Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Schnee117]

I wonder if this thread will start speculating a Gordon Freeman reveal when we get close to March 23, because this is getting silly.

I'm surprised people haven't suddenly "speculated" a second Sonic character for yesterday.
There's always the 20th of next month and the 20th of every month after

 

[SKX31]

I'm surprised people haven't suddenly "speculated" a second Sonic character for yesterday.
There's always the 20th of next month and the 20th of every month after

*Notes down the 20th of next month, so I can prep my case for Boom Knuckles.*

On a completely different note:

Chinese resellers are continuing to buy overseas stock of Ring Fit Adventure in huge quantities to resell in China where the package is currently selling for over $250.

Global shortages + viral short videos showcasing the game + impact of coronavirus driving up demand. pic.twitter.com/qrLOy9x8hv

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) February 20, 2020

While this has been occuring after FP2 was decided, I still find it notable since the Switch's been doing surprisingly well over there (Nintendo's rough guess was 3 million active accounts).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

*Notes down the 20th of next month, so I can prep my case for Boom Knuckles.*

On a completely different note:

Chinese resellers are continuing to buy overseas stock of Ring Fit Adventure in huge quantities to resell in China where the package is currently selling for over $250.

Global shortages + viral short videos showcasing the game + impact of coronavirus driving up demand. pic.twitter.com/qrLOy9x8hv

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) February 20, 2020

While this has been occuring after FP2 was decided, I still find it notable since the Switch's been doing surprisingly well over there (Nintendo's rough guess was 3 million active accounts).

I see Chinese users taking Smash snapshots on twitter all the time, they just aren't actual residents of China probably. They use a Chinese hashtag for it and the game DOES support the Chinese language

 

[MisterMike]

I wonder if this thread will start speculating a Gordon Freeman reveal when we get close to March 23, because this is getting silly.

Of course they will, this is the Smash community, after all.

 

[3BitSaurus]

While this has been occuring after FP2 was decided, I still find it notable since the Switch's been doing surprisingly well over there (Nintendo's rough guess was 3 million active accounts).

Huh, interesting, is there an estimate for sales so far? The 3 million accounts were part of a sales projection for the next few years, right?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Have we learned nothing from the DMC3 Switch announcement (that wound up being DMC4/5-like Style Switching) being on the same day as the fifth Fighters Pass character announcement?

But surely something will happen this time! It makes a lot of sense when things add up! It's just as reliable as a character appearing in Smash on their anniversary.

 

[Seanapotamus]

But surely something will happen this time! It makes a lot of sense when things add up! It's just as reliable as a character appearing in Smash on their anniversary.

Does anyone else remember last year when some people thought that Steve would be revealed on Minecraft's 10th anniversary, only for Minecraft Earth to be announced on the anniversary instead?

 

[TriggerX]

Then you understood it wrong. No way around it.

Honestly it could be taken either way. No one knows 100%. There’s not enough details of the selection process to even come to that conclusion.

Realistically, Sakurai probably does receive a list of some sort and then makes some picks. Nintendo reviews it again, and they may make additional changes. Nintendo’s picks are probably coordinated with upcoming titles, business relationship goals with other companies, budget constraints, as well as fan demands and what’s popular.

Regardless of what the interview says, I wouldn’t be surprised if Sakurai has his own input for characters as well.

It’s a company, and at the end of the day the only thing I could say holds true is that Nintendo has the final say.

 

[Cosmic77]

TKOWL and I worked together to make this illustration of what I think Zacian's moveset would look like in Smash. I know there aren't many people who want Zacian, but I thought I'd share anyway since I'm really proud of it. At the very least, I hope I can convince people that Zacian would be a cool character.

Smash commission for @Cos77mic of Zacian!

