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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

D

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My list of newcomers for Smash 6
Bandana Waddle Dee
Bomberman
Rayman
Raiden
Aerith
Shadow
Tails
Octoling
DJ Octavio
Geno
Space Invanders
Jin kazama
Snorlax
Slippy toad
Dovakinn
Waluigi
Scorpion(Mortal Kombat)
Takamaru
Shantae
What do you think of this list?
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Can’t fault you for that. It would be really fun to play as a Godzilla inspired monster in Smash. In that case, Iron Thorns is my favorite Pokémon based on Godzilla.
Funny enough, while people attribute Tyranitar to Godzilla, there's more similarities in design to Bemular from Ultraman.
Still awesome and we need more kaiju-inspired Pokémon imo.

So is the new batch of spirits going to be announced in a few hours?
This week's going to be a Tourney Event more likely.



The Original Class of '64 rerun specifically.
 
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drewber2635

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I'm the complete opposite. Smash Ultimate is practically perfect. Just give me more of it.

If I wanted a different experience, I'd play a different series.
A reboot doesn't necessarily mean a different experience. When I say reboot, I don't mean change the core mechanics of the game. I mean just start over from square one. Give returning characters new moves, no clones or echos, new stages, new single player modes, more new comers ect. Having a smaller roster would make balancing easier for the devs and would leave plenty of room for years of new content to be added via seasons or whatnot. I'd never call Ultimate perfect, it's just jammed pack full of content and love which is great mind you.
 

Hadokeyblade

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I was 11 when Brawl came out, people laughed at kid me for having a wishlist of third parties.

But that wishlist ended up happening by the time ultimate rolled around so i got the last laugh.

A reboot doesn't necessarily mean a different experience. When I say reboot, I don't mean change the core mechanics of the game. I mean just start over from square one. Give returning characters new moves, no clones or echos, new stages, new single player modes, more new comers ect. Having a smaller roster would make balancing easier for the devs and would leave plenty of room for years of new content to be added via seasons or whatnot. I'd never call Ultimate perfect, it's just jammed pack full of content and love which is great mind you.
Thats not a reboot then, its just a bad sequel
 
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Arcanir

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Funny enough, while people attribute Tyranitar to Godzilla, there's more similarities in design to Bemular from Ultraman.
Still awesome and we need more kaiju-inspired Pokémon imo.
I'm still waiting for a good Anguirus and Destroyah.

I was 11 when Brawl came out, people laughed at kid me for having a wishlist of third parties.

But that wishlist ended up happening by the time ultimate rolled around so i got the last laugh.
That reminds me of an old magazine in the lead-up to Brawl that had Duck Hunt, Master Chief, and a couple other characters as their wanted choices. Everyone back then mocked the hell out of it, but nowadays that would be a completely different story.
 
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Louie G.

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Give returning characters new moves, no clones or echos, new stages, new single player modes, more new comers ect.
Outside of the clones part (which I mean, wouldn't drastically save them much dev time) this describes every game in the series. You're describing a sequel with cuts. The fact that you described them as returning characters in the first place means we're not that serious about renovating the roster.

Because in a roster of say, 30 characters, how many of them would reasonably not already be on the roster? Even if we started entirely from scratch? Smash's structure lies on a sort of inarguable hierarchy. You need Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, Kirby, Pikachu, Inkling. One or both of Villager and Isabelle. Someone from Fire Emblem, someone from Xenoblade, someone from Pikmin. Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Zelda, Ganon/Dorf. Yoshi and Wario. Fox, Ness and Captain Falcon are not going anywhere regardless of what anyone says and Mii Fighter costumes are pretty much a permanent fixture of Smash's economy. That's already 22 characters who NEED to be here - that is literally the barest possible minimum, and I probably even forgot a couple.

