Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

So, what do you think of the fanbase's general shift from Nintendo characters to third party ones?

I love that so many franchises are being considered and included, but it really does feel like something was lost.

Personal, I like to try and keep that balance that Smash has already. Prioritize Nintendo newcomers with a couple third party newcomers for the base game, and prioritize third party newcomers of different levels of popularity with the occasional Nintendo shill pick for DLC.

 

[Guynamednelson]

So, what do you think of the fanbase's general shift from Nintendo characters to third party ones?

I love that so many franchises are being considered and included, but it really does feel like something was lost.

I think people are forgetting that it's only during DLC where they go all-in on third-party newcomers. And last time I checked most of us think it's extremely unlikely or next to impossible that what we're getting next is more DLC for SSBU.

 

[BritishGuy54]

So, what do you think of the fanbase's general shift from Nintendo characters to third party ones?

I love that so many franchises are being considered and included, but it really does feel like something was lost.

It does kind of suck when new faces from Nintendo just get labelled as ‘shill picks’.

With a new game likely coming, it could make the talk among fans go in two different directions. Either raising the stakes further for third parties, with bigger and more hype names getting in, or the other, and sadly, more likely option in my eyes…

A more limited inclusion of third parties, with certain companies not ending up in the base roster.

I do feel like if the latter happened, something else would end up lost. But I suppose times change, and prominent series and companies change too.

 

[Louie G.]

Here’s an interesting roster challenge we can all try:

• The original 12
• 10 veterans from Melee
• 10 veterans from Brawl
• 10 veterans from Smash 4
• 10 veterans from Ultimate
• 12 newcomers
• 6 Echo Fighters

Welp, this is as good a way to waste my morning as any. I think I might have done this before, but it's been a bit.

Spoiler: Smash 64

Spoiler: Melee

Not much to explain here, right? 10 characters allows me to bring back all the unique faces and Ganondorf / Falco are the obvious standouts within the lineup of last minute clones. Seems like that's what everyone else did too.

Spoiler: Brawl

I think the boldest move I'm making here is not bringing back any of the Pokemon. To be blunt, Charizard and Lucario are not that interesting to me - I'd rather bring back the more fresh and fun additions, and I like the Pokemon added in the next two games way more. Unfortunately that came at the expense of Lucas too, I wanted to keep him around for my own self-indulgence but Wolf won out as the more distinct semiclone. He's just too cool.

Spoiler: Smash 4

Villager is only cut because I'm able to prioritize different Animal Crossing content later, so it opens up a slot. Smash 4 introduced a bunch of new series so I'd like to maintain as many as I can. I've been torn up over whether to keep Palutena or Duck Hunt but I suppose it's more productive to keep around the one representing their own game... so another self-indulgent pick loses out. Maybe I'm too selfless.

Spoiler: Ultimate

I'm maintaining Ultimate's perfect lineup of base game newcomers - seriously, I love all these guys so much - so that'll leave four openings to bring back DLC characters. Honestly, I think I'm motivated by moveset efficiency and I think all of these characters manage to be fun and creative without being too overwhelmingly gimmicky or complex. That's ultimately what snubbed out Min-Min, Steve, Kazuya or Hero for me.

Terry and Sephiroth are just an absolute joy and even though I didn't grow up on Banjo, keeping them around just feels right. Pyra / Mythra survive by virtue of their stance change mechanic (I'm cheating and keeping them both, sorry).

Spoiler: Newcomers

Whenever I answer this question, I try and find a good middle ground between what I like and what I think makes sense. So this isn't exactly my 100% self indulgent lineup of newcomers - that'd have characters like Morrigan or Marina Liteyears in it - but they're all characters I'd be super happy to see.

Skull Kid - Just oozes coolness and fantastic moveset potential. Full disclosure, I'm not really a Zelda fan perse. I don't dislike the series, but I'm not the most invested in it either. I just think Skull Kid emits such obvious potential to be a great character, he's remained popular all these years and I'd like to see Zelda break out of its rut. Would be a great pick.

Porky - Was kinda stumped for one last Nintendo character and decided to go with someone a bit self-serving. Smash doesn't really have a "true" mech character, and furthermore I think Porky is a great Nintendo villain whose influence spans two games in his otherwise rotating cast series (which is also one of my favorite series, and Mother 3 is my favorite game). If I'm gonna have to lose Lucas I'll throw myself a bone here.