Higher-res gallery: https://t.co/GrSNzBmp6C pic.twitter.com/l9Rbx1wIc8

— Ryan's Art Account (@TKOWL_Art) February 21, 2020

 

[Flyboy]

*Notes down the 20th of next month, so I can prep my case for Boom Knuckles.*

On a completely different note:

Chinese resellers are continuing to buy overseas stock of Ring Fit Adventure in huge quantities to resell in China where the package is currently selling for over $250.

Global shortages + viral short videos showcasing the game + impact of coronavirus driving up demand. pic.twitter.com/qrLOy9x8hv

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) February 20, 2020

While this has been occuring after FP2 was decided, I still find it notable since the Switch's been doing surprisingly well over there (Nintendo's rough guess was 3 million active accounts).

No wonder I had to go to three different stores to find a copy!

Also they should put Ring Fit Adventurer in Smash because she's cute, has genuinely fun moves like wind projectiles and hovering, and the game makes me hurt when it demands I do squats.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I posted this in the rate their chances thread, but I wanted to bring this up again since I felt that Hollow Knight is overlooked.

The thing I find interesting about Hollow Knight is that Team Cherry is getting a lot of clout with Nintendo, they’ve been putting on a pedestal above other indie games.

here was a press release image from the Nintendo Switches launch in China, boasting the support it will get from various game companies. Sandwiched between Square Enix and Ubisoft, some of the most prominent game companies in the world, is the 3 person Team Cherry. The presentation had a whole other slide dedicated to Indie developers and games, but curious enough, Hollow Knight and Team Cherry was with other major developers and their games instead.

This trend also continues in other places, such as this official schedule of 2020 releases.

again, no other indies besides Hollow Knight: Silksong appear in Nintendo’s lineup of games. (Minecraft was indie, but it’s been owned and developed by Microsoft for 6 years.)

I know not everything has to do with Smash, but I also think it’s not too outrageous to believe it’s possible that Team Cherry would already have their foot in the door with Nintendo in negotiations. Nintendo already seems to see Team Cherry as a partner seeing as Hollow Knight’s sequel is a console exclusive on Switch.

The counterpoint I see keep brought up against The Knight is that Shovel Knight, Shantae, sans, and Cuphead are not in a playable character position, therefore The Knight will not be playable either. Do remember that these info characters were negotiated quite awhile ago, I would think the overwhelming positive reception indie inclusions have received in Smash would motivate Nintendo to pursue an indie character with this new pass rather than close the door on it because the character might not be as “big of a deal” as other indies already in non-playable roles.

Also I think some people are underestimating how well Hollow Knight did, by February of 2019 it amounted to 2.8 million sales. That’s more than Shovel Knight’s 2.65 million sales that had a 3 year lead. But even then sales or iconicness are not the be all, end all to character inclusions. Often times it’s simply whose been talking.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I posted this in the rate their chances thread, but I wanted to bring this up again since I felt that Hollow Knight is overlooked.

The thing I find interesting about Hollow Knight is that Team Cherry is getting a lot of clout with Nintendo, they’ve been putting on a pedestal above other indie games.

here was a press release image from the Nintendo Switches launch in China, boasting the support it will get from various game companies. Sandwiched between Square Enix and Ubisoft, some of the most prominent game companies in the world, is the 3 person Team Cherry. The presentation had a whole other slide dedicated to Indie developers and games, but curious enough, Hollow Knight and Team Cherry was with other major developers and their games instead.

This trend also continues in other places, such as this official schedule of 2020 releases.

again, no other indies besides Hollow Knight: Silksong appear in Nintendo’s lineup of games. (Minecraft was indie, but it’s been owned and developed by Microsoft for 6 years.)

I know not everything has to do with Smash, but I also think it’s not too outrageous to believe it’s possible that Team Cherry would already have their foot in the door with Nintendo in negotiations. Nintendo already seems to see Team Cherry as a partner seeing as Hollow Knight’s sequel is a console exclusive on Switch.

