Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

18. Fighter Hayabusa

Ho hooh, you almost had me.

 

[Garteam]

The problem with the celebration angle is you can't celebrate something like Bubsy.
No one celebrates massive failures like that. That's all Bubsy's legacy is. It's a series of well and truly awful games that were ripe to be mocked years ago. Time has moved on, no one even cares to mock it anymore. It has new releases that no one cares about and they're also bad games. There's no redeeming qualities here, let alone anything you could feasibly "celebrate"

If you want to "avoid misconceptions about gaming history" then you don't add Bubsy to the crossover fighting game that has Mario, Sonic, Steve, Cloud, Ryu, Solid Snake and Pikachu in it

In fairness, the Bubsy series (at least the retro games, haven't played the reboot) is more mediocre to subpar rather than being outright and unambiguously horrible (except for Bubsy 3D, which is genuinely Superman 64-tier awful). Yeah, the level design doesn't properly support Bubsy's speed and there are some collusion issues, but the bigger issue is that the game is just incredibly bland and uninspired. Outside of Bubsy's personality, there's nothing that sticks with you like in solid platformers like Mario or Mega Man. Things just kind of happen and you forget about them 5 seconds later as you mindlessly move on to the next distraction until the game ends. You could do a lot better, but the first couple of Bubsy games aren't as bad as the likes of Awesome Possum Kicks Dr. Machino's Butt.

I think the more accurate complaint against Bubsy is that the character is transparently corporate and a product of his time. Bubsy doesn't feel like the product of a creative with a vision, he feels like an IP lawyer explaining how to create a character that is as close to Sonic as possible while remaining legally distinct. Making a hedgehog with shoes might be substantially reproducing Sonic, but having a woodland mammal with an article of human clothing is fine. So, Bubsy is a bobcat with a sweater. Sega doesn't have any copyright over having a sarcastic character or having a speed-based platformer set in the woods, so Bubsy quips, runs, and jumps. Likewise, you can have a level set in a commercial amusement district so long as it doesn't get too close to Casino Night Zone, so one of Bubsy 1's level themes is boardwalk carnival. Rinse and repeat ad nausea until, bam, your 60-year-old boss who has never held a controller before now has a Sonic that isn't Sonic.

The question then becomes, why would you ever want Bubsy in Smash if you can just have Sonic instead? He represents everything Bubsy would and then some from a historical perspective and he's far more relevant today than Bubsy. Even if you wanted a character to represent the waves of derivative animal mascot platformers that were released following Sonic's success, Crash Bandicoot is far more distinct from Sonic, more popular generally and as a Smash candidate, and his games are remembered for their substance rather than being a vehicle for a hackneyed product.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

In fairness, the Bubsy series (at least the retro games, haven't played the reboot) is more mediocre to subpar rather than being outright and unambiguously horrible (except for Bubsy 3D, which is genuinely Superman 64-tier awful). Yeah, the level design doesn't properly support Bubsy's speed and there are some collusion issues, but the bigger issue is that the game is just incredibly bland and uninspired. Outside of Bubsy's personality, there's nothing that sticks with you like in solid platformers like Mario or Mega Man. Things just kind of happen and you forget about them 5 seconds later as you mindlessly move on to the next distraction until the game ends. You could do a lot better, but the first couple of Bubsy games aren't as bad as the likes of Awesome Possum Kicks Dr. Machino's Butt.

I think the more accurate complaint against Bubsy is that the character is transparently corporate and a product of his time. Bubsy doesn't feel like the product of a creative with a vision, he feels like an IP lawyer explaining how to create a character that is as close to Sonic as possible while remaining legally distinct. Making a hedgehog with shoes might be substantially reproducing Sonic, but having a woodland mammal with an article of human clothing is fine. So, Bubsy is a bobcat with a sweater. Sega doesn't have any copyright over having a sarcastic character or having a speed-based platformer set in the woods, so Bubsy quips, runs, and jumps. Likewise, you can have a level set in a commercial amusement district so long as it doesn't get too close to Casino Night Zone, so one of Bubsy 1's level themes is boardwalk carnival. Rinse and repeat ad nausea until, bam, your 60-year-old boss who has never held a controller before now has a Sonic that isn't Sonic.

