ArikadoSD
the cream of the crop
Fthrow at ledge, jump to followup, bait airdodge, bouncing fish, kills light characters from 90% in my experience, though it was probably with rage. its not a bad mixup.
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- Thread starter saviorslegacy
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Ralph Cecil
Smash Champion
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I know i'm saying if they just take the fair which won't kill then there's no risk of dying lol. Why risk dying when if you just take the hit you're taking 5% at worst and NOT dying. A lot of people haven't learned this about Sheik and it's helping her out a lot.
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ShinRamen
Smash Cadet
Yeah, same thing with the vanish trap. People airdodge because they're scared of the upair, but just jumping away beats both. At super high percents i like to needle camp and kill even with f tilt, it's lame as hell but works. I do my best to land a set up like falling nair to bf before it gets to that point tho. Bair is a fairly strong kill move but I like using RAR bairs to combo so much (because it can keep the pressure on unlike bf), and end up staling it hard.
Also hi guys haha, I've been lurking for a while but finally decided to make an account. Nice to meet you all :D
Also hi guys haha, I've been lurking for a while but finally decided to make an account. Nice to meet you all :D
ArikadoSD
the cream of the crop
Yeah I realize, and it's still a win-win if its an fthrow off the stage, because if they do get hit by either fair or bouncing fish they'd be at a disadvantage. It's nice I guess
Welcome, we always enjoy new faces. And we all love to help as long as you don't ask things others have already asked. :D And yeah my bair is usually on the counter at least 3-4 times. So I rarely get kills with it unless fresh stock or near ledge.
Ralph Cecil
Smash Champion
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I'd take a disadvantage where the other guy needs a read to do anything noteworthy afterwards than risk a stock.
WondrousMoose
Mind the antlers
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Howdy! Always nice to see new Sheiks.
iAft3rbang
Smash Cadet
Hey I'm wondering... I sometimes stand by the ledge and vanish away. I was wondering, since vanish'ing horizontally has ending lag and up and diagonally has almost none ... what is the best option... Horizontally with ending lag OR diagonally + falling time .... What is less laggy ?
Wasserwipf
Smash Apprentice
Actually, it's exactly the same. I measured (counted it frame by frame to be precise) and both take exactly 94 frames until you can move again. It takes Longer however to go straight up, aand there are certain ways of shortening it actually, that utilize platforms and stuff, I need to test that further. For FD tho and as an overall fact, as stated, it doesn't matter. Just do what you think will be less punished, as both ways take the same time.
What you can try is grab the ledge, or simply vanish glide as an edge guard, those two can help alot...
ArikadoSD
the cream of the crop
Fthrow to Fair - standard, I think you and everyone else should know this lol. Repeat Fair as many times as you can, go for a reset when you can't get them any more. Sometimes they can lead to another grab at lower percents (and I mean really low)
Fthrow to Bouncing Fish - this thread explains it. Make a note that this combo can be done at higher percents like 80-90% if you do a quick short hop after you do fthrow, but most of the time it will not work with rage. Even if you're at 100% and opponent at 0%, a lot of the time fthrow won't connect with bouncing fish because you're at rage.
Fthrow to RAR - watch this video, it's shown at 0:11. basically, fthrow and then quickly turn around and do bair instead of the normal fair, it does more damage and can work as a mixup. RAR is short for Reverse Aerial Rush. That video also shows you falling fair to bouncing fish, falling nair to bouncing fish, and falling bair to bouncing fish.
Weak nair to Bouncing Fish - this thread explains it. It an be a bit harder to pull off, but it can be useful.
I think I covered most of the bread & butter combos, for some more advanced ones and in general for Sheik techs, check this thread.
Hope I helped!
I do 1 and 2 already, thanks for those other combos!
ArikadoSD
the cream of the crop
Some more combos I forgot:
Ftilt to Uair - this is really good and can actually work as a kill setup, although I'm not exactly sure when it can kill and when it works and when it doesn't, it's been something I've wanted to look into for a while now.
Dthrow to Uair - standard stuff I'm sure you know about this but I'm just laying it out anyway lol, it's good as a mixup and gives free damage.
Wasserwipf
Smash Apprentice
Are we talking combos or strings? Well i go through strings from the top of my head.
F-throw->Fair/RAR Bair/Uair (that works depending on their DI. Sometimes it actually makes the "chaingrab" easier...)/ Bouncing Fish/ Airdodgepunish-Vanish
D-throw->Uair/Fair (if they DI away and don't have too high %)/Short BF (yes we are crazy)/Airdodgepunish-Vanish/Bair if you're good
Ftilt->Ftilt/ Fair/ RAR Bair/ HH Needles (can work I guess)/Uair or possible condition an airdodge and punish the laggy landing with stuff / grab
(Weak) Nair->BF (high%)/Dtilt (not true but shield pressure and spacing and stuff) /grab / If you push them off a ledge jab lock (or in sheiks case weak Nair/Bair lock...)