Tom Nook - The co-mascot of Animal Crossing and straight up the most obvious addition to the series. He's got a lot of fun potential that I've went into in the past. And with Villager unfortunately gone we have to pick up some slack here, the series has continued to grow exponentially.

Off the Hook - Splatoon is one of Nintendo's heavy hitters nowadays and it has a bunch of colorful characters that I'd love to play as. The idols are some of the most popular characters in the series, and Off the Hook particularly stands out for their distinctive designs and lovable dynamic. I'm so starved for any character carrying some kind of music oriented moveset so I'm going to overcompensate a bit as you'll see.

Chorus Kids - The other musical character. Rhythm Heaven is my favorite series absent from the roster and it would mean the world to me if it finally happened. We've never had a rhythm game character in Smash, and its unique potential essentially writes itself.

Isaac - A fan favorite and probably the most prominently requested new Nintendo series to join the roster. He's grown on me a lot over time and I think being a mage swordsman who specializes in earth and plant based magic is something so different than anything we've seen thus far.

Excitebiker - My preferred "throwback" pick lately. I used to be all in on Mach Rider, but I appreciate the simplicity of a mount character who is just all about their bike instead of complicating it with flashy guns and stuff... as cool as it would be. There's just a lot of charm to this little guy and either way, I just want someone who is always riding around on a bike and attacking with BMX tricks.

---
Chun-Li - The leading lady of fighting games and the effective co-protagonist of one of the most influential series on the roster. She's a no-brainer.

Jill Valentine - Capcom has too many amazing choices and I think Resident Evil has earned their share. If you can't tell by the time you're done reading this, I'm really trying to reach into other game genres to diversify both the audience the roster is catering to and the style of play that can be brought out by capturing their respective essence. There are a few viable picks from the series, but my favorite is Jill.

Arle - My other most wanted character. We've never had a dedicated, unique puzzle game rep in Smash and I think she'd be a mechanically fresh stage control / trap oriented character with largely vertical projectiles rather than horizontal. Puyo is also one of the bigger series without any content in Smash and has a rich history with Nintendo, down to outright reskinning a game and releasing it as a Kirby title.

Sans - When bringing in contemporary guest characters, there aren't a lot of games as wide encompassing and beloved as Undertale. It's huge on a worldwide scale and Sans is especially popular. He's one of my favorite characters too, and I foresee him having an incredibly fun moveset based around his prankster personality just as well as his mysterious powers.

Master Chief - Screw it, with Microsoft's continued support I think this ought to happen. FPS games are some of the biggest out there nowadays and Chief is to that genre what Cloud is to RPGs. While my priority isn't necessarily for Smash to be the biggest crossover ever, I think having some of that flavor is still fun and having icons distinctly tied to some of the biggest competitors is pretty satisfying. Mario, Sonic, Cloud and Master Chief... cool.

Spoiler: Echo Fighters

+ Shadow, Octoling, Leon Kennedy

Three old, three new. The assumption is Daisy and Dark Samus will be iterated on further, and idk what to do with Richter but he should stay anyway. Ken gets the boot just because I don't want to overplay my hand with Capcom any more than I already have. I almost added Amitie as an Arle echo fighter, but decided to throw Sonic fans a bone with Shadow instead.

 

[Noipoi]

So, what do you think of the fanbase's general shift from Nintendo characters to third party ones?

I love that so many franchises are being considered and included, but it really does feel like something was lost.

On the one hand I think it's very cool how much people have opened up to third party possibilities. A while ago things felt more insular, anything not Nintendo was sacrilege.

But now I feel like things have shifted a bit too much in the opposite direction. The fandom seems to write off any Nintendo character as lame and boring, when I think that's just unfair.

 

[SharkLord]

So, what do you think of the fanbase's general shift from Nintendo characters to third party ones?

I love that so many franchises are being considered and included, but it really does feel like something was lost.

I think the "something" is cohesion. Yeah, it's awesome seeing so many third-parties. Most of my desired characters are theird-parties themselves, so I probably don't have any room to speak here. But even so, "Nintendo fighting game" is a much tighter connection than just "general video game crossover." With a general Nintendo focus, there's more room for smaller fan-favorites or less relevant characters. When it becomes "gaming all-stars," it's suddenly a race for the most "relevant" and "impactful" characters, who "deserve" be added to Smash. There's was probably some of that before, but now that the stakes are raised I think that mindset got a big boost.