The question then becomes, why would you ever want Bubsy in Smash if you can just have Sonic instead? He represents everything Bubsy would and then some from a historical perspective and he's far more relevant today than Bubsy. Even if you wanted a character to represent the waves of derivative animal mascot platformers that were released following Sonic's success, Crash Bandicoot is far more distinct from Sonic, more popular generally and as a Smash candidate, and his games are remembered for their substance rather than being a vehicle for a hackneyed product.

Heck even in the fairly narrow superlative of "speed oriented animal platformer mascots from the 90s inspired by Sonic", Bubsy would be outclassed by Sparkster.

 

[CannonStreak]

In fairness, the Bubsy series (at least the retro games, haven't played the reboot) is more mediocre to subpar rather than being outright and unambiguously horrible (except for Bubsy 3D, which is genuinely Superman 64-tier awful). Yeah, the level design doesn't properly support Bubsy's speed and there are some collusion issues, but the bigger issue is that the game is just incredibly bland and uninspired. Outside of Bubsy's personality, there's nothing that sticks with you like in solid platformers like Mario or Mega Man. Things just kind of happen and you forget about them 5 seconds later as you mindlessly move on to the next distraction until the game ends. You could do a lot better, but the first couple of Bubsy games aren't as bad as the likes of Awesome Possum Kicks Dr. Machino's Butt.

I think the more accurate complaint against Bubsy is that the character is transparently corporate and a product of his time. Bubsy doesn't feel like the product of a creative with a vision, he feels like an IP lawyer explaining how to create a character that is as close to Sonic as possible while remaining legally distinct. Making a hedgehog with shoes might be substantially reproducing Sonic, but having a woodland mammal with an article of human clothing is fine. So, Bubsy is a bobcat with a sweater. Sega doesn't have any copyright over having a sarcastic character or having a speed-based platformer set in the woods, so Bubsy quips, runs, and jumps. Likewise, you can have a level set in a commercial amusement district so long as it doesn't get too close to Casino Night Zone, so one of Bubsy 1's level themes is boardwalk carnival. Rinse and repeat ad nausea until, bam, your 60-year-old boss who has never held a controller before now has a Sonic that isn't Sonic.

The question then becomes, why would you ever want Bubsy in Smash if you can just have Sonic instead? He represents everything Bubsy would and then some from a historical perspective and he's far more relevant today than Bubsy. Even if you wanted a character to represent the waves of derivative animal mascot platformers that were released following Sonic's success, Crash Bandicoot is far more distinct from Sonic, more popular generally and as a Smash candidate, and his games are remembered for their substance rather than being a vehicle for a hackneyed product.

So, why would you want to have Bubsy in Smash? Maybe because some people might want this?

Spoiler

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I am a little late but going to do some mod stuff as I haven't done it in a while.

And I am going to let someone else talk for me....

I agree with this and I've noticed sometimes the dogpiling gets to be a bit overdone for certain unpopular opinions. I don't think we have to tell them that the characters they like are bad and "garbage", people can like what they want. I forget the reason but sometime a week or so ago we just got a slew of posts insulting another person, calling them stupid for their disagreeable opinion. I'm surprised more people didn't get warnings for that.

You do, however, open yourself up to criticism when you insult other popular characters. And that scrutiny can easily be extended onto your own values to highlight hypocrisy. Calling characters that other people enjoy a "waste" and calling the community's taste "lame" and then asking for Bubsy and Clippy is bound to be a magnet for frustration and well, confusion more than anything. So you have to be ready for people to question that when you're saying it would be confusing for audiences to have Banjo and Kazooie in the game, and then suggesting it would be cool to represent the Game Genie.

