Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

What does this even mean? That I don't use enough unique words? That doesn't matter as long as it's clear. Which is always the most important.

I honestly can't tell if you're trying to insult me or something because of how you phrased this. And I don't want to assume you're trying to be insulting either, of course. Please elaborate

That was meant to be a “be glad you’re not me” post. Referring to my own inarticulateness and volcab

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That was meant to be a “be glad you’re not me” post. Referring to my own inarticulateness and volcab

Yeah, I honestly couldn't get that due to the oddity of said wording.

Understandable. I do feel you're able to often do so. My suggestion is to take a bit longer on a post and not worry about "posting fast" instead. You don't need a thesasarus. Just a bit more patience is enough.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, I honestly couldn't get that due to the oddity of said wording.

Understandable. I do feel you're able to often do so. My suggestion is to take a bit longer on a post and not worry about "posting fast" instead. You don't need a thesasarus. Just a bit more patience is enough.

To be honest I post the way I talk. But you’re right I do need more patience

 

[MrMcNuts]

Hope everyone everyone here is having a happy holiday!

Have a scrumptious naked Rayman from today's Rayman 4 prototype leak

 

[Lionfranky]

Unfortunately, it's a niche series that basically doesn't get a lot of attention on this forum. Smashboards has its own bubble, so some series simply won't gain attention here. Regardless of how notable they are otherwise. Tis life. I've seen some LP's of it and it's pretty cool, that said.

Neptunia is outside of radar even if you ignore Smash bubble. Even its fanbase knows that it doesn't stand chance at getting rep. It's not a series known for quality or legacy. As someone who has oc based on this series and invested lots of time on it, I can say it doesn't deserve rep at all. Even Spirit may be generous at this point.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Neptunia is outside of radar even if you ignore Smash bubble. Even its fanbase knows that it doesn't stand chance at getting rep. It's not a series known for quality or legacy. As someone who has oc based on this series and invested lots of time on it, I can say it doesn't deserve rep at all. Even Spirit may be generous at this point.

Seconding Neptuinia being niche; Neptunia is niche even within the JRPG spectrum. It has its fans but honestly outside of a few JRPG diehards, I rarely see Neptunia brought up at all in “the wild”. It also does not help that the games are a bit… divisive? I haven’t played them personally, but I have seen almost as much ire towards them for as much love toward them.

Obviously I ain’t saying stop liking Neptunia or saying that you shouldn’t want it in smash. Just that I could name other series that would get in smash first as JRPGs.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Have a scrumptious naked Rayman from today's Rayman 4 prototype leak
View attachment 365542

Man, that's NSFW.
Put a spoiler.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Man, that's NSFW.
Put a spoiler.

Embrace it. Savor it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As someone who has oc based on this series and invested lots of time on it, I can say it doesn't deserve rep at all. Even Spirit may be generous at this point.

...This doesn't correlate or make any sense at all.

It's just another work. Deserving is subjective and you really aren't providing a single legitimate view on why it shouldn't be in at all. It being niche is meaningless, as niche works get content all the time. Do you have a point to make other than condemning it for the sake of it?

 

[AinsOoalGown]

Seconding Neptuinia being niche; Neptunia is niche even within the JRPG spectrum. It has its fans but honestly outside of a few JRPG diehards, I rarely see Neptunia brought up at all in “the wild”. It also does not help that the games are a bit… divisive? I haven’t played them personally, but I have seen almost as much ire towards them for as much love toward them.

Obviously I ain’t saying stop liking Neptunia or saying that you shouldn’t want it in smash. Just that I could name other series that would get in smash first as JRPGs.

When you have to bring online "ire" of a game you specifically knows nothing of and never played, youre already in the wrong no matter which game or context

specially the case with genres like rpgs that have "hatedoms" that dedicate their entire lives to destroy it, including "influencers" like certain youtubers that hate the genre or japanese stuff and do entire series/campaigns etc trying to force others to hate it too or set in crusades to convince others with "malicious" vitrol that its bad because x or y, etc. And if you still see so much "love" despite that its even more of a sign that theres vitrol. Same with specific entries in series, one would think Brawl was a flop based on ire when it was a huge seller and had many fans of its own back then outside bubles.

Same goes for other genres and specific franchises too, big and small, never use ire as a metric to what you dont know, not even getting in how social media and bubbles distort, it those were basis, even something as big as nintendo itself would have go under years ago because there were a lot of online people shocked when the switch was a hit despite reports as "online ire" tricked them everybody hated for example (thats a thing I saw some types say around 2017).

Lets not even get in the crowds that act shocked at past Smash aditions because their bubles got them away from realizing those were known even when it was some big fish. Theres examples of both big, medium and small franchises that show how much this online ire means most of time: nothing.

 

[fogbadge]

Hope everyone everyone here is having a happy holiday!