So then who are the newcomers who justify cutting King Dedede, Diddy Kong or Ridley? Does the inevitable new Pokemon really warrant cutting Charizard and Lucario? In this way Smash has kind of shot itself in the foot, but it was bound to happen. The game is built around introducing everyone's favorite characters, and at some point or another we establish characters who cannot be directly replaced. A complete overhaul removing the bulk of the roster and adding some fresh new faces sounds good on paper, but starts to feel a little ridiculous when you're subbing in I dunno, Raven Beak over Ridley or give Dixie Kong a go without Diddy. That just is not how this series operates and would do more to alienate millions of fans than anything. Subbing in less popular characters at the expense of more popular characters is kind of just a bad idea. So many of these series end up at a standstill.

And as I addressed yesterday, a lot of characters don't need moveset overhauls. Change for change's sake accomplishes pretty much nothing. We can stand to bring Samus up to speed with the current state of Metroid, give Mario some new powerups, maybe give Villager a growth spurt. But this isn't reboot material. If the team wants to switch up characters they will, any of these pretty much just sound the same as what Link got in Ultimate. Changes more drastic than this would just feel arbitrary, we don't need Mario's entire moveset to change just so we can slap a big NEW on it.

There are two scenarios that I feel would justify a true roster overhaul. One is limiting series to one or two fighters each, focusing more on "representatives" on behalf of their entire cast. I don't think this would be very satisfying, but it's something. Maybe it gives them an excuse to explore lesser known series and those that have missed the boat like Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven , Sin & Punishment. The other angle is a roster focused much more heavily on third party dynamics and becoming more of a "Nintendo Vs" styled game. Personally I'd love to see something like this, but maybe independent of Smash. That feels more like a side mission than a change of direction entirely.
 
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Garteam

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I think the biggest issue with a Smash reboot for me is that most of the vets don't need much in the way of a complete rework. Yeah, there's :ultganondorf:, :ultsonic:, and :ultwario:, but they're the exceptions that prove the rule. Characters like :ultmario:, :ultsamus:, and:ultdk: could be touched up, but there's no reason that couldn't be done in a regular sequel, like how :ultlink: received minor updates to his kit to represent BotW. Likewise, some characters like :ultolimar: and :ultsteve: have movesets that are highly frustrating to play against, but they represent their franchises' gameplay well.

I'd much rather just continue to see the iterative updates to veteran movesets that are standard for each entry, but I don't even know if those are worth it to justify having to rebuild so much of what could otherwise be reused from Ultimate. I'd much rather have an additional handful of veterans return than getting, say, a perfect Sonic or Ganondorf moveset.
 

Guynamednelson

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My personal hot take is that DK really doesn't need to be redone anyway. Sure he doesn't have barrel throwing or the coconut gun, but he's not meant to be a zoner anyway. And he doesn't have an extensive history of being bottom tier like post-Melee Ganondorf.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Speaking as someone who's played all the Wario Lands (outside the Virtual Boy one), Wario World, and Master of Disguise while conversely only playing the GameCube WarioWare, Smooth Moves, and owning Move It but not having played it yet...I don't see a problem with Wario's moves. And Wario was my Brawl main and one of my secondaries in For and Ultimate.

My biggest issue caused by For, the lack of his Dash Attack, was addressed in Ultimate by becoming....his literal dash attack. Which was a no-brainer change like finally giving DK his roll in For.
 
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Louie G.

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My personal hot take is that DK really doesn't need to be redone anyway. Sure he doesn't have barrel throwing or the coconut gun, but he's not meant to be a zoner anyway. And he doesn't have an extensive history of being bottom tier like post-Melee Ganondorf.
I've always shunned the idea of giving DK a projectile, but only recently I realized a barrel wouldn't be too bad.

As long as it's a really slow moving projectile, doesn't deal a lot of knockback and kind of just works as a nuisance to force your opponent into an optimal position. But not a spammable move or an especially dangerous one on its own, I kind of like the thought of what that kind of stage control option would do for DK's playstyle. Coconut Gun is a horrible idea though that doesn't fit with his kit at all.

