Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

That because there was a heavy reliance on old stuff and even then we still lost several game modes. EIH did cost us it’s that a lot of people didn’t care it’s not the same thing

EiH didn't cost you ****. Any game modes we lost were because Sakurai didn't want them back.

 

[fogbadge]

EiH didn't cost you ****. Any game modes we lost were because Sakurai didn't want them back.

has he ever actually once said that?

 

[Kirbeh]

that’s actually quite narrow minded to think that everyone wants more characters and more characters equals a better game. I’ve certainly encountered people who want a smaller roster so they can have a larger focus on other aspects of the game so they would argue that a smaller roster would make a better game. Wanting no characters cut is still selfish and wanting the game to be the way you want it to be

Pot meet kettle, I guess? Wanting the game to shift one way or the other is biased no matter what side you're on.

Wanting a scaled back roster to give more focus to the rest of the games content is a much more tenable point, but let's not forget that this was the fall back. You're opening/original argument was cutting content simply because you don't like it. Still valid, mind you, you've every right as a fan/consumer, but you'll be hard pressed to find people willing to entertain it.

That because there was a heavy reliance on old stuff and even then we still lost several game modes. EIH did cost us it’s that a lot of people didn’t care it’s not the same thing

Plenty of people do care. You do, Perkilator does, and more than enough people who like EiH still care. I was not satisfied with Ultimate's game feel, online or single player offerings. I'm still going to argue in favor of keeping as much of the roster as possible.

 

[Guynamednelson]

they're here forever.

They would be, but Sakurai knows more about how game development works than your average Smash fan. Which is any amount.

 

[fogbadge]

Pot meet kettle, I guess? Wanting the game to shift one way or the other is biased no matter what side you're on.

That’s my point

 

[Kirbeh]

That’s my point

I'm well aware. I was simply pointing out that you're not going to get anywhere with the argument of "I don't like it, therefore cut." Even if both sides are biased, such a stance is going to inherently feel more selfish.

Cutting to remove what you consider an eyesore vs cutting to make room for something else.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm well aware. I was simply pointing out that you're not going to get anywhere with the argument of "I don't like it, therefore cut." Even if both sides are biased, such a stance is going to inherently feel more selfish.

Cutting to remove what you consider an eyesore vs cutting to make room for something else.

but that’s not what this debate is about. it’s about how both sides are selfish and pretending it isn’t is pointless

 

[Kirbeh]

but that’s not what this debate is about. it’s about how both sides are selfish and pretending it isn’t is pointless

Then we've been arguing different things. I acknowledged both sides as being biased from the outset. I guess that's that then. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[fogbadge]

Then we've been arguing different things. I acknowledged both sides as being biased from the outset. I guess that's that then. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

don’t worry about it

 

[smashkirby]

Changing the subject a bit, do you all think Fitness Boxing will get some content in a future Smash Bros. game? Yeah, I know the series is technically a 3rd party series to Nintendo in a manner similar to stuff like Fatal Frame, but I can't help but ask.

Frankly, I was partially banking on the game's M.C. (well, in a sense), Karen appearing as a Spirit in Ultimate.

 

[Kirbeh]

Changing the subject a bit, do you all think Fitness Boxing will get some content in a future Smash Bros. game? Yeah, I know the series is technically a 3rd party series to Nintendo in a manner similar to stuff like Fatal Frame, but I can't help but ask.

Frankly, I was partially banking on the game's M.C. (well, in a sense), Karen appearing as a Spirit in Ultimate.

Honestly doubt it. At best I could maybe see a spirit or whatever equivalent they have for trophies/spirits next game. Otherwise, they don't really have much in the way of content to offer.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Changing the subject a bit, do you all think Fitness Boxing will get some content in a future Smash Bros. game? Yeah, I know the series is technically a 3rd party series to Nintendo in a manner similar to stuff like Fatal Frame, but I can't help but ask.

Frankly, I was partially banking on the game's M.C. (well, in a sense), Karen appearing as a Spirit in Ultimate.

Finally, Macklemore in Smash

 

[CannonStreak]

Say, I have a little question...

So, basically back in the days of Brawl when it was released, some said that Mewtwo was "replaced" with Lucario, and Roy was "replaced" with Ike.

So, since we are likely getting cuts next Smash Bros. game, here is a question: Do you think there may be character "replacements", and if so, who should be replaced? Or do you think replacements are not a thing or should not be a thing? I would like to know everyone's thoughts on this.

 

[Opossum]

Say, I have a little question...

So, basically back in the days of Brawl when it was released, some said that Mewtwo was "replaced" with Lucario, and Roy was "replaced" with Ike.