Have a scrumptious naked Rayman from today's Rayman 4 prototype leak
View attachment 365542

not the most peculiar way to celebrate i've seen

 

[Lionfranky]

...This doesn't correlate or make any sense at all.

It's just another work. Deserving is subjective and you really aren't providing a single legitimate view on why it shouldn't be in at all. It being niche is meaningless, as niche works get content all the time. Do you have a point to make other than condemning it for the sake of it?

The best game in the series is decent at best, and that's being generous. The gameplay is nothing to write home about. The first game in the series was heavily criticized for horrendous gameplay. It was saved by gaming industry parody and characters. Actually, western market saved this series as it sold more on west. Later entries did indeed change and improve a lot, but still fall short of quality standard compared to other candidates like little to no strategy involving gameplay, reused assets, empty, repetitive environments, etc. Before, you say this applies to other games, Neptunia has these problems way worse. Even the most recent entry 'Sister vs Sister' has these issues. Dungeon puzzle was half baked at best there. I wish Neptunia improves way more than this, but I guess Compile Heart doesn't have resources. It's just that Neptunia doesn't have anything going for it. It hasn't set any legacy or quality that other jrpg contenders have.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

When you have to bring online "ire" of a game you specifically knows nothing of and never played, youre already in the wrong no matter which game or context

specially the case with genres like rpgs that have "hatedoms" that dedicate their entire lives to destroy it, including "influencers" like certain youtubers that hate the genre or japanese stuff and do entire series/campaigns etc trying to force others to hate it too or set in crusades to convince others with "malicious" vitrol that its bad because x or y, etc. And if you still see so much "love" despite that its even more of a sign that theres vitrol. Same with specific entries in series, one would think Brawl was a flop based on ire when it was a huge seller and had many fans of its own back then outside bubles.

Same goes for other genres and specific franchises too, big and small, never use ire as a metric to what you dont know, not even getting in how social media and bubbles distort, it those were basis, even something as big as nintendo itself would have go under years ago because there were a lot of online people shocked when the switch was a hit despite reports as "online ire" tricked them everybody hated for example (thats a thing I saw some types say around 2017).

Lets not even get in the crowds that act shocked at past Smash aditions because their bubles got them away from realizing those were known even when it was some big fish. Theres examples of both big, medium and small franchises that show how much this online ire means most of time: nothing.

You assume I know nothing about the series when all I state is that I have not played them personally. Would I know as much as someone who played through every game three times? No, but I know plenty of people who did. Some liked them, others didn’t. I’ve also seen people who just could not get into the series due to a rough first two games. I find it honestly disgusting that you think that puts me automatically in the wrong. Let’s break down what I said bullet point style.

• Neptunia is niche, even among JRPG fans
• The games also are contentious in the RPG community. Plenty of people love them but the reception is more mixed.

For saying this, because I even suggested there was any dislike towards Neptunia, I am somehow in the wrong. Browse most rpg circles, check most reviews, and you would see yourself that Neptunia does have mixed reception. Saying that because I stated something reasonable
I am automatically in the wrong is just gross and disingenuous.

Let me clarify: almost all or the Neptunia ire is from RPG fans. This is not some broad swath JRPG bad hatedom that misrepresents the games: it is the target audience. It’s not like Neptunia is a stranger to mixed reviews either. The games tend to top out at a low 70 at best on Metacritic. Heck, the first four games topped out with an average in the mid 50s. I’ve seen plenty of JRPG fans say that the games just in a nuts and bolts sense disappoint compared to other JRPGs in the genre. While the parody aspects broadly I have seen are liked, I’ve seen plenty of ire from, and I stress this again, JRPG fans, that Neptunia’s gameplay can be lacking. Neptunia getting criticism and people not liking it isn’t news to its fans. Every Neptunia fan I have met at least acknowledges part of the criticism, the positives of the characters, parody aspects, and world building are enough for them to overlook their issues with the game.

My bigger issue is how you broadly paint that any ire must be from some online hate base or minimize it entirely. Do hate bases exist? Sure, but they are nowhere near as widespread as you are claiming. The real problem is you seem to be painting any dissatisfaction or criticism as actively hating on the game or being in a bubble. No gaming community is a monolith. People have their own individual opinions on games and will differ from each other. Some things do tend to be more agreed on, be it positive or negative sure. But disliking something does not automatically put you in a bubble or make it so you are in league with some organized campaign against the genre.

Criticism can be healthy. You should be able to look at something and talk about your issues with it. Criticism helps games get better. Think of games like No Man’s Sky, where over time they managed to turn it into a genuinely great game. You have games like Persona 5 Royal or Breath of the Wild which listened to plenty of fan desires while also making tons of quality of life changes fans wanted. Saying that Neptunia for instance isn’t all that due to its mediocre combat systems could be helpful to make a genuinely great Neptunina game down the line.