Of course, Ultimate is A: An oddball with how many characters it has, and B: Had most of it's fighters as DLC, which meant it could go wild with third-parties - Presumably, it's easier to license a third-party for a DLC pack instead of paying even more royalties for the base game. I do believe we'll return to the Nintendo-centric status quo next game, at least until the DLC kicks in. But we'll have to wait and see

It does kind of suck when new faces from Nintendo just get labelled as ‘shill picks’.

With a new game likely coming, it could make the talk among fans go in two different directions. Either raising the stakes further for third parties, with bigger and more hype names getting in, or the other, and sadly, more likely option in my eyes…

A more limited inclusion of third parties, with certain companies not ending up in the base roster.

I do feel like if the latter happened, something else would end up lost. But I suppose times change, and prominent series and companies change too.

Honestly? I kinda have a soft spot for the "shill" picks. Each Smash game is something of a snapshot into the state of Nintendo at the time of release - The constantly changing Zelda designs, whoever the most recent Fire Emblem Lord/Avatar is, fighters like Lucas or Palutena who starred in recent games at the time but haven't seen many recent appearances beyond Smash. And honestly? That works in Smash's favor; Each Smash games' is an extension of their console's identity.

Though Ultimate throws a wrench in that by being planned before the Switch was released and prioritizing veterans and the ballot above all else, so we only got a couple early Switch characters as DLC. I'm hoping Smash 6 can cover some mid/late-Switch era characters and stages, especially since the Switch has a killer lineup built up over last almost-decade

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’d be surprised if all 12 newcomers were Nintendo, but 10 feels fine, honestly.

Fully half of Ultimate's newcomers were 3P. And I expect that trend to continue.

So, what do you think of the fanbase's general shift from Nintendo characters to third party ones?

Positively.

 

[osby]

It feels like Smash fandom in general becomes less and less accepting of new things with each installment.

When getting introduced to a new series was a fun novelty in the past, now it's an active threat against people's most wanted characters whose slots are stolen by these new weirdos. So it's easier for the fanbase to stomach big-deal third parties rather than Nintendo characters that has the gall to be younger than 20 years.

 

[SharkLord]

It feels like Smash fandom in general becomes less and less accepting of new things with each installment.

When getting introduced to a new series was a fun novelty in the past, now it's an active threat against people's most wanted characters whose slots are stolen by these new weirdos. So it's easier for the fanbase to stomach big-deal third parties rather than Nintendo characters that has the gall to be younger than 20 years.

I think it's largely because of Ultimate's unique setup. Base game had far less newcomers, and half of them were Echo Fighters. DLC was, well, DLC, so we knew there were much less slots available, so each new fighter was a another slot filled. On top of that, third-parties became the default in DLC rather than an occasional bonus, so there was a big focus on who "deserved" to be in Smash. I think the smaller amount of newcomers, broadened scope, and the DLC hype-mania pushed a lot of people into a much more competitive mindset.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It feels like Smash fandom in general becomes less and less accepting of new things with each installment.

When getting introduced to a new series was a fun novelty in the past, now it's an active threat against people's most wanted characters whose slots are stolen by these new weirdos. So it's easier for the fanbase to stomach big-deal third parties rather than Nintendo characters that has the gall to be younger than 20 years.

I think it's largely because of Ultimate's unique setup. Base game had far less newcomers, and half of them were Echo Fighters. DLC was, well, DLC, so we knew there were much less slots available, so each new fighter was a another slot filled. On top of that, third-parties became the default in DLC rather than an occasional bonus, so there was a big focus on who "deserved" to be in Smash. I think the smaller amount of newcomers, broadened scope, and the DLC hype-mania pushed a lot of people into a much more competitive mindset.

The question is...

Can the fanbase recover from this?

 

[Nickthebrick1]

Hey guys, for characters that uses realistic guns (Resident evil protagonist, Hitman, Tomb Raider) would it have to be that if they gotten into smash they couldn't use them or severely downplay them? I know Snake carries a gun, Bayonetta uses guns, and Joker's gun works how I imagined - Snake doesn't use it, Bayonetta's guns are magical, and according to Persona 5 lore Joker's guns are props that can only work like that in the metaverse.

With that being said, aside from the 4th party rule (no non-video game characters allowed in smash, Sakurai even stated this himself) is there also a no realistic gun rule so the esrb doesn't up the game up? I mean... brawl gotten a T rating for some reason.