The counterpoint I see keep brought up against The Knight is that Shovel Knight, Shantae, sans, and Cuphead are not in a playable character position, therefore The Knight will not be playable either. Do remember that these info characters were negotiated quite awhile ago, I would think the overwhelming positive reception indie inclusions have received in Smash would motivate Nintendo to pursue an indie character with this new pass rather than close the door on it because the character might not be as “big of a deal” as other indies already in non-playable roles.

Also I think some people are underestimating how well Hollow Knight did, by February of 2019 it amounted to 2.8 million sales. That’s more than Shovel Knight’s 2.65 million sales that had a 3 year lead. But even then sales or iconicness are not the be all, end all to character inclusions. Often times it’s simply whose been talking.

Undertale also seemed to be put on a pedestal, it and Deltarune being put into regular directs instead of with the other indies (not sure if Hollow Knight was or not).

 

[Garteam]

The counterpoint I see keep brought up against The Knight is that Shovel Knight, Shantae, sans, and Cuphead are not in a playable character position, therefore The Knight will not be playable either. Do remember that these info characters were negotiated quite awhile ago, I would think the overwhelming positive reception indie inclusions have received in Smash would motivate Nintendo to pursue an indie character with this new pass rather than close the door on it because the character might not be as “big of a deal” as other indies already in non-playable roles.

Couldn't this have the opposite effect, where the massively positive response of Indies in non-playable roles encourages Nintendo to stay the ship and add multiple indies through spirits and mii costume, rather than going all-in on one as a playable character?

 

[N3ON]

I posted this in the rate their chances thread, but I wanted to bring this up again since I felt that Hollow Knight is overlooked.

The thing I find interesting about Hollow Knight is that Team Cherry is getting a lot of clout with Nintendo, they’ve been putting on a pedestal above other indie games.

here was a press release image from the Nintendo Switches launch in China, boasting the support it will get from various game companies. Sandwiched between Square Enix and Ubisoft, some of the most prominent game companies in the world, is the 3 person Team Cherry. The presentation had a whole other slide dedicated to Indie developers and games, but curious enough, Hollow Knight and Team Cherry was with other major developers and their games instead.

This trend also continues in other places, such as this official schedule of 2020 releases.

again, no other indies besides Hollow Knight: Silksong appear in Nintendo’s lineup of games. (Minecraft was indie, but it’s been owned and developed by Microsoft for 6 years.)

I know not everything has to do with Smash, but I also think it’s not too outrageous to believe it’s possible that Team Cherry would already have their foot in the door with Nintendo in negotiations. Nintendo already seems to see Team Cherry as a partner seeing as Hollow Knight’s sequel is a console exclusive on Switch.

The counterpoint I see keep brought up against The Knight is that Shovel Knight, Shantae, sans, and Cuphead are not in a playable character position, therefore The Knight will not be playable either. Do remember that these info characters were negotiated quite awhile ago, I would think the overwhelming positive reception indie inclusions have received in Smash would motivate Nintendo to pursue an indie character with this new pass rather than close the door on it because the character might not be as “big of a deal” as other indies already in non-playable roles.

Also I think some people are underestimating how well Hollow Knight did, by February of 2019 it amounted to 2.8 million sales. That’s more than Shovel Knight’s 2.65 million sales that had a 3 year lead. But even then sales or iconicness are not the be all, end all to character inclusions. Often times it’s simply whose been talking.

Hollow Knight doesn't seem to be a title that exceeds the prestige or success of the other indies which have fallen short of playability, I don't see it bucking the trend. Some sort of acknowledgement within Smash seems totally possible, but it doesn't really stand out above the others to the extent that favourable treatment seems likely.

To your examples, it's not the only indie dev on that list, and it hasn't been the only indie game put on one of Nintendo's timelines - usually they include the most visible indies on there. And as for sales, both Cuphead and Undertale exceed Hollow Knight.