^ this 100%

There are far more diplomatic ways to criticize someone's choices that do not focus on hurting their feelings or making them feel like their opinions are invalidated. Calling someone's opinions "trash" does nothing but sow discontent. Likewise, if you bring a potentially controversial topic to a thread, you should be more than ready to either defend it or take the criticism. While a joker roster might not be a joke to you, it may be seen like that to a wider audience and, perhaps, even a shallow attempt at trolling the thread. You may not think it that way but there is a good chance that is how the post will be received and that should be taken into consideration. It would be like going into a "bicycle thread" and saying "I like bicycles but tricycles are where it's at". ...well, I feel like people here get overly emotional, invested, and offended compared to a "bicycle thread". Regardless, there is no reason to go jumping on others for having an "out there" opinion but, likewise, please consider how your post may be received if you post something that tends to stir up controversy for the wider audience.

If you want to reach out to me, you can do so but I will not be replying to the thread concerning this.

I might do it this winter but I have been wanting to make a roster that uses this format

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To be honest, I really wouldn't care what the legacy is anyway. Absolutely not a strong choice either. Joke picks don't really exist(a character can play like a joke character in context, but they all are done for fun or other actual reasons). That said, he'd be funny as a Spirit. XD

Anyway, I am hoping we do get a minor balance patch with the Sora amiibo(even if it's mostly for gltiches that need fixing character-wise). If not, that's fine too. Game is great. Perfect? Nah. The Spirit Battles are a pleasant surprise, but they're also way easier to add than anything else, and since Smash isn't coming for a while, nor apparently a new System, squeezing a bit more life out of it makes sense.

That, and they don't have the super easy assets to add major content like how they could with Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. There's no Tour or something similar to easily take pieces from. As well as just the fact it's much harder to make playable characters in Smash than Mario Kart. Stages/Courses I can't say really for sure. MK might require more work, considering their size, but I don't know enough to know what is reused assets to make things simpler, etc.

 

[CannonStreak]

To be honest, I really wouldn't care what the legacy is anyway. Absolutely not a strong choice either. Joke picks don't really exist(a character can play like a joke character in context, but they all are done for fun or other actual reasons). That said, he'd be funny as a Spirit. XD

Anyway, I am hoping we do get a minor balance patch with the Sora amiibo(even if it's mostly for gltiches that need fixing character-wise). If not, that's fine too. Game is great. Perfect? Nah. The Spirit Battles are a pleasant surprise, but they're also way easier to add than anything else, and since Smash isn't coming for a while, nor apparently a new System, squeezing a bit more life out of it makes sense.

That, and they don't have the super easy assets to add major content like how they could with Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. There's no Tour or something similar to easily take pieces from. As well as just the fact it's much harder to make playable characters in Smash than Mario Kart. Stages/Courses I can't say really for sure. MK might require more work, considering their size, but I don't know enough to know what is reused assets to make things simpler, etc.

That was kind of what I was trying to say when I responded to Garteam 's post about an Ultimate Deluxe from the last page.

 

[Ivander]

The problem with the celebration angle is you can't celebrate something like Bubsy.
No one celebrates massive failures like that. That's all Bubsy's legacy is. It's a series of well and truly awful games that were ripe to be mocked years ago. Time has moved on, no one even cares to mock it anymore. It has new releases that no one cares about and they're also bad games. There's no redeeming qualities here, let alone anything you could feasibly "celebrate"

If you want to "avoid misconceptions about gaming history" then you don't add Bubsy to the crossover fighting game that has Mario, Sonic, Steve, Cloud, Ryu, Solid Snake and Pikachu in it

Indeed, Smash Bros. only celebrates the finest quality games through all the ages. You simply can't just put such titles of poor quality who hardly brought in the pounds standing beside legends like Mario and Legend of Zelda. Xenoblade Chronicles X? Nintendo Land? Surely you must be jesting that such games would be worth celebrating next to masterpieces like Metroid Other M, Sonic Lost World and Game & Wario? Such drivel, to think such titles could ever be given the time of day compared to these valuable treasures of gaming history.

.
.
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Didn't think speaking sarcastically could make you feel sick. Must have been from doing all that Bri'ish.