 

[BritishGuy54]

It feels like Smash fandom in general becomes less and less accepting of new things with each installment.

When getting introduced to a new series was a fun novelty in the past, now it's an active threat against people's most wanted characters whose slots are stolen by these new weirdos. So it's easier for the fanbase to stomach big-deal third parties rather than Nintendo characters that has the gall to be younger than 20 years.

I strongly agree here. The next game could end up being the breaking point for some of these fans when not enough veterans come back, and third parties aren’t as plentiful.

Couple that with the shorter span of time between 4 and Ultimate, and it kind of makes sense why more focus was put on veterans, echoes, and third parties.

I imagine the next game will have a bit of a rough start when it comes to ‘hype’, as more ‘basic’ and ‘shill’ inclusions get added, along with people not differentiating the base roster from the DLC selection. But I think it’ll manage well as people get used to the roster.

 

[Nickthebrick1]

I strongly agree here. The next game could end up being the breaking point for some of these fans when not enough veterans come back, and third parties aren’t as plentiful.

Couple that with the shorter span of time between 4 and Ultimate, and it kind of makes sense why more focus was put on veterans, echoes, and third parties.

I imagine the next game will have a bit of a rough start when it comes to ‘hype’, as more ‘basic’ and ‘shill’ inclusions get added, along with people not differentiating the base roster from the DLC selection. But I think it’ll manage well as people get used to the roster.

Honestly, I think they could mitigate this by introducing characters that are really important to gaming history, overall cool fighting mechanics or adding in highly-wished fan favorites that haven't been added to the series yet.

Equal exchange. I'm suprised this hasn't be discussed among the Smasher's community as much as it should

 

[SharkLord]

The question is...

Can the fanbase recover from this?

There might be a bit of a shock, but if Smash 6 is a normal Smash game I'm sure people will adjust. Going off of Brawl and 4 - Still Nintendo-centric but has enough time and budget to go beyond the main faces and cheap clones - We'll have reveals spaced out over the course of two years until it releases, which should hopefully be enough time for things to settle. And assuming we don't see another Everyone Is Here, there will likely be some popular cut veterans in the DLC, which will likely rein in speculation from the gigaton All-New All-Star Fighters hype train just a bit

Hey guys, for characters that uses realistic guns (Resident evil protagonist, Hitman, Tomb Raider) would it have to be that if they gotten into smash they couldn't use them or severely downplay them? I know Snake carries a gun, Bayonetta uses guns, and Joker's gun works how I imagined - Snake doesn't use it, Bayonetta's guns are magical, and according to Persona 5 lore Joker's guns are props that can only work like that in the metaverse.

With that being said, aside from the 4th party rule (no non-video game characters allowed in smash, Sakurai even stated this himself) is there also a no realistic gun rule so the esrb doesn't up the game up? I mean... brawl gotten a T rating for some reason.

I... Feel like this debate's been had before.

Either way, general consensus is that Joker puts guns on the table. No context is given to Mementos so as far as Smash is concerned it's just a really trippy subway station. There's also supposed to be a little ring on the handle to signify Joker's gun is a replica, but they removed that too, so it's just a capital-G Gun, no strings attached.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I think it's largely because of Ultimate's unique setup. Base game had far less newcomers, and half of them were Echo Fighters. DLC was, well, DLC, so we knew there were much less slots available, so each new fighter was a another slot filled. On top of that, third-parties became the default in DLC rather than an occasional bonus, so there was a big focus on who "deserved" to be in Smash. I think the smaller amount of newcomers, broadened scope, and the DLC hype-mania pushed a lot of people into a much more competitive mindset.

Not to mention how LONG a cycle the DLC ended up becoming. A three-year cycle, which is basically six times the span of what the base game's release window of 8 months was. Even with the handful of first-party DLC inclusions, there simply wasn't enough of those to cancel out the imbalance. Almost HALF of Ultimate's newcomers wound up being guest inclusions. And that's not including the decision to make Simon a base game inclusion and give him an echo at the same time, which technically cuts off a chunk of the base game decisions with a guest focus.
I should note that Smash 4 also had this hype cycle problem, especially once the ESRB leak happened. But that cycle of hype and disappointment only lasted about 15 months, basically a third of the timespan Ultimate's took. I shouldn't have to make the comparison, since I think the 4 cycle technically made me more upset overall, but... Ultimate was the most draining of speculation by a long shot, with basically no competition.