I also just think the idea of playing a sort of Donkey Kong minigame mid-match is funny. A move hard-countered by just jumping over it.
 
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Guynamednelson

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As long as it's a really slow moving projectile, doesn't deal a lot of knockback and kind of just works as a nuisance to force your opponent into an optimal position. But not a spammable move or an especially dangerous one on its own, I kind of like the thought of what that kind of stage control option would do for DK's playstyle
When you put it that way, it doesn't sound too bad. I just don't like the idea of changing DK's playstyle just for the sake of adding barrels and coconuts to his moveset.
 

Louie G.

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When you put it that way, it doesn't sound too bad. I just don't like the idea of changing DK's playstyle just for the sake of adding barrels and coconuts to his moveset.
I agree, character essence comes first. If DK is encouraged to pester opponents from a distance instead of going in hog wild with big dumb punches, it wouldn't be DK anymore. That's why if he did have a projectile, it should emphasize pressure and force opponents to get closer to him rather than playing keep away.

I never really got the "just a gorilla" complaint for DK anyway. What else do we want him to do? I agree that his voice should change, but otherwise DK is a big hulking gorilla and I have to imagine most people who play him enjoy it for that exact reason. Who doesn't want to smack people around as a giant ape?
 
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Scrimblo Bimblo

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Ultimate Wario is pretty great imo.
Remember the way he was in Brawl? With all those G&W-style animations that he had for some reason. That was weird. Wario is a wacky character but that felt a little too extreme.
Now they fixed him and he's a zany brute, which fits pretty well with his Wario Land portrayal, at least I think. Only played 3 which is a masterpiece btw. He also has the shoulder bash and the ground pound via his dthrow. Bike and Waft are his most outlandish moves at this point, and let's be real both are very fun and unique.
On top of that he has pretty unique playstyle, this mobile and combo-heavy but short-ranged heavyweight.
I dunno. I like Wario a lot.

Then again I also feel like there's nothing particularly wrong with Samus, having played every Metroid game.
I just don't think they need to represent every facet of every character. If they feel like themselves and the moveset is unique and functional it's pretty much mission accomplished as far as I'm concerned.
 
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CannonStreak

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I love how some people definition of a reboot is pretty much just Smash 4: a few cuts (Snake, Ice climbers), a few moveset changes (Pit, Bowser, Sheik, Zero suit Samus), new game modes (Smash run and Smash tour) and that's it, you now have a reboot!
They must be failing to realize that that is a new game, not a reboot. I mean, I believe the gameplay has to be reworked, maybe by a lot.
 

BuckleyTim

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Oh yeah it's Tuesday hypothetically we should potentially learn about the next wave of spirits tonight. What is your guess?
Part of me wonders if they'll just rapid-fire these out in the next three weeks until we get to the sora amiibo patch. Though I expect to be proven wrong on that front in a few hours when the next news update is Tourney Event Rerun #4543667.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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I love how some people definition of a reboot is pretty much just Smash 4: a few cuts (Snake, Ice climbers), a few moveset changes (Pit, Bowser, Sheik, Zero suit Samus), new game modes (Smash run and Smash tour) and that's it, you now have a reboot!
Yeah sometimes words get meme'd around and lose all meaning.
 

CannonStreak

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Part of me wonders if they'll just rapid-fire these out in the next three weeks until we get to the sora amiibo patch. Though I expect to be proven wrong on that front in a few hours when the next news update is Tourney Event Rerun #4543667.
A Sora amiibo patch, now that is what I expect to come after these spirit events are done! I was thinking we would get something about Smash after the events, and this patch would be likelier than a new game to me.
 