Heck, as I was tying this, Lionfrankly, who is a fan of the series, posted this. Basically summing up some of my points of Neptunia criticism.

The best game in the series is decent at best, and that's being generous. The gameplay is nothing to write home about. The first game in the series was heavily criticized for horrendous gameplay. It was saved by gaming industry parody and characters. Actually, western market saved this series as it sold more on west. Later entries did indeed change and improve a lot, but still fall short of quality standard compared to othetlr candidates like little to no strategy involving gameplay, reused assets, empty, repetitive environments, etc. Before, you say this applies to other games, Neptunia has these problems way worse. Even the most recent entey 'Sister vs Sister' has these issues. Dungeon puzzle was half baked ar best there. I wish Neptunia improves way more than this, but I gueas Compile Heart doesn't have resources. It just that Neptunia doesn't have anything going for it. It hasn't set any legacy or quality that other jrpg contenders have.

 

[Sucumbio]

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[fogbadge]

Merry Christmas everyone!

merry christmas

 

[Diddy Kong]

Merry Christmas.

Speaking niche RPGs that are actually good and actually popular, why not have Golden Sun?

Everybody loves a Golden Sun, even when it's winter solstice.

Okay bye.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If I'm choosing a JRPG to add, it's definitely Quest 64. Golden Sun, Neptunia, and so on would make cool additions too. Tales of at least does have content, so it doesn't feel missing in general, but it's one of the very big ones with no playable character yet.

Essentially, I don't really care if it's niche or controversial. It's still a work with fans, and that alone sounds deserving for content. It's another piece of gaming history. No, I don't care if it's not "perfect" or has downsides. All games do. That doesn't speak to me remotely of deserving. All it tells me is this is probably why it's unlikely to be chosen, but that's pretty much it.

Basically, when you go so far to say as "doesn't even deserve a spirit", it's no longer a reasonable take. It's just another game. I can get why you don't think it should have a playable character, which is a major thing, but simply a minor cameo? That's severe bias and there's quite literally no game that is undeserving of a minor cameo to begin with. Ever. They're just games. The only reason they shouldn't get one is that it's not possible to license said image without an immense amount of money, and that's not even that simple either. Since context obviously applies(I.E. some games are going to be expensive to license but are more than just Spirits).

 

[fogbadge]

All this talk of RPGs makes me wonder if there’s such a thing as a ukrpg

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

All this talk of RPGs makes me wonder if there’s such a thing as a ukrpg

There isn't. But that's because Western and Eastern RPG's are based upon specific design styles, and the Middle East/Middle West never mattered in that regard. Hilariously the term "American Game" has nothing to do with said design style and it's more accurate to say that refers to the country it's made in. Eastern RPG's did, as I noted before, start in Japan(but also has had games outside of Japan but still in the Eastern region. It's why JRPG is depreciated as a full term, due to its inaccuracy. Same reason why Console RPG stopped being used, as well as Computer RPG. They just stopped making sense as things evolved).

If someone starts making RPG's in the UK that doesn't follow the Eastern or Western design style, then it's possible for one to exist, but it's pretty unlikely anyway. That, and some games can be both an Eastern and Western RPG by using tropes from each.

 

[fogbadge]

There isn't. But that's because Western and Eastern RPG's are based upon specific design styles, and the Middle East/Middle West never mattered in that regard. Hilariously the term "American Game" has nothing to do with said design style and it's more accurate to say that refers to the country it's made in. Eastern RPG's did, as I noted before, start in Japan(but also has had games outside of Japan but still in the Eastern region. It's why JRPG is depreciated as a full term, due to its inaccuracy. Same reason why Console RPG stopped being used, as well as Computer RPG. They just stopped making sense as things evolved).

If someone starts making RPG's in the UK that doesn't follow the Eastern or Western design style, then it's possible for one to exist, but it's pretty unlikely anyway. That, and some games can be both an Eastern and Western RPG by using tropes from each.

I have the overwhelming urge to make one

 

[Ivander]

All this talk of RPGs makes me wonder if there’s such a thing as a ukrpg

It would be called a Western RPG. Since the UK is part of Europe and Europe is part of the West. Heck, it was originally the West before America was discovered.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I have the overwhelming urge to make one

I mean, as I said, it wouldn't really be one, but sure, go for it! It'd be neat to see how unique you can make it. There's a lot of cool programs to use, depending on the money you can spend, anyway.

 

[fogbadge]

I mean, as I said, it wouldn't really be one, but sure, go for it! It'd be neat to see how unique you can make it. There's a lot of cool programs to use, depending on the money you can spend, anyway.