 

[ScrubReborn]

Hey guys, for characters that uses realistic guns (Resident evil protagonist, Hitman, Tomb Raider) would it have to be that if they gotten into smash they couldn't use them or severely downplay them? I know Snake carries a gun, Bayonetta uses guns, and Joker's gun works how I imagined - Snake doesn't use it, Bayonetta's guns are magical, and according to Persona 5 lore Joker's guns are props that can only work like that in the metaverse.

Brawl's T rating couldn't have been for the guns it didn't have. It was probably the blood in one of the Master Hand cutscenes in SSE tbh + maybe the Zero Suit Samus cutscenes

Also yeah Joker's gun is fake, but nobody would know that if they only knew Joker through Smash so it might as well be real. I sure didn't. Most non Persona fans just see a shooty gun.

 

[SharkLord]

Not to mention how LONG a cycle the DLC ended up becoming. A three-year cycle, which is basically six times the span of what the base game's release window of 8 months was. Even with the handful of first-party DLC inclusions, there simply wasn't enough of those to cancel out the imbalance. Almost HALF of Ultimate's newcomers wound up being guest inclusions. And that's not including the decision to make Simon a base game inclusion and give him an echo at the same time which technically cuts off a chunk of the base game decisions with a guest focus.
I should note that Smash 4 also had this hype cycle problem, especially once the ESRB leak happened. But that cycle of hype and disappointment only lasted about 15 months, basically a third of the timespan Ultimate's took. I shouldn't have to make the comparison, since I think the 4 cycle technically made me more upset overall, but... Ultimate was the most draining of speculation by a long shot, with basically no competition.

Yeah, I think the biggest cause was the DLC hype cycle. The vast majority of Ultimate's cycle was the DLC, which is DLC and has multiple months in between the little packs, not to mention the DLC alone being stretched out longer than most announcement-to-release cycles in the past. Once we return to a less frenetic pace I'm sure speculators will either bail from the percieved lack of "hype" or just shrug and slip back into the usual Smash mindset

 

[Guynamednelson]

The question is...

Can the fanbase recover from this?

Maybe? It's partially developed from a mindset that's been forming throughout SSBU speculation in general, where people were acting like every newcomer from here on out will be exactly like the last one. Kazuya meant we'd get a character from a series with a Mii costume, even if it's not the character that got Mii'd. Sephiroth meant we'd get more villains, specifically third-party ones. Steve meant we'd get more 2010s icons. The ARMS rep announcement meant we'd get AT/spirit promos. The characters announced in the August 8 2018 Direct meant we'd get characters like the ones on the Grinch Leak. Inkling meant we'd get characters that were too new for SSB4.

And who's been the last newcomer for two and a half years now is...Sora.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The question is...

Can the fanbase recover from this?

Some people haven't recovered from Corrin yet after over 8 years, iirc.

I don't think I can afford to have hope of the fanbase recovering from anything.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Something else just occurred to me... speculation may have technically been damaged by Sakurai's one E3 2018 remark, directly telling us he hoped to not raise our expectations for newcomers in Ultimate.

 

[SharkLord]

Maybe? It's partially developed from a mindset that's been forming throughout SSBU speculation in general, where people were acting like every newcomer from here on out will be exactly like the last one. Kazuya meant we'd get a character from a series with a Mii costume, even if it's not the character that got Mii'd. Sephiroth meant we'd get more villains, specifically third-party ones. Steve meant we'd get more 2010s icons. The ARMS rep announcement meant we'd get AT/spirit promos. The characters announced in the August 8 2018 Direct meant we'd get characters like the ones on the Grinch Leak. Inkling meant we'd get characters that were too new for SSB4.

And who's been the last newcomer for two and a half years now is...Sora.

I distinctly remember after Kazuya there was a general vibe of "I give up, what the hell." Granted, I was fading out of speculation myself at the time, but I think the theory that Mii Costumes would drop with the associated fighter was considered a pretty safe rule just because it made logical sense to pair them up. After Kazuya disproved that theory, all bets were off.

But yeah, there was a bit of a follow-the-leader mindset back in FP2 speculation

 

[ninjahmos]

Brawl's T rating couldn't have been for the guns it didn't have. It was probably the blood in one of the Master Hand cutscenes in SSE tbh

Then why did Melee have a T rating? Was it because of Crazy Hand or Giga Bowser?