Gorgonzales

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They must be failing to realize that that is a new game, not a reboot. I mean, I believe the gameplay has to be reworked, maybe by a lot.
What I'm picturing from a reboot is a dramatically scrambled cast (~35 characters, almost all have big changes to address their glaring issues, if not completely reworked), a completely overhauled gameplay system (tech is encouraged with new movement options alongside the return of wavedashing, a new assist mechanic or meter mechanic, aerial strong attacks, and other fundemental tweaks to gameplay), 95% of the stages being fresh with new hazard-specific toggles and multiple layouts, a new way of receiving content for the modern era (so a live service model), and a substantial single-player campaign that rivals the base game in replayability and scope (which I'm certain can be accomplished with a severely trimmed-down cast).
 

CannonStreak

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What I'm picturing from a reboot is a dramatically scrambled cast (~35 characters, almost all have big changes to address their glaring issues, if not completely reworked), a completely overhauled gameplay system (tech is encouraged with new movement options alongside the return of wavedashing, a new assist mechanic or meter mechanic, aerial strong attacks, and other fundemental tweaks to gameplay), 95% of the stages being fresh with new hazard-specific toggles and multiple layouts, a new way of receiving content for the modern era (so a live service model), and a substantial single-player campaign that rivals the base game in replayability and scope (which I'm certain can be accomplished with a severely trimmed-down cast).
Well, to me, 35 is reasonably a better number than any number that is lower to me. Your other ideas are nice, too.
 

Guynamednelson

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I just don't think they need to represent every facet of every character. If they feel like themselves and the moveset is unique and functional it's pretty much mission accomplished as far as I'm concerned.
Frankly making characters reference every single thing they've ever done would just result in some characters like Mario being too complex, and not just for beginners.

Really I think the only characters that absolutely need new movesets are Ganondorf and Sonic. And even then I'd be fine with them just changing their specials-most of Ganondorf's normals still look like Falcon's, but the lack of twirling still helps them fit his personality, while a lot of Sonic's curled-up-into-a-ball moves were already changed in 4, he just needs more visual (and function) variety in his specials.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

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Remember the way he was in Brawl? With all those G&W-style animations that he had for some reason. That was weird.
It was awkward for sure, but they kinda grew on me and I actually somewhat miss them.

Wouldn't change the animation back NOW, but I still have a nostalgia for the Brawl style.
 

SPEN18

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My general stance on the moveset changes is that I don't want them to make changes simply for the sake of them (like for example I don't think wholesale moveset changes are enough impetus on their own for a legitimate full-scale reboot), but I also don't want them to be averse to changes in places where there's room for improvement just over fear of alienating people.
It's fine to let a new game be a new game. I am a fan of making smaller tweaks and updates to keep everyone fresh and consistent in style, in addition to larger reworks in the limited cases where it seems necessary. I don't want them to leave things the same just because it's "good enough," but also Smash generally maintains a very high level of quality for all of its content and so most characters aren't too crazy far off the mark. I also don't want them to actively avoid making changes just on the principle of avoiding cuts at all costs; no, you weigh the resource cost of the potential changes against whatever else you could expend that effort on, be it bringing back older content or making other new content.
Bottom line, just make everyone the best version of themselves you can make them with the resources and technology you have available. (obviously much easier said than done)
 

Sucumbio

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3D Smash would be interesting or a tag smash or multiplayer controlling one character set or...

... but I'd still want a regular Smash lol if you look at tekken, a game I haven't played seriously since 3, I literally played 7 at an arcade in Nashville and whaddya know Xiaoyu still kicks ass!

images (24).jpeg

:D
 

NintenRob

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Here's my question for everyone


How necessary do you think a new Mario character is each Smash Bros game?



Every Smash Bros game has added at least two Mario characters. The only exception you could count is Brawl. Which didn't add any core Mario cast characters. But we did Wario and Diddy Kong. Two characters who appear in a ton of Mario games but are listed as different franchise
 

Noipoi

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Here's my question for everyone


How necessary do you think a new Mario character is each Smash Bros game?