So, since we are likely getting cuts next Smash Bros. game, here is a question: Do you think there may be character "replacements", and if so, who should be replaced? Or do you think replacements are not a thing or should not be a thing? I would like to know everyone's thoughts on this.

No, because those characters were never replacements to begin with and such a sentiment was only parroted by people who should have known better.

 

[CannonStreak]

No, because those characters were never replacements to begin with and such a sentiment was only parroted by people who should have known better.

I figured. I would still like to see others' thoughts, but that is why I was asking, and put the words "replaced" and "replacement" in quotation marks to indicate that it was not a real thing.

 

[Noipoi]

Say, I have a little question...

So, basically back in the days of Brawl when it was released, some said that Mewtwo was "replaced" with Lucario, and Roy was "replaced" with Ike.

So, since we are likely getting cuts next Smash Bros. game, here is a question: Do you think there may be character "replacements", and if so, who should be replaced? Or do you think replacements are not a thing or should not be a thing? I would like to know everyone's thoughts on this.

I don't really think Sakurai and the team set out specifically to replace one character with another. I think things just kinda shake out in certain ways.

But also-

I'd bet money that Corrin and Incineroar are gone, and that we're also getting Alear and insert new Pokemon in their place. So maybe I'm just a big fat hypocrite

 

[Speed Weed]

Changing the subject a bit, do you all think Fitness Boxing will get some content in a future Smash Bros. game? Yeah, I know the series is technically a 3rd party series to Nintendo in a manner similar to stuff like Fatal Frame, but I can't help but ask.

Frankly, I was partially banking on the game's M.C. (well, in a sense), Karen appearing as a Spirit in Ultimate.

This is how Kenshiro gets in

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Say, I have a little question...

So, basically back in the days of Brawl when it was released, some said that Mewtwo was "replaced" with Lucario, and Roy was "replaced" with Ike.

So, since we are likely getting cuts next Smash Bros. game, here is a question: Do you think there may be character "replacements", and if so, who should be replaced? Or do you think replacements are not a thing or should not be a thing? I would like to know everyone's thoughts on this.

Though keep in mind the reason for that belief is they had actual similarities in movesets(probably due to using some assets of the previous characters here or there to help make them).

So if we get others, it'd be due to some moveset similarities, even "barely any".

That said, honestly, I can't think of any that are blatantly obvious that could happen. Incineroar being "replaced" by another Pokemon is meaningless alone, unless said Pokemon shares at least a move or more. And I don't know enough about Meowscarada to say anything on it.

(Though if you want to continue with other similarities, Lucario moreso replaces Pichu in the sense of being both Movie Promotional Pokemon, and having a damage gimmick. Pokemon Trainer replaces Mewtwo as an iconic Pokemon with a interesting mechanics that ultimately make them bad in practice. Dr. Mario is a heavy-hitting character like Wario too, and that's all I can think of. Now, interestingly, Lucas was going to replace Ness specifically. Ironically, the only intended one didn't come to pass. It is possible Plusle & Minun(if it was them) was going to replace Pichu, though. But that's pure theory).

 

[Perkilator]

Say, I have a little question...

So, basically back in the days of Brawl when it was released, some said that Mewtwo was "replaced" with Lucario, and Roy was "replaced" with Ike.

So, since we are likely getting cuts next Smash Bros. game, here is a question: Do you think there may be character "replacements", and if so, who should be replaced? Or do you think replacements are not a thing or should not be a thing? I would like to know everyone's thoughts on this.

Pretty much no. Mewtwo and Roy were only “replaced” by Ike and Lucario because of time constraints, as the former two were supposed to be playable.


That being said I would’ve only had Marth as the sole FE rep in Melee and introduced Lyn and Ike as newcomers in Brawl but that’s besides the point

 

[SPEN18]

Say, I have a little question...

So, basically back in the days of Brawl when it was released, some said that Mewtwo was "replaced" with Lucario, and Roy was "replaced" with Ike.

So, since we are likely getting cuts next Smash Bros. game, here is a question: Do you think there may be character "replacements", and if so, who should be replaced? Or do you think replacements are not a thing or should not be a thing? I would like to know everyone's thoughts on this.

Lucario and Ike weren't intended as replacements. BUT they do show that newcomers can get higher priority than vets from the same franchise, even if those vets were both popular and unique. In fact, it is highly likely that series with multiple reps like Mario, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem could see both cuts and newcomers in the next game.
Back in Melee, there was the initial plan to replace Ness with Lucas, but it didn't end up working out and Ness was kept. So at least back then the concept of characters being replaced or rotated out was on the table, but I don't think they tend to view things like that now since there's no clear recent example of it; it's more just that certain characters are bigger priorities than others.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Say, I have a little question...

So, basically back in the days of Brawl when it was released, some said that Mewtwo was "replaced" with Lucario, and Roy was "replaced" with Ike.