Also, the argument that the other indies were negotiated a while ago doesn't really make sense if you're arguing that Hollow Knight would receive playability. The chronology is a bit off; the characters in the second pass were likely chosen a long time ago, well before we even caught wind of Sans, let alone Cuphead. They're not still negotiating for characters (other than possibly spirit events). Even the Mii costumes are probably already decided.

 

[Dutch Raikuna]

You guys are getting a bit active in the talks.

Anything new in the rumour mill now that the AC Direct is over?

 

[BZL8]

You guys are getting a bit active in the talks.

Anything new in the rumour mill now that the AC Direct is over?

Nothing concrete as of yet. Though based on what Zippo said, there is apparently another direct this month? He said there would be two directs in the month of February (and he specified that one of those directs would be an Animal Crossing direct, which was true). It remains to be seen if he is completely right.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Hollow Knight would be a good deluxe Mii Costume.

 

[ARandomFruit]

I think a knight from castle crashers would be neat as a mii costume.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

TKOWL and I worked together to make this illustration of what I think Zacian's moveset would look like in Smash. I know there aren't many people who want Zacian, but I thought I'd share anyway since I'm really proud of it. At the very least, I hope I can convince people that Zacian would be a cool character.

Spoiler: Media

Smash commission for @Cos77mic of Zacian!

Higher-res gallery: https://t.co/GrSNzBmp6C pic.twitter.com/l9Rbx1wIc8

— Ryan's Art Account (@TKOWL_Art) February 21, 2020

If we were to add Zacian I feel like Zamazenta should be a more prominent part of it since they're always seen together and neither are more important than the other. I'd make them echo fighters of each other that share the same character slot; Zacian would have a better recovery and disjoints, and Zamazenta would be being heavier and have better KO options (or something to that effect).

That being said your art is amazing, and having the two combine their Signature Moves for their Final Smash is a really good idea.

 

[pinshadow]

Nintendo hasn't done a general direct in the second half of the month since 2013, I highly doubt we are getting anything next week.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If we don't get an General Direct next week I'm certain on March.

 

[Hinata]

Nintendo hasn't done a general direct in the second half of the month since 2013, I highly doubt we are getting anything next week.

But the fact that it happened at all means there's a chance! Direct confirmed, baby!

i'm not being serious if it isn't clear

 

[Cosmic77]

If we were to add Zacian I feel like Zamazenta should be a more prominent part of it since they're always seen together and neither are more important than the other. I'd make them echo fighters of each other that share the same character slot; Zacian would have a better recovery and disjoints, and Zamazenta would be being heavier and have better KO options (or something to that effect).

That being said your art is amazing, and having the two combine their Signature Moves for their Final Smash is a really good idea.

I didn't want to force Zamazenta into the moveset too much. Zacian was the focus, and I thought adding Zamazenta in a majority of the moves would actually do more harm to the character than good. As for making them Echoes, I don't know if that's possible. They have a similar build, but Zacian has a sword. I don't think Zamazenta has anything that would work well as a long disjointed hitbox. He's be more of a semi-clone at worst.

I'm glad you liked it though. Took a while before it was ready.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The counterpoint I see keep brought up against The Knight is that Shovel Knight, Shantae, sans, and Cuphead are not in a playable character position, therefore The Knight will not be playable either. Do remember that these info characters were negotiated quite awhile ago, I would think the overwhelming positive reception indie inclusions have received in Smash would motivate Nintendo to pursue an indie character with this new pass rather than close the door on it because the character might not be as “big of a deal” as other indies already in non-playable roles.

Possible counter-counterpoint: The second Fighter's Pass DLC's lineup may have been chosen before the likes of Sans and Cuphead were revealed as Mii Fighter costumes.

I think a knight from castle crashers would be neat as a mii costume.

I agree, though without the artstyle I'm not sure it wouldn't be seen as "generic knight outfit", especially if it gave you one of the standard weapons rather than something silly like broccoli, which wouldn't make sense out of context.

It would definitely be cool as one of if not the only DLC costumes that can be colored (which is rare in the base game anyway).