Every Smash Bros game has added at least two Mario characters. The only exception you could count is Brawl. Which didn't add any core Mario cast characters. But we did Wario and Diddy Kong. Two characters who appear in a ton of Mario games but are listed as different franchise
Absolutely necessary? Not really. It just so happens that Mario is a huge series with a lot of characters to add.

I could see it happening again next time, if they bring in Waluigi and throw a bone to Geno fans.
 

BritishGuy54

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Here's my question for everyone


How necessary do you think a new Mario character is each Smash Bros game?



Every Smash Bros game has added at least two Mario characters. The only exception you could count is Brawl. Which didn't add any core Mario cast characters. But we did Wario and Diddy Kong. Two characters who appear in a ton of Mario games but are listed as different franchise
Not much, honestly. I think 4 and Ultimate did a great job expanding Mario representation, bringing in Bowser Jr, Rosalina, Daisy, and the oddball pick of Piranha Plant.

Obviously, people will never stop asking for Geno and Waluigi. But I think they’re the wrong choices to look at. While the SMRPG remake may have helped Geno a bit, I’m not counting on Geno getting in as anything more than a Mii costume. Waluigi will also just be relegated to an assist trophy again.

But there are other options. If you want an RPG pick, there’s always Paper Mario, who has much more of a legacy, and variety. Or from the traditional games, we could have Toad.

But compared to other series, I’d say the Mario cast in Smash is fine as it is, and while there could be some room to grow, I wouldn’t feel too bad if next game only cut Plant and Dr Mario, and kept the rest.
 

Gorgonzales

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Here's my question for everyone


How necessary do you think a new Mario character is each Smash Bros game?



Every Smash Bros game has added at least two Mario characters. The only exception you could count is Brawl. Which didn't add any core Mario cast characters. But we did Wario and Diddy Kong. Two characters who appear in a ton of Mario games but are listed as different franchise
They're very recognizable and don't hurt, but I don't think not having a new Mario character negatively affects a new game (especially if we stick with all the Mario rep we have now).

That being said, Waluigi is a really big request, possibly the biggest one in line for the next game. I'd say Waluigi is the only "missing" Mario character that a casual player would definitely take note of. I do think that not including him in Smash 6 would be tangibly off-putting. Not enough to dissuade people from buying the game, but his absence will really be felt, and as time goes on I feel the pressure for him to be added will only increase.

gonna use this post as an opportunity to say Nabbit is a sleeper pick that I view as a very possible contender for the next game
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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For the most part, yes. Brawl didn't have an actual Mario-series character(it did get a Boss, though), sure, but that was also the first game to not return every character. Mind you, Diddy, unlike Wario, wasn't from a Mario series game first anyway, so he really doesn't count even with a stretch.

Beyond that, we're getting more and more constantly, and it's pretty nice~ We also get tons of non-playable content, like bosses or mini-bosses, too. Brawl got regular Mario series stuff(like Petey Piranha as a unique boss) along with levels, new items, etc.

It's been pretty good. It doesn't have to even get a playable character, as Brawl shows, because it still gets content up the wazoo. So overall? It's not necessary, no. It'll still get other content to make up for it.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Here's my question for everyone


How necessary do you think a new Mario character is each Smash Bros game?



Every Smash Bros game has added at least two Mario characters. The only exception you could count is Brawl. Which didn't add any core Mario cast characters. But we did Wario and Diddy Kong. Two characters who appear in a ton of Mario games but are listed as different franchise
"Necessary"? Not really.

Will it happen? Probably.

Is it warranted if it happens? Sure. Mario is Nintendo.
 
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NintenRob

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Personally. I actually think Mario is in a really solid position in terms of characters. I certainly wouldn't say no to the likes Toad and Waluigi, and King Boo is among my most wanted characters. But given how good Mario has it right now, I think I'd prefer to prioritize other franchises get more characters. But the current cast feels really good for Mario the same way Metroid feels really good with it's cast.
 
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