 

[ScrubReborn]

Then why did Melee have a T rating? Was it because of Crazy Hand or Giga Bowser?

The E10+ rating didn't exist back then. I think Melee would easily have been E10+ today

 

[fogbadge]

Here’s an interesting roster challenge we can all try:

• The original 12
• 10 veterans from Melee
• 10 veterans from Brawl
• 10 veterans from Smash 4
• 10 veterans from Ultimate
• 12 newcomers
• 6 Echo Fighters

alright then

64: the 12.
melee: Zelda, Peach, Ganondorf, Bowser, Ice Climbers, Mr Game & Watch, Marth, Pichu, Young Link, Shiek
brawl: Sonic, Pokemon Trainer, Olimar, Wario, Diddy Kong, Lucas, R.o.b., King Dedede, Pit, Toon Link
4: Villager, Shulk, Miis, Megaman, Duck Hunt Duo, Wii Fit Trainer, Pac-Man, Cloud, Rosalina, Ryu
ultimate: Inkling, Isabelle, Sora, Banjo & Kazooie, Min Min, Joker, K. Rool, Ridley, Sephiroth, Byleth (ideally with a new moveset)
New: Toad, Chibi-Robo, Tails, Rex, Isaac, Andy, Ashley Mizuki Robins, Chrous Kids, Professor Layton, Phoenix Wright, Jibanyan, Bandana Dee
echoes: Toadette (toad), Gooigi (luigi), Octoling (inkling), Alph (olimar), Lucina (marth), Roxas (sora)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Something else just occurred to me... speculation may have technically been damaged by Sakurai's one E3 2018 remark, directly telling us he hoped to not raise our expectations for newcomers in Ultimate.

No, the one who truly damaged speculation is whoever had the idea of getting a yellow and purple chair on the Smash Direct of [REDACTED DATE].

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah, to be relatively brief here, I think the goal of getting all these big third party names in with such frequency and quantity has become too much at odds with the goals of fleshing out the Nintendo side of the roster. The rostering philosophy for third party choices is almost completely disjoint from that which is applied to first parties; it would be easier to ignore or even outright accept if the contingent of third parties were smaller, but now it feels almost like Ult has two entirely separate rosters (though of course with the first party side being still much larger).

When it was just Sonic and Mega Man and Pac-Man, with the generally accepted direction being that we'd get a couple more of the most demanded of these types added each game or cycle, it seemed like that was a sustainable pursuit that could run in parallel with or even, most optimistically, as a seamless extension of the larger bulk of the rostering paradigm. Now we've seen a massively accelerated version of that development, more likely than not to a point that cannot be completely sustained, and to a point where the divide between the two segments of the roster has become so seemingly great that we have some people asking for Smash to go in an entirely different direction than before.

 

[Gorgonzales]

No, the one who truly damaged speculation is whoever had the idea of getting a yellow and purple chair on the Smash Direct of [REDACTED DATE].

A Smash dev could absentmindedly scratch his rear on-camera and overzealous hype-beasts would interperet that as a hint toward The Great Mighty Poo joining the battle

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I wonder if there was a certain cynicism about certain newer first party selections that made some fans generally lose interest in certain Nintendo fighters because it didn't seem like their favored franchises would get more new figures, If you're a big Zelda, Kirby, or Wario fan, and sensed that their representation wouldn't be beyond what it is now, then third party characters would start to have more appeal if just for the novelty.

 

[Ivander]

What I think fans of the series should try to do is put priorities where priorities should go. First Parties being prioritized before the game's release should be expected while more 3rd Parties being prioritized during DLC release should be expected.

Before the game's release, fans should be like, "Okay, while there may be a couple new 3rd parties, it will mostly be Nintendo picks. We might get some surprise 1st party picks, we'll also likely get some popular Nintendo picks, and Nintendo will also likely advertise some of their recent successes, so best to set the high expectations regarding 3rd Parties in the back during this time."
While during DLC release, fans should be like: "Okay, it'll mostly be 3rd party picks because Nintendo wants to make sure the DLC gets attention and sells and some 3rd Parties will be more open to letting their characters appear as DLC compared to base game. We may get a couple 1st party picks for recent releases that didn't have the time to get in, but 3rd Parties will be prioritized during this time, who will be the next big characters to enter Smash Bros.?"