Dtilt->Fair/ Needles/ Uair (from a tipper, kill%, combo) / grab
Utilt->...hope they mess up theitr reactiuon (what they usually do cause no one expects you to hit with an up tilt, usually i hit with the second hit and can follow up with pretty much anything...)
Fair->Fair (obviously...) / BF (low%)/ RAR Bair (ey, stylin?(I still want to make the Bair-plane a thing...)) / Uair/ Regrab (low%)/ Utilt/ Ftilt (swan...)
Jab-combo-ledge-cancel->Nair (true) / Fair (pretty solid... do a nair, best option...)
Airneedles -> Bouncing fish
Fsmash-> Bouncing Fish (My personal favourite, not guaranteed but can work if they mess up. Only low% tho.)
And since I'm the gif guy, here's the Bair lock and Fsmahs-BF follow up. Everything except BF is guaranteed off of that first hit...
I already know those too,...
ok ok ok ok ok
What's with th ok's?
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HAHAHA
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Please refrain from double posting, please use the edit button in the future.
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Wasserwipf
Everytime I read something of yours I learn something new man, did not know we could use bair to jab reset like that... I thought it was too strong even weak. I also didn't know about f-smash>bf at low percents... I assume they just have to di to get out? Thanks for the toys~
I'll add a favorite not-true combo of mine, f-throw>empty sh>tipper U-smash
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Wasserwipf
Everytime I read something of yours I learn something new man, did not know we could use bair to jab reset like that... I thought it was too strong even weak. I also didn't know about f-smash>bf at low percents... I assume they just have to di to get out? Thanks for the toys~I'll add a favorite not-true combo of mine, f-throw>empty sh>tipper U-smash
ArikadoSD
the cream of the crop
I've actually been using fsmash to bf for a loooooong time but always thought it was never a true combo and people just don't see it coming.. LOL
Bair jab locking is interesting though...
Bair jab locking is interesting though...
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O1DsLeNdYwHiTe
Smash Apprentice
I've found that D-tilt -> sliding U-smash is fairly effective at certain percentages. It catches the tipper of the move and everything.
I know it was already mentioned, but the air-dodge reading vanish is incredible. It's probably one of favored kill options, and a majority of the time your opponent isn't going to see it coming as long as you condition them with uairs before utilizing it.
I know it was already mentioned, but the air-dodge reading vanish is incredible. It's probably one of favored kill options, and a majority of the time your opponent isn't going to see it coming as long as you condition them with uairs before utilizing it.
iLLEST
Smash Apprentice
Do your best to hit them as they try to recover.. if you jump off too early, you can DJ nair back up, or you can FH DJ bair, if they line up with needles, hit em real quick then attempt a BF. One of my favorite ways is to BF off ledge and catch them with the 2nd hit. Really depends on percent and matchup. I vanish glide a good amount too. Grenade every now and then.
Ok.
fyrus221
Smash Rookie
Hey gang,
Any in depth tips on how to stop being read by my opponent?! this seems to be my biggest problem. No matter what I try, a good player just sees everything coming.
Any in depth tips on how to stop being read by my opponent?! this seems to be my biggest problem. No matter what I try, a good player just sees everything coming.
-Stop rolling so much
-don't use the same moves/combos over and over again
-learn THE ENTIRE repertoire of sheiks abilities, (if your opponent is expecting you to shfair, you should tomahawk)
-learn to play chess lol (i'm joking, but kinda not)
and even then, if you're fighting a good player, they may have just seen multiple fighters using the same fashion of combos you are and have prepared for it, which means you just have to put in more time to figure out how to trip these people up(which will come with time)
-don't use the same moves/combos over and over again
-learn THE ENTIRE repertoire of sheiks abilities, (if your opponent is expecting you to shfair, you should tomahawk)
-learn to play chess lol (i'm joking, but kinda not)
and even then, if you're fighting a good player, they may have just seen multiple fighters using the same fashion of combos you are and have prepared for it, which means you just have to put in more time to figure out how to trip these people up(which will come with time)
Also, break your habits and learn how to not always do what your gut tells you... This is the hardest tip to follow through with, but almost everyone has habits that good players can pick up on. Also try and read other players more as this will give you insight into how it works so you can not fall prey to it.
Can someone please help me? There are two characters specifically I've had trouble with in this game. And none of them are Diddy. These are Sheik and Sonic. It's maybe like 1% of the time that I win against a Sheik or Sonic player online, unless they're complete noobs.
Anyways, over to my point. I'm taking my latest match against Sheik as an example. I used first DK a few matches, then Ganon a few matches, then Dr. Mario a few matches, and after 10+ matches of losing, I just put the game down before I started to really rage x) I have problems with Sheik. I could barely touch him.