 

[SNEKeater]

TKOWL and I worked together to make this illustration of what I think Zacian's moveset would look like in Smash. I know there aren't many people who want Zacian, but I thought I'd share anyway since I'm really proud of it. At the very least, I hope I can convince people that Zacian would be a cool character.

Smash commission for @Cos77mic of Zacian!

Higher-res gallery: https://t.co/GrSNzBmp6C pic.twitter.com/l9Rbx1wIc8

— Ryan's Art Account (@TKOWL_Art) February 21, 2020

Great work to the both of you. I really like that concept for Zacian. Looks really cool!
Seeing it reminded me to start Pokémon Sword someday.

 

[SKX31]

Huh, interesting, is there an estimate for sales so far? The 3 million accounts were part of a sales projection for the next few years, right?

The number was from the Q&A session three weeks back (direct link here). There are no direct figures yet - in large part because the majority are imported Switches and much harder to keep track off (because they're grey market). In short, it's a rough guess of how much the Switch has already sold there. Talked about the session here.

I see Chinese users taking Smash snapshots on twitter all the time, they just aren't actual residents of China probably. They use a Chinese hashtag for it and the game DOES support the Chinese language

There could be a couple at least who actually live in China proper. As far as I'm aware VPNs and other tricks are used a lot. It goes the other way too: one of the main Chinese social media accounts I follow actually lives in the US (think I saw Hawaii on said profile once) - but he has a China-connected phone*. That's how he's able to continously post about big stuff like Animal Crossing's Switch model and small notices like "XC Definite Edition just got rated in South Korea" over on the social media account he has.

It's difficult to tell, but either way there is a relatively small but confirmed Smash scene there.

I didn't want to force Zamazenta into the moveset too much. Zacian was the focus, and I thought adding Zamazenta in a majority of the moves would actually do more harm to the character than good. As for making them Echoes, I don't know if that's possible. They have a similar build, but Zacian has a sword. I don't think Zamazenta has anything that would work well as a long disjointed hitbox. He's be more of a semi-clone at worst.

I'm glad you liked it though. Took a while before it was ready.

That's why I'm challenging you to create a more unique Zamazenta moveset.

Just gotta watch out so that shield bashers don't become the new anime swordsmen.

obviously. Great work!

*(Logins are completely phone-based over there, either via phone number or QR code)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I didn't want to force Zamazenta into the moveset too much. Zacian was the focus, and I thought adding Zamazenta in a majority of the moves would actually do more harm to the character than good.

I agree. Trying to have some weird Ice Climbers or assist type of character would just make the character unfocused.

As for making them Echoes, I don't know if that's possible. They have a similar build, but Zacian has a sword. I don't think Zamazenta has anything that would work well as a long disjointed hitbox. He's be more of a semi-clone at worst.

Thinking more on it it does seem more feasible for the characters to have a more Isabelle to Villager relationship than a Chrom to Roy one in terms of moveset.

One thing's for certain though. Their battle theme remix would be a bop.

 

[Dinoman96]

Nintendo hasn't done a general direct in the second half of the month since 2013, I highly doubt we are getting anything next week.

To be fair, they did just mess with people by announcing the Animal Crossing Direct so much later in the day than usual.

 

[Dukemon102]

A Nintendo Direct has to happen next week or Zippo's credibility will vanish (And starving Nintendo fans will eat themselves).

Are people still calling the Knight "Hollow Knight"? Wake me up when everyone starts calling Young Zelda and Dark Metroid by their correct names.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Are people still calling the Knight "Hollow Knight"? Wake me up when everyone starts calling Young Zelda and Dark Metroid by their correct names.

It's almost as if Hollow Knight doesn't have a fraction of the fanbase that Zelda and Metroid do and that causes few people to be familiar with the specifics of the game!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I doubt that Zippo will actually be ruled out if there’s no Direct.