So, since we are likely getting cuts next Smash Bros. game, here is a question: Do you think there may be character "replacements", and if so, who should be replaced? Or do you think replacements are not a thing or should not be a thing? I would like to know everyone's thoughts on this.

Those were silly arguments even back in the day because they were such superficial similarities.

No, my real conspiracy theory is that Duck Hunt replaced Snake. Take away any aesthetics, and those two movesets feel so similar with the focus on trap setting, stage control, and unorthodox disjoints which forces opponents to make risky and predictable moves.

So to answer your question, I bet those sorts of replacements will totally happen. They'll just be a little subtler.

 

[CannonStreak]

Yeah, to everyone who responded to my initial post here…

I believed that the “replacement” thing was false and exaggerated, myself. I put the word replaced in quotation marks when mentioning Mewtwo and Roy because I was sure the replacement thing was false, and I did not think they were actually replaced when I made that post. I just wanted to make an attempt of bringing up an old belief, and I was betting people would say something like “there are no replacements”, anyway.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

This is how Kenshiro gets in

As a second Yakuza rep

 

[Arcanir]

Say, I have a little question...

So, basically back in the days of Brawl when it was released, some said that Mewtwo was "replaced" with Lucario, and Roy was "replaced" with Ike.

So, since we are likely getting cuts next Smash Bros. game, here is a question: Do you think there may be character "replacements", and if so, who should be replaced? Or do you think replacements are not a thing or should not be a thing? I would like to know everyone's thoughts on this.

No, because that was always silly. A lot of the time people were saying that they were being disingenuous as often it was said by those who didn't like Lucario or Ike, especially over Mewtwo or Roy. Lucario in particular got it the worst because he had a charge B like Mewtwo, so a lot of his detractors kept saying 'see, that makes him a clone, that sucks!' even though both are not that similar otherwise outside of both being anthropomorphic animals.

In general, Lucario and Ike's situation was just a case of happening to have higher priority. All four of them (plus PT for Pokemon) were intended for Brawl and if there was enough time and resources for them at least Mewtwo would've made it in as well, it just didn't happen because they didn't have enough to complete everyone they intended. It was a not a case of either Lucario or Ike being intended replacements to the two, just fellow Pokemon and Fire Emblem characters that were all intended for the roster.

 

[CannonStreak]

No, because that was always silly. A lot of the time people were saying that they were being disingenuous as often it was said by those who didn't like Lucario or Ike over Mewtwo or Roy. Lucario in particular got it the worst because he had a charge B like Mewtwo, so a lot of his detractors kept saying 'see, that makes him a clone, that sucks!' even though both are not that similar otherwise outside of both being anthropomorphic animals.

In general, Lucario and Ike's situation was just a case of happening to have higher priority. All four of them (plus PT for Pokemon) were intended for Brawl and if there was enough time and resources for them at least Mewtwo would've made it in as well, it just didn't happen because they didn't have enough to complete everyone they intended. So, it was a not a case of either Lucario or Ike being intended replacements to the two, just fellow Pokemon and Fire Emblem characters that were all intended for the roster.

Um, I am hoping you saw this other post I made...

Yeah, to everyone who responded to my initial post here…

I believed that the “replacement” thing was false and exaggerated, myself. I put the word replaced in quotation marks when mentioning Mewtwo and Roy because I was sure the replacement thing was false, and I did not think they were actually replaced when I made that post. I just wanted to make an attempt of bringing up an old belief, and I was betting people would say something like “there are no replacements”, anyway.

 

[Sucumbio]

Lol seems some of us have scared people from asking questions for fear of "OMG how dumb can you be to even ask this!?" It's fine CannonStreak in fact I too assumed back then that Ike "replaced" Roy and Lucario, Mewtwo.

 

[CannonStreak]

Lol seems some of us have scared people from asking questions for fear of "OMG how dumb can you be to even ask this!?" It's fine CannonStreak in fact I too assumed back then that Ike "replaced" Roy and Lucario, Mewtwo.

Thanks for understanding. I do appreciate it.

To be fair, though, I wasn't with the replacement thing back then, so I did not think of it much myself.

I just wanted to ask a question I thought would be good for discussion, and make sure characters replacing others was not a thing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Currently, "yes" has three times as many votes as the next option.

"Somewhere in the middle" is the next popular.

"No" is last, but it's actually close to "Somewhere in the middle."

So far it's overwhelmingly "yes."

Numbers have grown significantly. The ratio has not.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

2 Years Ago

Time Stopped and the Greatest thing happened pic.twitter.com/rpzO1AHemW

— John ★ ~ ProdigyxCD (@ProdigyxCD) October 5, 2023

I didn't know that Sora inclusion would be this controversial considering he was the most voted on the Smash Ballot but here. Some quotes are even saying that his inclusion killed their love of Smash which imo is a bit much.