 

[Schnee117]

Indeed, Smash Bros. only celebrates the finest quality games through all the ages. You simply can't just put such titles of poor quality who hardly brought in the pounds standing beside legends like Mario and Legend of Zelda. Xenoblade Chronicles X? Nintendo Land? Surely you must be jesting that such games would be worth celebrating next to masterpieces like Metroid Other M, Sonic Lost World and Game & Wario? Such drivel, to think such titles could ever be given the time of day compared to these valuable treasures of gaming history.

.
.
.
Didn't think speaking sarcastically could make you feel sick. Must have been from doing all that Bri'ish.

I wonder if there's a difference between a franchise like Bubsy that has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and singular poor entries in otherwise beloved franchises...

No that would be nuanced and we can't have that.

 

[AlRex]

History books generally also say bad things, albeit that is more serious.

I would not have Bubsy show up before Crash or Rayman, as those feel like the last of the major “Scrimblos” to put in. But after them, and an actual Atari character, putting Bubsy in as a sillier addition would be fine enough. I think putting bad games in is more funny/entertaining than some grave insult. Virtual Boy or the Cheetahmen or a CDI character or E.T. or Shaq (if “fourth parties” were allowed) would be entertaining, though obviously that kind of choice shouldn’t dominate things.

 

[Gengar84]

I actually kind of liked the first Bubsy game on the SNES and I’ve rented it multiple times when I was younger. He’s not anywhere near my most wanted but I would be happy to see him in Smash one day.

 

[MasterCheef]

Nothing to see here just keep moving on.

Job listing reveals Bandai Namco working on both 2D and 3D action games for Nintendo

Bandai Namco seemingly has two projects in production for Nintendo with one being developed at Studio 2 and the second being developed at Studio S. The job listing seems to suggest that the 3D game is…

mynintendonews.com

 

[CannonStreak]

Wanna know a funny joke pick I just thought of? Take a look at this.

I think it would be so funny if we had Somari as a cross between Mario and Sonic as playable characters, moveset wise.

 

[Geno Boost]

18. Fighter Hayabusa or Starman

I feel like pro wrestling rep can have the koopalings treatment with each skin represent a wrestler from that game
But thre more important question is how to make pro wrestling rep different from

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Wanna know a funny joke pick I just thought of? Take a look at this.

I think it would be so funny if we had Somari as a cross between Mario and Sonic as playable characters, moveset wise.

Surprised thats not a mod already.

 

[cashregister9]

Those new Spirits coming next month got me thinking about what if Smash Ultimate got a Booster Course Pass style expansion with new characters, stages, music, mii costumes and echoes.

So I made it, I tried to make it somewhat believable

Spoiler

		Characters				Stages				Mii Costumes
83	Octoling		Splatoon		Gone Fission Hydroplant		Splatoon		Clive	Swordfighter	Final Fantasy
84	Chun-li		Street Fighter		Metro City		Street Fighter		Black Mask	Swordfighter	Persona
85	Alear		Fire Emblem		Somniel		Fire Emblem		Solaire	Swordfighter	Dark Souls
86	Noah		Xenoblade Chronicles		Erythia Sea		Xenoblade Chronicles		Shiver	Gunner	Splatoon
87	Mio		Xenoblade Chronicles		Starfall Islands		Sonic The Hedgehog		Leon	Gunner	Resident Evil
88	Dr. Eggman		Sonic The Hedgehog		Area Zero		Pokemon		Cuddle Team Leader	Gunner	Fortnite
		Echoes							Frye	Brawler	Splatoon
12e	Scream Tail		Pokemon						Jin Kazama (Tekken 8)	Brawler	Tekken
63e	Jeanne		Bayonetta						Matthew	Brawler	Xenoblade
									Big Man Mask	Hat	Splatoon
									Sommie	Hat	Fire Emblem
									Headcrab	Hat	Half-life

I also have a whole list of 200 songs but like that is way too much to paste here.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Wanna know a funny joke pick I just thought of? Take a look at this.

I think it would be so funny if we had Somari as a cross between Mario and Sonic as playable characters, moveset wise.