If I tried to attack on the ground, he would block and grab and start his Fair chain. Otherwise, he would short hop back and fourth with Fairs, Bairs and Nairs. And since they're pretty much lagless, I couldn't block and punish it, on the few tried where he hit my shield, he would grab me first because of his lagless areals. If I attacked from the air, he would wait and block and punish with grab. If I attacked on the ground, he would either short hop Fairs or block and grab. He is so fast, I couldn't touch him. In the end, I tried to just run towards him then roll back all the time. We basically didn't get anywhere. So.. how the heck do I beat Sheik? Or, even touch him at all? I'm sorry, but to me, Diddy is nothing compared to Sheik and Sonic.
Anyways, over to my point. I'm taking my latest match against Sheik as an example. I used first DK a few matches, then Ganon a few matches, then Dr. Mario a few matches, and after 10+ matches of losing, I just put the game down before I started to really rage x) I have problems with Sheik. I could barely touch him.
If I tried to attack on the ground, he would block and grab and start his Fair chain. Otherwise, he would short hop back and fourth with Fairs, Bairs and Nairs. And since they're pretty much lagless, I couldn't block and punish it, on the few tried where he hit my shield, he would grab me first because of his lagless areals. If I attacked from the air, he would wait and block and punish with grab. If I attacked on the ground, he would either short hop Fairs or block and grab. He is so fast, I couldn't touch him. In the end, I tried to just run towards him then roll back all the time. We basically didn't get anywhere. So.. how the heck do I beat Sheik? Or, even touch him at all? I'm sorry, but to me, Diddy is nothing compared to Sheik and Sonic.
WondrousMoose
Mind the antlers
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Sheik is a woman.
To your question, Sheik does incredibly well against the fat characters that you're using. Your first step would be to pick up a lighter, faster secondary, and from there, different characters will have their own matchup threads on how to best handle her.
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ShinRamen
Smash Cadet
Yeah, usually I'm against using different characters just for specific matchups, but heavies against Sheik is pretty much a lost cause, unless you have the most godlike reads constantly. Understand that getting even one hit in as DK or Ganon can be a scary thing for the Sheik player, and you might be able to capitalise off that - the single advantage you have in the matchup is the ability to kill MUCH earlier. But yes, a good Sheik should basically never lose to a DK or Ganon.
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Whats your worst matchup this time around?
ArikadoSD
the cream of the crop
I still say it's Yoshi and Lucario.
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Yoshi really? As Yoshi main I feel like you're our worst matchup.
Jaxas
Smash Champion
The Kirby boards seem quite convinced that they have a solid (possibly advantageous) MU against us (only ever fought 1 Kirby so I can't speak to it, it was annoying though), and Jiggs is a pain as well.
Otherwise probably Lucario, yeah
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I don't have too many problems with kirbs or jigs, I just throw sh fairs out and unless they air dodge that they are all relatively easy.
lucario's are tricky, I believe there is a sweetspot for killing them though and that is to lure them to a certain part of the map, have them around 110~ and bf them off the side(at least that's what's worked for me)
Sonics are the bane of my life though, rosalinas too but I don't fight nearly as many
I fought 2 diddy's today(won both) and it's like fighting a whole new fighter.
ArikadoSD
the cream of the crop
I dunno, never found Kirby all that threatening, but I can see where they're coming from. Kirby can duck our needles, has ridiculous combos out of dair pressure/fair, is floaty, and hard to gimp. Same goes to Jiggs I guess.
I don't find them necessarily advantageous though.
I must either have a mindblock against Yoshi or people for some reason can't see why Sheik would struggle against him :v frame 3 nair, solid projectile, /kinda/ floaty and has weird movement/momentum with fair and stuff, and it has ridiculous damage and KO potential. Super armour on the 2nd jump is also incredibly annoying.
iAft3rbang
Smash Cadet
After watching Mr.R gameplay I'm wondering how he is able to input a jump (or an attack) after a ''single jump --> BF'' . I'm trying to do the same, but it seems like after a ''single jump --> BF'' I don't have enough time before hitting the floor... This is probably stupid, but is there a way to make the BF high enough to do this? (please don't judge me)
Here's the link : https://youtu.be/XjtzWXMeF1s?t=7m51s
Here's the link : https://youtu.be/XjtzWXMeF1s?t=7m51s
I don't care for Yoshi either, for someone who hits as hard as he does, he has some extremely quick moves to peel people off him.
Does anyone know the hit box on Fair btw? I keep getting punished when I try to shfair someone that's shielding(they immediately shield grab me)
also, would the following scenario work?
little mac is standing next to a ledge awaiting an approach, if I come in close for an attack he will shield and then immediately do his quickest jab beating out both my attack or grab, would ff -> vanish work the moment he drops his shield to attack and avoid the damage(not sure if it has invincibility frames or if they'd be out in time) and land a hit?
also, would the following scenario work?
little mac is standing next to a ledge awaiting an approach, if I come in close for an attack he will shield and then immediately do his quickest jab beating out both my attack or grab, would ff -> vanish work the moment he drops his shield to attack and avoid the damage(not sure if it has invincibility frames or if they'd be out in time) and land a hit?
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