Money? Well that’s that plan ended before it began

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Money? Well that’s that plan ended before it began

...I mean, you have to buy the game program to make it, don't you? You can possibly find a cheap/free version of RPG Maker if lucky, but if you want to sell the game itself, it's better to just buy the thing. It's not that pricey for these things, usually a single new game. You do not want to pirate a game maker and try to sell anything from it. There's a lot of specific programming that can hurt your game/cause bugs if the game maker is pirated. For instance, Smile Game Builder is designed so it'll run if you are the one who bought it. It's admittedly pricey, but you can probably find something more in the 40 dollars range(for a quality thing), which is pretty good, imo.

 

[fogbadge]

...I mean, you have to buy the game program to make it, don't you? You can possibly find a cheap/free version of RPG Maker if lucky, but if you want to sell the game itself, it's better to just buy the thing. It's not that pricey for these things, usually a single new game. You do not want to pirate a game maker and try to sell anything from it. There's a lot of specific programming that can hurt your game/cause bugs if the game maker is pirated. For instance, Smile Game Builder is designed so it'll run if you are the one who bought it. It's admittedly pricey, but you can probably find something more in the 40 dollars range(for a quality thing), which is pretty good, imo.

I’ll take a look

 

[Capybara Gaming]

In regards to the Neptunia conversation, let me put it this way: I'm pretty in-tune with just about everything in the gaming industry. I'm aware of the majority of franchises, and the fact of the matter is I was only aware of the Neptunia anime series, not the fact that there were games, up until only recently, as in, the last few months; looking into it, while there are a large amount of games, the franchise is neither a triple A franchise, a retro or legacy IP, a console exclusive series, nor an indie series, and that fact alone puts them into a very small niche, even among niches.

You can want or not want Neptunia, but when she's more niche than Ys or Disgaea, I think it's probably safe to say she's extremely low on the priority list of third party characters. I would honestly bet on Club Penguin getting in before her.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Merry Christmas everybody

 

[Laniv]

Happy holidays! Question, is it okay to post holiday-themed Smash art here, or is that for another thread?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In regards to the Neptunia conversation, let me put it this way: I'm pretty in-tune with just about everything in the gaming industry. I'm aware of the majority of franchises, and the fact of the matter is I was only aware of the Neptunia anime series, not the fact that there were games, up until only recently, as in, the last few months; looking into it, while there are a large amount of games, the franchise is neither a triple A franchise, a retro or legacy IP, a console exclusive series, nor an indie series, and that fact alone puts them into a very small niche, even among niches.

You can want or not want Neptunia, but when she's more niche than Ys or Disgaea, I think it's probably safe to say she's extremely low on the priority list of third party characters. I would honestly bet on Club Penguin getting in before her.

Nobody was actually debating its likeliness(it's pretty agreed it's unlikely), but the unnecessary and too subjective idea of "deservedness", which doesn't make for a very good conversation to be had in that context.

--------------

Also, Merry Christmas, all~

 

[DarthEnderX]

Score! My nieces gave me the SNES mini I got them 5 years ago since they have most of those games on Switch now.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I would honestly bet on Club Penguin getting in before her.

Requesting permission to use this as an excuse to talk about Club Penguin in Smash.

 

[Laniv]

Merry Christmas! Enjoy some art I made of some Assist Trophies in the snow:

 

[chocolatejr9]

Merry Christmas! Enjoy some art I made of some Assist Trophies in the snow:

View attachment 365583

Takamaru: Hold still, I need to cut off your tongue...

 

[Geno Boost]

Sumo Santa for smash

 

[chocolatejr9]

Sumo Santa for smash

I'm... not sure they can get away with that.

Bad Mr. Frosty would be cool, though.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeeeeeesss...talk more about Arthur, Sakurai...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm... not sure they can get away with that.

Bad Mr. Frosty would be cool, though.

Honestly, it's just some Claytalities that don't work. His normal moveset is pretty fair for Smash. Especially since it's as bad as Wario's. Santa Claus is also public domain, so it's not a legality issue.

I do agree Bad Mr. Frosty is a better choice, though.

 

[Lionfranky]

On my part, I didn't say Neptunia should never get any kind of contents. It's just that based on criteria of third party that got contents even Spirit is still tough to receive, not impossible. But, I was taking about fighter slot in line with deserving status. Sorry if I wasn't obvious enough. Unless, Neptunia series take huge turn of event and produce quality game like Persona 5, I don't see why it will get fighter slot when we still have tons of candidates even in jrpg. I mean I would be all over the moom if that happens, but with their current leadership, I doubt it.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm... not sure they can get away with that.

anyone else read that in eggman's adventure voice?

 

[chocolatejr9]

STEINS;GATE dev 'MAGES' entering insolvency https://t.co/XgZ22lMD0L pic.twitter.com/ciTROiMntp

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) December 26, 2022

IDK how many people here care about MAGES (though I DO remember there was a support thread for the main character of Steins:Gate at one point), but I can't help but feel bad if they end up going bankrupt from this...