes to mind).
There's a lot of stuff in MG that you just glossed over.
I felt your last point was the weakest. In a list of reason against Bayonetta you're saying that moveset doesnt matter. If it doesnt matter, then it's neither a reason for nor against her; it would simply be a neutral area. But even then, I disagree with you; villager, and maybe Little Mac, missed out on Brawl because Sakurai couldn't figure out a moveset at that time. Can you really imagine Sakurai having difficulty making a moveset for bayonetta? Difficulty in creating a moveset does matter. It's just a question of how much it matters in the grand scheme of things.
That said, even though I support Bayonetta, I doubt she'll get in. Her 3rd party status, legacy/sales status (though not her popularity), and to a lesser extent her sexuality are definitely hurdles to overcome. I just don't believe Sakurai thinks it will be worth the effort in the long run.....I'd love to be proven wrong though.
Dark Pit is his own character, sure, he was cloned from Pit, but character wise, he's much different, he actively avoids doing what Pit does...Until he finds out that he dies if Pit dies. This is even reflected in the game, as if you shoot Dark Pit when he's on your side, he'll shoot you right back
Heck, even I don't want them ALL to be in. They would be REALLY too much... for now.
But you can't deny that this would be neat:
(If you don't understand what this is, it's Smash 64's roster replaced with villains. The "Evil 12" to say so.
[Yes, I know, Meowth and Mewtwo aren't evil, they are just to replace Pikachu and Jigglypuff.])
Actually putting all pretense aside if you want something to take Pikachu's place I'd say use Zubat, since that is the most common used Pokemon by Team Rocket. And Zubat is really misunderstood. Just like Mewtwo
Not really, especially as Pit doesn't even use half of the weapon classes in Uprising, Sakurai said something about a character's personality reflecting in their moveset, Dark Pit is actually a completely different character from Pit. Besides, by that logic, Luigi should have stayed a clone as he's almost always been 100% identical to Mario gameplay wise
Which is why when Luigi wasn't much more than a Mario clone, it was fine. But he's got a lot more source material to work from now than Dark Pit, he's had his own line of extremely successful games, and he's been differentiated a lot more in Smash to reflect that.
Dark Pit being a Pit clone at this point in time is absolutely fine.
His number 1 is odd but the rest of list? ehh. Aside from the Osu! guy, it's pretty straightforward and most of the characters have been requested to at least a decent extent.
Actually putting all pretense aside if you want something to take Pikachu's place I'd say use Zubat, since that is the most common used Pokemon by Team Rocket. And Zubat is really misunderstood. Just like Mewtwo
Well... We shouldn't forget two points:
1. - Zubat would be hard to make a playable fighter in Smash, since it's flying all the time, and we know what Sakurai thinks about it... sometimes...
And 2. - Mewoth is a lot more popular. Even though it's because of the anime, but the same goes for Pikachu and Jigglypuff. I beleive Sakurai even stated that Jigglypuff was chosen because its popularity comeing from the anime. Plus, Mewoth is, thanks to the anime again, always connected to Team Rock in peoples minds, so it probably would make a lot more sense to choose Meowth.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love Zubat in Smash (Even though I can't imagine how), but it'd be odd in multiple ways.
Honestly it isnt that strange and I've seen much worse. The E;lite Beat agents is a little off but Honestly not that bad.
#1 is definitely a little weird but calling it the oddest is definitely way-off It has wonder red so it can't be weird.
It depends on who it is. Maybe if they were worried that a character (EX indies) being a fad maybe they could see how long it would last. Other than that I can't think of a good reason unless they maybe 3rd party liscensing issues.
Which is why when Luigi wasn't much more than a Mario clone, it was fine. But he's got a lot more source material to work from now than Dark Pit, he's had his own line of extremely successful games, and he's been differentiated a lot more in Smash to reflect that.
Dark Pit being a Pit clone at this point in time is absolutely fine.
Burb no offense but this is kinda silly. What if people just prefer the tornado over the FLUDD? Or like having the two differenate a bit more by one having FLUDD and the other don't? Those two were certainly my reasons why I don't really want Dr. Mario with FLUDD, hence me really not comfortable with him being an alt at all.
The "BUT MELEE" is kind of an annoying assumption, I'll be real.
I won't justify people seriously wanting Lucina and Dark Pits to be alts instead of characters though. That **** is really shortsighted and dumb.
Ehhh, on second thought. I think I've entirely misunderstood what you're saying. Feel free to ignore.
Dark Pit could only fly when he had Pandora's powers, he lost them right after she came back. Which is why Viridi or Palutena have to grant him the Power of Flight.
Smash is actually kind of inconsistent about this. In the trailer and in his Entrance Animation, it's implied he still has Pandora's powers. But his Guidance shows that this is after KIU and Viridi has to grant him his powers (which is reflected in his UpB)
Dark Pit could only fly when he had Pandora's powers, he lost them right after she came back. Which is why Viridi or Palutena have to grant him the Power of Flight.
Palutena gave him infinite flight in Uprising. Case and point, Dark Pit's wings glow blue indicating it's Palutena and not Viridi granting him flight, he flies away and he doesn't seem puzzled.
Palutena gave him infinite flight in Uprising. Case and point, Dark Pit's wings glow blue indicating it's Palutena and not Viridi granting him flight, he flies away and he doesn't seem puzzled.
But he doesn't have pandora's infinite flight anymore hence why he nearly fell to his death after scorched feathers. he is now, for all intents and purposes, at the same level as pit. (ignoring stat differences between the silver bow and palutena's bow)
Palutena gave him infinite flight in Uprising. Case and point, Dark Pit's wings glow blue indicating it's Palutena and not Viridi granting him flight, he flies away and he doesn't seem puzzled.
But he doesn't have pandora's infinite flight anymore hence why he nearly fell to his death after scorched feathers. he is now, for all intents and purposes, at the same level as pit. (ignoring stat differences between the silver bow and palutena's bow)
Dark Pit could before Chapter 22. Pit could not (although maybe with the pegasus wings)
Then the ending of Uprising makes no sense, why would Palutena send Dark Pit somewhere else? It's been stated that the Pits aren't capable of controlling their flight paths
Wow, you guys sure post a lot! I started on page like 287~ish at 9am. It's currently 3:28pm and i just caught up. Great articles @PushDustIn on Source Gaming! You always know how to push my "Gematsu was real" button
In terms of the Doc he is also Slower and has a worse recovery than Mario.