 

[BuckleyTim]

You'll look back on Ultimate's speculation period and realize it was practically glib compared to how next game's speculation period will be. Like, the people put off by whatever's cut or changed next entry aren't just going to leave. People who invest in the intricacies of games like Ice Climber aren't just going to leave Smash behind even when it does the inevitable: they'll be voicing how unhappy they are that the game didn't keep doing unfeasible/unsustainable/unwhatever growth till the end of time, and that kind of cynicism will hang over any discussion of the newcomers that doesn't explicitly tell people to knock it off.

and yes the comparison to the pokemon fanbase is inevitable here

 

[osby]

A Smash dev could absentmindedly scratch his rear on-camera and overzealous hype-beasts would interperet that as a hint toward The Great Mighty Poo joining the battle

Sakurai: "Hey, maybe don't expect too many newcomers after this."
Smash fandom: "What did he mean by this???"

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

A Smash dev could absentmindedly scratch his rear on-camera and overzealous hype-beasts would interperet that as a hint toward The Great Mighty Poo joining the battle

No it will be interpreted as a hint at Karate Joe because he scratched his ass once.

This deadass happened because DK scratched his ass in front of a TV in K. Rool's trailer.

 

[Noipoi]

Too many people mistake Sakurai being a little cheeky at times as he’s a blatant liar that lives for spreading misinformation

 

[fogbadge]

Too many people mistake Sakurai being a little cheeky at times as he’s a blatant liar that lives for spreading misinformation

nah, he's more a guy who doesn't put much thought into what he says

 

[Noipoi]

nah, he's more a guy who doesn't put much thought into what he says

Sakurai puts a lot of thought into what he says. He has to. Rabid nerds pick apart his every word for hints towards Klonoa, so he’s gotta be deliberate with his statements.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Too many people mistake Sakurai being a little cheeky at times as he’s a blatant liar that lives for spreading misinformation

I think I remember from before Ultimate's release seeing someone suggest that when Sakurai said "don't expect too many new fighters" at E3 2018, he was actually lying so he could further blow our expectations out of the water. Like... come on, people.

 

[fogbadge]

Sakurai puts a lot of thought into what he says. He has to. Rabid nerds pick apart his every word for hints towards Klonoa, so he’s gotta be deliberate with his statements.

that’s not the same thing as being a liar who lives to spread misinformation

 

[Guynamednelson]

that’s not the same thing as being a liar who lives to spread misinformation

Which he isn't. Quotes that have been misinterpreted=/=An actual desire to lie.

 

[Zerp]

So, what do you think of the fanbase's general shift from Nintendo characters to third party ones?

I love that so many franchises are being considered and included, but it really does feel like something was lost.

I noticed this change as it was happening and weirdly enough... I don't care much, one way or another honestly. Like, don't get me wrong, I have my own character preferences too. But like, it doesn't really matter what the fandom focuses on imo. I tend to talk about whatever characters I wanna talk about, not whoever people think is likely, so it barely affects me. If people write off characters I like instantly for not being cool enough or whatever, then they have every right to do so. I'd say it's their loss really lol. People's thoughts and desires eventually shift with time, so I expect the whole community sentiment to change at least a little every game. I don't feel like we've lost much here, the audience just changed naturally.

Also, mostly unrelated but, the one part I do care for is how toxic social media gets with Smash now. Like, if you say "I want xyz" during speculation season on social media more people will get vile if you're not requesting a big name than in the past. Definitely got significantly more noticeable during Ult's DLC cycle. And, I expect it to get worse each time we get a game or new DLC cycle. But you know, people have always gotten vile over these things. It's just that the characters in the unpopular club shifted around and there's more people in the whole hype cycle now. So I wouldn't even put the blame on that to the fandom's views shifting as much as I'd just ascribe it to "the fandom got bigger, therefore positive and negative social media noise also got bigger".

A Smash dev could absentmindedly scratch his rear on-camera and overzealous hype-beasts would interperet that as a hint toward The Great Mighty Poo joining the battle

Woah, did you just say the new director scratched his butt??? You know who else does that? Wario does! It's a sign guys, WARIO REWORK CONFIRMED!!!

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I think I remember from before Ultimate's release seeing someone suggest that when Sakurai said "don't expect too many new fighters" at E3 2018, he was actually lying so he could further blow our expectations out of the water. Like... come on, people.

In hindsight this should have been a red flag for the Grinch Leak, yet.....


As should the statement about "slowing down reveals" either pre or post Isabelle (don't remember which).