Bootleg Video Game representation in Smash will be funny.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Everyone is jumping on Bubsy, but that was far from the most egregious choice.

Like, the Bubsy games weren't very good, but, much like Battletoads, Bubsy is strangely iconic despite his games being bad.

Or perhaps BECAUSE his games were bad.

I actually kind of liked the first Bubsy game on the SNES and I’ve rented it multiple times when I was younger.

"More like a bridge too short!"

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

The problem with the celebration angle is you can't celebrate something like Bubsy.
No one celebrates massive failures like that. That's all Bubsy's legacy is. It's a series of well and truly awful games that were ripe to be mocked years ago. Time has moved on, no one even cares to mock it anymore. It has new releases that no one cares about and they're also bad games. There's no redeeming qualities here, let alone anything you could feasibly "celebrate"

If you want to "avoid misconceptions about gaming history" then you don't add Bubsy to the crossover fighting game that has Mario, Sonic, Steve, Cloud, Ryu, Solid Snake and Pikachu in it

That is literally the reason I want him, to celebrate bad games! Bad games are awesome and fascinating tidbits of gaming history that often go either overlooked or treated as an egregious crime instead of what they really are, fun curios at worst, that's why Sqij was on my wishlist too.

 

[dream1ng]

Bubsy being the "Dan" of Smash would be pretty funny.

 

[Geno Boost]

Isn’t Pichu basically the Dan of smash

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Isn’t Pichu basically the Dan of smash

Pichu got turned into a functional character, so I don't think he counts anymore.

 

[fogbadge]

That is literally the reason I want him, to celebrate bad games! Bad games are awesome and fascinating tidbits of gaming history that often go either overlooked or treated as an egregious crime instead of what they really are, fun curios at worst, that's why Sqij was on my wishlist too.

well you got everyone talking about them like you wanted

 

[Garteam]

I think the biggest issue with bad reps is that they're very region-specific. We're discussing Bubsy which isn't even that bad of a game but people assume it is because the character is a more annoying version of Sonic and the Cheetahmen. However, I don't think these games are really remembered or known in Japan at all. Instead, when they think of bad games, they think of Famicom kusoge like Paris Dakar Rally and Transformers: Convoy no Nazo. However, unless you've spent too much time reading about video games on the internet as I have, these names are meaningless.

Although, Urban Champion would kind of be hilarious. You wanted Master Chief or Dante? Too bad, you're instead getting the most generic main character ever from Nintendo's jankiest release.

 

[Speed Weed]

I think the biggest issue with bad reps is that they're very region-specific. We're discussing Bubsy which isn't even that bad of a game but people assume it is because the character is a more annoying version of Sonic and the Cheetahmen. However, I don't think these games are really remembered or known in Japan at all. Instead, when they think of bad games, they think of Famicom kusoge like Paris Dakar Rally and Transformers: Convoy no Nazo. However, unless you've spent too much time reading about video games on the internet as I have, these names are meaningless.

Although, Urban Champion would kind of be hilarious. You wanted Master Chief or Dante? Too bad, you're instead getting the most generic main character ever from Nintendo's jankiest release.

I would give up my firstborn for Sakurai to add Death Crimson content in the next game

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I do think that if any kusoge gets rep in Smash with that intent, it'll probably be Spelunker given how overwhelmingly known and beloved its crap-ness is in Japan, and how it still recieves new sequels that play off of its difficulty (there's even an anime where the title shot in the intro is him taking fall damage) - I've heard that Action 52 has a following in Japan, but the size of that following is probably not all too big, and gets into a dilemma with unlicensed games (even though Cheetahmen in Smash would be awesome, don't get me wrong). I could maybe see Nintendo loosening their stance on the Mario CD-i/edutainment games as the second most likely situation for this behind Spelunker, buuuut that really just speaks to how unlikely bad rep is.

 

[Schnee117]

That is literally the reason I want him, to celebrate bad games! Bad games are awesome and fascinating tidbits of gaming history that often go either overlooked or treated as an egregious crime instead of what they really are, fun curios at worst, that's why Sqij was on my wishlist too.