 

[Wonder Smash]

2 Years Ago

Time Stopped and the Greatest thing happened pic.twitter.com/rpzO1AHemW

— John ★ ~ ProdigyxCD (@ProdigyxCD) October 5, 2023

I didn't know that Sora inclusion would be this controversial considering he was the most voted on the Smash Ballot but here. Some quotes are even saying that his inclusion killed their love of Smash which imo is a bit much.

I wouldn't even take them seriously. Haters gonna hate.

 

[chocolatejr9]

2 Years Ago

Time Stopped and the Greatest thing happened pic.twitter.com/rpzO1AHemW

— John ★ ~ ProdigyxCD (@ProdigyxCD) October 5, 2023

I didn't know that Sora inclusion would be this controversial considering he was the most voted on the Smash Ballot but here. Some quotes are even saying that his inclusion killed their love of Smash which imo is a bit much.

Eh, I've seen worse. Some even on this very site...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I find it weird how little fanart we got crossing over kingdom hearts and Doom.

You know because of the fanart we got putting together miis and the characters tied to them.

 

[Ivander]

I find it weird how little fanart we got crossing over kingdom hearts and Doom.

You know because of the fanart we got putting together miis and the characters tied to them.

I mean, at the start it does happen for some time, like what happened with Sans, Cuphead, Shantae and the Final Fantasy costumes. Even Doom Slayer got some fanart early on, with some unsurprisingly putting the Doom Slayer Mii character with Isabelle.
But also unsurprisingly, it's the player characters who get the most attention and lasting power whereas Assist Trophies, Mii Costumes and Spirits are often left behind after an initial start and run. Like it says alot when the Mii Brawler, Swordfighter and Gunner default looks often get more fanart than most of the Mii Costumes.

You will get some of them with more lasting power than others, like Sans, Waluigi and the meme of Shantae's Spirit possessing Samus, back when that Spirit/Character meme got an active start, but lost popularity somewhat quickly with Shantae Samus itself lasting somewhat longer, but without the hype backing ATs, most Mii Costumes and Spirits compared to the player characters, it's not unusual to see them drop in fanart faster than the player characters.

 

[jamesster445]

2 Years Ago

Time Stopped and the Greatest thing happened pic.twitter.com/rpzO1AHemW

— John ★ ~ ProdigyxCD (@ProdigyxCD) October 5, 2023

I didn't know that Sora inclusion would be this controversial considering he was the most voted on the Smash Ballot but here. Some quotes are even saying that his inclusion killed their love of Smash which imo is a bit much.

I feel like people forget this but when the ballot happened, people still had some excitement for KH3. Vs when Sora was finally revealed... Well let's just remember that in 2019, KH3 had slipped so far from public consciousness that a Fire Emblem game was seen as the snubbed GOTY contender.

Even if Master Chief was announced for the next game, I think the fall out of Infinite will cause some people to look more dour on it compared to his potential inclusion in 2021 back when people were excited about Infinite.

That's my theory.

 

[Perkilator]

I feel like people forget this but when the ballot happened, people still had some excitement for KH3. Vs when Sora was finally revealed... Well let's just remember that in 2019, KH3 had slipped so far from public consciousness that a Fire Emblem game was seen as the snubbed GOTY contender.

Well, actually, KH3 was still positively received by most, despite being divisive among the actual KH fan base, not to mention that it was even nominated for Best Score / Music and Best RPG at TGA 2019.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Kingdom hearts 3 was a weird game because the story dumps you right into the second act of the Keyblade war story.

The first act was entirely contained in Dream drop distance which ends very abruptly with KH3 picking off immediately where 3D left off. Something that's weird to do after a 7 year wait.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Are we somehow tricking ourselves into thinking that Sora of all characters had middling reception?

 

[HyperSomari64]

What other video game characters owned by a non-gaming companies should be in Smash?
INB4 everyone mentions Mortal Kombat
I pick Scorpion and Sub-Zero

 

[Ivander]

What other video game characters owned by a non-gaming companies should be in Smash?
INB4 everyone mentions Mortal Kombat
I pick Scorpion and Sub-Zero

Is there even another non-gaming company that has a notable video game IP besides Disney and Warner Bros? Like I even tried to make a joke involving LJN, but they didn't have a single non-licensed title aside from maybe Spirit of Speed, which didn't have any original characters as far as I know.

And you can't really do a Sony or Microsoft joke about them originating as non-video game companies when Nintendo is in the same boat.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is there even another non-gaming company that has a notable video game IP besides Disney and Warner Bros?

Universal maybe?