Once a “leaker”, always a leaker according to this fanbase. If there’s even a possibility of there being information from an anonymous poster on the internet, folks seem to flock to it. It’s not even so much of, “Why should I like this character?” but more of, “This character isn’t happening because a leaker hasn’t said so”.

Regardless, a Direct for more general purposes would be quite nice.

 

[Hinata]

I doubt that Zippo will actually be ruled out if there’s no Direct.

Once a “leaker”, always a leaker according to this fanbase. If there’s even a possibility of there being information from an anonymous poster on the internet, folks seem to flock to it. It’s not even so much of, “Why should I like this character?” but more of, “This character isn’t happening because a leaker hasn’t said so”.

It hurts cause it's true.

 

[Dukemon102]

It's almost as if Hollow Knight doesn't have a fraction of the fanbase that Zelda and Metroid do and that causes few people to be familiar with the specifics of the game!

Non-Hollow Knight player detected /s

I actually want him to get some Mii Costume, Spirit, playability, anything in Smash. So everyone will stop calling him Hollow Knight. On the other hand... the detector of non-Hollow Knight players will get weaker.
Or maybe it's just my personal problem of getting irritated when everyone in the internet keeps getting a character name wrong.

 

[DarthEnderX]

He's just called "The Knight" right? Is there also a Hollow Knight in Hollow Knight that's a separate thing?

 

[Kokiden]

*Crossing fingers for Amaterasu/Okami 2 game*

Not counting my chickens before they hatch though.

That would be pretty nice. Okami was such a charming game.

One of the few games where I was interesting in getting merch before I even got the game.

The Okami mugs are unmatched in terms of pure aesthetic.

Have we learned nothing from the DMC3 Switch announcement (that wound up being DMC4/5-like Style Switching) being on the same day as the fifth Fighters Pass character announcement?

I never did say a character pass announcement, so I wasn't implying a character reveal or anything smash related.

I meant more of a general direct. Would be nice if that turns out to be Bayo 3 news. God, we need news for that game already.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Are people still calling the Knight "Hollow Knight"? Wake me up when everyone starts calling Young Zelda and Dark Metroid by their correct names.

Isn't its official name just "Knight" though? I think most people just prefer to say "Hollow Knight" instead of "Knight (Hollow Knight)" all the time since the latter sounds redundant. If this isn't the case than what is its name?

It’s not even so much of, “Why should I like this character?” but more of, “This character isn’t happening because a leaker hasn’t said so”.

This logic is so flawed I can't even begin to air my grievances with it. lol

Really hope it doesn't become too prominent here.

 

[Cosmic77]

Considering how there are still people trampling over each other to reach their computer whenever Sabi makes a post, I doubt people will suddenly stop caring about Zippo.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if people defend him and say the Direct was delayed by a couple of weeks because of the coronavirus, or Nintendo being mad at leakers, or something else that's impossible to prove.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

He's just called "The Knight" right? Is there also a Hollow Knight in Hollow Knight that's a separate thing?

Yes there is a character called the Hollow Knight in the game, but it's not the protagonist.

 

[Goombaic]

Or maybe it's just my personal problem of getting irritated when everyone in the internet keeps getting a character name wrong.

It's that. No one who hasn't played the game will care about Hollow Knight/The Knight/Little Ghost's name and it can be argued that it can be called Hollow Knight anyway so let's put that topic to rest as it's really dumb to keep on going with it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The Okami mugs are unmatched in terms of pure aesthetic.

Mugs? *looks it up* I dunno about tha-OH MY GOODNESS!!!

I must hide these designs from my mother. We have too many mugs as it is.

It's that. No one who hasn't played the game will care about Hollow Knight/The Knight/Little Ghost's name and it can be argued that it can be called Hollow Knight anyway so let's put that topic to rest as it's really dumb to keep on going with it.

We could try calling him Bug Knight to give the little guy a more distinctive name that isn't shared by another character to my knowledge.