If you want to bring in stuff that's overlooked then uplift actual forgotten gems like ActRaiser, not things that people outright rejected for damn good reason.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

If you want to bring in stuff that's overlooked then uplift actual forgotten gems like ActRaiser, not things that people outright rejected for damn good reason.

I like bad games because they're bad. They're fascinating and fun to learn about, and often have interesting redeeming qualities, development histories, or cultural impacts that make them worth remembering. I dunno how that's so hard to understand. I mean, you were complaining on this same page about a lack of nuanced discussion about bad instalments in good franchises, I don't know why bad games as a whole can't be looked at through a nuanced or even positive lens

 

[Schnee117]

I like bad games because they're bad. They're fascinating and fun to learn about, and often have interesting redeeming qualities, development histories, or cultural impacts that make them worth remembering. I dunno how that's so hard to understand. I mean, you were complaining on this same page about a lack of nuanced discussion about bad instalments in good franchises, I don't know why bad games as a whole can't be looked at through a nuanced or even positive lens

It depends on the game.
A bad game like Shadow the Hedgehog has redeeming qualities.
A bad game like Bubsy has nothing about it that could be considered a redeeming quality by any sane individual.

But moreover this is Smash, it isn't here to teach why "that ****ty platformer game with the annoying protag is important actually" or anything like that. It's a fighting game, it's an excuse to have Mario beat up up Sonic and Pac-Man before getting destroyed by Cloud. There are limited slots and no need to waste them on the likes of Bubsy.

 

[Megadoomer]

I figure Smash does a good job with picking some excellent third party titles - sure, some of the third party series in Smash have had some bad games now and then (Sonic '06 being the first one that comes to mind), but there's a reason why they're being included among some of the all-stars of gaming, even if we count assist trophies.

Celebrating a game/series for being consistently awful seems to defeat the purpose of that and dilute the inclusion of third party characters. Rather than being seen as a badge of honour, it would diminish the accomplishments of third party characters that do get in. (seeing as they'd be seen as though they're less important or less of a priority than Bubsy)

I played Bubsy as a kid, and there weren't a lot of redeeming qualities to be found in that game. (and that's generous/polite on my part) The fact that it included voice acting was impressive for the time, but the gameplay was so bad that it begs the question of what the developers were thinking. Picture a Sonic game where there are no rings at all in the level (meaning that you die in one hit), the screen is zoomed in (meaning that you can barely see what's ahead of you if you're running), and there's fall damage.

It would be like giving Birdemic an Oscar - there's no reason to do it.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Each time this thread goes through Wishlist season, i just how to do guys are capable of having list at 25+ and then beyond? Doesn't not seem much and leaves one up more to disappointment. Especially depending on how long you been with the series

I can barely come up with 5 actual wants. I already got burned with wanting 2.

So the joke here is just "Lol, random garbage picks!"

Nah. Unconvential? Sure. Garbage? Not neccessarily.

Feel like we are being too harsh with this list. Definitely not my picks but:

Waluigi
Eggman
That Iwata Guy(I know that's not his real name but i can't spell)
Bad Pigges

All have potential. Especially the latter. Don't see Angry Birds get talked that much in terms of Speculation even now under the Wings of Sega.

I suspect it's because it's more recent entry for younger generations whilst most of us are all old-headw but similar to Minecraft, it did definitely define a lot of childhoods for the late 2000s/10s era like the latter. Appear lot on Nintendo platforms too.

With Sega already given Sonic, Bayo and now Joker. I wonder.....

It's a fighting game, it's an excuse to have Mario beat up up Sonic and Pac-Man before getting destroyed by Cloud. There are limited slots and no need to waste them on the likes of Bubsy.

I would say it's bit more than just that. Kinda reducing the thing to dwindle there

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

It depends on the game.
A bad game like Shadow the Hedgehog has redeeming qualities.
A bad game like Bubsy has nothing about it that could be considered a redeeming quality by any sane individual.

But moreover this is Smash, it isn't here to teach why "that ****ty platformer game with the annoying protag is important actually" or anything like that. It's a fighting game, it's an excuse to have Mario beat up up Sonic and Pac-Man before getting destroyed by Cloud. There are limited slots and no need to waste them on the likes of Bubsy.

I figure Smash does a good job with picking some excellent third party titles - sure, some of the third party series in Smash have had some bad games now and then (Sonic '06 being the first one that comes to mind), but there's a reason why they're being included among some of the all-stars of gaming, even if we count assist trophies.

Celebrating a game/series for being consistently awful seems to defeat the purpose of that and dilute the inclusion of third party characters. Rather than being seen as a badge of honour, it would diminish the accomplishments of third party characters that do get in. (seeing as they'd be seen as though they're less important or less of a priority than Bubsy)

I played Bubsy as a kid, and there weren't a lot of redeeming qualities to be found in that game. (and that's generous/polite on my part) The fact that it included voice acting was impressive for the time, but the gameplay was so bad that it begs the question of what the developers were thinking. Picture a Sonic game where there are no rings at all in the level (meaning that you die in one hit), the screen is zoomed in (meaning that you can barely see what's ahead of you if you're running), and there's fall damage.

It would be like giving Birdemic an Oscar - there's no reason to do it.

I never said I wanted Bubsy because of his redeeming qualities (which there are, do not get me wrong - no game has no redeeming qualities, and there's a lot to love about the Bubsy games if you look hard enough - especially 3D considering its historical context) - I explicitly said I wanted Bubsy because his games are considered legendarily bad, because I think that is an accomplishment which should be celebrated. And like, if there was a crossover fighter themed on being "a celebration of cinema history", could you really argue against including The Room? or all the 60s B-movies? There's an argument for not making them a priority, but there's no argument for excluding them.

 

[Oracle Link]

Those new Spirits coming next month got me thinking about what if Smash Ultimate got a Booster Course Pass style expansion with new characters, stages, music, mii costumes and echoes.

So I made it, I tried to make it somewhat believable

Spoiler

		Characters				Stages				Mii Costumes
83	Octoling		Splatoon		Gone Fission Hydroplant		Splatoon		Clive	Swordfighter	Final Fantasy
84	Chun-li		Street Fighter		Metro City		Street Fighter		Black Mask	Swordfighter	Persona
85	Alear		Fire Emblem		Somniel		Fire Emblem		Solaire	Swordfighter	Dark Souls
86	Noah		Xenoblade Chronicles		Erythia Sea		Xenoblade Chronicles		Shiver	Gunner	Splatoon
87	Mio		Xenoblade Chronicles		Starfall Islands		Sonic The Hedgehog		Leon	Gunner	Resident Evil
88	Dr. Eggman		Sonic The Hedgehog		Area Zero		Pokemon		Cuddle Team Leader	Gunner	Fortnite
		Echoes							Frye	Brawler	Splatoon
12e	Scream Tail		Pokemon						Jin Kazama (Tekken 8)	Brawler	Tekken
63e	Jeanne		Bayonetta						Matthew	Brawler	Xenoblade
									Big Man Mask	Hat	Splatoon
									Sommie	Hat	Fire Emblem
									Headcrab	Hat	Half-life

I also have a whole list of 200 songs but like that is way too much to paste here.

I know its somewhat believable but the fact that the same franchises get Character AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN is extremly frustrating!
Pokemon, Fire Emblem and Mario should take a break and Zelda, kirby or heck do an Earthbound rep!
The kirby situation wouldnt even be an issue if we had a good kirby fighters aka having tons of diffrent kirby characters instead of just kirby 30 times!

 

[Megadoomer]

Each time this thread goes through Wishlist season, i just how to do guys are capable of having list at 25+ and then beyond? Doesn't not seem much and leaves one up more to disappointment. Especially depending on how long you been with the series

I can barely come up with 5 actual wants. I already got burned with wanting 2.

The way I see it, having a lot of wants makes it easier to be happy with what we do get. For example, if my only want for Smash Ultimate was Waluigi, I would have been extremely disappointed when he was revealed to be an assist trophy. However, there were quite a few characters that I wanted to see - Ridley, K. Rool, Geno, Doomguy, Dante from the Devil May Cry series, Banjo and Kazooie...

Sure, all of them might not have made it in, but I was extremely satisfied with the ones that did, which helped a lot in the long run and softened the blow for the ones that didn't get in.

 

[Oracle Link]

I never said I wanted Bubsy because of his redeeming qualities (which there are, do not get me wrong - no game has no redeeming qualities, and there's a lot to love about the Bubsy games if you look hard enough) - I explicitly said I wanted Bubsy because his games are considered legendarily bad, because I think that is an accomplishment which should be celebrated.

Sorry for double posting but this post came after mine!
But Bubsy isnt THAT Bad thop right?
I mean sure Bubsy 3d Is ABsolute Legendary Garbage but ive heard that the other bubsy games are atleast Not "Legendarily" Bad!

 

[Megadoomer]

Sorry for double posting but this post came after mine!
But Bubsy isnt THAT Bad thop right?
I mean sure Bubsy 3d Is ABsolute Legendary Garbage but ive heard that the other bubsy games are atleast Not "Legendarily" Bad!

The first game was an awful Sonic the Hedgehog knock-off, and by my understanding, things don't improve much from there. It's not fundamentally broken like Big Rigs: Off the Road Racing (where a programming error makes it so the AI trucks can't win a race and there's no upper limit for speed when a vehicle is going in reverse)...

...but compared to the third party franchises that we have gotten in Smash (Metal Gear, Sonic the Hedgehog, Final Fantasy, Castlevania, Bayonetta, Street Fighter, etc.), it's a massive downgrade.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The whole meme with Bubsy is that his games are just "okay" and yet he somehow always comes back.

I know its somewhat believable but the fact that the same franchises get Character AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN is extremly frustrating!
Pokemon, Fire Emblem and Mario should take a break and Zelda, kirby or heck do an Earthbound rep!
The kirby situation wouldnt even be an issue if we had a good kirby fighters aka having tons of diffrent kirby characters instead of just kirby 30 times!

The thing with earthbound is that you cant really do a whole lot beyond what we already have.
Maybe make Ninten an echo of Ness to have all three heroes but thats about it.

 

[Oracle Link]

The whole meme with Bubsy is that his games are just "okay" and yet he somehow always comes back.


The thing with earthbound is that you cant really do a whole lot beyond what we already have.
Maybe make Ninten an echo of Ness to have all three heroes but thats about it.

You could do Porky as hes a pretty great villain!
Or if you wanna do the echo route what about Gyiyg?

You still rep mother one that way while also doing a villain thats an echo!
Ninten would honestly be a waste of a slot
1. We already have a ness echo
2. This is how ninten canonically looks like:

He just looks like a slightly more ugly/ Unfinnished ness!
3. Itoi himself stated you can see ninten and ness as the same character!
I get repping Mother 1 but thats best done by making giyig as a mewtu Echo!
Also Gyiyg is the (one of the) most known parts of mother 2!
(And yes gyiyg is giegue/ Giygas i just think giving the same character two names is dumb and porkys name was fixed in smash too!)
Also i will make a 5 character/ concept wishlist for smash 6!
I swapped y and i arround ups!

 

[Megadoomer]

The thing with earthbound is that you cant really do a whole lot beyond what we already have.
Maybe make Ninten an echo of Ness to have all three heroes but thats about it.

The major villains could also be options - Mother 1 Giygas might be a bit similar to Mewtwo physically from what little we can see of him, but Porky could potentially work, and while I haven't played Mother 3 (I'm aware of plot details, though), the Masked Man seems like he has potential.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And like, if there was a crossover fighter themed on being "a celebration of cinema history",

When you celebrate something, you want to...uh...focus on the good stuff. This should be obvious. The Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame didn't nominate Rebecca Black because she had an infamously bad song for example.